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[Waldini]

Like it or not, Erdogan is what people of Turkey wanted. At this point only a military intervention can change the course and I don't think we as EU have any right to do that. TBH I don't think even a military intervention would help anything except get people killed.

Plenty of leaders criticise Turkey over what they are doing. Best we can do is shut them out of our own society (EU), and be ready to guide them towards something better if they ever want that.

Exactly my point. Excuse me for not making any sense. I'm Dutch and translating the things in my head on "paper" is sometimes ... difficult. Like I've said before, there's nothing anyone is going to do about this situation except stating the obvious.

"We're very sorry for the situation in Turkey"
"The Turkish people elected Erdogan himself, nothing we can do about it".

Turkey emphatically does not want our help, the government is too busy installing a corrupt dictatorship out of their own volition. Also stop with the persecution complex.

Persecution complex? The hell you on about?

 

[Oersted]

No, they don't. True.

I take it that the EU is to cowardly to actually act. As it has been for years. Shit hits the fan all over the world and we (Netherlands) keep bitching about things like zwarte Piet, Sinterklaas ... But noooooo, Turkey is in the middle of a crisis and could use some help in guiding them towards a stable (brighter) future ... and here is the EU ... discussing about nothing.

I'm also worried for how my country is turning out to be. There have been several incidents regarding a certain type of community lately. Hell, they even have decicated Instragram pages for it. But the people who run this country fail to actually call them by name. Instead, they rub it in the Dutch's faces and claim WE are the ones to blame *sigh*.

My kids are growing up in a world which has gone to shit.

Racist caricatures are not getting acceptable trough a regime in Turkey.

Well USA supported so many coups in the past, that it's a usual suspects. I was just adding to your conspiracies.

That is not a good point. And your conspirancies? What?

 

[Keasar]

Question, what exactly is the EU getting out of Turkey since I hear that the EU is very quick to try and please Erdogan when we should outright tell him to fuck off and stop all negotiations with his government?

Even though we're finally doing that saying "Death Penalty? No EU for you!"

 

[superdeluxe]

James Stavridis speaks on Turkey after the Coup:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...-islamic-state-the-big-winner-in-turkish-coup

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Racist caricatures are not getting acceptable trough a regime in Turkey.



That is not a good point. And your conspirancies? What?

Is there proof? No? Then it's a conspiracy until proven real. And yes, it is a good point. You don't think us could do such a thing? Looking at the past they are more than capable. What they have to gain I don't know. I mean what did you have to gain the assisted coups in the past?

 

[AndyD]

Welp....

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 24m24 minutes ago
BREAKING: Close to 1,500 staff at the 'Ministry of Finance’ dismissed

Money is about to start disappearing into secret "projects".

 

[blu]

Money is about to start disappearing into secret "projects".

'Commence operation Shoebox 2'

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Welp....

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 24m24 minutes ago
BREAKING: Close to 1,500 staff at the 'Ministry of Finance’ dismissed

EDIT: Also this:

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 50s51 seconds ago
BREAKING: Kerry warns #Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy - @washingtonpost

YES.

Time to cut them out.

 

[Oersted]

Is there proof? No? Then it's a conspiracy until proven real. And yes, it is a good point. You don't think us could do such a thing? Looking at the past they are more than capable. What they have to gain I don't know. I mean what did you have to gain the assisted coups in the past?

What it are you talking about?

I do not think that.

USA being more than capable was my point lol.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Money is about to start disappearing into secret "projects".

'Commence operation Shoebox 2'

Hail hydra

 

[Theonik]

Question, what exactly is the EU getting out of Turkey since I hear that the EU is very quick to try and please Erdogan when we should outright tell him to fuck off and stop all negotiations with his government?

Even though we're finally doing that saying "Death Penalty? No EU for you!"

There is the migration deal and NATO. Turkey also provides EU countries with inexpensive labour.

With Cameron gone though, a lot of support for Turkey has died in the EU.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Does it, at this point, matter what I propose? Even if I do come up with a brilliant idea ... it'll never happen. Because no matter what someone else says, does or proposses ... we have no "say" over the matter because Turkey is not an EU country nor will it ever become one. The EU, so far, stated that Erdogan was elected by the people themself and that's that. A simple answer.


