FAST Racing NEO |OT| When Everyone's Fast, No One Will Be

I don't think it's the objects, it is motion blur which is rendered at half-res.
https://twitter.com/ShinenGames/status/607830799497490433?s=09

Digital Foundry might shed some light if they'll do an article.
I'm too curious on what tricks Shin'en used.

That explains the incredible speed sensastion in this game. FAST Racing Neo is really the fastest of them all.

And the closest thing you get to a new F-Zero/WipEout. I'm really blown away, this game is so good!

I hope Shin'en got another one coming for NX, that would be a killer app for me.

Edit: Yeah, I would like to read a tech analysis from DF, dark10x? ;-)
 
I see aliasing everywhere and can definitely tell that it is half res on my 27-inch 1080p monitor. My head is about 3.5 feet back. It's disappointing come from playing Wipeout HD on the same display. I don't expect an indie dev on a Nintendo machine to quite match a top PS3 first party effort but the aliasing really stands out.
 
Probably a minor thing but I really dislike how they placed phase pads right in the middle of some turns.

Unless you have alien hands it makes leaning and phase switching really hard (if not impossible) at the same time.
I have a finger on each of the 4 shoulder buttons so I haven't had issues with that sort of thing.

But I also have huge hands. It might not be so comfortable for people with smaller hands.
 
Just played like an hour or so. Is Shin'en familiar with dark arts? How the fuck does this run on Wii U and at that frame rate, especially considering it was made by 5 people. What the hell.

Game is also very challenging, gameplay is great and i'm loving the track design. Great job Shin'en, really.

I see aliasing everywhere and can definitely tell that it is half res on my 27-inch 1080p monitor. My head is about 3.5 feet back. It's disappointing come from playing Wipeout HD on the same display. I don't expect an indie dev on a Nintendo machine to quite match a top PS3 first party effort but the aliasing really stands out.
You know, aliasing isn't the only thing that defines graphics. And not to be that guy, but Fast Racing Neo is way ahead Wipeout in pretty much everything aside resolution (when it doesn't scale down in WO).

That being said, at the beginning of a race i can understand, but i absolutely don't know how you're seeing it during gameplay at that speed. Try playing it on a TV or at least lowering sharpness, monitors don't upscale games so of course a 720p title will look worse.
 
Yeah I notice jaggies briefly at the start of the race, and then never again.

Actually after each track my eyes are watering and I have to close them during the load time. Can't blink for an instant.
 
Holy shit, just got the game and it's fantastic.

Fuck the controls, though. Please, tell me that will be addressed in a patch. How can games not allow for remapping controller configuration?
 
I played this on my 120 inch projector screen. Good lord the jaggies.

At this point I'm not even sure it's full 1280 x 720p.
 
When a game is clean like Zelda or Mario on wiiu it's very nice but even on Mario kart the aliasing was a bit annoying but nothing like Fast. Really distracting here and since the game is fast the moving edges are acting like crazy



Long time I didn't see such aliasing. I'll stop speaking about this as it is as it is

Yeesh! What kind of TV do you have? Yah there are aliasing issues but I rather have 60fps than good quality IQ on this game.
 
Juat had a full console crash when trying online. I noticed a few other people saying they had issues when playing online, but has anyone else here had to hard reset?
 
Yeah I notice jaggies briefly at the start of the race, and then never again.

Actually after each track my eyes are watering and I have to close them during the load time. Can't blink for an instant.

They're extremely noticeable for me for some reason.

...PC gaming problems?
 
That being said, at the beginning of a race i can understand, but i absolutely don't know how you're seeing it during gameplay at that speed. Try playing it on a TV or at least lowering sharpness, monitors don't upscale games so of course a 720p title will look worse.

I have used and use this display for every WiiU game and most PS3 games I have played, and for both consoles they are 720p. This criticism of the extreme levels of aliasing isn't coming from nowhere. It is not only apparent at the start of a race because you must look ahead in the distance at upcoming objects.

The player looks ahead to dodge fans, for example.

wiiu_screenshot_tv_01cwk74.jpg


That's a direct screen grab, not a picture. It's very noticeable. The fans, the course, the other ships are very pixelated / aliased. I see it in motion just fine so I feel the screen grab is fair play. In fact the screen grab arguably doesn't do it justice because shimmering stands out in motion.

