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[King of Foxes]

Source is fox because it was the first result in my google

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/2...ver-mattress-in-trash-bin-video-released.html

Two men were arrested in Texas after they allegedly shot and killed a man over a dispute about garbage in an alleyway and a newly released video shows the deadly encounter.

John Miller, 67, and his son, 31-year-old Michael Miller, were arrested after Aaron Howard, 37, was fatally shot on Sept. 1, the Abilene Police Department announced.

The neighbors had been arguing about the trash in the alleyway for days before the fatal shooting, police said. The day of Howard's death, John Miller had gone to throw the garbage out before the situation escalated.
Both sides appear to be slinging threats and vulgar language at each other, while both the Millers are seen armed with firearms.

"You're not gonna shoot my husband," Box is heard saying, while Howard shouts: "Shoot me!"

At least four gunshots are then heard on the video while Michael Miller is captured aiming his shotgun.

Video of the incident, not sure how long it will stay up

Spoiler

So the whole thing is crazy. Im not removing blame from the men with guns but seriously, who the fuck attacks two guys with guns with a baseball bat and expects to survive?

 

[Papa]

I think it’s safe to say that everyone involved in this is at the bottom of the gene pool. Damn, the wife’s screams at the end were harrowing though.

 

[SirKicksalot]

 

[thief183]

Now... what the sistem should do with people like these? Prison and we pay for them. Death sentence that is the answer.

 

[cryptoadam]

Now... what the sistem should do with people like these? Prison and we pay for them. Death sentence that is the answer.

Castration so they can't reproduce and keep their line of stupidy going.

Jesus how stupid are all of these people to bring weapons over a F'n Mattress. They do realize they could just wait for him to leave and put the mattress across the street right?

 

[Thurible]

Now... what the sistem should do with people like these? Prison and we pay for them. Death sentence that is the answer.

Personally, as a catholic I believe the death penalty is almost never the solution as I believe all human life is sacred, even scum that kills a person in front of their family. That being said, I hope these men are tried to the fullest extent of the law and possibly see life. Hopefully the prison will do it's job and correct these individuals, as of right now they don't deserve to interact in a civilized society.

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

Fuck, the world is fucking crazy. I echo the death sentence here, if they can kill a guy for something as simple as garbage on the sideway, they can kill others for WAAAAY less or more.

 

[RokkanStoned]

"You're not gonna shoot my husband," Box is heard saying, while Howard shouts: "Shoot me!"

Lol, wtf. Reminds me a bit of:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/14/homicide-victim-what-are-you-going-to-do-shoot-me/

Him being unarmed and them being two people with guns, I'd like to at least imagine that they're going to get charged and punished for this. It's basically an execution, unless more details come out.

 

[Helios]

Lol, wtf. Reminds me a bit of:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/14/homicide-victim-what-are-you-going-to-do-shoot-me/

That's the first thing I thought of as well.

 

[J-Roderton]

Horrible. Her screaming at the end is just hard to watch.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Lock their asses up. This isn't the wild west.

 

[petran79]

The worst thing is that the victim would do the exact same thing if he had a gun

 

[Basketball]

Fucked up but holy fuck the now dead father is a fucking retard. They have weapons and said they will shoot .... continues to threaten/provoke. Sorry for his kids for having such an idiot dad and sadness that will follow for them. Wife is stupid as well for not calming things down.

 

[Sub_Level]

DMC taunt.

 

[octiny]

Texas....where you can murder someone on video and get out on bond for $25k (technically 10% so only $2,500 ).

 

[Duallusion]

I don't want to seem insensitive about the tragedy at hand because it's quite harrowing to watch but that just looks so... quintessentially American.

 

[Endless Fluff]

What I found most concerning and which is left out of OP is

Both John and Michael Miller were arrested and charged with murder, police said. They were reportedly released after posting $25,000 bail.

WTF?

The clip is horrifying to watch. I feel sorry for the wife, but also what the hell were they thinking? Man, they've got guns out... get the fuck outta there.

 

[lock2k]

Idiocracy at its finest.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Fucked up but holy fuck the now dead father is a fucking retard. They have weapons and said they will shoot .... continues to threaten/provoke. Sorry for his kids for having such an idiot dad and sadness that will follow for them. Wife is stupid as well for not calming things down.

Pride before the fall, sadly.

