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[Branduil]

How is it not a reason? Blunt trauma can cause brain damage, which can in turn cause mental regression.

You're dodging the point. Why did the creators put in a story element that involves a nubile young woman regressing mentally to the point of using baby talk and peeing herself?

 

[Crash Station]

Shakespeare is about as far from boring as you can get.

Even 400 years later, his dialogue remains among the very best, and there's a reason that Shakespeare's works have endured when most of his contemporaries have been forgotten.

Anything can be boring to some people. I don't think it's a super uncommon opinion either.

 

[Orlandu84]

Episode nine impressed me in almost every respect: pacing, dialogue, action, visualization, and sound. I just hope that the following episode continues what this episode did very well - having a strong narrative with an interesting motivation/goal for the characters! Although it is straightforward,

Spoiler

let's look for Shun is at least clear and interesting

.

P.S. Is there currently an award for "most inconsistent anime of the season"? If there isn't, we need to invent one. If there is, then I nominate From the New World for this award

 

[Uchip]

It is not out of the question for a badly damaged brain to revert back to that level of development.

instantaneously and back and forth? yeah fucking right
its stupid and there is no way around that

 

[Syrinx]

Lol, seems I've caused quite a stir with my Elfin Lied inquiry. Or has this happened before?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I think a lot of problems people have with Shakespeare is that they see his worst work in the worst way in high school. You have to read the play, which is not the optimal way to go, or see a shitty film adaptation. It also tends to be stuff like Rome and Juliet, which while good, is one of his lesser works IMO. Nothing beats a good, live performance of Shakespeare.

I think his work can still be powerful when read, but you have to embrace it.

Reading Shakespeare lines aloud can be an incredible experience (and really helps at grasping exactly what the meaning of each line is). Once you get iambic pentameter, it completely changes how you approach his work, and I love to just curl up with a good Shakespeare play and read it. The real problem is that we need to put a moratorium on bad films of Shakespeare plays (I'm looking at you, Rome + Juliet), which just poison the well.

Of course, seeing a live performance is always great, and it's a real treat. You can really engage with the work in a way that you can't do any place else.

 

[cajunator]

I got banned on gaming side over Dragon Quest 9...

that being said to explain cajins point from a few hours ago...

here is the one major problem with the business - and it stems from the issue with how advertising works. The sad truth about the adversting buisness is that outside of the Sports events and the Olympics etc - its a race to the damn bottom. The crux is that they dont want to be "connected" to super nerdy stuff - but what i have seen is a sort of cutting the hand to spite ones face when marketing to "hipsters" (which is a over glorifed "nerd") so ad-men would want to support Apple because its has style. The same idea should work for anime.

But the problem comes back to degrees. how am i gonna sell this when i can find some tweeny bopper show for the same price and get 10 times the profit?

The answer is simple. You follow the trends the mainstream wants and you try and find anime to match it and make it stick to a brand.

But when it comes to smaller anime - less than 20 episodes - it needs to be branded in this country period. As much as TV gaf will say "the TV business will change blah, blah blah" it isnt moving to the net because of the internets cred problem. Nobody fucking belives anybody on the net - so how the fuck we gonna believe anything on Hulu...So Crunchyroll will only make what it will ever make. Same with Sentai. Same with Funi. But if we had 3 or 4 anime blocks with its own branding, promotion and brocast production alongside the North American series - the ad men will come back - not in the same way but it will help offset costs.

There is also a audiance and perspction problem and this can be soved by actually doing reseach into other audiances. The biggest joke in the history of this industry is that there is a huge amount of urban audiance for anime but Funi and the rest has continued to treat them the same way the GOP treated the rest of the country during the election. Cant do that anymore because demographics are changing BIG TIME. And when the music industry in the US is using the same Japanese tropes that J-Pop and Anime share the dubbers are gonna get left out in the cold when they keep saying online, online, online.

So the first thing that needs to be done is that Funi and the rest need to make a choice. If they dont spend the money on quality control then its time to sell to a hollywood buyer or shut down, end of story.

if they are willing to spend on quality control - then they need to convince the Japanese that they need to see both ends of the story - they cant choose VAs because even though there is universal ideals - there isnt universal voices. They may have to actually have to get a music division because of how much money it cost for rights. They gonna have to actually talk to the ad men and have them be apart of the process of the dubbing. (Not marketers, advertising agents - big diffence) They need to sell the Blu-Ray's as box sets and for internet to act like the way the US does it. They need to stop being so guarded when it comes to the audiance - and create something they did for the Obama campain - im apart of the product but the product doesnt control your life. That sort of thing wins elections and its the sort of idea that could save the business from being forgotten.

