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Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal

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Clockwork5

Clockwork5

Member
kirblar said:
No, the US stays the fuck out of it publicly until there's a victor. This is how diplomacy works- you do more harm than good publicly picking a side because it completely fucks with the internal politics of the other country.
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Again, there are a thousand textbook diplomatic statements which would express the White House's intent to "stay the fuck out of it publicly until there's a victor".

"We urge all parties in Turkey to support the democratically elected government of Turkey." is not one of them. This is a statement which intends to "completely fuck with the internal politics of the other country"

Side note-you should clean up your language. Quoting you is making me feel less intelligent.
 
C

Chakan

Member
Phantast2k said:
@CNNTURK_ENG
#BREAKING Turkish President Erdoğan speaks live, calls U.S to hand over Fethullah Gulen to if U.S is strategic ally

That certainly feeds into conspiracy theories about a fake coup.
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This, and this, are certainly worrying news

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-incirlik-idUSKCN0ZW0SZ

Turkish authorities deny movement on and off Incirlik air base: U.S. consulate

The U.S. consulate in Turkey said on Saturday the authorities were denying movements onto and off Incirlik air base near Adana following an attempted military coup overnight.

The U.S. military uses Incirlik to conduct air strikes against Islamic State militants in neighboring Syria. In an emergency message for U.S. citizens, the consulate also said power supplies to the base had been cut.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Oersted said:
Is there are scenario that doesn't spell worse for the Kurds?
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The more successful Erdogan feels the less bad it is for the Kurds. People forget, but typically the political faction most opposed to the Kurds were the Kemalists, because they followed Ataturk's ideals of nationalism and heavily pushed Turkification policies. The religious parties like Refah and eventually the pseudo-religious party that is the AKP always cared less about the issue, because Kurds are Muslim and that was more important than the fact they are Kurds. A lot of more conservative Kurds vote(d) quite fervently for the AKP, especially those that blamed the PKK for the Kurdish situation. Erdogan's early years actually saw him make perhaps the greatest steps towards a more peaceful situation for the Kurds since Ozil in the early 1990s. However, after the AKP appeared to be losing popularity, he began stirring up trouble again because it is electorally popular with lots of voters including non-AKP ones - it was arguably the factor that won the AKP their latest majority.

So if the coup redoubles his popularity, in the short-term that might be a good(ish) things for the Kurds insofar as he's much more likely to leave them alone.

In the long-term, there is no real good ending for the Kurds regardless.
 
A

aliengmr

Member
kirblar said:
No, the US stays the fuck out of it publicly until there's a victor. This is how diplomacy works- you do more harm than good publicly picking a side because it completely fucks with the internal politics of the other country.
Click to expand...

Saying "Democratically Elected Government" was picking a side. A military coup is the opposite of that.

Erdogan wasn't specifically mentioned because it would sound like we were supporting a single person.

Doesn't mean the US is fond of Erdogan or that we are blind to the issues, just that we fall squarely on the side of "maintaining the stability of one of our key allies in the region."
 
S

Sioen

Member
Chakan said:
This, and this, are certainly worrying news

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-incirlik-idUSKCN0ZW0SZ

Turkish authorities deny movement on and off Incirlik air base: U.S. consulate

The U.S. consulate in Turkey said on Saturday the authorities were denying movements onto and off Incirlik air base near Adana following an attempted military coup overnight.

The U.S. military uses Incirlik to conduct air strikes against Islamic State militants in neighboring Syria. In an emergency message for U.S. citizens, the consulate also said power supplies to the base had been cut.
Click to expand...

I can't believe he is holding them hostage, he is a dictator but he is smart.
 
R

Rubenov

Member
Tecnniqe said:
Sooo they are holding 1500 service men and women hostage until they get Gulen?
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Us being there is a mistake. Such a tense "ally" relationship. We need to GTFO of Turkey after this is over and take our nukes. I no longer consider that country an ally.
 
F

fanboi

Banned
Why would Erdogan try this at the US? I mean this could be one thing that fucks him over? Or is it to boolster nationalism even more?
 
cripterion

cripterion

Member
Chakan said:
Something called "nuclear weapons sharing" from NATO.

Turkey and other countries (Belgium, Germany, etc) have some US nukes, but can't arm them without codes from the US Dept. of Defense.
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Are they using Denuvo to protect those nukes?

Anyways this thing was very heated yesterday and I'm surprised that GAF was faster than even our own news channels (I heard about the coup here), although they're kinda busy with what happened in Nice.
 
T

Tecnniqe

Banned
Rubenov said:
Us being there is a mistake. Such a tense "ally" relationship. We need to GTFO of Turkey after this is over and take our nukes. I no longer consider that country an ally.
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Yeah. Get the nukes out and the soldiers. They've gone to the point of holding their own allies soldiers hostages.

Remove them from NATO while at it. This is insane.
 
K

kirblar

Member
aliengmr said:
Saying "Democratically Elected Government" was picking a side. A military coup is the opposite of that.

Erdogan wasn't specifically mentioned because it would sound like we were supporting a single person.

Doesn't mean the US is fond of Erdogan or that we are blind to the issues, just that we fall squarely on the side of "maintaining the stability of one of our key allies in the region."
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If people think the statement means that we were always publicly supporting the winning side, I guess it's doing it's job.

lol @ the "language" response. Swear words make you less intelligent? lol
 
K

KDR_11k

Member
Rektash said:
Just for reference there aren't only US soldiers at Incirlik.There are about 250 german Bundeswehr soldiers there as well and they can't get in or out either at the moment.
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I hope they pull those ASAP, I have no idea why we're even there when those troops are only flying recon over Syria. I'm sure the US and France have enough of their own recon and don't need our stupid token gesture. After the Turkish govt prevented our officials from visiting our troops those troops should've been withdrawn ASAP.
 
