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[CrunchyB]

In all honesty what almost certainly happened is he knew there was murmurs around, and either him or them accellerated it to what happened.

Erdogan was planning to purge some high ranking officers real soon, so presumably the window was about to close. That's one reasonable explanation for this small and undercooked coup.

It's also possible, but this is pure speculation, that some people (secretly in Erdogan's pocket) egged the rebels along and made false promises. As long as the majority of the army remained untainted there was minimal risk.

BTW, was that story about the downed helicopter containing the mysterious coup leaders ever confirmed? That smelled like some grade-A bullshit right from the start.

 

[cackhyena]

Where did Obama stand on all this? Was he backing the coup?

 

[Tecnniqe]

...
People support this ass?

To the point they take to the streets to fight tanks with sticks.

 

[Sax1031]

sadly i don't know much about internal Turkey politics.

people are apparently upset with the situation.

Erdogan should not use this failed coup as a power grab.

 

[Oersted]

Threadtitle should be updated.

Over 6000 have been already arrested.

Where did Obama stand on all this? Was he backing the coup?

Backing the democratically elected leader Erdogan(TM), not the coup.

 

[Jackpot]

Reasons the coup may be staged:

- There were only about a thousand coupists, a few tanks and planes out of a military that has some 315,000 troops. Erdogan already had more than 10,000 police officers just for the Gezi protests, so any commanding officer should have known it would fail beforehand
- The list included high ranking officers that could have easily commanded 10,000s more.
- Apparently no plan to apprehend Erdogan or the PM.
- Coup started Friday night at 2200, when young men were awake and rowdy, whereas all the previous coups took place long past midnight.
- The whole business where civilians could apparently take an airport from the military and secure it so that Erdogan could gloriously return.
- ??

OR the coup plotters were incompetent and in over their heads and lived in a bubble where they thought the rest of the army would follow them in a fit of patriotic fervor if they took the plunge.

It's scary how quickly people invent a whole false-flag narrative. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there a single bit of evidence showing pro-Erdogan forces assisting, goading, or enabling coup forces? Erdogan gloating over crushing opponents and exploiting the situation is not that.

Truther-style conspiracies only makes you look stupid. Soldiers facing a baying mob and the death penalty claim they knew nothing? Inconceivable!

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Where did Obama stand on all this? Was he backing the coup?

Obama issued a statement supporting "the democratically elected government of Turkey" three hours after the start of the coup, when it was clear that the coup was failing.

Then Turkey's Minister of Labor accused the US of being behind the coup. Then John Kerry issued a statement saying these claims are "utterly false".

 

[cackhyena]

Well Republicans are gonna love that.

 

[Violet_0]

Yeah, nukes in hostage. Was it just a coincidence that US had to stop the anti-Daesh missions because of Turkish airspace? Erdogan = pro-daesh? Looks like that now.

This shit is getting boiling hot.

if Turkey were to threaten the nuclear reserves in the country controlled by the US, I'm pretty sure the NATO would mobilize and have troops on the ground within hours

 

[ironcreed]

Erdogan: "This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army."

Cleanse, huh? Jesus.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I'm pretty sure Turkey have no way to use the nukes. They may have physical access to them but the US are the ones with knowledge of the code for arming the bombs.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Erdogan: "This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army."

Holy moly. It's really happened.

Where did Obama stand on all this? Was he backing the coup?

Openly backed the "democratically elected leader" like most world leaders.

The only reason that gets a pass is that the statements of most leaders were coming when it was clear that the coup was in the process of fizzling out. So, whatever. Politics.

 

[Silent Chief]

Soldiers facing a baying mob and the death penalty claim they knew nothing? Inconceivable!

I don't know what army you've been in, but soldiers are told what to do and are not supposed to ask why. I was only in the army for 13 months and I could write a book on all the times I was told to go somewhere and they were nobody at the place that knew why I was there. Heck, once I was sent directly by a colonel to a building to get some supplies that were needed immediately and the captain at the supply shop told me they were closed for the next 3 days.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Threadtitle should be updated.

Over 6000 have been already arrested.




Backing the democratically elected leader Erdogan(TM), not the coup.

Finnish prime minister is also backing up this prick. Because "democracy".