You know, aliasing isn't the only thing that defines graphics. And not to be that guy, but Fast Racing Neo is way ahead Wipeout in pretty much everything aside resolution (when it doesn't scale down in WO).

Resolution and aliasing are very important to me and cannot be down played. Wipeout HD is far more visually appealing to me because of this. Textures, effects, lighting, etc. always age over time and minute differences of visual fidelity don't matter as much as overt shimmering jaggies.

I'd gladly have taken a reasonable reduction "pretty much everything aside resolution" in order to implement MSAA or a higher resolution. Or as another option, just apply some post processing AA methods that should incur little, if any, appreciable penalty. It really appears that this title is hardly using any form of anti-aliasing whatsoever.
 
I have used and use this display for every WiiU game and most PS3 games I have played, and for both consoles they are 720p. This criticism of the extreme levels of aliasing isn't coming from nowhere. It is not only apparent at the start of a race because you must look ahead in the distance at upcoming objects.

The player looks ahead to dodge fans, for example.

wiiu_screenshot_tv_01cwk74.jpg


That's a direct screen grab, not a picture. It's very noticeable. The fans, the course, the other ships are very pixelated / aliased. I see it in motion just fine so I feel the screen grab is fair play. In fact the screen grab arguably doesn't do it justice because shimmering stands out in motion.



Resolution and aliasing are very important to me and cannot be down played. Wipeout HD is far more visually appealing to me because of this. Textures, effects, lighting, etc. always age over time and minute differences of visual fidelity don't matter as much as overt shimmering jaggies.

I'd gladly have taken a reasonable reduction "pretty much everything aside resolution" in order to implement MSAA or a higher resolution. Or as another option, just apply some post processing AA methods that should incur little, if any, appreciable penalty. It really appears that this title is hardly using any form of anti-aliasing whatsoever.

I think the only real advantage fast racing has is lighting, everything in wipeout hd looks better, it's pushing way more detail, in its tracks, at 1080p most of the time with good aa, vs maybe sub hd with no AA, it's no contest which game looks better.
 
I think the only real advantage fast racing has is lighting, everything in wipeout hd looks better, it's pushing way more detail, in its tracks, at 1080p most of the time with good aa, vs maybe sub hd with no AA, it's no contest which game looks better.

I'd forgotton how good Wipeout HD looked on PS3. And yes. You are right. It does look better.

Given the level of track detail on FRN. It really should be 1080p.
 
It's noticeably jagged at the starting line, but once things get going I cannot even begin to notice it. It's too fast, and everything is already being blurred on purpose.

Don't see any reason to complain though. Small team, small budget, etc.
 
Resolution and aliasing are very important to me and cannot be down played. Wipeout HD is far more visually appealing to me because of this. Textures, effects, lighting, etc. always age over time and minute differences of visual fidelity don't matter as much as overt shimmering jaggies.

I'd gladly have taken a reasonable reduction "pretty much everything aside resolution" in order to implement MSAA or a higher resolution. Or as another option, just apply some post processing AA methods that should incur little, if any, appreciable penalty. It really appears that this title is hardly using any form of anti-aliasing whatsoever.

Oh i agree that they could've done something less to use at least some post AA, never said it was perfect. I actually don't understand why they didn't use it in the first place - i used to say the same thing when Mario Kart 8 came out: why not use some filter that takes such a small performance hit?

From what i know MSAA is very demanding in deferred rendering engines, but a custom post AA solution shouldn't be at all even on Wii U level of hardware. Then maybe i'm wrong about this, and other people who know more about it can correct me.

Anyway this is Wipeout HD

http://images.eurogamer.net/articles//a/5/3/5/1/0/9/wipeout1920_2.jpg.jpg
http://images.playfrance.com/5/4789/zoom/1669.jpg
http://images.eurogamer.net/articles//a/5/3/5/1/0/9/wipeout1920_1.jpg.jpg
http://www.vgnetwork.it/images/Wipeout_HD/wipeout-hd-03.jpg
http://images.psxextreme.com/screenshots/ps3_wipeout/ps3_wipeout_01.jpg

I know some of those screens are 720p but i'm trying to point out something else here: look at how poor textures, lighting, materials, shadows and effects are compared to what Fast is doing. Geometries in WO are extremely simple as well (not that FNR is a polygonal monster, but there's obviously a lot more going on in it). That's not some "minute difference in visual fidelity", it's actually a pretty big leap. Then of course Wipeout has good image quality, way better than FNR, but personally i'd take the improvements in everything else since the game's poor iq doesn't seem to affect me the same way it does to you. To each their own i guess.

