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[Nesotenso]

But he won elections that were totally above board!

If we ignore the imprisoning of political opponents as well as academics and journalists who get a bit too vocal.

And the electoral fraud.

And that he controls all the media.

If that's not democracy I don't know what is.

about electoral fraud, it seems AKP lost their parliamentary majority in 2015. What did international observers say about the elections?

 

[Patapwn]

Brave citizens, rising to the challenge, helping to preserve an oppressive state. Thank goodness that tomorrow, the jailing of political dissidents, suppression of the press and murder of Kurds can go on unmolested.

We salute their courageous sacrifice (-ω-)ゝ

Its one thing to be against the coup, its another to flood the streets and basically go to war for Glorious Sultan of Ottoman 2.0

Thats the main reason I feel apathetic with the outcome.The Turkish people like whats happening, thats the unfortunate truth. Islamic state is happening the only question is when exactly. Let them live with the consequences of that and hope the world at large isnt affected too much

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

2016 claims another life: Republic of Turkey.

Time to move the nukes out and kick them out of NATO. Russia can have fun with them

successful coups didnt force turkey out of nato in the past.

soz mate

 

[orthodoxy1095]

clueless as ever.

no surprise you could oppose the mobilisation of a populace in preserving democracy.

its ok mate, you can hate Turks and be pleased democracy triumphing at the same time.

it also doesnt mean authoritarianism is condoned. like you are able to have these ideas in your head. at. the. same. time.

Nah, I don't hate Turks.

I do however hate anyone who supports Erdogan with a fiery passion. Absolutely horrible people. And anyone going to bat for him isn't "preserving democracy," especially since Turkey isn't a democracy anyways under his watch.

Its one thing to be against the coup, its another to flood the streets and basically go to war for Glorious Sultan of Ottoman 2.0

Thats the main reason I feel apathetic with the outcome.The Turkish people like whats happening, thats the unfortunate truth. Islamic state is happening the only question is when exactly. Let them live with the consequences of that and hope the world at large isnt affected too much

Basically, yep.

Crazy.

 

[Mr.Sumal]

So, the coup has most likely failed or is this propaganda ? Also, doesn't the miltitary have some important people hostage?

A poster said earlier that the chief of staff is missing or presumed dead

Govt says its foiled but there's still hold outs in ankara

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Nah, don't hate Turks.

I hate anyone who supports Erdogan, with a fiery passion.

course you dont.

 

[Branduil]

I'm sorry i accused you of only liking democracy when it goes your way, it's kinda evident you just don't like it at all.

Pure majority-rules democracy? Sure don't, since it's dumb idea that only ignorant fools and craven bigots admire. I don't think any reasonable person would like "democracy" that allowed for 51% of people to decide that black people should be slaves again, or that free speech should be abolished, or that the government should establish an official state religion and persecute everyone outside of it.

But if you want to like that kind of democracy and look down on everyone who doesn't, you do you I guess.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

course you dont.

Think whatever you like. Don't really give a shit about your opinion.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

nothings more democratic then having the military take over.

you guys must be knackered from the mental gymnastics

 

[kami_sama]

Pure majority-rules democracy? Sure don't, since it's dumb idea that only ignorant fools and craven bigots admire. I don't think any reasonable person would like "democracy" that allowed for 51% of people to decide that black people should be slaves again, or that free speech should be abolished, or that the government should establish an official state religion and persecute everyone outside of it.

But if you want to like that kind of democracy and look down on everyone who doesn't, you do you I guess.

Yeah, democracy can't be whatever the 51% want, there should be a system to stop those really stupid thing to pass.
While such a system can be abused, I think it's still better than the alternative.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

nothings more democratic then having the military take over.

you guys must be knackered from the mental gymnastics

Nothing more democratic than supporting a state that intimidates the press, mucks with religious freedom, kills ethnic minorities and jails political opposition amirite.

Pure majority-rules democracy? Sure don't, since it's dumb idea that only ignorant fools and craven bigots admire. I don't think any reasonable person would like "democracy" that allowed for 51% of people to decide that black people should be slaves again, or that free speech should be abolished, or that the government should establish an official state religion and persecute everyone outside of it.

But if you want to like that kind of democracy and look down on everyone who doesn't, you do you I guess.

You would think.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Think whatever you like. Don't really give a shit about your opinion.

good luck fighting for juntas and coup d'etats in the future when the children of osman do something again

also let me know how old recep was in 1915.

your razor sharp insight has been quite something

HDP are traitors then?

