Dynamite Shikoku
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He doesn't need qualified people, he just needs his supporters to go out and intimidate everyone
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Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal
- Thread starter nynt9
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He doesn't need qualified people, he just needs his supporters to go out and intimidate everyone
OK, this is getting ridiculous. The coup in itself was bad enough, but Erdogan is either seriously paranoid now or just flat out crazy. Purging 6000 from the judicial system, 8000 from the police, almost every single battalion commander in the country either arrested or relieved of their post, relaxing gun laws to allow every citizen in the country access to a firearm despite the country already unstable enough after the coup, the shagging prime minister even talking about reviewing their relationship with the US, despite the fact they've in a coalition with them since the 50s? This would be a farce if the end result wasn't so bloody catastrophic as it looks like it's panning out to be.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The last thing a dictatorship needs is qualified people.
great time to do this
Jezbollah
Member
Yep. This failed coup has given him an excuse to turn this "democracy" into a pseudo dictatorship.
I am glad that German media and the government is calling Erdogan out on his shit. I'm really glad they for once show some balls.
Welp....
Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 24m24 minutes ago
BREAKING: Close to 1,500 staff at the 'Ministry of Finance’ dismissed
EDIT: Also this:
Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 50s51 seconds ago
BREAKING: Kerry warns #Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy - @washingtonpost
Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 24m24 minutes ago
BREAKING: Close to 1,500 staff at the 'Ministry of Finance’ dismissed
EDIT: Also this:
Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 50s51 seconds ago
BREAKING: Kerry warns #Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy - @washingtonpost
That's somehow true. But it always ends up in disaster one way or another.
This is getting ridiculous. Maybe Turkey has a big underspend in the unemployment funds for this year?
Regginator
Member
I don't think the German government has said anything about this coup, except maybe for the usual "respect the current democratically elected government", like the US and basically all relevant EU countries.
The media doesn't speak for the government and vice versa, but if you have a source I'd gladly read it.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Have reasons surfaced why all the judges were fired? And who has the right to fire judges at will? Surely, the president can't just do whatever the fuck he wants in Turkey?
Lmao
I'm struggling to connect the dots here.
Police officers, judges and now the finance sector.
What do any of these have to do with the military coup?
Is losing those 10,000+ highly skilled workers worth the purge?
Right, because the last successful military coup in 1980 was so nice. Neither side is inviting.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Their parliament removing their own immunity from prosecution back in May - check.
Their civil and constitutional courts decimated - check.
Their police force been decimated since last elections (maybe even earlier, correct me if wrong), perhaps finally neutered today - check.
Their military (aka the final line of constitutional defense) neutered - check.
But guys, at least they still got to keep our nukes!
The EU media should not just be calling Erdogan out, they should be writing potential scenarios for dealing with an Islamist dictatorship at EU's doorsteps.
None that we know of. In fact, the twitter profile I used in the last few posts on this thread even quoted someone from the German government saying that Turkey were unusually ready in having an arrest list prepared in such a short space of time.
EDIT: Actually it was the EU comissioner handling Turkey's membership bid Johannes Hahn:
Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 3h3 hours ago
Turkish government seemed to have list of arrests prepared: EU's Hahn - Reuters
In a scam democracy, he can.
Randomizer123454444
Member
I think the connecting dots go something along lines of "have different opinions than / opposes Erdogan".
Also I don't Erdogan cares about skilled workers at the moment, what matters to him is faith and loyalty. Nothing else is needed, it seems.
You may not have noticed the media suppression etc. that has been going on in Turkey in recent years. This isn't something that happened overnight, this has been in planning for a long time.
When you look at the world in dismay and ask yourself "How did we get here?", the answer is always "step by step".
In a real democracy with separation of powers and all he shouldn't. Maybe he has some puppet in the judicial system?
Power over finance ministry = power over the budget.
When you're no longer president but the de facto dictator, you can do whatever you want.
KurtSloane
Banned
Admittedly I have an outside and relatively fresh perspective on this whole thing but as far as I understand the situation: Reprisal for the soldiers actions, especially the death penalty, is a complete betrayal of the ideals that Turkey was founded upon. Erdogan is beyond the pale at this point.
Agreed.
This is something Turkey's own citizens and NATO allies need to address; some diplomatic pressure should be the extent of any external influence, whereas internally, the citizens need to hold their government accountable for serious transgressions against their own constitution.
The last thing an Islamist like Erdogan (and others in the ME) needs is more ammo for anti-Western propaganda, should an intervention be initiated.
"Beyond the pale" would've been him consolidating power and keeping the army on a leash. What he's doing now is completely past the pale, onto a boat in cork and halfway across the North Atlantic. That's how far gone past the point of reason it is.