Now this post I like because you explained it pretty well. You make some good points when you arent being super vague. I like your perspective on things.

 

[Novid]

I think a lot of problems people have with Shakespeare is that they see his worst work in the worst way in high school. You have to read the play, which is not the optimal way to go, or see a shitty film adaptation. It also tends to be stuff like Rome and Juliet, which while good, is one of his lesser works IMO. Nothing beats a good, live performance of Shakespeare.

he has two great plays. Midsummer Nights Dream and Corilianus. the rest are good to muddled. Im more in tune with the passion play era...

 

[yami4ct]

Lol, seems I've caused quite a stir with my Elfin Lied inquiry. Or has this happened before?

I'll take part of the credit. I think I insisted on keeping the discussion going. I knew if someone ever mentioned Elfen Lied, this would be bound to happen.

You're dodging the point. Why did the creators put in a story element that involves a nubile young woman regressing mentally to the point of using baby talk and peeing herself?

The baby talk is one dumb thing, but it's a dumb thing I can sort of accept with a groan. The peeing herself was the part that was over the line. It's just so exploitative and dumb.

 

[Crash Station]

You're dodging the point. Why did the creators put in a story element that involves a nubile young woman regressing mentally to the point of using baby talk and peeing herself?

We're just going back to the Jekyl and Hyde thing here. That and being housed by one of your

Spoiler

previous victims

makes for an interesting plot.

They take the idea of returning to innocence much further in the manga and the conflict that brings once the main personality shows itself.

 

[Branduil]

We're just going back to the Jekyl and Hyde thing here. That and being housed by one of your

Spoiler

previous victims

makes for an interesting plot.

They take the idea of returning to innocence much further in the manga and the conflict that brings once the main personality shows itself.

There's a big difference between how Jekyll and Hyde treats innocence versus Elfen Lied. You can't just ignore that.

 

[cajunator]

instantaneously and back and forth? yeah fucking right
its stupid and there is no way around that

Yes the show can be stupid sometimes. Most anime has stupid things in it. In fact the vast majority of them do. there is very little in anime that can happen that way in real life. Its FANTASY. Thats the point of it.
and like someone said shooting a .50 caliber at a girl, knocking off only her helmet and causing that level of brain trauma without killing her is super unrealistic but again its a story about girls born with a psychic ability to kill with invisible arms. how fucking realistic is it really going to ever be?

 

[Crash Station]

Lol, seems I've caused quite a stir with my Elfin Lied inquiry. Or has this happened before?

We have Elfen Lied arguments monthly.

 

[yami4ct]

he has two great plays. Midsummer Nights Dream and Corilianus. the rest are good to muddled. Im more in tune with the passion play era...

Midsummer Nights Dream is great, but I think Shakespeare comedies are death to high school students. In the modern era, you really sort of have to work at it to really understand why it's funny. Most high school students don't care enough to try, so it blows right past them.

 

[Uchip]

Its FANTASY. Thats the point of it.

fantasy doesn't need to be mind numbingly stupid
"its fantasy" doesn't excuse shoddy writing

that said, I did really like a few elements of elfen lied, such as the vectors and the idea of a next evolution (even though it didnt make much sense)

 

[yami4ct]

Look at what's happened. We turned a conversation about Elfen Lied, the schlockiest of schlock, into parallel conversations about Shakespeare and Elfen Lied. And people think we're just uneducated nerds.

 

[Crash Station]

There's a big difference between how Jekyll and Hyde treats innocence versus Elfen Lied. You can't just ignore that.

Not arguing there. It's just taken much further in Elfen Lied, which I don't really see as a bad thing. Jekyll and Hyde is more an internal struggle thing while Lucy/Nyu/

Spoiler

Kaede

brings the conflict to other people because she can't be independent as Nyu.

 

[Soma]

You're dodging the point. Why did the creators put in a story element that involves a nubile young woman regressing mentally to the point of using baby talk and peeing herself?

If Dr. Jekyll was a mentally impaired girl who liked to walk around naked and piss herself.

Come on don't you remember the part in Romeo & Juliet where Juliet pees on herself and says "uguuuu"?