Greece are condoning and embracing Erdogan yeah?

international community greenlighting all that you wrote?

youre exceptionally insightful.

 

[trembli0s]

successful coups didnt force turkey out of nato in the past.

soz mate

Successful prior coups didn't install Islamist fuckwit authoritarian dictators in Turkey.

There is zero reason to have that base in a country like that. Pack it up and let Erdogan have his Islamic fiefdom.

 

[Khoryos]

nothings more democratic then having the military take over.

Based on Turkish history? Actually, yes. That's explicitly their job.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

What a sausage-fest

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Successful prior coups didn't install Islamist fuckwit authoritarian dictators in Turkey.

There is zero reason to have that base in a country like that. Pack it up and let Erdogan have his Islamic fiefdom.

do me a favour.

dont talk to me again.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

good luck fighting for juntas and coup d'etats in the future the children of osman do something again

also let me know how old recep was in 1915.

your razor sharp insight has been quite somethihg

Recep wasn't born.

Interesting then that he finds it necessary to deny the genocide happened considering he wasn't alive.

Quick way to tell if you're a piece of shit: you deny that your country committed three genocides

Greece are condoning and embracing Erdogan yeah?

Tsipras is pretty crap as well, but he's also understandably just playing polite politics with a border neighbor.

Can't expect them to do much more when their military is junk and Turkey has a history of invading nearby lands and claiming them. Don't want a spillover civil war on their doorstep when they're still figuring out their own internal problems.

 

[emag]

Nothing more democratic than supporting a state that intimidates the press, mucks with religious freedom, kills ethnic minorities and jails political opposition amirite.

You would think.

Isn't it an absolute lock that each of those things would be much worse under junta rule?

 

[womfalcs3]

A list of things that are true:

-Erdogan is a democratically elected leader
-He has ruled in an increasingly undemocratic and authoritarian way
-Military coups are undemocratic
-The coup plotters attempted to depose Erdogan, but also bombed the Turkish parliament, attempted to suppress the media, and killed civilians
-All Turkish political parties opposed the coup, including the opposition
-Erdogan will now take advantage of the opportunity that the coup has presented to further consolidate his power and crack down on his enemies

Any attempt to construct a narrative or interpretation of these events that has only a single villian necessarily means denying at least some of the above.

Sometimes there is no lesser evil. If you're going to be angry, be angry for the people of Turkey, who had nothing to gain (and now are at risk of losing everything) from these events regardless of the victor.

Good summary.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Based on Turkish history? Actually, yes. That's explicitly their job.

ill wake up menderes then to let him it was worth it.

pipe the fuck down with your wiki reading self, spending 20 minutes on the toilet reading isnt akin to actually knowing m8

 

[Cromwell]

so then what is a democracy if not a decision by the masses?

I do agree with your premise that it doesn't always lead to what's morally right but a democracy is a democracy

Let's, for a moment, look at brexit. The country voted to leave despite pretty much the whole world saying not to do it - but you need to respect the votes since it came from the people

No one needs to respect people who voted to fuck everything up for the rest of the world. Brexit is a good example of something that should have never been left up to democracy.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Isn't it an absolute lock that each of those things would be much worse under junta rule?

No, not really.

There are successful military coups that have transitioned to proper democracy throughout history.

 

[kirblar]

nothings more democratic then having the military take over.

you guys must be knackered from the mental gymnastics

The judiciary regularly overrules legislative and executive actions in the US and uses force to make sure they stick.

This is that principle on a wider scale.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Recep wasn't born.

Interesting then that he finds it necessary to deny the genocide happened considering he wasn't alive.

Quick way to tell if you're a piece of shit: you deny that your country committed three genocides

Tsipras is pretty crap as well, but he's also understandably just playing polite politics with a border neighbor.

Don't expect them to do much more when their military is junk and Turkey has a history of invading nearby lands and claiming them.

excuses for greece.

international community then?

hdp?

any nuance in that binary world of false dilemmas you live in?

presume opposing military rule means theyre all supporting the denial of those genocides?

 

[trembli0s]

excuses for greece.

international community then?

hdp?

any nuance in that binary world of false dilemmas you live in?

presume opposing military rule means theyre all supporting the denial of those genocides?

Don't worry, Erdogan will deliver a Kurdish genocide shortly.

 

[Mr.Sumal]

No, not really.