That being said, /OT for me.

It's noticeably jagged at the starting line, but once things get going I cannot even begin to notice it. It's too fast, and everything is already being blurred on purpose.

Don't see any reason to complain though. Small team, small budget, etc.

Same thing for me, high speed+motion blur seem to hide jaggies pretty well. Then again i have a 40" tv so i'm not sitting very close to it, that might help too. Still think Shin'en made an incredible job here all around.
 
One of the best futuristic racing games in recent memory! 16 challenging tracks at about a 1gb of memory for 14.99!!! Shin'en is no joke!
 
Good idea: playing Mario Kart 8.
Bad idea: playing Mario Kart 8 after playing FAST Racing NEO.

It's like MK8 is running in slowmo or something.
 
To each their own i guess.

Yes, it's that simple. I'll take reduced graphically fidelity for better AA/res, and because of that I find those Wipeout HD pics far more appealing. But it's fair that some people don't weigh it as importantly.
 
I said it in another thread and some gaffers took me by mad, but the truth I come up with after some pixel counting motivated by how aliased this game looks is that it runs at 640x720.

Also interesting is the pixel shifting technique they are using. If you look at a jagged edge when the game is still (before starting the race with the ships stopped) you can see how some pixels "blink" very fast. This means that for the given primitive rendered, in one frame these pixels are rasterized and in the following one they are not, this means they are playing with the rasterizer by doing very smart offsets of the transformed vertexs coordinates in the vertex shaders.

Waiting for DF analysis to see what else they find out.
 
Anyone know if there is a way to initiate a smooth landing from a big jump? Always seem to take a massive bump everytime I land, and have no idea if there is a way to avoid that
 
It's noticeably jagged at the starting line, but once things get going I cannot even begin to notice it. It's too fast, and everything is already being blurred on purpose.

Don't see any reason to complain though. Small team, small budget, etc.

Yep. It's a great game for the money.
 
Anyone know if there is a way to initiate a smooth landing from a big jump? Always seem to take a massive bump everytime I land, and have no idea if there is a way to avoid that

I've been trying to figure it out too, and I'm beginning to think it's just the way it is. I've tried boosting right as I land, boosting before I land, pulling back like an airplane to try to "slow down". So far nothing is working.

Seems like it slows you down, which implies that it's bad, but it also seems like it's the way it's supposed to be, and since everyone has to deal with it it's not that bad.

But I do hope something can be figured out.
 
Aim your ship's nose downwards as much as you can while still making the jump but then level out at the last moment. If you don't line yourself up with the road then you can suffer a huge speed drop as you land.

Also I think lighter vehicles land more smoothly but I could just be seeing things.
 
Probably a minor thing but I really dislike how they placed phase pads right in the middle of some turns.

Unless you have alien hands it makes leaning and phase switching really hard (if not impossible) at the same time.

Use index on button, middle on trigger. Problem solved?
Aim your ship's nose downwards as much as you can while still making the jump but then level out at the last moment. If you don't line yourself up with the road then you can suffer a huge speed drop as you land.

Also I think lighter vehicles land more smoothly but I could just be seeing things.

May just be compensation for being in the air longer where you can't really accelerate.
 
Good idea: playing Mario Kart 8.
Bad idea: playing Mario Kart 8 after playing FAST Racing NEO.

It's like MK8 is running in slowmo or something.

I did that today.

Even at 200cc, it was slow(though I still ran into some "walls").

FAST Racing Neo has ruined other games for me!!!(just don't make a thread)
 
Played another session tonight and I jumped also online this time. The game is good. It feels so good when playing. If you manage to chain boosts and right colors it is godly. The online ran smoothly for me now.

I did surprisingly well competing online, but a lot of people were quite new there (going by the number of points).

The first cup has over 12000 records, so I guess it sold pretty well in the first two days.
 
That rain level, my god...if you are gonna sit here and bitch about slight graphical issues lol have fun, others will be playing a fantastic game
 
Wipeout HD vs Fast Racing Neo dick measuring OT
 
Oh i agree that they could've done something less to use at least some post AA, never said it was perfect. I actually don't understand why they didn't use it in the first place - i used to say the same thing when Mario Kart 8 came out: why not use some filter that takes such a small performance hit?