 

[Rebel Leader]

OR the coup plotters were incompetent and in over their heads and lived in a bubble where they thought the rest of the army would follow them in a fit of patriotic fervor if they took the plunge.

It's scary how quickly people invent a whole false-flag narrative. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there a single bit of evidence showing pro-Erdogan forces assisting, goading, or enabling coup forces? Erdogan gloating over crushing opponents and exploiting the situation is not that.

Truther-style conspiracies only makes you look stupid. Soldiers facing a baying mob and the death penalty claim they knew nothing? Inconceivable!

Not so inconcieveable

Turkey coup: Soldiers say they were 'not aware they were part of coup attempt'

They said commanders told them they were taking part in military manoeuvres

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...aware-part-of-overthrow-attempt-a7140611.html

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Not so inconcieveable

Those poor bastards that got beaten to death for doing what they were told

 

[spekkeh]

OR the coup plotters were incompetent and in over their heads and lived in a bubble where they thought the rest of the army would follow them in a fit of patriotic fervor if they took the plunge.

It's scary how quickly people invent a whole false-flag narrative. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there a single bit of evidence showing pro-Erdogan forces assisting, goading, or enabling coup forces? Erdogan gloating over crushing opponents and exploiting the situation is not that.

Truther-style conspiracies only makes you look stupid. Soldiers facing a baying mob and the death penalty claim they knew nothing? Inconceivable!

Well yes lots of evidence. Also not the first time Erdogan may have invented a plot to be able to get rid of his opponents (see Ergenekon). He was at least awfully quick to react, being able to detain all his high ranking plotters, even the military ones. Your assumptions that the coupists somehow didn't study previous coups even though Turkey has a history of them and that the soldiers are lying are also just that: assumptions.

At this point I would put the odds Government was taken by surprise, Government was aware of the plot, Government helped in the plot at 2:49:49 respectively.

 

[spekkeh]

I'm pretty sure Turkey have no way to use the nukes. They may have physical access to them but the US are the ones with knowledge of the code for arming the bombs.

Yes this. Also, they would have absolutely no use for nukes, so we can stop talking about this like it means anything.

 

[sflufan]

The recent flurry of fence-mending diplomatic activity by Turkey also comes under a new light now.

Just in the last several weeks, Turkey has sought to improve relations with the following antagonists: Russia, Israel, Egypt, and even the Assad regime in Syria which Turkey has been the most vocal about seeing overthrown. This is an incredible amount of diplomatic about-faces in a very short period of time.

What better way to guarantee that any impending internal "discord" doesn't receive international support than to make the existing regime appear to be a viable partner in regional stability? It also ensures that any lingering international "loose ends" are tied up before a turn inward to deal with domestic "issues".

This is just another factor to consider as to whether the Erdogan regime had some inkling that this "mutiny" was a strong possibility and therefore sought to speed up the timetable of its inevitably inept execution.

 

[oti]

Well yeah, there it is. Hitler v2.0.

NATO, what up?

What do you expect NATO to do exactly? NATO is just NATO.

 

[Frustrated_me]

I'm completely disfranchised by what happened in turkey, really don't ever want to go back. Hearing people change "allah Akbar" in small towns all night would feel like some witch hunt.

Here is a video calling for jihad from a mosque on the night of the coup: https://youtu.be/VX_urmkM7AU

Here is the celebrations video: https://twitter.com/Homogenic__/status/754449849286848512

Welcome to the Islamic republic of Turkey.

All you AKP supporting nutjobs destroyed what was once a shining beacon of secularism in the middle east.

 

[Regginator]

There's a difference between hoping someone gets life in prison and calling for their beheading.

If you have ever hope of becoming a modern civilization you know which one to pick.

Would it be ok to ask for beheadings of those Erdogan supporters who killed soldiers who had not killed anyone before? Or to call for the death of Erdogan because his actions led to the death of more civilians than there were in this coup? I have significant doubts, and I don't think that's a necessary desire in a civilized society.

I personally wouldn't go as far as asking for beheadings, but I do immensely hope that the citizens who mutilated, tortured and killed the soldiers get punished accordingly as well (just like the soldiers who killed civilians should be severely punished). Especially if a portion of the soldiers in question didn't shoot or mistreated the civilians in anyway.