There are successful military coups that have transitioned to proper democracy throughout history.

pre-approved parties by the junta is the transition to proper democracy?

 

[spiderman123]

Ok we can say x y z but in the end Turkey GAF, is Erdogan a good leader?!

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

The judiciary regularly overrules legislative and executive actions in the US and uses force to make sure they stick.

This is that principle on a wider scale.

separation of powers does not include the military having its say.

with that model, where was the judgment that authorised a coup?

or in another way, a judgment in the US enacted and enforced by the military on its own.

stop embarrassing yourself

 

[orthodoxy1095]

international community then?

The international community has their own reasons. Wanting to maintain good relations with a military ally or being a lover of Islamism are two easy reasons that cover a good swath of nations.

presume opposing military rule means theyre all supporting the denial of those genocides?

No, I presume opposing a military coup means lending your aid to a wicked government.

Although we all know that denial of genocide isn't exactly an uncommon viewpoint in Turkey.

 

[kirblar]

separation of powers does not include the military having its say.

with that model, where was the judgment that authorised a coup?

or in another way, a judgment in the US enacted and enforced by the military on its own.

stop embarrassing yourself

I'm not embarrassing myself, that power was put in there for a reason. We're seeing that reason in action right now as the country devolves. They haven't been willing to use it previously because of the level of toxicity that's built up.

 

[reckless]

Ok we can say x y z but in the end Turkey GAF, is Erdogan a good leader?!

They better watch what they say, criticizing Erdogan can land you in jail.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Successful prior coups didn't install Islamist fuckwit authoritarian dictators in Turkey.

There is zero reason to have that base in a country like that. Pack it up and let Erdogan have his Islamic fiefdom.

Being a member of NATO has nothing to do with being a liberal democracy.

Don't worry, Erdogan will deliver a Kurdish genocide shortly.

lol are you joking? He's one of the biggest reasons Kurdistan separatist sentiments have dropped considerably in Turkey. Kurds were a huge part of his coalition of voters until the 2015 election. It's mostly soured due to his overreaction to PKK, but there is no genocide of Kurds. Come the fuck on.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Don't worry, Erdogan will deliver a Kurdish genocide shortly.

Once we get there, the Erdogan stans will find a way to explain to us how the Kurds deserved to die.

Just like they do now with the Armenians.

 

[norinrad]

Just got out of bed to read about the end game. This about wraps it up and democracy dies in Turkey for now.

 

[Funyarinpa]

I’m glad the coup has seemingly failed. I hope Erdogan purges the military of all that thought such action justified and this failed coup allows for the constitution of Turkey to be changed. So that in the future no one can ever again claim legality for such a murderous and despicable act. Military coups are almost never the answer, especially not in democratic countries in the 21st century. Allowing the military to solely decide when and if to forcibly remove an elected leader in order to protect such vague concepts as democracy and secularism, even when action seems to be opposed by all political parties and the people themselves, is dangerous, undemocratic and not at all comparable to Supreme Courts and other such institutions in the West (institutions that Turkey shares). Dislike Erdogan all you like, I do too, but he is not in any way like Hitler or the slave-holding South, comparisons I’ve actually seen made in this thread. You should be ashamed of yourselves and if Erdogan uses this to gain even more power it’ll be no one else’s fault but the military and yourselves.

Well fucking sorry for hoping that a racist, sexist, fascist Islamist asshole would finally be overthrown. You don't know shit about the damage this one man has done to this country and the insane loyalty of his followers. Coup failing means his fans - followers- will go batshit insane now. Erdoğan staying in power is a far more permanent threat to the Turkish democracy than this attempted coup. Now there's no stopping this asshole until he dies (and probably takes all of the Turkish Republic's key principles and civilization with him to the grave).

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Any truth to the rumor/accounts of the "coup" soldiers were told it was training?

If so, continues my cynicism of this whole thing.

 

[jorma]

Would all of the military coup apologists in here also support a coup in the US if Trump wins?

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Don't worry, Erdogan will deliver a Kurdish genocide shortly.

During his democratically elected reign, Kurdish relations have never been this good.

If you think the bombings are bad now, should have been around during the 80s/90s

Talking about leaders with disgusting records on Kurds, you know that leader Ataturk, the one the military use to justify their coups, might be worth reading into that.

You wouldnt know though, your reddit skimming, outloud reading of wikipedia put you off actually knowing about the subject matter

edit: see for those that can't deal in nuance, are colourblind and are only blessed with black and white vision, you can utterly despise Erdogan and still march on the streets opposing a military coup.

