Father who left his child in car, charged with murder, no bond

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It's quite easy. Read the article in the OP. Drugs has nothing to do it. Perfectly reasonable normal parents can do this.
I find this happens at home a lot, at least for me. if I'm doing housework or any other distracting, repetitive task, and our baby is in the crib sleeping, there are moments where I realize that I had completely forgotten that she is in the crib.

Obviously that's not a big issue, but change the scenario around and you can see how this happens.
 
He doesn't owe anything to society for this. He owes it to his family, himself, and his son. Any punishment society gives him is paltry in comparison to the mental trauma he's going through. Putting him in prison or even a lighter sentence literally does l nothing except make people who disagree that it was an accident feel better about themselves.

I'm with you. This was a horrible tragic accident, it seems. I want people in prison because they are a danger to society or have displayed violent/menacing behavior in the past. I don't want to torture a man more than he will do to himself for the rest of his life. They are doing nothing but ruining the lives of dozens more people, and probably hastening this man's suicide.
 
I never understand why people are so eager to throw people to jail just for the sake of punishment. Murderes are jailed because they are dangerous to other people. Those who assault people are jailed until they have been rehabilitated and no longer pose a threat for fellow citizens. I have always thought that purpose of the justice system is to make the society as safe as possible. Not to punish people for the sake of punishment. That is why I really don't get why drug users are jailed. How that will help them or us? Same in this case. I really don't see what jailtime would accomplish here. Give a man some threapy.
 
Where do you attach it? To their arm? To their leg? Do you have kids? That thing is bulky for the size of a 2 year old. Walk me through the process. When do you put it on the kid? When do you take it off the kid? It's another variable that makes you even more comfortable if you rely on it and all it takes is one time for you to slip up and you've got the same result. Not to mention issues of batteries dying, it not working, your kid breaking it without you realizing it...

I think the "become comfortable with it" argument is kind of silly. You'd hopefully never even have the alarm go off.. if you decided to just start wandering around and rely on an alarm you shouldn't have children.

The rest of your post? Just don't have much response. Not going to walk you through how to put a keyfob on a zipper or something.
 
Everyone should read this article before commenting:

Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

Imho, these parents have already been given the worst sentence possible: they will have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they were responsible for the death of their child. Any other punishment is basically superfluous.

Especially those who go "It couldn't happen to me"
Well yes, it could. It happened to some very, very, very observant and careful people. It happened to better and worse people than you - take safety measures or you run the risk, the brain sometimes decides to fuck with itself.
 
I think the "become comfortable with it" argument is kind of silly. You'd hopefully never even have the alarm go off.. if you decided to just start wandering around and rely on an alarm you shouldn't have children.

The rest of your post? Just don't have much response. Not going to walk you through how to put a keyfob on a zipper or something.

I think it's a crutch that people will make them fell more comfortable than they should be. Parents rely on safety gadgets all the time so they worry less.

Why can't you walk me through the daily routine or answer the number of possible variables that could cause it to not work?

When do you put it on them? When do you take it off? How does the daily routine work? Do you have kids? The fact that you don't realize the object is in fact bulky for a baby or a toddler seems to imply you might not. It also might be a choking hazard too.
 
Why can't you walk me through the daily routine or answer the number of possible variables that could cause it to not work?

Because it's all common sense.. and as I said, quite possible it could get forgotten or not set up correctly every single time.

1) Remember to put fob on child
2) Put fob on child
3) Wonder why I'm having to type this

I'm done.. you are arguing about a product I don't care about that is just an idea.. and claiming it's super bulky, but also a choking hazard.
 
Because it's all common sense.. and as I said, quite possible it could get forgotten or not set up correctly every single time.

1) Remember to put fob on child
2) Put fob on child
3) Wonder why I'm having to type this

There's more to it than that. You don't have kids do you.

Do you put it on in the house? In the car? When do you take it off? Do they wear it all day at school? If they don't wear it at school, where do you leave it? In the car? Defeats the purpose then....

I'm done.. you are arguing about a product I don't care about that is just an idea.. and claiming it's super bulky, but also a choking hazard.

Yep, not a parent if you don't understand how bulky items can still be a choking hazard.
 
There's more to it than that. You don't have kids do you.

Do you put it on in the house? In the car? When do you take it off? Do they wear it all day at school? If they don't wear it at school, where do you leave it? In the car? Defeats the purpose then....

These are all decisions you'd make if you decided to buy the product.

Would you like me to write a 10 page article explaining the numerous options you'd have?

You can leave it in the glove box, in the center console, in your purse or pocket.. you could put it in a child's pocket, attach it to a zipper, sew special back pockets for it, put it on the car seat somewhere, or you could.. just move on and stop this silly conversation..
 
