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[andythinkpad]

Obviously.

I seriously doubt anything will come of the extradition request.

Gulen is probably not the man behind the coup. Anyway Erdogan wants Gulan because he is a very good MacGuffin target to blame "the West" for Turkey's instability and push forward his purging and theocracy building.

 

[KDR_11k]

Congratulations AKP supporters, you win a lifetime supply of Erdogan.

 

[gamechanger87]

I can't imagine who would want to deal with a new government if they literally blew him out of the sky. I think they could've atleast captured him at the airport and put him on a quick trial and exile.

Imagine the question of legitimacy if they really did kill him, and then his supporters would be even more violent even possibly preempting civil war.

I'm not defending him per say but atleast capturing him and a trial would've been better and more legitimate but this seems a lose-lose situation.

While I don't agree 100% about this being staged, I think given Turkey's history, past threats to Erdogan's power and the context of changing the military staff over the past year, there's still possibility it was a last ditch effort that was unorganized.

Erdogan has been expecting a coup for a long time and he's been prepared.

This coup was to give him full power to clip the wings of the military. He had essentially hit a wall and had been planning this for awhile. Nothing like having soldiers just miss you at multiple locations and you have a dramatic escape to validate that you were threatened.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

I can't imagine who would want to deal with a new government if they literally blew him out of the sky. I think they could've atleast captured him at the airport and put him on a quick trial and exile.

Imagine the question of legitimacy if they really did kill him, and then his supporters would be even more violent even possibly preempting civil war.

I'm not defending him per say but atleast capturing him and a trial would've been better and more legitimate but this seems a lose-lose situation.

While I don't agree 100% about this being staged, I think given Turkey's history, past threats to Erdogan's power and the context of changing the military staff over the past year, there's still possibility it was a last ditch effort that was unorganized.

Erdogan has been expecting a coup for a long time and he's been prepared.

For the coupist personally, killing Erdogan would have been preferable to leaving him alive, especially considering they had no chance to capture him (his aerial escort being as strong as the intercepting fighters and we know that the airport was safe enough for him to land there). It was obvious how Erdogan would handle those that surrender, making his party collapse would have been a better chance to surive.

But considering that we now know that the whole thing with coupist choppers bombarding Erdogan's hotel was a false flag and was proven wrong by witnesses, I would not be surprised if this was another false information spread by state sources/media to make Erdogan look even more heroic. "Putin wrestles with bears, but Erdogan flies through enemy fighter screens unarmed and almost got killed in his hotel just for the sake of the Turkish people! He is a hero, the hero we need!"

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Your forgetting the major fact that the "coup" was a gift from God, so don't argue that they couldn't touch him, he was under devine protection.

 

[NyMartin90]

Again I'm not defending but I'm trying not to generalize this but analyze the situation.

Overall the coup was a lose lose situation, however if the Kemalists/army did succeed it would keep secular Turkey intact.

 

[sflufan]

Again I'm not defending but I'm trying not to generalize this but analyze the situation.

Overall the coup was a lose lose situation, however if the Kemalists/army did succeed it would keep secular Turkey intact.

I'm not sure that there are any Kemalists left in the military.

 

[NyMartin90]

I'm not sure that there are any Kemalists left in the military.

prior to the coup or after?

 

[sflufan]

prior to the coup or after?

Prior to this "mutiny".

 

[NyMartin90]

Prior to this "mutiny".

Yea there were still some factions, but surely there were still some secularists in the army prior to these events that I would've liked to have seen succeed, even with Erdogan replacing them with his own "yes men." Although I would've liked this "mutiny" to have been "bloodless".

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

I'm not sure that there are any Kemalists left in the military.

Considering that pretty much every commanding officer on a brigade level and several generals (the latter who have already had several purges anyway) were purged in the last two days out of pure paranoia, probably including a few Erdogan supporters, I'm not even sure what's left in the military right now. I think literally anyone could invade the country right now and the army wouldn't be able to effectively respond.