... what I propose? Well;

Make sure that the people in Turkey are safe. That they are treated equally. That they have the freedom of speech (instead of getting imprisoned whenever they take a pot-shot at Erdogan) and a bright future ahead of them instead of the darkness that is slowly starting over to take over the country. Making sure the country is run by someone who, infact, DOES listen to his people instead of coming across as a goddamn dictator.

I fear for every single Turk living over there. The idiot nearly caused a goddamn war ... divides his people. Yeah, keep it up Erdogan.

No it doesn't matter what you propose short of a military intervention the only options left to the EU are: Dealing with the devil because they feel they have to, all the while critiquing his human rights violations and amassing of powers.
Shunning him and his country and hoping against hope he won't try to fuck them over and or seek allies they're already having issues with.

Turkey remains a sovereign nation and Erdogan has a however slight majority of the population on his side, there's really not much to do right now.

 

[hobblygobbly]

Erdogan.

Chosen by the people of Turkey;
- Wants to reinstate the "death-penalty" after making sure 6000+ have been arrested.
- Locked up Dutch reported (Ebru Umar) after she gave her opinion, refused to let her leave.
- Erdogan makes sure that everyone who "opposses" him "pays" for the crime.

And .. that should be democracy? This Erdogan is a goddamn dictator and I fear that in Turkey, things are about to get alot worse. As usual, the European Nations are looking away ...


... again, how is this democracy? It's not. This is starting to get closed-and-closed to a dictatorship. Stay safe TurkeyGAF. I wish you all the best in these stressful times.

Yep, also the ongoing "reform" of turning Turkey into a presidential system where the powers lay with the president (Erdogan), right now now the prime minister has had powers taken away that were once its role, Erdogan's close ally who is now the prime minister supports the "reform" to a presidential system.

He is consolidating a lot of power by changing the system. Here's an article about it when the new prime minister was appointed. Guardian: Turkish president consolidates power as he confirms new PM

Erdoğan’s supporters say there is nothing unusual about a presidential system, highlighting how many western countries – such as France and America – have comparable systems. But his critics argue that Erdoğan is seeking to build an autocracy under the guise of democratic norms.

Might as well mention the judiciary reforms as well. Reuters: Turkey's parliament passes law to restructure judiciary, bolstering Erdogan

The above is a common criticism myself and others have said before and in this thread, especially when pro-Erdogan supporters were saying "he was elected democratically!" while ignoring the fact that he hasn't been governing democratically.

And yeah, he jails local journalists too who criticise him, he also shut down/did a takeover of a news agency.

He's building a dictatorship over time and the cult personality is already instilled among many Turks within and outside Turkey.

 

[DudeWithNoName]

If I were Turkish, and was dismissed/fired from a position post coup, I would be out of the country within days. If you are not with him, you are against him and there is no telling when he sends the SS to your door to tie up loose ends.

 

[KingSnake]

If I were Turkish, and was dismissed/fired from a position post coup, I would be out of the country within days. If you are not with him, you are against him and there is no telling when he sends the SS to your door to tie up loose ends.

I was thinking about this. Somebody who was dismissed these days and not arrested yet must live under terror that it can happen any moment now.

 

[Sad Affleck]

What do you propose the EU does?

How about some sanctions?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

How about some sanctions?

Already happening in part if they suspend EU membership talks

 

[Joni]

How about some sanctions?

Europe needs Turkey to guard the Greece-Turkish border.

What if Erdogan organised this coup himself? As a way to "clense" the military of possible Gullen supporters? ... far fetched but anything is possible.

That would be silly. It is to cleanse the entire government of anyone not on his side. He won't limit it to Gullen supporters.

Anyhow, while NATO membership probably won't change that easy, those nukes must go far away from Turkey under current circumstances.

I believe they are guarded by American soldiers. It is actually how it is possible to find out which bases have the nukes.

 

[Baybars]

I think it's very fascinating to see a cross over from the far left and the far right who are all sad that the coup didn't go through. Somehow worried about erdogan while literally backing a genocidal war criminal next door in syria who has killed more arabs in 3 years than the entire arab israeli wars.

 

[Theonik]

Europe needs Turkey to guard the Greece-Turkish border.

It's probably better for the EU in the long run to give Greece money to guard its borders instead of funding autocratic regimes in Turkey and asking that Greece cut its defence budget instead.

Spoiler

A European army would make even more sense but I think this is at this moment in time politically untenable.

e: On the other hand, Greece's sea border is really extensive and is very difficult to properly defend.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

Europe needs Turkey to guard the Greece-Turkish border.