O

oti

Banned
fanboi said:
Why would Erdogan try this at the US? I mean this could be one thing that fucks him over? Or is it to boolster nationalism even more?
Click to expand...

His #1 priority now is to display power and control. If Obama abides, he wins. If Obama says no, he wins again. He's already relying on the "us against them" narrative that will be needed for the years to come since tourism will crash even more.
 
L

luckygodzilla

Member
sflufan said:
Actually, it's a Turkish airbase that NATO uses for operations, so the Turkish government can do whatever the hell it wants with it.
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Thanks for clarifying, but even with Edrogen riding high off the failed coup, immediately going out and antagonizing the us like this is borderline nonsensical when they have already expressed support for the regime.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Phantast2k said:
Some killings / shootings may have been in panic, like this one: https://mobile.twitter.com/bm21_grad/status/754091281060683776/video/1 (not gory, but probably nsfw)

But in other instances the military has shown gross disregard for their compatriots.
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That is true. But the vast majority of the ground troops weren't shooting at civilians, we have video evidence of that. Plus, if there was a concentrated effort by the coup planners to slaughter civilians, 1500 troops wouldn't have resulted in only 47 civilian deaths. The air force and the tank crew were responsible for the majority of the deaths.
 
M

mAcOdIn

Member
fanboi said:
Why would Erdogan try this at the US? I mean this could be one thing that fucks him over? Or is it to boolster nationalism even more?
Click to expand...

I think Turkey has more leverage over us than we have over them.

First off, asking for extradition isn't that uncommon, we asked the UK to extradite a hacker that wasn't a US citizen so asking for someone back who's in exile's not that extreme.

Second, as much as Erdogan sucks, if they can provide evidence that he was behind the attempted coup it actually would be the right thing to do.

Third, I believe the US probably has a higher interest in Turkey helping keep migrants out of Europe and destabilizing the region more along with keeping Turkey in our sphere of influence is probably greater than Turkey's fear of being kicked out of NATO or whatever else we could do to them.

Maybe Turkey doesn't get him back but at this point Turkey's just in NATO and our pals out of convenience now, nobody likes him. If we legit didn't need Turkey more than they needed us they'd be gone by now is the way I see it. So it can't really hurt his position to ask!
 
R

Rubenov

Member
MacBosse said:
Holy shit if that is true.

Erdogan playing with FIRE.
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Not really since Obama won't do shit. We should've cut back ties with Turkey after their support for ISIS came to light.

We've valued the NATO relationship with Turkey above everything else. I expect to see that position become untenable.
 
T

trembli0s

Member
Lmao, I remember people in this thread saying leaving Turkey and kicking them out of NATO was extreme.

This guy is Putin without the rational calculating coolness. Last thing we need is nukes in his country.
 
A

aliengmr

Member
kirblar said:
If people think the statement means that we were always publicly supporting the winning side, I guess it's doing it's job.

lol @ the "language" response
Click to expand...

The President's advisors apprised him of the most recent developments on the ground, and the President reiterated the United States' unwavering support for the democratically-elected, civilian Government of Turkey.
Click to expand...

That isn't what is happening here. If the coup succeeded, we would have dealt with the situation, but it would not have been the preferred outcome.

How many "democratically elected governments" were in Turkey at the time of the coup?
 
G

GasProblem

Member
Hmm, reading it again, I think they are seperate statements. Didnt they close of Incirlik because they suspect that coup jets got their fuel there? I suspect them to arrest some soldiers, then open the base again. No way they're holding 1500 service people there in exchange for Gulen.
 
S

sflufan

Banned
Regarding Incirlik, here is the official Pentagon statement:

"The Turkish government has closed its airspace to military aircraft, and as a result air operations at Incirlik Air Base have been halted at this time. US officials are working with the Turks to resume air operations there as soon as possible. In the meantime, US Central Command is adjusting flight operations in the counter-ISIL campaign to minimize any effects on the campaign. US facilities at Incirlik are operating on internal power sources and a loss of commercial power to the base has not affected base operations."
 
T

Tecnniqe

Banned
mAcOdIn said:
I think Turkey has more leverage over us than we have over them.

First off, asking for extradition isn't that uncommon, we asked the UK to extradite a hacker that wasn't a US citizen so asking for someone back who's in exile's not that extreme.

Second, as much as Erdogan sucks, if they can provide evidence that he was behind the attempted coup it actually would be the right thing to do.

Third, I believe the US probably has a higher interest in Turkey helping keep migrants out of Europe and destabilizing the region more along with keeping Turkey in our sphere of influence is probably greater than Turkey's fear of being kicked out of NATO or whatever else we could do to them.

Maybe Turkey doesn't get him back but at this point Turkey's just in NATO and our pals out of convenience now, nobody likes him. If we legit didn't need Turkey more than they needed us they'd be gone by now is the way I see it. So it can't really hurt his position to ask!
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Well if NATO cut ties, like it really should right about now, then Russia would hve the option to steamroll them. It's likely to happen but when you disregard your own allies and their soldier like this and use them as leverage for one person you think is responsible for anything it proves you are not fit for a defense alliance.
 
M

Markoman

Member
Serious question: why didn't the EU do a refugee-deal with Greece? Greece getting the 6 billion Euros Turkey asked + a part of the national debt paid off. Sounds better than doing business with a backyard thug, who shortly after the deal has been sealed started bullying the fuck out of everyone.
 
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