I mean just look at it, that's pretty much every single major unit that has lost its commanding officer(s):

 

[Coriolanus]

I can't imagine who would want to deal with a new government if they literally blew him out of the sky. I think they could've atleast captured him at the airport and put him on a quick trial and exile.

Hrm. International actors dealt with Mahmoud Jibril, Abdurrahim El-Keib and Ali Zeidan just fine, and their predecessor was sodomized with a bayonet.

But yes, there would be other consequences.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Turkish air force chief Akin Ozturk "confesses" to planning Friday's coup attempt in which some 200 died - state media

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europ...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Wasn't heh inbthat at one mass arrst picture?


With the ear


Edit: no it was bandaged. .

 

[Stinkles]

Although it's obviously being used as an opportunity to destroy the constitution and cement a dictatorship, the Coup itself may have been organic, or been encouraged as part of a conspiracy - but how would Turks (the people and what's left of the army) respond if it were proven beyond doubt that Erdogan orchestrated the entire thing?

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Although it's obviously being used as an opportunity to destroy the constitution and cement a dictatorship, the Coup itself may have been organic, or been encouraged as part of a conspiracy - but how would Turks (the people and what's left of the army) respond if it were proven beyond doubt that Erdogan orchestrated the entire thing?

Same way they responded when historians proved the Armenia genocide without a doubt.

 

[Baybars]

You don't do a coup without already having the leader underwraps.

It was a prepackaged coup with the arrest lists already drafted and waiting to go. Just incite a few junior officers that there is a coup underway and then pull the rug out.

The haphazard nature of the coup underlines how it was meant to fail and give Ergodan free reign to move hardline.

Anyone who says this was a false flag frankly needs to have their heads examined. You don't launch attacks on the parliament, police HQs, intelligence HQs, run over civilians with tanks kill the counter terrorism officer of the nation in an elaboate hoax affair.

If the coupists were 20 minutes earlier, they would have got erdogan in his hotel

All the people peddling this stuff are frankly the same type of folks with the 9/11 bush did it mentality

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

BREAKING NEWS, so much for Turkey being a valuable partner against ISIS:

TURKEY: Top counter-terrorism official responsible for campaign vs #ISIS found with hands tied behind his back, shot in neck.

Source

 

[Corto]

Those damn gulenists strike again.

 

[orochi91]

BREAKING NEWS, so much for Turkey being a valuable partner against ISIS:

Doesn't seem like much of a loss, considering Turkey's campaign seemed to mostly consist of bombing the Kurds fighting ISIS.

 

[Stinkles]

Anyone who says this was a false flag frankly needs to have their heads examined. You don't launch attacks on the parliament, police HQs, intelligence HQs, run over civilians with tanks kill the counter terrorism officer of the nation in an elaboate hoax affair.

If the coupists were 20 minutes earlier, they would have got erdogan in his hotel

All the people peddling this stuff are frankly the same type of folks with the 9/11 bush did it mentality

Regardless of whether the coup was real or not, Erdogan had a pre formed plan ready to deal with one. this can't even be disputed. You don't assemble a list of 2500 judges to fire in the first hour of a coup, dude. Also incredibly unusual for a leader to fly directly into the center of ongoing battles - and frankly if it were real, a highly dangerous and irresponsible thing to do. So there's NOTHING paranoid about examining it and investigating the possibility.

I personally feel like it was probably a real, crappy, poorly organized coup, but there are some staggering coincidences and behaviors from Erdogan.

This is NOTHING like 9/11.

 

[spekkeh]

Anyone who says this was a false flag frankly needs to have their heads examined. You don't launch attacks on the parliament, police HQs, intelligence HQs, run over civilians with tanks kill the counter terrorism officer of the nation in an elaboate hoax affair.

All the people peddling this stuff are frankly the same type of folks with the 9/11 bush did it mentality

That's not what anyone is saying, and it's nowhere near 9/11, nor is the reaction similar. That's a bad comparison.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

Doesn't seem like much of a loss, considering Turkey's campaign seemed to mostly consist of bombing the Kurds fighting ISIS.

