You Are Viewtiful
Member
You have any comments from Western governments/trustworthy NGOs talking about the election being rigged?
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Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal
- Thread starter nynt9
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You have any comments from Western governments/trustworthy NGOs talking about the election being rigged?
MMaRsu
Member
No he wasnt????
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Military coups set democracy back decades. It's not the answer.
Seems like posters in here want to see Turkey turned into another Egypt with a military dictator installed.
Seems like posters in here want to see Turkey turned into another Egypt with a military dictator installed.
hydragonwarrior
Member
If he starts jailing more of his opposition and banning negative commentary of him, would you start thinking he is slightly a shitty president?
They had that much senior support, and this was the end result?
Perhaps the citizens and domestic police interference is why this operation failed; have they ever interfered to this extent in previous Turkish military coups?
Dangansona
Member
I read somewhere that it's in the Turkish constitution that it's the role of the secular military to stage a coup if the government is deemed too radical in Islam. Is there any truth to that? Because it isn't being reported much during this coup.
Turkey wasn't a stable or Muslim country yesterday. Today both aspects are questionable.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Where did I say he was a good president?
They had the support, clearly, because fighting is still going on.
I don't know if they had the levers at the very top though which might have made things more difficult.
I also don't think they were planning on the mosques calling believers out into the streets. My guess is they thought Erdogan would flee and lose face with supporters. Instead, that face time might have saved his skin.
NyMartin90
Member
This is exactly what it was, in my opinion.
Junior military officers attempted to take control themselves and hoped that the people would side with them. The higher ups definitely didn't follow this as most are yes-men to Erdogan.
This isn't the first time junior officers tried to take control. If we go by Ottoman standards junior officers attempted to take control in 1908, and succeeded in another one in 1909 and 1913.
Another junior officer coup was in 1960.
Difference is that this is the first time the coup was unsuccessful.
Dangansona
Member
Also why would Turkish civilians not think it's fucked up to be asked to go stand out in the streets? At least referring to those that did.
so glad this didnt happen
MMaRsu
Member
Erdogan was already turning into a dictatorship with him in charge.
Actually, he was already acting like a dictator.
There are numerous posts in this thread showing the elections were rigged.
Look for wikiwand links. On top of that factor in that Erdogan has arrested journalists, closed opposition newspapers down, and TV channels and you can't say anything other than the system is unfair and rigged.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
If a military dictator was the result, what would the difference have been to the current de facto dictatorship?
Ether_Snake
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Nope, coups aren't driven by the soldiers. Their commanders probably gave the order and they just followed, probably being told they had more support than they really did.
Yeah but like hitler won it fair and square tho rite??? /s
As in the government power structure or emulating actual Nazi ideology?
We had a similar situation in Canada where Justin Trudeau (current PM) had said this:
That doesn't mean he actually wants to turn Canada into a dictatorship, akin to China.
Kenshin001
Member
It's not about defending Erdogan, it's about defending the institution of democracy. If Erdogan suspends elections or puts opposition leaders under house arrest then I'd be all for a coup. I'd expect the Turkish people to support one too.
Dangansona
Member
Damn that's a bold thing to say.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Only one or two people here are defending Erdogan. People need to stop conflating anti-putschism with Erdogan support. There's no guarantee a military coup would end up well. It could go smoothly or it could end up in total chaos (especially after factoring in Erdogan's popularity as much as some on GAF like to deny it), and the latter is the last thing we need given what's going on next door.
And now that the coup has failed, it did end up making everything worse. The plotters are idiots.
Frustrated_me
Member
Is it not crazy? Erdogan's supporters actively ignore every wrong he does and just shrug it off? He can't do no wrong. It's impossible for the man to do any wrong, he's their shining beacon of light. There's one or two of his supporters in this very thread, would jump over a bridge for him. It's kinda scary.
People should be studying where his magic powers come from.
Islamists don't know how to rule democratically.
"We elected a Hitler-esque figure into office who is killing our own people and ruining the entire country, but he was democratically elected so we have to defend him"
Come on. There comes a time when you have to realize that democracy has failed you.
Sounds more like a back handed compliment to me.
You do realize he's brought a suit against opposition leaders and wants to strip legislative immunity don't you?
He already arrested and jailed large numbers of secularists during the two big prior purges he orchestrated.
Frustrated_me
Member
Hundreds of people are arrested. 5 generals and 29 colonels is the latest number.
The cleanup has begun.