It seems a significant part of them didn't even know a coup was being planned, but luckily it seems a big part of the Turkish civilians were being relatively rational (as far as you can expect during a coup) and merely detained the soldiers instead of bashing in their skulls (which unfortunately we've seen a few footages from).

 

[Corto]

OR the coup plotters were incompetent and in over their heads and lived in a bubble where they thought the rest of the army would follow them in a fit of patriotic fervor if they took the plunge.

It's scary how quickly people invent a whole false-flag narrative. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there a single bit of evidence showing pro-Erdogan forces assisting, goading, or enabling coup forces? Erdogan gloating over crushing opponents and exploiting the situation is not that.

Truther-style conspiracies only makes you look stupid. Soldiers facing a baying mob and the death penalty claim they knew nothing? Inconceivable!

How many soldiers comprised the coup forces? Why didn't the government loyal forces confront them instead of unarmed people? We know tanks, helicopter and F16 were involved. How many? Who was/were the heads of the coup? How a coup is organized without any political support behind it? No matter how desperate potential plotters would be by rumors of army purges they wouldn't try a coup with zero probability to succeed and strengthen Erdogan's rule in the country. They could be forced to act on false claims of support by higher ups that then backed out.

 

[Nere]

Come on military manoeuvres inside the cities? Who can be that naive to believe that.

 

[sflufan]

Come on military manoeuvres inside the cities? Who can be that naive to believe that.

If you're a 19 year old conscript from some backwoods part of Anatolia, you're going to believe whatever the hell your commanding officer tells you.

 

[Durante]

Erdogan: "This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army."

"Es gibt jetzt kein Erbarmen; wer sich uns in den Weg stellt, wird niedergemacht."

 

[PtM]

Looks like the coup initially was to go down later at night, but the secret service got intel which escalated and messed up their plans.
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/putsch-tuerkei-analyse-101.html

 

[spekkeh]

Looks like the coup initially was to go down later at night, but the secret service got intel which escalated and messed up their plans.
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/putsch-tuerkei-analyse-101.html

I guess that would explain some of it. However, the secret service knew about the plot in the afternoon, yet Erdogan remained in Marmaris, also sounds strange.

 

[Corto]

1000 soldiers, 10 tanks, 2 helicopters and six jet planes.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Come on military manoeuvres inside the cities? Who can be that naive to believe that.

If you're a 19 year old conscript from some backwoods part of Anatolia, you're going to believe whatever the hell your commanding officer tells you.

Basically that

If you didn't follow the order and it was real, what do you think would happened?
You'll be tried for insubordination

 

[oti]

I guess that would explain some of it. However, the secret service knew about the plot in the afternoon, yet Erdogan remained in Marmaris, also sounds strange.

Sounds to me like he played his cards and won. He was willing to sacrifice lives to get his dream of the New Turkey and succeeded.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Come on military manoeuvres inside the cities? Who can be that naive to believe that.

I don't want to be too quick to judge, obviously the soldiers have an incentive to lie, however, when I lived in Berlin during the time of the Berlin Wall it wasn't unusual for me to see tanks rolling down the streets. Turkey also has not been the safest country in the world at the moment. I have absolutely no idea how common or uncommon it would be to take military equipment into a city over there and I don't want to be too fast to ascribe my concept of normal in 2016 to theirs.

 

[norinrad]

What do you expect NATO to do exactly? NATO is just NATO.

Not much actually, they were setup to only deal with Russia, making them useless at everything else. Erdogan will succeed at making Turkey an Islamic republic and the EU cannot do a damn thing.

Hey Erdo, stop or we will put sanctions on your country, lol okay. Here more refugees for you cunts.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

What do you expect NATO to do exactly? NATO is just NATO.

NATO won't do shit, no matter what.

Turkey is located at the very border to the middle east, so it's geological position is utmost important to the US and European countries. Erdogan has to do A LOT before he oversteps the mark. He can even get away with claiming the US (!!!) were somehow involved in this coup, as they give Gollum, sorry, Gülen shelter.

So, as long as Erdogan is somehow "useful" to the rest of the civilized world and the US, like in not letting Syrian refugees ship over to Greece or give NATO forces an airbase so that they can attack ISIS, he will be fine.

 

[| Praxis |]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=210174327#post210174327

His wishes come true.