Yeah it depends on how big someone's fetish for retarded girls who wet themselves is.

You have quite the fixation with urine.

Getting kinda worried about you man.

 

[yami4ct]

You have quite the fixation with urine.

Getting kinda worried about you man.

To be fair, I think that's the point of "You know what, fuck this show" for a lot of people. It certainly sticks out as that moment for me.

 

[curlyfriski]

Im more in tune with the passion play era...

Lol. From reading your posts, passion plays seem right up your alley.

 

[Hitokage]

Shakespeare did more than write a bunch of plays. He also invented many words that continue to be used, or at least provided the first examples of them we can cite.

 

[firehawk12]

Shakespeare did more than write a bunch of plays. He also invented many words that continue to be used, or at least provided the first examples of them we can cite.

I don't know why, but the first example of which that always comes to mind is "assassinate".

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Midsummer Nights Dream is great, but I think Shakespeare comedies are death to high school students. In the modern era, you really sort of have to work at it to really understand why it's funny. Most high school students don't care enough to try, so it blows right past them.

I think this is maybe true with Taming of the Shrew or Much Ado About Nothing, but it's pretty hard to miss what exactly makes Midsummer Nights Dream funny. It's probably the safest choice for exposing someone to one of his comedies, even if I don't think it's the best.

There's enough humor that doesn't really even rely on you necessarily understanding the language as long as you have a vague idea of what is going on in a given scene. I read it for the first time in 7th grade and I remember most of my class getting and appreciating it. Most of the other comedies do run into issues where there's a lot of wordplay that might be missed on someone who doesn't want to engage with it, though.

Shakespeare did more than write a bunch of plays. He also invented many words that continue to be used, or at least provided the first examples of them we can cite.

This is also true. It's pretty much impossible to overstate the importance of Shakespeare, because of what a monumental effect he has had on the English language and the way it is used.

 

[cajunator]

fantasy doesn't need to be mind numbingly stupid
"its fantasy" doesn't excuse shoddy writing

that said, I did really like a few elements of elfen lied, such as the vectors and the idea of a next evolution (even though it didnt make much sense)

Im not saying its a masterpiece, just that I like the series. I recognize that it has issues, and some of them are severe ones. but it didnt change the fact that I liked it overall and that many others do as well. We arent simple minded just because we like it, nor are we incapable of critiquing something.
See, what gets to me is not people disliking something, but to suggest that people who do like it are somehow inferior, which is what this thread does a lot is over the line. thats the thing I see way too often here. I dont care if people want to critique osmething and point out its flaws. thats fine. But dont look down on others because they happen to like lower brow entertainment. Thats all this stuff is entertainment. you like the entertainment or you dont, but there is no quantifiable reason why someone absolutely cannot enjoy something. We all like things for different reasons.
Like I hate Gantz and Gasaraki. I find them stupid. some people enjoy these and have valid reasons. I dont look down on people who enjoy SAO. I can call it stupid all day, but I dont think the people watching it are intellectually inferior or incapable of critique.
This isnt some kind of prestigious university, this is a thread about anime and enjoying the various aspects of it, whether it be because of moe or the stories or the narrative quality. they are all reasons we like anime and talk about it so much. None of the reasons are better than the others.

 

[curlyfriski]

Shakespeare did more than write a bunch of plays. He also invented many words that continue to be used, or at least provided the first examples of them we can cite.

Its amazing how many turns of phrase that still get used today originate from Shakespeare.

 

[Branduil]

You have quite the fixation with urine.

Getting kinda worried about you man.

It's kind of hard to miss when someone just throws their porn into a show.

 

[Uchip]

Im not saying its a masterpiece, just that I like the series. I recognize that it has issues, and some of them are severe ones. but it didnt change the fact that I liked it overall and that many others do as well. We arent simple minded just because we like it, nor are we incapable of critiquing something.
See, what gets to me is not people disliking something, but to suggest that people who do like it are somehow inferior, which is what this thread does a lot is over the line. thats the thing I see way too often here. I dont care if people want to critique osmething and point out its flaws. thats fine. But dont look down on others because they happen to like lower brow entertainment. Thats all this stuff is entertainment. you like the entertainment or you dont, but there is no quantifiable reason why someone absolutely cannot enjoy something. We all like things for different reasons.
Like I hate Gantz and Gasaraki. I find them stupid. some people enjoy these and have valid reasons. I dont look down on people who enjoy SAO. I can call it stupid all day, but I dont think the people watching it are intellectually inferior or incapable of critique.
This isnt some kind of prestigious university, this is a thread about anime and enjoying the various aspects of it, whether it be because of moe or the stories or the narrative quality. they are all reasons we like anime and talk about it so much. None of the reasons are better than the others.