 

[Yoshi]

Lol, wtf. Reminds me a bit of:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/14/homicide-victim-what-are-you-going-to-do-shoot-me/

Him being unarmed and them being two people with guns, I'd like to at least imagine that they're going to get charged and punished for this. It's basically an execution, unless more details come out.

I cannot imagine any kind of detail emerging here that makes this anything but murder.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Papa]

Guys, the guy who got shot wasn’t unarmed. He had a baseball bat and was threatening them throughout. They warned him several times to back off but he didn’t and even encroached further. The shooters are at fault and need to be punished but the dead guy wasn’t innocent either simply by virtue of being dead.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

“Hard men” hiding behind guns. Bitches.

 

[King of Foxes]

Guys, the guy who got shot wasn’t unarmed. He had a baseball bat and was threatening them throughout. They warned him several times to back off but he didn’t and even encroached further. The shooters are at fault and need to be punished but the dead guy wasn’t innocent either simply by virtue of being dead.

Yeah I get the feeling many didnt watch the video, the man killed did everything a normal person wouldnt do when confronted by men with guns. The constant threats to kill them were insane.

The old man who shot first actually seemed to be the most level headed one there in terms of speaking, everyone else was swearing and threatening to kill each other

 

[cryptoadam]

Guys, the guy who got shot wasn’t unarmed. He had a baseball bat and was threatening them throughout. They warned him several times to back off but he didn’t and even encroached further. The shooters are at fault and need to be punished but the dead guy wasn’t innocent either simply by virtue of being dead.

I agree with this. I don't think the guy deserved to be shot, but he kept saying he is going to kill those other guys over and over. The other two were actually calm (maybe because they had guns?) and he was going off like a madman.

All this to say this should not have escalated and ended up with a dead person. I think all parties involved were stupid. Never threaten people with guns first off. And if you have a gun be the bigger person instead of resorting to a senseless murder.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Guys, the guy who got shot wasn’t unarmed. He had a baseball bat and was threatening them throughout. They warned him several times to back off but he didn’t and even encroached further. The shooters are at fault and need to be punished but the dead guy wasn’t innocent either simply by virtue of being dead.

True. I still empathize with the wife and kids. Sometimes people do not realize the reality of what a situation like this can cause, until it is too late. And you heard it set in with her real quick.

 

[Joe T.]

That looked like something straight out of Grand Theft Auto. No one in that video comes away looking like a well-adjusted member of society.

 

[Papa]

True. I still empathize with the wife and kids. Sometimes people do not realize the reality of what a situation like this can cause until it is too late. And you heard it set in with her real quick.

Yeah man, those screams were rough. Gave me shivers hearing the instant pain.

 

[Boss Mog]

After reading the headlines and seeing the gifs I was like the father and son should be on death row asap but after watching the video the other guy had a bat and kept screaming that he was gonna kill them over and over again while coming towards them, and the dad kept telling him calmly to back off. They still deserve prison, but 10 years would be enough.

 

[JimiNutz]

Horrible tradegy but the victim was really stupid and this looks like it could have easily been avoided.

I can understand why he was angry at them for brandishing weapons in front of his kids, especially over a mattress of all things, but it's probably not a good idea to repeatedly threaten to kill two armed men before walking towards them with a baseball bat. Such a waste of life...

 

[Vicetrailia]

Yeah I get the feeling many didnt watch the video, the man killed did everything a normal person wouldnt do when confronted by men with guns. The constant threats to kill them were insane.

The old man who shot first actually seemed to be the most level headed one there in terms of speaking, everyone else was swearing and threatening to kill each other

Egh if the guy was level-headed he would have tried to settle the conflict, but he just egged it on using his gun to define the terms.

 

[King of Foxes]

Egh if the guy was level-headed he would have tried to settle the conflict, but he just egged it on using his gun to define the terms.

I think the video is a good example of two sets of not forward thinking people clashing. Each side could have stopped it escalating several times but each side chose not to.

 

[Akuza89]

I hate it when it says "allegedly"... I mean who else could it have been shooting that shotgun.. and that pistol too... hmmmmm

I understand the "innocent until proven guilty" crap, but come on. people like that worry me, how stupid they are and killing someone over what is essentially nothing...

 

[Weiji]

I don’t get the problem, he’s dumping trash in their driveway. When confronted he threatens repeatedly to murder them. They are completely calm.

Video makes it unclear but I’d guess he lunges at the guy with the handgun and gets put down.

