More likely is that he had a shit list and now he has the political capital to act with impunity.
Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal
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More likely is that he had a shit list and now he has the political capital to act with impunity.
does Erdogan have enough support from the public to willy-nilly remove judges from their positions, arrest whoever he deems a threat and push through any reforms that help him fulfill his Putin-esque ambitions? iirc the AKP holds an absolut majority in the parliament, is there actually anyone left to oppose him?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The AKP only just has a majority; the last election resulted in a hung parliament but Erdogan started making tough noises about the Kurds so votes swung away from the MHP (nationalist party) to the AKP and so the AKP took a majority. It's not really that there's nobody to oppose the AKP, it's that the other three parties (MHP, CHP, and HDP) all hate each other as much as they hate the AKP and so won't work together. Besides, the MHP are probably worse than Erdogan.
The subtitles in this video has got like almost nothing to do with what he is saying most of the time.
harriet the spy
Member
You presented unsubstantiated statement, a terrible analogy, and sentences so unintelligible it's unclear what you were trying to say.
NyMartin90
Member
Thanks I've been learning Turkish and couldn't really match the words myself good confirmation
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
I wouldn't doubt it for a second that Erdogan would be ready to use popular support to put pressure on the US, to the point where he may threaten to arrest US forces in the country, or just push the people to do it themselves such as at embassies.
He would gain even more support by "standing up" to the US, especially throughout the middle east. The US won't want to risk another Iran-US embassy hostage situation.
He would gain even more support by "standing up" to the US, especially throughout the middle east. The US won't want to risk another Iran-US embassy hostage situation.
Turkey has a rather big mouth for some that was allegedly trying to fight a Coup just 24 hours ago.
ah right, thanks for reminding me. What I'm wondering is, when Erdogan puts forward his plans for a super-presidency, what could realistically be done to prevent it? The AKP holds half the seats in the parliament, and half the population voted for him (for various reasons) in the last election. And now, just one day after the failed coup, he's dismantling the judicial system seemingly without any resistance. From far away, it looks like the public and opposition is powerless to stop him from doing whatever he puts into his mind
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Kerry has chosen his words carefully when talking about extraditing Gulen, and especially when talking about the 'democratically elected government'. It's pretty much setting the US an out on supporting Turkey if it ever comes to Erdogan taking control...
Ether_Snake
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Especially the part about the constitution, which almost all other leaders have mentioned as well. I think that word was more important than the democratic part. They expect him to change the constitution and catch him on that.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think about half of Turkey doesn't mind/actively approves, which is sort of the problem.
Yeah, he's probably moving forward faster with plans he already had in place.
Yep, never gonna make fun of Episode III's Sidious plot again. Not that I think that Erdogin set this up, but he sure as hell was ready to take advantage of it and people love him for it.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
"I am the Democracy" -Erdogan
PodcastFips
Member
I think all this will end like your usual saturday night hangover party. It's great the moment it takes place and you feel like you are the greatest (here: supporting your president in defending the military coup), but next morning you wake up feeling like you were hit by a truck.
People will start to understand what kind of bullshit Erdogan is trying to pull off, but by that time it could already be too late and there will be an even bigger bloodbath than the coup could have ever been.
People will start to understand what kind of bullshit Erdogan is trying to pull off, but by that time it could already be too late and there will be an even bigger bloodbath than the coup could have ever been.
The second paragraph is especially how I think. 5/10 years from now people will be looking and saying "what the fuck happened, how did we not see/stop this?"
what about the bullshit he has been pulling off?
Too many to list, but here's the most egregious one off the top of my head http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5021/turkey-shoe-box-corruption
Here are some links as well: http://journal-neo.org/2015/09/21/has-turkey-become-a-fascist-state/
oh, i was just pointing out that this being the straw that breaks the camels back seems a bit too hopeful considering the camel is probably crushed by now
Oh yeah, I agree. The camel is long dead. The question is how much longer can they prop up its corpse before anyone else notices.
RustyNails
Member
Is he a pissant little shitbag or a brilliant master politician who successfully enacted a fake coup attempt that no other leader in history attempted in order to make demands? He can't be both.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
A pissant shitbag is an apt descriptor for a worthless, vile human being.
Which Erdogan is, and which obviously doesn't mean he couldn't have enacted a fake coup.
I'm not exactly sure what your point is anyhow, since I've been stating that it wasn't a fake coup, but probably a manipulated/rushed one.
GuessMyUserName
Member
.... huh? How are those mutually exclusive?
Not even saying that he did stage it, but he can be a piece of shit AND an evil mastermind
I know everything on the internet devolves to Hitler comparisons but it's crazy to see the similarities in their rise to power in real time. Especially if this was a fake coup (or even if not, but Erdogan knew ahead of time). It's like, I've read this stuff in history books but nowadays with instant communication and mobile phones everywhere, you see it as it happens.
I don't really buy staged. To me the most likely 'alternative' scenario is that Erdogan found out that plotters were planning a coup, and after preparing somewhat decided to force their hand before they were ready by essentially making it known not long ago that he would be purging the military of these people. It would explain at least why the coup felt so rushed and poorly planned.