The cleanup has begun.
Coriolanus
Banned
Why? El-Sisi was elected in 2014 via a totes legit democratic process too.
aka: "i only like democracy when it goes my way"
Thrashinuva
Banned
Let this be burned into everyone's memories. What people fear is not violence. What people fear is change.
People are fine with getting the short end of the stick, if it means they get to continue their lifestyle a little longer, regardless of whether or not they would be better off with change. The ultimate tool for change is violence, and so among other reasons it's easily met with criticism and protests. Many prisoners are content with staying prisoners. Many people in North Korea or China are content with living their lives completely dominated by their governments. If a foreign military decided to overthrow North Korea's dictatorship, their own military would fight to the death to protect it. Many of them might agree with that foreign power, but it would be change, which is absolutely something that they have to defend against.
Change is risky. Change is uncertainty.
People don't remember history. The national "reset button" doesn't mean anything to them. All it means is that there's going to be a greater change tomorrow if the coup is successful, than if Ergodan is still in power tomorrow and decides to end the lives of anyone involved in the coup. You could argue about morals all day, but morals aren't the deciding factor here.
In the end if you're a radical Islamic terrorist with a heart of gold, laying down your suicide bomb vest and living a peaceful life is scarier than dying.
People are fine with getting the short end of the stick, if it means they get to continue their lifestyle a little longer, regardless of whether or not they would be better off with change. The ultimate tool for change is violence, and so among other reasons it's easily met with criticism and protests. Many prisoners are content with staying prisoners. Many people in North Korea or China are content with living their lives completely dominated by their governments. If a foreign military decided to overthrow North Korea's dictatorship, their own military would fight to the death to protect it. Many of them might agree with that foreign power, but it would be change, which is absolutely something that they have to defend against.
Change is risky. Change is uncertainty.
People don't remember history. The national "reset button" doesn't mean anything to them. All it means is that there's going to be a greater change tomorrow if the coup is successful, than if Ergodan is still in power tomorrow and decides to end the lives of anyone involved in the coup. You could argue about morals all day, but morals aren't the deciding factor here.
In the end if you're a radical Islamic terrorist with a heart of gold, laying down your suicide bomb vest and living a peaceful life is scarier than dying.
Hazelhurst
Member
Turkey is a bigger country than I thought it was, as far as land mass.
SilentRacoon
Member
Pretty much, 2 mayors have already been removed from position for allegedly supporting the uprising.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-kurds-curfew-idUSKCN0ZU19K?il=0
Anyone that looked him funny in the past couple of month better watch out, he might have supported the coup without them even knowing.
HighResTomato
Member
What are you on about?
I think you give people way too much credit.
Frustrated_me
Member
That it's an Islamist state.
Have you met any of the AKP supporters?
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Ha, most of GAF was cheering that coup on while I was having my vindicated meltdown
As far as I know, Erdogan didn't ban the main opposition party and shoot protestors on sight etc. It was a contested election, the CHP was completely disorganized and unprepared as they have been for the past 15 years now, and the HDP bubble popped after they did a terrible job of disassociating themselves from the PKK. The election results weren't really surprising. Other than the western urban parts of the country, Erdogan has always been immensely popular in Turkey.
Uh what?
Mr. Giggles
Member
Pretty much
The people stepped up and defended their president and government. These are incredibly brave citizens.
They could have ignored Erdogan's plea, but they opted to answer his call instead.
Dangansona
Member
That's what I'm saying, and I don't understand who would listen to him and think "OK."
Now we're on our way to plumbing the depths of Godwin's law. He isn't Hitler, and you don't have to even remotely like the guy to see that. If anything, he might be closer to a modern figure like Hugo Chavez or Xi Jinping.
Erdogan has won numerous elections throughout the years, and while there were some issues with some of those per the OSCE and other orgs, it's pretty clear that he enjoys backing by a significant portion of the populace. That doesn't mean a lot of his actions, which tend to neuter vital institutions and consolidate power to his office, aren't destructive to the general welfare of the country, but let's have a little perspective here.
Erdogan has won numerous elections throughout the years, and while there were some issues with some of those per the OSCE and other orgs, it's pretty clear that he enjoys backing by a significant portion of the populace. That doesn't mean a lot of his actions, which tend to neuter vital institutions and consolidate power to his office, aren't destructive to the general welfare of the country, but let's have a little perspective here.
Omega Kirby
Member
Brexit doesn't seem so bad now
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