Wife should be fined for illegal dumping, no charges for self defense.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Incoming Forbes article blaming this on videogames....

 

[ipukespiders]

For fucks sakes, can we get these people some shirts?

 

[RokkanStoned]

Didn't notice the video in the OP until now, it certainly makes things look better in their favor (the father got hit and seems to be bleeding badly). Still, they certainly could've acted better in this situation and tried to get another person to come to mediate. More so it doesn't really help escalating things by bringing guns so casually. Especially since they seemed so calm, it would've better if they tried to be less confrontational about garbage being dumped.

So yeah, white trash stand-off. I find it hard to call it murder now, still... it's pretty fucked up. Personally I'd say that if you want a free gun rights, it should also apply equal amounts of responsibility in handling them. So cases like these should at least have some manner of legislation to not make these wild west stand-offs happen too easily.

 

[DS_Joost]

I'm sorry Americans. I'm fucking sorry but if I hear anyone defending gun rights anymore they go straight into the batshit crazy pile for me. There is no way you can convince me about this anymore. At all.

Guns for self defence my ass. The only defending people need is from themselves...

 

[DS_Joost]

I don’t get the problem, he’s dumping trash in their driveway. When confronted he threatens repeatedly to murder them. They are completely calm.

Video makes it unclear but I’d guess he lunges at the guy with the handgun and gets put down.

Wife should be fined for illegal dumping, no charges for self defense.

I get the problem. the guy they shot wasn't in the right either with the baseball bat and all, but they go out to negotiate this shit with GUNS. They could've walked away. Call the cops. Or maybe, maybe don't GO OUT WITH FUCKING GUNS. These people MURDER someone over dumping trash. MURDER. No courthouse, no police, no mediator. MURDER.

You are insane in trying to defend this. Holy jesus.

 

[brap]

They could've walked away

Good luck not getting your head caved in while some fat hillbilly has a bat and is threatening to kill you.

I'm sorry Americans. I'm fucking sorry but if I hear anyone defending gun rights anymore they go straight into the batshit crazy pile for me. There is no way you can convince me about this anymore. At all.

Guns for self defence my ass. The only defending people need is from themselves...

Honestly nobody cares. Worry about your own country. You're just as bad as those people who try and make an entire race look bad just for one incident.

 

[DS_Joost]

Good luck not getting your head caved in while some fat hillbilly has a bat and is threatening to kill you.


Honestly nobody cares. Worry about your own country. You're just as bad as those people who try and make an entire race look bad just for one incident.

I do, I care. My wife is from the USA. That's why.

Oh and one incident?

laughingmexicanguy.gif

 

[Breakage]

The guy in the orange shirt should have just walked away. There was absolutely no reason to get that angry over something so petty. But it seems he just could not give up the "tough guy" act in front of his wife – even though he knew he was at an extreme disadvantage against two armed guys. He was literally taunting them to shoot him.

If he sucked it up and just walked away, his wife would still have a husband.
If anything, the video demonstrates how easily life can end in an instant.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I do, I care. My wife is from the USA. That's why.

Oh and one incident?

laughingmexicanguy.gif

Your wife will now have a lesson from this video, to not threaten to kill someone holding a gun over petty trash while wielding a baseball bat in the process.

#ContextDoesStillMatter

 

[brap]

I do, I care. My wife is from the USA. That's why.

Oh and one incident?

laughingmexicanguy.gif

I mean whatever. Cletus and the clan are gonna do what they want. This video goes to show you that if people are holding guns to you then do what they say or face the consequences.

 

[DS_Joost]

Your wife will now have a lesson from this video, to not threaten to kill someone holding a gun over petty trash while wielding a baseball bat in the process.

#ContextDoesStillMatter

What context? Three batshit insane people who shouldn't have had weapons in the first place? Because that's the context for me. The fact that people have guns in their home, people like this. I don't trust anyone with a gun by the way. Ever.

The lesson my wife has learned is that Americans have a long way to go still. Control your fucking weapons, and get them out of the hands of ordinary people, is what she says, and has said her whole life.

I mean whatever. Cletus and the clan are gonna do what they want. This video goes to show you that if people are holding guns to you then do what they say or face the consequences.

I would. But I would ask myself why anyone would have a weapon at home anyway. Have one? Been nice knowing ya. Get that shit away from me. I want nothing to do with anyone having a gun at home. Anyone. Don't fucking care what the excuse might be. You have one at home I instantly distrust you and I will instantly block you from my life. So would my wife.