nobody was persecuting anyone
feel free to provide a quote

 

[Crash Station]

Im not saying its a masterpiece, just that I like the series. I recognize that it has issues, and some of them are severe ones. but it didnt change the fact that I liked it overall and that many others do as well. We arent simple minded just because we like it, nor are we incapable of critiquing something.
See, what gets to me is not people disliking something, but to suggest that people who do like it are somehow inferior, which is what this thread does a lot is over the line. thats the thing I see way too often here. I dont care if people want to critique osmething and point out its flaws. thats fine. But dont look down on others because they happen to like lower brow entertainment. Thats all this stuff is entertainment. you like the entertainment or you dont, but there is no quantifiable reason why someone absolutely cannot enjoy something. We all like things for different reasons.
Like I hate Gantz and Gasaraki. I find them stupid. some people enjoy these and have valid reasons. I dont look down on people who enjoy SAO. I can call it stupid all day, but I dont think the people watching it are intellectually inferior or incapable of critique.
This isnt some kind of prestigious university, this is a thread about anime and enjoying the various aspects of it, whether it be because of moe or the stories or the narrative quality. they are all reasons we like anime and talk about it so much. None of the reasons are better than the others.

Quiet, philistine!

 

[yami4ct]

I think this is maybe true with Taming of the Shrew or Much Ado About Nothing, but it's pretty hard to miss what exactly makes Midsummer Nights Dream funny. It's probably the safest choice for exposing someone to one of his comedies, even if I don't think it's the best.

There's enough humor that doesn't really even rely on you necessarily understanding the language as long as you have a vague idea of what is going on in a given scene. I read it for the first time in 7th grade and I remember most of my class getting and appreciating it. Most of the other comedies do run into issues where there's a lot of wordplay that might be missed on someone who doesn't want to engage with it, though.



This is also true. It's pretty much impossible to overstate the importance of Shakespeare, because of what a monumental effect he has had on the English language and the way it is used.

I remember reading Midsummer in high school and really engauging with and enjoying it in high school while the rest of the class just missed everything. Maybe my class was just dumb.

 

[firehawk12]

I think this is maybe true with Taming of the Shrew or Much Ado About Nothing, but it's pretty hard to miss what exactly makes Midsummer Nights Dream funny. It's probably the safest choice for exposing someone to one of his comedies, even if I don't think it's the best.

There's enough humor that doesn't really even rely on you necessarily understanding the language as long as you have a vague idea of what is going on in a given scene. I read it for the first time in 7th grade and I remember most of my class getting and appreciating it. Most of the other comedies do run into issues where there's a lot of wordplay that might be missed on someone who doesn't want to engage with it, though.

Well, there's also the fact that when we hear comedy it's not actually what people think of as comedy. In fact, Comedy of Errors is probably the most accessible in terms of what we think of as "comedy" these days.

 

[OceanBlue]

I don't get it. Is Elfen Lied bad and it has fetishizing, or is it bad because it has fetishizing?

 

[firehawk12]

Its amazing how many turns of phrase that still get used today originate from Shakespeare.

My favourite is when Romeo says "My heart doth ponder the utterance of HNNNGGGGG" when he first sees Juliet.

I remember reading Midsummer in high school and really engauging with and enjoying its hike the rest of the class just missed everything. Maybe my class was just dumb.

I hated Midsummer the first time I was forced to watch a video of it. I still remember a dude with a shitty looking donkey head walking around as if nothing was amiss. lol

 

[cajunator]

nobody was persecuting anyone
feel free to provide a quote

Heres an example.

That's true of any show, let's not be reductionistic. The majority of people who like Elfen Lied do not know how to critically evaluate a show.

Case in point:

what the hell does liking a particular show have to do with their ability to critique something? thats ridiculous and reductionist.

 

[yami4ct]

I don't get it. Is Elfen Lied bad and it has fetishizing, or is it bad because it has fetishizing?

I would say it's bad and fetishistic. Even without the fetishism it would be bad. It's just that with it, it became offensive to me.

 

[darkside31337]

I think I'd rather have the gif spam right about now.