..... or get the Greeks to do it?

 

[Baybars]

Kerry is also claiming

"We will certainly support bringing perpetrators of the coup to justice - but we also caution against a reach that goes well beyond that."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36824045

Also I remember watching this 60 minutes thing on Gulen awhile back, its interesting for those who don't know much about him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJvWP7wBkFs

No one in turkey takes kerry seriously anymore. Remember this is the guy who said he hoped for stablity during the early hours of the coup. Only when he realised the coup was faltering did he decide to back the turkish government.

 

[NyMartin90]

Didn't see this before, this was the attack on the National Intelligence forces during the coup and footage of them defending themselves
https://twitter.com/140journos/status/754994802400301057

 

[Joni]

..... or get the Greeks to do it?

It's probably better for the EU in the long run to give Greece money to guard its borders instead of funding autocratic regimes in Turkey and asking that Greece cut its defence budget instead.

While this would be clearly be somewhat preferable, Europe needs Turkey to actually send people back from Greece to Turkey. Although, it is the question how long that will remain necessary before classifying Syria as 'safe' again.

 

[Frustrated_me]

No one in turkey takes kerry seriously anymore. Remember this is the guy who said he hoped for stablity during the early hours of the coup. Only when he realised the coup was faltering did he decide to back the turkish government.

Who does Turkey take seriously apart from their grand Islamist leader Erdogan?

 

[Baybars]

..... or get the Greeks to do it?

The greeks can't do anything. They are a broken country with a bankrupt economy. Turkey could withdraw from its duties in afghanistan and that in itself would cause the europeans and americans alot of headache.

 

[Baybars]

Who does Turkey take seriously apart from their grand Islamist leader Erdogan?

48 percent of the electorate in turkey voted against the AKP in the last election. So maybe them too?

 

[KingSnake]

No one in turkey takes kerry seriously anymore.

This post reminds me about the Russian plane thread. I guess some apology will follow in assume months. Speaking of leaders that shouldn't be taken serious.

 

[blu]

48 percent of the electorate in turkey voted against the AKP in the last election. So maybe them too?

My sincere empathy goes to those people.

 

[Ether_Snake]

EU needs Turkey to stem the flow of refugees and avoid having their own Turkish population causing trouble/protests, and this is needed to avoid the far right gaining more popularity. The US favors the same since the far right is Russia-aligned. Plus a Turkey under Islamist rule gives a proxy to deal with Syria. The US has been against secularist goverments in the ME and nearby for a while now (Iraq, Lybia, Syria).

Plus Turkey under Erdogan and Islamist rule is a strong buffer against Russia, maybe even a source of trouble for them.

I don't see any reason at all for the US and EU to be against Turkey other than with a bit of rethoric.

 

[YoungFa]

48 percent of the electorate in turkey voted against the AKP in the last election. So maybe them too?

Just wait until the next election. 99% of votes for Erdogan/AKP, at a 100% turnout.

 

[blu]

EU needs Turkey to stem the flow of refugees and avoid having their own Turkish population causing trouble/protests, and this is needed to avoid the far right gaining more popularity. The US favors the same since the far right is Russia-aligned. Plus a Turkey under Islamist rule gives a proxy to deal with Syria. The US has been against secularist goverments in the ME and nearby for a while now (Iraq, Lybia, Syria).

Plus Turkey under Erdogan and Islamist rule is a strong buffer against Russia, maybe even a source of trouble for them.

I don't see any reason at all for the US and EU to be against Turkey other than with a bit of rethoric.

Exactly the line of thinking that got us here in the first place.

 

[Tugatrix]

Just wait until the next election. 99% of votes for Erdogan/AKP, at a 100% turnout.

 

[PtM]

While this would be clearly be somewhat preferable, Europe needs Turkey to actually send people back from Greece to Turkey. Although, it is the question how long that will remain necessary before classifying Syria as 'safe' again.

Syria will never be safe again. If somehow the IS gets purged, the Islamic Republic of Turkey still will keep bombing the Kurds.

Just wait until the next election. 99% of votes for Erdogan/AKP, at a 100% turnout.

And the 1% get arrested for drawing penis pictures on their sheets.

 

[Theonik]

While this would be clearly be somewhat preferable, Europe needs Turkey to actually send people back from Greece to Turkey. Although, it is the question how long that will remain necessary before classifying Syria as 'safe' again.