 

[Dice]

Yeah, I mean murder with guns happens, so people are willing to use their guns. You have two guys saying they'll shoot you if you do anything and you still go for it? Makes no sense, man. His pride got him in too deep. Still, they shouldn't have brought guns there. The fact they brought guns shows that they knew this guy was hostile to the extent of making death threats, and they made themselves the ones who decide what he would get in return for that hostility.

That said, it isn't guaranteed they'll even get convicted for murder. Texas is an open carry state, so they were within their right to be carrying the weapons. One may argue if they were allowed to brandish them or not, but when facing someone making death threats I think it is allowed. If he did go at them with a bat, they may not get convicted for murder, but perhaps manslaughter due to the imbalance of power. I'm not sure how it legally plays into things that they knew it was going to be a hostile and possibly violent encounter and went anyway rather than call the police.

The lesson my wife has learned is that Americans have a long way to go still. Control your fucking weapons, and get them out of the hands of ordinary people, is what she says, and has said her whole life.

The unfortunate reality in this country is that we have 380 million guns in circulation that we know about. Disarmament has to be voluntary; any other means is a logistical impossibility.

 

[DS_Joost]

Yeah, I mean murder with guns happens, so people are willing to use their guns. You have two guys saying they'll shoot you if you do anything and you still go for it? Makes no sense, man. His pride got him in too deep. Still, they shouldn't have brought guns there. The fact they brought guns shows that they knew this guy was hostile to the extent of making death threats, and they made themselves the ones who decide what he would get in return for that hostility.

That said, it isn't guaranteed they'll even get convicted for murder. Texas is an open carry state, so they were within their right to be carrying the weapons. One may argue if they were allowed to brandish them or not, but when facing someone making death threats I think it is allowed. If he did go at them with a bat, they may not get convicted for murder, but perhaps manslaughter due to the imbalance of power. I'm not sure how it legally plays into things that they knew it was going to be a hostile and possibly violent encounter and went anyway rather than call the police.

The unfortunate reality in this country is that we have 380 million guns in circulation that we know about. Disarmament has to be voluntary; any other means is a logistical impossibility.

I know. My argument is just that the kind of reasoning that goes on with gun ownership, and what you are saying about Texas is beyond fucked up for me. I cannot understand anyone defending those laws, even remotely.

 

[JoeDanny]

I would. But I would ask myself why anyone would have a weapon at home anyway. Have one? Been nice knowing ya. Get that shit away from me. I want nothing to do with anyone having a gun at home. Anyone. Don't fucking care what the excuse might be. You have one at home I instantly distrust you and I will instantly block you from my life. So would my wife.

...what if a person keeps guns in their home for hunting? or self defense?

This kind of prejudice just widens the divide between either side. You're never going to attain any kind of progress or compromise with that.

 

[DS_Joost]

...what if a person keeps guns in their home for hunting? or self defense?

This kind of prejudice just widens the divide between either side. You're never going to attain any kind of progress or compromise with that.

The self defense argument is moot completely for me. As a European, I have seen a society that can live without guns to defend themselves. The amount of deaths related to violence are significanty lower than in the USA. The correlation is really simple to grasp. No guns = less violence. There's no arguing the numbers. They are there. They don't lie. So, take away the guns. I'm talking about the principle, not the execution.

If Americans can't do that, if that won't work in America, then it is their own fault, not that the rules don't work. They do. Simple as that.

Hunting you can do at a club. Where they have lockers, for the guns. Here we have those clubs. They have lockers. You don't take the gun home with you. They are some of the most regulated places in the country. Get to the club, get the gun, shoot game, get back, put away the gun. Simple.

Yes you can get the gun and still shoot someone. Is that a possibility? Yes. What do the numbers say? Enough.

 

[Dice]

Yeah something people don't understand is just how big and wild the US still is. In Texas for example they have a real problem with wild hogs which can be dangerous so if you have land that you want to work out there, you'll want a gun to protect yourself if not to intentionally go out and cull their numbers. You can have some different gun laws for residential areas, though all over Texas rural and residential blur quite a bit.

My main thing is a sort of political game theory. Laws are pretty ineffective as activism and rather do a much better job upholding values that society already has. Until pro-gun people shift their mindset, I wouldn't want to push any hardcore anti-gun legislation because it could start Civil War 2.