Still rather surprising to see the one guy responsible in the Turkish fight against ISIS being executed by professionals and found in a gutter without an arrest or anything.

 

[Tecnniqe]

BREAKING NEWS, so much for Turkey being a valuable partner against ISIS:

That Gulen!!!!1


Wonder how many more will show up in the coming weeks.

 

[Baybars]

Doesn't seem like much of a loss, considering Turkey's campaign seemed to mostly consist of bombing the Kurds fighting ISIS.

I guess you missed the hundreds of turkish artillery shelling of daesh in northern syrian for the last few months. As for the kurds, the turks are after one set of folks. The PKK which turkey has been battling long before isis showed up. The PKK has murdered thousands of turkish civilians over the years.

If fighting isis gives you carte blanche then perhaps we should ally with nusra too since they have killed hell lot of isis foot soldiers in syria as well

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

I guess you missed the hundreds of turkish artillery shelling of daesh in northern syrian for the last few months.

Wonder how many of those were hitting Kurdish positions by accident.

 

[Azzanadra]

This whole episode has made me ponder a relevant quetsion- is Turkey more secular than America? For all of his faults, Erdogan doesn't seem as religiously ferverous as the average Republican, he would be a John Kasich at worst.

 

[Theonik]

The Executive Branch cannot execute an extradition action on its own.

That thought must baffle Erdogan.

This whole episode has made me ponder a relevant quetsion- is Turkey more secular than America? For all of his faults, Erdogan doesn't seem as religiously ferverous as the average Republican, he would be a John Kasich at worst.

Wot

 

[Pterion]

Same way they responded when historians proved the Armenia genocide without a doubt.

*paging stereogatari*

 

[Baybars]

Wonder how many of those were hitting Kurdish positions by accident.

Turkish artllery against mostly northern aleppo suburbs along the mar'a line which the american a 10s have been bombing for months

 

[firehawk12]

Wonder how many of those were hitting Kurdish positions by accident.

"accident"

 

[Rikudo]

This whole episode has made me ponder a relevant quetsion- is Turkey more secular than America? For all of his faults, Erdogan doesn't seem as religiously ferverous as the average Republican, he would be a John Kasich at worst.

Good god. wut! :/ lol/ You're a mess with anything involving politics.sad.

 

[Frustrated_me]

But guys the ARMY OF CHAOS is defeated and DEMOCRACY has won!

Fucking idiots, blindly voting in Erdogan because of religion.

After the events of last week I'm proud to say first and foremost I'm Canadian and that's about where it stops. I have no intention on renewing my Turkish passport ever again, the people who elected Erdogan can rot inside the country for all I care now. What the religious Islamist have done to the country is shameful, embarrassing and disenfranchising.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

Turkish artllery against mostly northern aleppo suburbs along the mar'a line which the american a 10s have been bombing for months

"mostly"

 

[SgtCobra]

But guys the ARMY OF CHAOS is defeated and DEMOCRACY has won!

Fucking idiots, blindly voting in Erdogan because of religion.

After the events of last week I'm proud to say first and foremost I'm Canadian and that's about where it stops. I have no intention on renewing my Turkish passport ever again, the people who elected Erdogan can rot inside the country for all I care now. What the religious Islamist have done to the country is shameful, embarrassing and disenfranchising.

Turkey is a beautiful country with a fascinating history, delicious food and a nice culture. But like I said some time ago; the people want what the people want, and that's RTE. If they wanna become a mess with him at the helm then so be it, they'll have to live with the consequences wether they like it or not.

 

[Tecnniqe]

"mostly"

You know, it's acceptable a few shellings miss here and there >.>

 

[EmiPrime]

I hope I live to see a secular, democratic Turkey in the EU and wannabe sultans like Erdogan are stopped before they can consolidate power and set the country back decades.