The usual "We must respect the current democratically elected government" was a couple of days ago, now they are openly criticizing him and the government spokesman just told Turkey that there will be no more EU accession talks if the death penalty is reinstalled:
http://www.welt.de/politik/article157124814/Bundesregierung-erklaert-Todesstrafe-in-Tuerkei-zur-roten-Linie.html
Senior SPD, CDU and CSU politicians are also denouncing him of violating the rule of law:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/spd-fraktionschef-zu-tuerkei-oppermann-wirft-erdogan-angriff-auf-rechtsstaat-vor-a-1103407.html
http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/wirtschaftsticker/kauder-zu-tuerkei-rechtsstaatsverletzungen-anprangern-weiter-reden_id_5738965.html
http://www.idowa.de/inhalt.tuerkei-seehofer-befuerchtet-verstoesse-gegen-rechtsstaatlichkeit.67b714ea-57b6-4141-9a22-eca053b23be9.html
Other German and EU politicians are going as far as saying this was all planned beforehand. Not exactly the Friday coup, but the coup Erdogan is now performing:
http://www.welt.de/politik/article157086934/Listen-fuer-Verhaftungen-waren-offenbar-vorbereitet.html
Popular courts and militias. And they're free! Win-win
Regginator
Member
Thanks, I took a quick Google translation but I think they're specifically talking about the removal and arrest of judges, the potential return of the death penalty, and how it affects their EU bid, etc., and not whether or not Erdogan was behind this coup, because the way Oti Xero's phrased it (the one you quoted), it seemed like it was an official German statement that they accuse Erdogan of being behind it.
edit: I see your edit now, I'll give that link a read as well.
Oh no, I'm sorry. I wasn't clear enough. An article stated that his coup (not the one by part of the military) was close to completion. By his coup they mean the firing of all those people and reshaping of Turkey to his will. I think I saw something along the lines "there's some stuff we don't know about this military coup yet" but they haven't said that Erdogan was behind it.
Herbspiceguy
Member
Some news reports from a Turkish correspondent on Dutch radio just now:
Increasing amount of armed pro Erdogan goon squads sighted. Ongoing witchhunt on anyone who's suspected of supporting Gülen. Very threatening presence. People who have no affiliation with Gülen feel threatened as well.
Reports of increasing amount of women being insulted. Sentiment being described as "it's our time now" (like certain Brexiters have been treating foreigners).
In my country they've destroyed the windows of a building where Gülen supporters meet.
Increasing amount of armed pro Erdogan goon squads sighted. Ongoing witchhunt on anyone who's suspected of supporting Gülen. Very threatening presence. People who have no affiliation with Gülen feel threatened as well.
Reports of increasing amount of women being insulted. Sentiment being described as "it's our time now" (like certain Brexiters have been treating foreigners).
In my country they've destroyed the windows of a building where Gülen supporters meet.
I don't know if the comparison with brexiters is right, this seems far worse tbh..
And the brexiters will still be punished by law if caught.
Well according to EU commissioner Johannes Hahn the list of judges that have been suspended as a result of the coup has most likely existed since before the coup.
Take from that what you will... It certainly doesn't shine any positive light on all of this though.
Take from that what you will... It certainly doesn't shine any positive light on all of this though.
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Then Obama should be able to do what ever the hell he wants to, right?
Wait, I never claimed the German government or German media were saying that Erdogan was behind the coup. There is simply no proof (so far) this was the case. There are however some magazines and politicians musing he could have to do something with it...
Oh, I tought you were German or German-speaking, since we were especially speaking about German media. Sorry.
Yep, that was what I meant when I said they are calling him out. Also calling him out on what he is doing now, which is definitely unlawful.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I did not say 'intervention', I said 'dealing with'. Removing NATO's nuclear weapons from there would be a good start.
Regginator
Member
No problem, I thought I'd ask. Thanks for the clear up!
I didn't mean to imply that, I was only trying to get some sources. I'm Dutch, linguistic somewhat similar to German, but I can't understand it allWait, I never claimed the German government or German media were saying that Erdogan was behind the coup. There is simply no proof (so far) this was the case. There are however some magazines and polititians musing he could have to do something with it...
Oh, I tought you were German or German-speaking, since we were especially speaking about German media. Sorry.
Ether_Snake
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So it sounds like the dismissal of the police is to force them to retaliate, to have some chaos. I would guess the idea is to create a new force from the ground up, out of his supporters, and to do that they need to get in a confrontation with an enemy. Otherwise he would have proceeded to get them arrested over time.
I kind of wonder if what the government is saying is even true, or if it's just to force some people out, to see who fights back or runs away.
Also some say the US is pro-Erdogan to use him against Syria and buffer Russia.
I kind of wonder if what the government is saying is even true, or if it's just to force some people out, to see who fights back or runs away.
Also some say the US is pro-Erdogan to use him against Syria and buffer Russia.
Says everything, really.
It won't be. It could be a complete dictatorship and it would remain a member as long as they listen when it comes to what the USA wants.
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