MisterFalcon
Member
I think the coup organizers thought they culd do what Sisi did in Egypt. But Sisi did not have to deal with a large, well organized and heavily armed paramilitary police that was loyal to the sitting government. Unlike Morsi, Erdogan had been creating a counter to Army power for years.
Their tactics also came straight out of the 1980's when taking the national broadcast station and telephone exchange were enough to control the flow of information.
Their tactics also came straight out of the 1980's when taking the national broadcast station and telephone exchange were enough to control the flow of information.
Bitch Pudding
Member
"Commence the "cleansing"!
But seriously. This coup is the best thing ever for Erdogan. He'll get rid of his enemies within the State bodies of all three centres of power (i.e. legislative, executive and judiciary). Every single one of them. Encluding those he thinks are not 100% loyal to him or may turn out to be a threat in the future.
And he'll get the cheers from the Turks all over the world nevertheless. Until it's too late and they realize, that their vote isn't needed anymore, not because therere will be no elections, but no one else to choose from in the first place.
That tends to be my best guess as far as any kind of conspiracy is concerned. I could see him forcing the issue, was prepared, and maybe even tipped off ahead of time by informants/spies. Or he could have just had a game plan in place for a likely scenario. Any way you cut it, he was well prepared to move against his enemies/rivals in rapid fashion.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Ha ha. Oh, the irony. It's like a Classical Roman Drama.
I wonder what the rest of the non-pro-Erdogan military is thinking right now..
Also possible that he had the secret service put false "go" signals into communication to trigger a premature launch by some of the forces who opposed him.
An outright threat like that would be an act of war and would authorize the US to use force against Turkey (I think if one NATO member threatens another like this it wouldn't trigger the defense clause if that other member launched an attack?). Beyond the US forcefully extracting their troops there'd be a strong push to penalize Turkey in any non-military way possible, especially with a trading embargo. That would be pretty devastating for the country's wellbeing.
PeskyToaster
Member
By who's count has America killed the most innocent people?
What about massive bombing campaigns in Germany in WWII? Often more devastating than the atomic bombs, targeting a western nation, filled with white people.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Oh yeah, the brilliant master politician who got caught with his pants down back in 2013. The brilliant master politician who had to eventually apologize to Putin after much dick waving. Such brilliancy, much politician.
MMaRsu
Member
Sure why not?? Its not like the turks care about a free state
Portuguese media also commenting on the possibility of the coup being staged as an excuse to Erdogan increase his powers. John Kerry whole declaration about Gulen extradition is very different than what we thought by yesterday. USA will consider any Turkey request and invites Turkey to present strong and verifiable evidences of Gulen participation in this coup.
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Any news from the frigate that coupist took over yesterday?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think it is highly, strongly unlikely the coup was staged and much of GAF is jumping the gun. There's just too many ways something that complex can go wrong; you need to have absolute confidence that all of the people you persuaded to do this aren't going to blab in sufficient numbers. This seems unlikely when you're openly talking about the death penalty for them. If I were one of the people who had instigated the coup, what have I got out of this? Why have I gone along with Erdogan's plan?
More likely is that Erdogan simply knew something along these lines was about to happen, announced the removal of key figures from the military to force them to act now rather than later, consequently had the upper hand against a very disorganized coup, and is now using that as cover for current events.
More likely is that Erdogan simply knew something along these lines was about to happen, announced the removal of key figures from the military to force them to act now rather than later, consequently had the upper hand against a very disorganized coup, and is now using that as cover for current events.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I'm inclined to believe he just accelerated existing plans in the face of the coup, rather than featuring the coup as part of it. Instead of retiring and swapping out obstacles in the military and judicial system for yes men slowly over time, he's now able to do it instantly. But it would have got done either way.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
The whole puppet show that is going on right now in Turkey is pathetic. Staged or not the AKP is milking it for what it is worth and their supporters being the brainless sheeps they are just standing in line and shout meeehh in unison. The celebration last night was disgusting after we lost 160 persons in the attack 24 hours earlier. Fuckin banana republic!
AKP on track of making their own brown shirt groups.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Someone manipulating a bad situation to their advantage makes them a skilled politician, it doesn't mean they planned that bad situation from the start.
False flag claims always stretch logic to its very limits. In this case, like 9/11 or the moon landing, it would be a conspiracy that depends on thousands of people never speaking out. No one but an omnipotent comic book villain could pull that off.
Did he know it was going to happen? Did he let it happen? Did he have a plan in place to counter it while reaping the benefits of the chaos? All likely. But the soldiers who took part in the coup were not his actors.
False flag claims always stretch logic to its very limits. In this case, like 9/11 or the moon landing, it would be a conspiracy that depends on thousands of people never speaking out. No one but an omnipotent comic book villain could pull that off.
Did he know it was going to happen? Did he let it happen? Did he have a plan in place to counter it while reaping the benefits of the chaos? All likely. But the soldiers who took part in the coup were not his actors.
i think no one who is calling it staged actually believe that. At least as far as i have seen. Staged is just the wrong word but the meaning behind it for most seem to be exactly what you said in your last paragraph.
I'm having a real hard time attributing "skilled politician" to Erdogan. However, demagogue. fear mongering, manipulative politician fits the bill.
That dude is set to change Turkey forever while maintaining a giant fan crowd. If that's not skillfull (regarding his goals) I don't know what is.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I believe in this logic.
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