For what its worth, Erdogan is an absolute cunt.

Keep trying to justify a coup though

 

[Green Yoshi]

So the coup failed? Dictator erdogan still in power?

Yes, stronger than ever. :-(

Bye, bye free press.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

No one needs to respect people who voted to fuck everything up for the rest of the world. Brexit is a good example of something that should have never been left up to democracy.

I agree that it should never have even been up for debate but it happened.

While democracy definitely isn't perfect I prefer it to the alternative

 

[Cromwell]

I’m glad the coup has seemingly failed. I hope Erdogan purges the military of all that thought such action justified and this failed coup allows for the constitution of Turkey to be changed. So that in the future no one can ever again claim legality for such a murderous and despicable act. Military coups are almost never the answer, especially not in democratic countries in the 21st century. Allowing the military to solely decide when and if to forcibly remove an elected leader in order to protect such vague concepts as democracy and secularism, even when action seems to be opposed by all political parties and the people themselves, is dangerous, undemocratic and not at all comparable to Supreme Courts and other such institutions in the West (institutions that Turkey shares). Dislike Erdogan all you like, I do too, but he is not in any way like Hitler or the slave-holding South, comparisons I’ve actually seen made in this thread. You should be ashamed of yourselves and if Erdogan uses this to gain even more power it’ll be no one else’s fault but the military and yourselves.

What an entirely revolting and insensitive post.

 

[Frankfurter]

During his democratically elected reign, Kurdish relations have never been this good.

If you think the bombings are bad now, should have been around during the 80s/90s

Talking about leaders with disgusting records on Kurds, you know that leader Ataturk, the one the military use to justify their coups, might be worth reading into that.

You wouldnt know though, your reddit skimming, outloud reading of wikipedia put you off actually knowing about the subject matter

So good that he is only bombing them to hell.

 

[Sioen]

Damn what a horrible way to wake up knowing it failed.

 

[antonz]

Would all of the military coup apologists in here also support a coup in the US if Trump wins?

The difference is the Turkish Military has a constitutional mandate to act like they did today. If anything the real problem is they waited too long and Erdogan had already begun purging the military and filling it with men completely loyal to him.

 

[kirblar]

Would all of the military coup apologists in here also support a coup in the US if Trump wins?

No.

If he or someone else were to somehow turn into a literal fascist dictator on the verge of consolidating permanent unilateral power? Yes. Thankfully, we've managed to avoid getting anywhere near that point over the course of our history.

 

[Syder]

Bye, bye free press.

I thought Erdoğan already stamped that out?

 

[Cromwell]

Would all of the military coup apologists in here also support a coup in the US if Trump wins?

Yes. In a heartbeat. Democracy has fucking failed if that man is elected.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

During his democratically elected reign, Kurdish relations have never been this good.

If you think the bombings are bad now, should have been around during the 80s/90s

Talking about leaders with disgusting records on Kurds, you know that leader Ataturk, the one the military use to justify their coups, might be worth reading into that.

You wouldnt know though, your reddit skimming, outloud reading of wikipedia put you off actually knowing about the subject matter

edit: see for those that can't deal in nuance, are colourblind and are only blessed with black and white vision, you can utterly despise Erdogan and still march on the streets opposing a military coup.


For what its worth, Erdogan is an absolute cunt.

Keep trying to justify a coup though

Thank you.

 

[m_shortpants]

Just got out of bed to read about the end game. This about wraps it up and democracy dies in Turkey for now.

Lol, the hyperbole in this thread is fucking ridiculous

 

[trembli0s]

During his democratically elected reign, Kurdish relations have never been this good.

If you think the bombings are bad now, should have been around during the 80s/90s

Talking about leaders with disgusting records on Kurds, you know that leader Ataturk, the one the military use to justify their coups, might be worth reading into that.

You wouldnt know though, your reddit skimming, outloud reading of wikipedia put you off actually knowing about the subject matter

edit: see for those that can't deal in nuance, are colourblind and are only blessed with black and white vision, you can utterly despise Erdogan and still march on the streets opposing a military coup.

For what its worth, Erdogan is an absolute cunt.

Keep trying to justify a coup though

Is this some kind of sick joke? Erdogan fomented a low level civil war against the Kurds just recently to bolster his election prospects. He's a fucking megalomaniac.