Also Elfen Lied is terrible.

 

[Branduil]

I don't get it. Is Elfen Lied bad and it has fetishizing, or is it bad because it has fetishizing?

There's no one reason why it's bad. It's a toxic combination of bad writing, exploitive characterization and visuals, and more faux-depth than you can shake an invisible arm at.

what the hell does liking a particular show have to do with their ability to critique something? thats ridiculous and reductionist.

I stand by my statement that if you ask the majority of Elfen Lied fans to explain why the show is good they will be unable to do so in a coherent and consistent way.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I think I'd rather have the gif spam right about now.

Also Elfen Lied is terrible.

This thread's gif spam will be a competition between Elfen Lied gifs and images from Kenneth Branagh's Shakespeare films, judging by the way the thread is going.

 

[yami4ct]

This thread's gif spam will be a competition between Elfen Lied gifs and images from Kenneth Branagh's Shakespeare films, judging by the way the thread is going.

Oh god yes. I need to get some Shakespeare gifs ready.

 

[Maedhros]

JOOOOOOOJO 08

YARE YARE DA!

MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA!

WRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRY!

Holy shit, Jojo is a fucking BRO and THE GENTLEMAN! So pure, so strong!

This anime man... we don't deserve it. T_T

IT'S FUCKING PERFECT!

 

[Crash Station]

I stand by my statement that if you ask the majority of Elfen Lied fans to explain why the show is good they will be unable to do so in a coherent and consistent way.

I think you can say that about a lot of things, even stuff often considered "high-brow". Fanbases are dumb.

 

[yami4ct]

I think you can say that about a lot of things, even stuff often considered "high-brow". Fanbases are dumb.

Case and point. I bet a lot of SAO fans think that show's really smart.

 

[Narag]

Case and point. I bet a lot of SAO fans think that show's really smart.

http://kotaku.com/5947171/sword-art...nime-ive-seen-in-years-and-its-only-half+done

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Case and point. I bet a lot of SAO fans think that show's really smart.

The other day, I was talking to some folks who were trying to convince me that I should watch that show. I refused based on all the evidence I've seen on GAF about it's 'quality', and they told me that I'm listening to the wrong people and that it's actually an amazing show that everyone needs to watch.

 

[Maedhros]

I stand by my statement that if you ask the majority of Elfen Lied fans to explain why the show is good they will be unable to do so in a coherent and consistent way.

And why the hell people need to explain why they like in a consistent way? Some people just enjoy things without big reasons. They're not writers.

To me, Elfen Lied was an entry anime. It was the drive for me to actually like anime. If it wasn't it, I doubt I would even be posting here. I don't really care if the animation had bad drawings, no sakugas, 20 FPS, shitty story, characters whatever. I just... enjoyed it as my first, genuine anime.

 

[OceanBlue]

http://kotaku.com/5947171/sword-art...nime-ive-seen-in-years-and-its-only-half+done

I wonder what he thinks of the current episodes.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

http://kotaku.com/5947171/sword-art...nime-ive-seen-in-years-and-its-only-half+done

"Twelve episodes in, it is the smartest anime I have seen in years—even including the recent Lupin III."

Okay. Well, comparing it to the Fujiko show doesn't exactly set a pretty high bar to leap over, does it?

 

[Crash Station]

The other day, I was talking to some folks who were trying to convince me that I should watch that show. I refused based on all the evidence I've seen on GAF about it's 'quality', and they told me that I'm listening to the wrong people and that it's actually an amazing show that everyone needs to watch.

In some cases, listening to animegaf is a bad idea. You should decide for yourself if it's worth it or not.

At least we all mostly agree it has good production values. Nitpicky story or not, it's damn pretty.

 

[Jarmel]

I wonder what he thinks of the current episodes.

The tentacle obviously represents the probing of our patriarchal society on strong females.

 

[Uchip]

And why the hell people need to explain why they like in a consistent way?

you guys are taking this far too personally

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

In some cases, listening to animegaf is a bad idea. You should decide for yourself if it's worth it or not.

At least we all mostly agree it has good production values. Nitpicky story or not, it's damn pretty.

Oh, I can agree on that, but you can at least get a good idea on something based on what people are saying about something (and which people are saying it). And, what I've seen doesn't really convince me that there's anything worth watching it. I have enough stuff that I'm legitimately interested in that I don't need to mess around with something that half of the people just seem to be watching for trainwreck purposes.