The dumb shit I have been banned for...

 

[oti]

Not much actually, they were setup to only deal with Russia, making them useless at everything else. Erdogan will succeed at making Turkey an Islamic republic and the EU cannot do a damn thing.

Hey Erdo, stop or we will put sanctions on your country, lol okay. Here more refugees for you cunts.

Outsiders can only do one thing now, tell Erdogan he has to respect democracy. Merkel already said the coupists have the right for a fair democratic trial. Obviously not happening. But that's all she and other leaders can do now.

 

[Yamauchi]

Well yeah, there it is. Hitler v2.0.

NATO, what up?

Not much they or the EU can do now. They incubated this monster.

 

[Tacitus_]

What do you expect NATO to do exactly? NATO is just NATO.

They could try to expel Turkey from NATO, but Turkeys location probably outweighs this mess.

 

[Rebel Leader]

They could try to expel Turkey from NATO, but Turkeys location probably outweighs this mess.

not only that but it then could into that meme of shaking hands and their old friend crossed out

 

[JDB]

Still crazy how many Turkish people support Erdogan, especially the ones living in other countries. Hope they'll be pleased with what they're getting themselves into.

 

[oti]

They could try to expel Turkey from NATO, but Turkeys location probably outweighs this mess.

That's not in NATO's interest. As long as Erdogan plays ball they will stay in NATO forever. What I could see is Germany withdrawing its troops from the base, use harsher language criticizing Erdogan. Stuff like that.

 

[norinrad]

Outsiders can only do one thing now, tell Erdogan he has to respect democracy. Merkel already said the coupists have the right for a fair democratic trial. Obviously not happening. But that's all she and other leaders can do now.

Whatever happens this is a Turkish internal affair and outsiders do not have much to say except the standard protocol used by all democratically elected governments. All that crap about human rights and fair trial nonsense that comes out of their mouths though this is just how democracy works. It's a good thing but also a trap and everyone must abide by the rules. I understand Merkel's position.

 

[Jaleel]

Greece has returned the Turkish helicopter hijacked by coup soldiers which landed in Alexandroupolis.

A reported timeline of the failed coup attempt:

July 15

10 p.m. - Shots are heard inside the General Staff headquarters in Ankara and a helicopter fires at people on the ground. Soldiers take control of state broadcaster TRT and the General Staff headquarters in Ankara as troops and tanks block the Bosphorus and Fatih Sultan Mehmet bridges linking Asia and Europe in Istanbul.

11:24 p.m. - An explosion is heard at the police special operations center in Gölbaşı, south of Ankara.

11:30 p.m. - Prime Minister Binali Yıldırım announces an “attempt to stage a coup” was happening during a live TV broadcast.

11:30 p.m. - Chief of General Staff Gen. Hulusi Akar is taken hostage by pro-coup soldiers.

July 16

12:05 a.m. - Security sources tell Anadolu Agency the coup attempt was being staged by officers with alleged links to U.S.-based Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen, who is accused of leading a terrorist organization.

12:11 a.m. - President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan leaves Marmaris, in Turkey’s southwest, for Atatürk International Airport in Istanbul.

12:13 a.m. - A TRT news anchor is forced to read a declaration from coup leaders, who had named themselves the “Peace at Home Committee,” claiming to have taken control of the country. Erdoğan later addresses the country on CNN Türk via a mobile telephone, urging people to “take to the streets” to resist the coup and defend democracy.

12:35 a.m. - The first investigation into the coup is launched by a prosecutor in Istanbul.

1 a.m. - The Ankara police headquarters is attacked by jets and helicopters.

1:39 a.m. - The first arrests of pro-coup soldiers are made.

2:20 a.m. - The Gölbaşı Police Special Forces Department headquarters is bombed by a pro-coup aircraft, killing 17 police officers and two personnel from satellite operator Turksat.

2:30 a.m. – A total of 13 soldiers, including three senior officers, are held while attempting to enter the Presidential Palace in Ankara. A spokesman for the National Intelligence Agency (MİT) says the coup has been “thwarted.”

2:42 a.m. – 2:49 a.m. - The Turkish parliament is targeted by jets and helicopters. More than 10 are injured in the bombing.

3 a.m. - TRT resumes broadcasting.