Yeah, I don't understand how prison will help, uhh, anyone. We're paying for a man who lost his son to lose a good portion of his life in prison so... uhhh... I mean there has got to be an end result here somewhere, I'm not sure where.

If the guy was forced to tour around, speaking on the topic of child negligence or something like that, then I can understand. But how does him being in prison benefit society in any way?

It doesn't (to the bolded). But, unfortunately society has gone past prison being a correctional facility to house actual dangerous individuals/habitual offenders, many people just believe prison as punishment is the only way for the majority of situations where a crime has been committed.

Never mind the fact that this father obviously made a mistake that cost him his son and he will have to live with the guilt/shame/burden the rest of his life (The ultimate punishment IMO). Prison will only facilitate the breaking down of this man to the point of suicide. But, again, many don't/won't see it this way.
 
These are all decisions you'd make if you decided to buy the product.

Would you like me to write a 10 page article explaining the numerous options you'd have?

You can leave it in the glove box, in the center console, in your purse or pocket.. you could put it in a child's pocket, attach it to a zipper, sew special back pockets for it, or you could.. just move on and stop this silly conversation..

You're the one who isn't a parent, doesn't have kids, and doesn't understand the realities of the situation to suggest that such a device is going to fix problems.
 
Not to mention the parents of very young children are often sleep deprived, and have been for months or even years if they have multiple kids.

I'm a father of 3, youngest is a couple of months old (eldest is 3)
The number of times we've driven off, got down the road and said "is *number 3*" in the car, is crazy. She has been, each time, but neither of us remember putting her in.
Scares the shit out of us.
Your brain does fucked up things to you at times.

Feel so sorry for the family. The dad has to live with this for the rest of his life, it's something he will never ever get over.
 
I'm torn on whether prison makes sense here,
Is the world made better by sending him to gaol?


but largely unconvinced by the argument that is was a mistake or that he's been punished enough. Those certainly aren't the normal criteria we use to determine whether someone should be charged.

Aren't they? I mean I don't really know how it works in the colonies, but in England at least the Crown Prosecution will only prosecute if there's enough evidence for a reasonable chance at conviction and only then if it's in the public interest. There is considerable leeway to not prosecute cases such as this.

I mean it's illegal in England to assist someone's euthanasia, but of the 91 cases since April 2009, 65 were not prosecuted (13 were withdrawn by the police, 8 ongoing, 1 successful, and 4 are believed to be plain murders). With every prosecution the question "does this make the country better" is asked.
 
I swear a case like this happens every summer here in Toronto and surrounding area (Brampton and Mississauga). It's always terrible, and it frightens me to think that it can happen to anyone. Awful, awful accident.
 
I couldn't imagine what this guy and his family are going through right now.
This father will be serving a life sentence no matter what happens in the criminal court. Absolutely heartbreaking.
That poor little boy. What a horrible thing to happen.
 
I'm fucking terrified I might have a brain fart one day and do this. I'm super paranoid when I drive around with my kid. I always go to the back seat out of habit.

It's happened to so many parents and it's not deadbeat parents by any means.

I don't think a large prison sentence will accomplish anything.
 
For those saying "what is prison going to do?"....

You do realize that punishment isn't just for the criminal, but serves as a deterrent for future ones, right?
And we are trying to say that people don't intentionally leave their kids. They forget due to inattentional blindness or exhaustion. The message sent won't be applicable because it happens in the extreme circumstance. And the punishment won't be effective. I would bet the father has contemplated suicide since this has happened. Not much you could do to a loving father who caused his kids death.

The joke/sarcastic post that people keep missing is that you can't make parents think more about it. It will still happen as long as you have a thousand things to think about.


Also, there are a number of kids 'playing' in cars. So, that's another situation that would be near impossible to remove.
 
I've read that article earlier. It's just so terrible. Every parent spaces out from time to time. We're tired, overworked, and often neglicted ourselves. 99.9% of the time it no harm done. You just make amends. That one time, one time, where it's a serious consequence. Man those poor kids. Those poor parents.

My two are older now, noisier, nothing like this happened to them. I'm just grateful for it and feel a great deal of sympathy for those who were unlucky.
 
Horrible to think what this child went through during his final moments. I'm not sure how you forget to not only drop off you child to daycare but also forget they are in the car completely.
 
Bring charged for murder is the absolute worst thing to do to this father in this situation. What kind of lawyer would push for him to be charged with murder for this?! What kind of sick person would do that?
Horrible to think what this child went through during his final moments. I'm not sure how you forget to not only drop off you child to daycare but also forget they are in the car completely.