I see solving the refugee crisis through Turkey to be a double-edged knife. On one hand refugees have seemed to feed into the threat of right wing Eurosceptics on the other hand, the same people don't approve of the Erdogan regime either so this solution hasn't seemed to help much at all. Looking at Brexit developments should have been enough for that. The other problem is that there is a lot of moderates that are against propping up Turkey as well.

 

[Joni]

Syria will never be safe again. If somehow the IS gets purged, the Islamic Republic of Turkey still will keep bombing the Kurds.

There are different gradients, most of which don't include the provision that they need to welcome every Syrian refugee. They'll lower it to one like that.

 

[NyMartin90]

Turkish air force chief Akin Ozturk "confesses" to planning Friday's coup attempt in which some 200 died - state media

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europ...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

 

[Nere]

..... or get the Greeks to do it?

It's probably better for the EU in the long run to give Greece money to guard its borders instead of funding autocratic regimes in Turkey and asking that Greece cut its defence budget instead.

Spoiler

A European army would make even more sense but I think this is at this moment in time politically untenable.

e: On the other hand, Greece's sea border is really extensive and is very difficult to properly defend.

People are giving Greece a hard time for their borders but they seem to miss the point. The land borders in Thrace are well guarded with minefields and a wall nobody goes past it. But the sea borders are impossible to control. There are so many islands and if you check the map some are less than 10 miles away from Turkey. Let's assume a boat full of refugees comes from Turkey, Greek authorities see it and go to it, when the refugees see Greek boats coming close they sink their own boat so they can be rescued. I would like a serious solution to this. What would you have the Greeks do? Not save them? Next day there would be pictures all over the news of how Greeks are murdering children in the Aegean. I would really like if people understood that without Turkey's help of holding people before they get on a boat and travel to a Greek island the guarding of the borders is near impossible. These aren't the normal borders Germany and France has they are different much different.

 

[Arkanius]

Turkish air force chief Akin Ozturk "confesses" to planning Friday's coup attempt in which some 200 died - state media

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europ...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Did they cut his ear?

 

[Baybars]

Just wait until the next election. 99% of votes for Erdogan/AKP, at a 100% turnout.

turkey is not syria's assad

 

[Baybars]

Syria will never be safe again. If somehow the IS gets purged, the Islamic Republic of Turkey still will keep bombing the Kurds.

.

the number one killer of syrians for the last 6 years is the bloke from qardaha not IS

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

Did they cut his ear?

Possibly. They definitely did something to it. But it's okay, Erdogan and his loyal followers are just carrying out the democratic will of their people.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Turkish air force chief Akin Ozturk "confesses" to planning Friday's coup attempt in which some 200 died - state media

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europ...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Seems like the confession came under no duress. Clean prosecution at work.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Seems like the confession came under no duress. Clean prosecution at work.

https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/754943324973305856?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

seems they all got beaten up.

 

[Coriolanus]

Chile is a NATO member now? Where North Atlantic meets South Pacific.

Name means very little, given that they allow landlocked countries to be part of it.

but obv no, chile aint a part of it.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

In other news:

UPDATE: Deputy Mayor of Sisli #Istanbul has passed away after being shot in the head earlier today #Turkey
Source

Also, same source:

Looks like Turkish government is trying to find evidence linking the #US to failed coup.

Gissur Simonarson CN has added:
Conflict News @Conflicts
BREAKING: Police and prosecutors begin search of #İncirlik NATO air base in #Turkey - @CNNTURK_ENG

Expect them to find evidence linking Obama to being a Gulen supporter.

 

[Chittagong]

I don't agree there is nothing the rest of the world can do about Turkey. In order of execution:

1 - Enforce Greek borders
2 - Kick Turkey from NATO
3 - Block Turkish product and people from EU

In reality, NATO and EU will do fuck all, because having a dictatorship and abuse of human rights has never been a problem for us, rather it gets rewarded by a role as the Head of UN Human Rights commitee.

So, in all likelihood, Erdogan will Erdogan

 

[PtM]

the number one killer of syrians for the last 6 years is the bloke from qardaha not IS

Good call.

 

[oti]

German state media questioning legitimacy of "confession".

 

[nynt9]

Well, if anything came from this it's people outside of Turkey realizing exactly how democratic Recep Tayyip "Democracy and Freedom have no value in Turkey" Erdogan. (Yes he actually said that)