3:20 a.m. - Erdoğan lands in Istanbul.

3:23 a.m. – A military helicopter carrying two captains and 12 soldiers lands in the parking lot of the Doğan Media Center in Istanbul and enters the daily Hürriyet building adjacent to the Doğan TV Center. Soldiers forcefully take everyone out and intervene in CNN Türk broadcasts.

4 a.m. – The Ankara Chief Public Prosecutor’s Office orders the arrests of members of the coup leadership.

4:42 a.m. - Helicopters open fire on the hotel in Marmaris where Erdoğan had been staying. Five police are injured in a firefight with troops.

5:10 a.m. – Police detain the soldiers who entered the Doğan Media Center building, as employees return to the building.

5:20 a.m. - Yıldırım tweets that 130 soldiers had been arrested and a rebel general had been killed.

6:52 a.m. - 1st Army Commander Gen. Ümit Dündar is appointed as acting chief of staff in Gen. Akar’s absence.

7:35 a.m. - More than 750 military personnel are held over coup allegations.

8:32 a.m. - Gen. Akar is rescued from pro-coup forces.

9:40 a.m. - 200 soldiers surrender to police in Ankara.

9:46 a.m. - Treason charges are laid against retired Air Force Commander Gen. Akın Öztürk and Lt. Gen. Metin İyidil, commander of the Land Forces Training and Doctrine Command.

9:58 a.m. - Judicial recess is cancelled.

10:37 a.m. - Yıldırım announces that Gen. Akar is back on-duty.

11:27 a.m. - Coup forces at General Staff headquarters ask to negotiate surrender. Three prosecutors later receive the surrender of the troops.

12:57 p.m. - Yıldırım announces that 161 people had been killed and 1,440 had been injured during the coup attempt and more than 2,800 military personnel involved in the “vile attempt” had been arrested.

2:37 p.m. - 2,745 judges are suspended over alleged links to the coup attempt. A detention order is issued for all of them later in the day.

5:00 p.m. – The Turkish parliament holds an extraordinary session, where ruling and opposition party leaders address lawmakers. A joint anti-coup declaration signed by all four parties in parliament is read out.

8:02 p.m. - An operation at Akıncı Air Base northwest of Ankara, which had served as the coup headquarters and where the top generals were held hostage, ends.

 

[spekkeh]

NATO is a defense organization that has had dictators among its ranks before (Greek junta, a number of coups in Turkey). This means nothing for whether Turkey stays or leaves NATO. If anything their shooting down of the Russian plane might have been reason for suspension, but it clearly wasn't. They'd have to really fuck up with Incerlik, but Erdogan is not a moron.

 

[oti]

Greece has returned the Turkish helicopter hijacked by coup soldiers which landed in Alexandroupolis.

A reported timeline of the failed coup attempt:

Greece wants nothing to do with this mess but in the end it could turn out to be a brilliant idea to get to Greece in the first place for those coupists. They have a Greek lawyer and whatever happens to them everyone will know about it. Thousands of people will just disappear but they won't.

 

[moniker]

Calling Erdoğan "democratically elected" is a fucking a joke. This was a coup attempt against a coup. Not to mention the reports of massive election fraud in the last election.

 

[teacupcopter]

If you're a 19 year old conscript from some backwoods part of Anatolia, you're going to believe whatever the hell your commanding officer tells you.

Even if they knew it was a coup, as long as it wasn't firing on civilians/war crimes, the whole just following orders things comes into play. Especially in a country like turkey which has had a history of coups.

If your CO says "participate in this coup", you're fucked either way unless you can magically predict what is going to happen. Support it and the coup fails, you're gone. Go against it and the coup suceeds, you're gone. Try and be neutral? You're abandoning your post. What choice did they have?

Just making it clear- this is for the ones who didn't fire on civilians.

 

[warthog]

The dumb shit I have been banned for...

Wow, indeed seriously messed up.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Not much they or the EU can do now. They incubated this monster.

Agreed. Unless they communicate to him in no uncertain terms that he has gone too far and he needs to take a step back, he's going to become a guaranteed problem down the line.

 

[MacBosse]

At what point does "democraticly elected" start to sound hollow? When the elected ban many forms of free speech? Jails journalists? Denies genocidies? The list could go on forever I guess.