No one does, especially if it happens to you.
 
Horrible to think what this child went through during his final moments. I'm not sure how you forget to not only drop off you child to daycare but also forget they are in the car completely.

It's pretty simple. What if you normally don't drop them off but your partner has a meeting which results in her not being able to drop the kid off like normal? So you do it the one time and completely break up your normal routine that it's very easy to forget. I can't tell you the number of times when we've swapped kids and I took the wrong route to the appropriate daycare because the routine wasn't normal.
 
Seems like parents in this thread seem to agree that this man is no villain deserving of prison. How the hell are they going to find 12 people to agree that this man is guilty, I don't know. All it takes is for one guy to say 'this could be anyone, this could be me.'

All he has to do is take the stand and it's over.
 
The answer to the problem, Fennell believes, lies in improved car safety features and in increased public awareness that this can happen, that the results of a momentary lapse of memory can be horrifying.

What is the worst case she knows of?

“I don’t really like to . . .” she says.

She looks away. She won’t hold eye contact for this.

“The child pulled all her hair out before she died.”

That got to me.
Never heard of it happening here, but we only get a couple of weeks of hot weather a year.
Can't imagine coming back to find your baby dead like that, terrifying.
 
After reading that article, I wonder how often this happens but they get lucky. I think the ones that we hear about, because of the deaths, are just the lightning strikes that went unnoticed. I have a feeling this happens a lot (rear facing car seats make the kid practically invisible from the driver seat) but a passerby sees the kid, the babysitter/daycare calls, the parent goes to lunch and figures out the mistake, it's not 90 degrees and sunny, ect.

Honestly, if my kids weren't old enough to get out on their own, reading this would make me change my routine and figure out some form of fail safe. Something like putting my work ID or lunch bag in the back seat everyday regardless of whether it's my day to drop off the kid.
 
I'm fucking terrified I might have a brain fart one day and do this. I'm super paranoid when I drive around with my kid. I always go to the back seat out of habit.

It's happened to so many parents and it's not deadbeat parents by any means.

I don't think a large prison sentence will accomplish anything.

I think the best temp move for now, until sensors are put into cars, is to put your wallet or bag in the back seat with the child. It's just an instinctive thing for most people to pat their pockets for their wallets or swing a bag over their shoulder when they're leaving the car. If you don't have either of those things, something in your brain is going to say check the back seat.
 
That Washington Post article is terrifying. I have a 9 month old son and reading that made me feel sick because I started to understand how this can happen to loving and normally very responsible parents. I forget stuff all the time - my wife sends me to the grocery store to buy milk, I come back with five other things and forget the milk. Not the same, but when carting around your kid in a car all the time becomes routine, I can sort of see how something like this could slip. Especially with a child who fell asleep in a rear-facing car seat.

I think that article will make me ultra-paranoid about this now.

And any prison sentence for the father is too much. He will live with unimaginable guilt and sadness for the rest of his life. Putting him in prison does nothing.
 
Seems like parents in this thread seem to agree that this man is no villain deserving of prison. How the hell are they going to find 12 people to agree that this man is guilty, I don't know. All it takes is for one guy to say 'this could be anyone, this could be me.'

All he has to do is take the stand and it's over.

They would have to convince 12 people that leaving a child locked in a car all day while it's hot out is an act of child cruelty.
 
Everyone should read this article before commenting:

Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

Imho, these parents have already been given the worst sentence possible: they will have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they were responsible for the death of their child. Any other punishment is basically superfluous.

Such a poignant piece. Blatantly obvious though who read and didn't read it by their posts.
 
I'm reading Ed Catmull's "Creativity, Inc." and this almost happened to an overtired Pixar employee too. Thankfully, they discovered it after a short time and revived the unconscious kid with cold water. My heart stopped reading that.

Everyone should read this article before commenting:

Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

Imho, these parents have already been given the worst sentence possible: they will have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they were responsible for the death of their child. Any other punishment is basically superfluous.
God. This is… this is just horrible.

Yeah, I'm firmly in the camp of "why make anyone suffer more than they already have?"
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but doesn't Murder mean the suspect purposely caused the loss of life? Don't they have to prove the father planned and purposely killed his child?
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but doesn't Murder mean the suspect purposely caused the loss of life? Don't they have to prove the father planned and purposely killed his child?


No, felony murder is when someone is killed while a felony is committed. Like when someone dies during a robbery, even if it wasn't directly your fault.
 
I mean honestly what is the difference between a professional choosing to unsafely operate a huge piece of equipment and a parent forgetting their child is in the backseat of a hot car?
 