Anyone with a pulse could see this coming 10+ years ago and yet it was allowed to happen. Now the half of the country that hasn't drunk the Islamist KoolAid is going to suffer even more. It's heartbreaking.

 

[dakun]

But guys the ARMY OF CHAOS is defeated and DEMOCRACY has won!

Fucking idiots, blindly voting in Erdogan because of religion.

After the events of last week I'm proud to say first and foremost I'm Canadian and that's about where it stops. I have no intention on renewing my Turkish passport ever again, the people who elected Erdogan can rot inside the country for all I care now. What the religious Islamist have done to the country is shameful, embarrassing and disenfranchising.

It's tragic especially because of the history of this country. Turkey was supposed to be the shining beacon in the region. This country was built for greatness. The people didn't live up the what was given to them by Atatürk.

 

[Azzanadra]

I hope I live to see a secular, democratic Turkey in the EU and wannabe sultans like Erdogan are stopped before they can consolidate power and set the country back decades.

Anyone with a pulse could see this coming 10+ years ago and yet it was allowed to happen. Now the half of the country that hasn't drunk the Islamist KoolAid is going to suffer even more. It's heartbreaking.

I once read that the reason Ataturk manged to do the secularism thing so well is because he did it in secret, kind of behind everyone's backs. Its a shame how all his work will be undone like this. Not to mention Erdogan will certainly do away with the whole coup idea, which means when he evolves into his true form there will be no one to stop him.

 

[Jackpot]

False flag. No other reasonable explanation.

Right............

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-very-nearly-succeeded-say-turkish-officials

President Erdoğan himself was at the resort of Marmaris, but had left the residence where he was staying some 20 minutes before coup plotters attacked it. Around 25 soldiers in helicopters descended on a hotel there on ropes, shooting, in an apparent attempt to seize him just after Erdoğan had left, broadcaster CNN Turk said.

But as he flew from Marmaris on a business jet, two F-16 fighter jets locked their radar targeting system on the president’s plane, according to an account first reported by Reuters and later confirmed to the Guardian.

The jets didn’t fire after the presidential plane’s pilot told the fighter jet pilots over the radio that it was a Turkish Airlines flight, a senior counter-terrorism official told the Guardian.

Back at the prime ministry, despair was setting in. They had resolved to make a final stand in the parliament, when Erdoğan appeared on a live broadcast at 12.37am on a reporter’s iPhone, exhorting the people to defend democracy.

“What is FaceTime? Why don’t I have it?” asked one of the ministers in attendance.

“That was the moment when the psychology were reversed and we thought we were going to win,” said Haşimi.

People began taking to the streets in larger numbers, answering the call of the president and the religious affairs Diyanet ministry, which had called on the imams of Turkey’s mosques to take to their minarets to declare “God is great”. The call to take to the streets was met with unease by some ministers, who worried it would result in a massacre.

On their way to the parliament, Haşimi and the rest of the ministers received the news that it had been bombed. That was one of the key pivotal points that led to the failure of the coup, he said. While he appreciated that many of those who took to the streets did not like Erdoğan’s government, the attack on the parliament, the first by the military since the 1920s, was too much of a provocation.

False flag conspiracies are the height of stupidity. You may as well wear a neon sign that you can't be taken seriously.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

BREAKING NEWS, so much for Turkey being a valuable partner against ISIS:

Color me shocked.

 

[trembli0s]

So Islamist goons are running around killing opposition leaders and harassing minorities.

What a shocking development.

DEMOCRACY GUYS, JUST VOTE THEM OUT

 

[spekkeh]

If fighting isis gives you carte blanche then perhaps we should ally with nusra too since they have killed hell lot of isis foot soldiers in syria as well

But Turkey did ally with Nusra.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Qaeda-in-Syria-says-former-US-ambassador.html

 

[dakun]

I once read that the reason Ataturk manged to do the secularism thing so well is because he did it in secret, kind of behind everyone's backs.