From what i know MSAA is very demanding in deferred rendering engines, but a custom post AA solution shouldn't be at all even on Wii U level of hardware. Then maybe i'm wrong about this, and other people who know more about it can correct me.

Anyway this is Wipeout HD

http://images.eurogamer.net/articles//a/5/3/5/1/0/9/wipeout1920_2.jpg.jpg
http://images.playfrance.com/5/4789/zoom/1669.jpg
http://images.eurogamer.net/articles//a/5/3/5/1/0/9/wipeout1920_1.jpg.jpg
http://www.vgnetwork.it/images/Wipeout_HD/wipeout-hd-03.jpg
http://images.psxextreme.com/screenshots/ps3_wipeout/ps3_wipeout_01.jpg

I know some of those screens are 720p but i'm trying to point out something else here: look at how poor textures, lighting, materials, shadows and effects are compared to what Fast is doing. Geometries in WO are extremely simple as well (not that FNR is a polygonal monster, but there's obviously a lot more going on in it). That's not some "minute difference in visual fidelity", it's actually a pretty big leap. Then of course Wipeout has good image quality, way better than FNR, but personally i'd take the improvements in everything else since the game's poor iq doesn't seem to affect me the same way it does to you. To each their own i guess.

That being said, /OT for me.



Same thing for me, high speed+motion blur seem to hide jaggies pretty well. Then again i have a 40" tv so i'm not sitting very close to it, that might help too. Still think Shin'en made an incredible job here all around.

i'm not seeing what you're talking about, fast racing neo, has basically nothing going on when it comes to track detail.

L2LKl3.jpg


wiiu_screenshot_tv_01mcumh.jpg


3198.jpg
 
Why are people even comparing a title funded by Sony to a game made by an indie studio comprised of only a handful of people? Who gives a damn. FRN is damn fun.
 
That little graph that shows where you rank next to each cup icon is a cool feature.

Even though I'm getting worse at the game I'm starting to enjoy it more! Just trying to get the timing for the air brakes down. Seems to work best before actually turning then letting go about halfway through.
 
Why are people even comparing a title funded by Sony to a game made by an indie studio comprised of only a handful of people? Who gives a damn. FRN is damn fun.

They just like feeding the troll that is ninjablade.

Also I suggest some people should fiddle with the TV mode they use. On my samsung the game looks very jaggy on the dynamic settings, but once I switch over to my movie settings (with recommended tweaks from avforums) then it looks a lot better, especially the colour temperature (tweak you TV's colours to look like the gamepads)
 
Half the time I try to get in online it says the servers busy. What happened to WiiU's poor software sales?
 
Why are people even comparing a title funded by Sony to a game made by an indie studio comprised of only a handful of people? Who gives a damn. FRN is damn fun.

We discuss many things in an OT. I have over a dozen posts in this thread and most are not about the visuals. I didn't expect it to match WHD, but I'd vastly have preferred if they went for the same resolution and resolution reduction of WHD even if it meant the visuals were markedly lower detailed. The level of aliasing in the game is an affront to my eyes.

It's always fair to critique a choice the developers made, and they chose what appears to be 720p or/and possibly 640x720 at times with no AA in sight, instead relying on motion blur. I find that the motion blur really helps in the vicinity of your racer, but when I am looking into the distance at upcoming objects I cannot help but notice massive shimmer, aliasing, and pixelization.

I think the game would be better met with modeling the visuals after Sony's effort even if they couldn't match the fidelity. It's not like the alternative for reduced aliasing is F-Zero X (N64) downsampled from 4K - there had to have been an option for an acceptable combination of fidelity and AA (see many other 720p WiiU/PS3 games that don't prominently display jaggies). The game is now forever aliased, pixelated, and shimmering while Wipeout HD still remains a treat for the eyes while I play because of the 1080 choice.
 
Half the time I try to get in online it says the servers busy. What happened to WiiU's poor software sales?

This is a Shin'en game. In terms of appeal, they are very well known by people who have gamed with Nintendo since eons past.

Also I think you may be quoting an article/referencing one that has nothing to do with Nintendo. (So not sure if /s.)
 
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