By law you are not even allowed to get out of the car without your child in tow. I hope people aren't going into convenience stores and leaving an infant in the backseat. I have dated two women with young children and the girl I'm currently dating has a 2 year old girl. I can't see leaving the baby in the backseat, ever. Maybe I'm just not being open-minded enough but I'm sorry I just don't see it happening.
 
By law you are not even allowed to get out of the car without your child in tow. I hope people aren't going into convenience stores and leaving an infant in the backseat. I have dated two women with young children and the girl I'm currently dating has a 2 year old girl. I can't see leaving the baby in the backseat, ever. Maybe I'm just not being open-minded enough but I'm sorry I just don't see it happening.

I'm sure the father didn't see it either, just like you.

It's not like he's doing this deliberately, people. No parent wants to bury their child.
 
For those saying "what is prison going to do?"....

You do realize that punishment isn't just for the criminal, but serves as a deterrent for future ones, right?

This will deter literally no one. The "deterrent" for not doing this is so your kid doesn't die. No one ever has innocently thought, "I would leave my kid in the car all day, but I'll go do jail if he dies, and I don't want that."

So, can someone explain why the tired parent whose mistake kills their kid shouldn't go to jail, but the tired truck driver who falls asleep for a second and kills another driver should? Because that's what happens now. If you make the mistake of falling asleep and killing someone, you're going to be charged with some form of manslaughter.

Or, what if it had been a neighbor's kidin the back seat? Still no prison? It's the exact same mistake, but I suspect if it were someone else's kid, this might be a very different thread?

Or, what if the parent forgets to put their gun away and a kid shoots themselves? Still a mistake, still already punished by losing a child.

I'm torn on whether prison makes sense here, but largely unconvinced by the argument that is was a mistake or that he's been punished enough. Those certainly aren't the normal criteria we use to determine whether someone should be charged.

Frankly, it seems to me that we're more forgiving in this case because we can imagine ourselves in the place of the father. That seems like an unusual way decide justice -- what's easy for us to empathize with.

To me the difference is that the truck driver did something actively negligent (getting behind the wheel when not being in a condition to drive) whereas the father in this case was passively negligent and simply forgot to do something.

It's admittedly a tough decision to make, but I really don't think it's worth ruining someone's life over - especially when it's already ruined enough from what's happened so far - solely for the purpose of revenge.
 
I guess? What's crazy is he put in a full day's work and didn't even think of it til 4pm.

Have you ever forgotten that you put something in your pocket? Have you ever been out for a few hours and then suddenly realise that you can't remember if you locked your front door or not? It's the same thing here.
 
I guess? What's crazy is he put in a full day's work and didn't even think of it til 4pm.

Because he was done with it. He worked all day knowing that his child wasn't in the car. It's just that he was wrong about that.

It's not as though every 15 minutes he's gonna run through everything he did that day so far and ask himself 'but did I REALLY?'
 
This will deter literally no one. The "deterrent" for not doing this is so your kid doesn't die. No one ever has innocently thought, "I would leave my kid in the car all day, but I'll go do jail if he dies, and I don't want that."

One potential problem is there are sick people who might think "Hey, I don't want my kid.. I'll leave them in the car and say I forgot." Wasn't there actually a news story a while back about a case like that where it was suspected?

I'm personally not entirely comfortable with the murder charge; but at least child negligence type charges seam warranted.
 
It's not crazy at all. It's normal.

It's NORMAL? This is not the same as forgetting to take a pill in the morning before work. This is someone not realizing that they didn't drive their child to daycare in the morning, dropping the child off and then going to work. That's quite a big thing to just forget. I'm sorry I don't think it's normal at all dude.
 
To me the difference is that the truck driver did something actively negligent (getting behind the wheel when not being in a condition to drive) whereas the father in this case was passively negligent and simply forgot to do something.

It's admittedly a tough decision to make, but I really don't think it's worth ruining someone's life over - especially when it's already ruined enough from what's happened so far - solely for the purpose of revenge.

Still, putting either of these people into jail does nothing for society. These aren't the dangerous individuals to society - if anything, they should be punished in a way that benefits the victim's families or those affected (in the case of the truck driver). I'm at a loss to what would be the alternative for the father though unless he displays some sort of mental issue which I doubt.
 
One potential problem is there are sick people who might think "Hey, I don't want my kid.. I'll leave them in the car and say I forgot." Wasn't there actually a news story a while back about a case like that where it was suspected?

I'm personally not entirely comfortable with the murder charge; but at least child negligence type charges seam warranted.

I'm not exactly comfortable with adding unnecessary strain on an already traumatized parent(s) and society at large by enforcing meaningless felony charges just to prosecute a very small minority.
 
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