Not really. If you think about how much power Atatürk had after fighting the war for independence he really didn't need to hide his intentions nor did he have to ask anyone. The country was exhausted from the war and was ready to follow their liberator, with some exceptions of course.
Stuff like adopting the latin alphabet, changing the calender to the Gregorian one, giving women the right to vote, banning polygamy, making everyone have a surname. These aren't things you do behind somebody's back. He demanded it from the country and basically made them do it.

It was quite incredible that this man was able to accomplish so much in a time span of 15 years.
His biggest and probably only real negative side was how Kurds were treated by his government and still are being treated to this day.

 

[Kurtofan]

BREAKING NEWS, so much for Turkey being a valuable partner against ISIS:

Is the next step Erdogan funding ISIS attacks in Europe?

 

[Azzanadra]

Not really. If you think about how much power Atatürk had after fighting the war for independence he really didn't need to hide his intentions nor did he have to ask anyone. The country was exhausted from the war and was ready to follow their liberator, with some exceptions of course.
Stuff like adopting the latin alphabet, changing the calender to the Gregorian one, giving women the right to vote, banning polygamy, making everyone have a surname. These aren't things you do behind somebody's back. He demanded it from the country and basically made them do it.

It was quite incredible that this man was able to accomplish so much in a time span of 15 years.
His biggest and probably only real negative side was how Kurds were treated by his government and still are being treated to this day.

Thanks for the clarifications, and yeah it is mind blowing how much he managed to do. A lot of people joke about the cult of personality he has but honestly, I feel like adhering to his ideals and person is what Turkey needs right now.

 

[yongeandcollege]

Right............

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-very-nearly-succeeded-say-turkish-officials





False flag conspiracies are the height of stupidity. You may as well wear a neon sign that you can't be taken seriously.

It's a very plausible explanation in this case. We'll see, as time passes, who is in the height of stupidity. I'll keep your sign warm.

 

[Sijil]

I wouldn't call what happened a false flag operation, Erdogan leaked information to the generals that they were going to be purged which forced their hands into the coup, a coup Erdogan was prepared for and is now reaping all the rewards. There are reports around that many of the arrested generals were scheduled for early or forced retirement.

 

[Corto]

I wouldn't call what happened a false flag operation, Erdogan leaked information to the generals that they were going to be purged which forced their hands into the coup, a coup Erdogan was prepared for and is now reaping all the rewards. There are reports around that many of the arrested generals were scheduled for early or forced retirement.

Early or forced retirement wouldn't trigger a coup. Arrests or dishonourable removal maybe. A General, Admiral at the end of his career wouldn't risk all of it just for a few more years of service or salary. Something that could have happen would be that a coup was plotted by a majority of the Army forces and then at the last minute when it was already in motion most of the forces backed out, purposefully or not.

 

[NyMartin90]

Early or forced retirement wouldn't trigger a coup. Arrests or dishonourable removal maybe. A General, Admiral at the end of his career wouldn't risk all of it just for a few more years of service or salary. Something that could have happen would be that a coup was plotted by a majority of the Army forces and then at the last minute when it was already in motion most of the forces backed out, purposefully or not.

I think this is very likely, especially when people went onto the streets/ parliament was bombed

 

[trembli0s]

Early or forced retirement wouldn't trigger a coup. Arrests or dishonourable removal maybe. A General, Admiral at the end of his career wouldn't risk all of it just for a few more years of service or salary. Something that could have happen would be that a coup was plotted by a majority of the Army forces and then at the last minute when it was already in motion most of the forces backed out, purposefully or not.

Early or forced retirement could absolutely trigger a coup, if the retirements were targeted at secular/Kemliast/Gulenist mid-level commanders who were the last bastion of independence in the military.

AFAIK one of the triggers for this was the fact that most of the rest of the military leaders who escaped the initial purge were being replaced in August.

If all the commanders are Erdostans in August, there really isn't anyone to lead a coup anymore because the low level grunts aren't typically the ones running coups in any context.