Father who left his child in car, charged with murder, no bond

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Marty Chinn said:
So you've never forgotten anything when dealing with your child? Forgetting diapers, forgetting a snack, forgetting to bring a favorite toy, etc? You've done absolute perfect care for your child and never forgot anything relating to them? You've never driven somewhere that was different than your daily routine but went the wrong way because you were doing your daily routine?
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Forgetting to raise his child with a sense of empathy for starters

What happened is a tragedy, not a deliberate crime

EloquentM said:
Woah, that's not classy at all.
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I know, I was aiming to offend
 
This is a touchy subject, because no one wants to think they'd be so "careless" as to leave their children in a car, because children are the most important things to a parent yada yada yada.

But a lot of that is wishful thinking and pseudomysticism. As a human, your brain works in certain ways, as much as you like to think you have total control over your faculties, you do a lot of things on autopilot, including childcare. It only takes one tiny mistake like this at exactly the wrong time to inadvertently kill your child. Considering the amount of parents with cars out there, it was bound to happen eventually.
 
Whitechocolatekrispies said:
Only someone who has never ever fucked up in the slightest has the right to say this.

But you would of forgotten something in your life. Had accidents. Lost stuff. Done things wrong. Screwed something up.

It happens. The brain isn't perfect and it makes mistakes.

This person made a mistake, only he didn't lock himself out his apartment, his child died as a result. Yet they both took the exact same level of mistake.
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Can't agree with this, I have made plenty of mistakes, but forgetting your keys isn't the same level of mistake as forgetting a child, I check 20 times whether I have my phone and keys when I go somewhere, can't remember the last time I lost something. Makes perfect sense to me to check the back-seat, and not just even once or twice.

A life was lost here for fuck's sake, it's not even close to the same level.

I don't think prison is the answer for everything, but I'm not gonna downplay a lost life either.
 
Murder is a bit much, but I agree he has to be charged with something. Just because you are very very sorry does not mean you wont get punished by the law if you did something against the law. Some of you who are saying what would a prison sentence do, he is still going to suffer for the rest of his life. Yes, he will feel remorse and suffer for the rest of his life for being the cause of the death of his child due to his own negligence, and he will also need to pay for the laws he broke as well.

Not sure how the two of them are related. I mean he left a child in the car, that said child died directly due to his action and suffer baking in the damn car. "I forgot and I feel bad" does not make it ok in my eyes. He still broke the law, and he is still directly responsible for the lost of an innocent life.
 
BadAss2961 said:
I don't understand how he could forget the baby was in the car.
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what if he always drops the kid off at a babysitters, and the babysitter canceled last minute. maybe he gets a business call on the way to work, leaves his car while continuing to talk business. Basically gets distracted and forgets, because he usually doesn't bring his kid to work.
 
Man, it is crazy how you can destroy your life by being sleep deprived and forgetting something. I bet the guy had been busy for a couple weeks, not sleeping, and just fell into the daily rut and forgot his child was in the car. :(
 
Art said:
Can't agree with this, I have made plenty of mistakes, but forgetting your keys isn't the same level of mistake as forgetting a child, I check 20 times whether I have my phone and keys when I go somewhere, can't remember the last time I lost something. Makes perfect sense to me to check the back-seat, and not just even once or twice.

A life was lost here for fuck's sake, it's not even close to the same level.

I don't think prison is the answer for everything, but I'm not gonna downplay a lost life either.
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You really think that's what people are doing here?
 
This is my worst nightmare, that I could somehow forget my child is incomprehensible to me... but I'm sure it was to this guy before it happened as well. I'm sure there will be some type of legal punishment here, but I don't think a murder charge and prison is the way to go.

My two year old is sick today so I kept him home from daycare and I just went in to give him a kiss while he was napping... these stories absolutely wreck my emotions now that I am a parent.
 
Good. Hope there's a thorough investigation.

I remember a similar story involving a woman a few years ago. I don't believe she was charged with anything at first if I remember correctly, which is a huge mistake.

Forgetting your keys, forgetting your pills, forgetting your plane ticket, forgetting what candy corn taste like every year until it's too late, all understandable. Forgetting your CHILD in the car for hours?? Fishy as fuck and demanding of an investigation.
 
Pakoe said:
How the hell do you forget your own kid in your car?
This, i will never understand.
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“The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,” he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.”
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Read the article.
 
I don't see what jail accomplishes here. He'll likely hang himself inside of six months if he was that distraught at the scene. Is anyone in society demanding "justice" for this baby? Was there any evidence of malice in his actions? I don't think you can get a jury to get anything beyond manslaughter with those eyewitness accounts. A tragic accident.
 
Art said:
Can't agree with this, I have made plenty of mistakes, but forgetting your keys isn't the same level of mistake as forgetting a child, I check 20 times whether I have my phone and keys when I go somewhere, can't remember the last time I lost something. Makes perfect sense to me to check the back-seat, and not just even once or twice.

A life was lost here for fuck's sake, it's not even close to the same level.

I don't think prison is the answer for everything, but I'm not gonna downplay a lost life either.
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Yesterday I had to call my wife and have her check whether I left the burner on when I left the house. I had to eat in a hurry and then run to work, and had this nagging doubt that I might not have clicked the burner off and left a pan on it. That could burn the house down while we were both out.

Turns out I turned it off. But I wasn't sure, and our house and all our possessions were on the line. All it took was my being in a hurry to risk all that. The same kind of situation leads to kids being left in cars, despite responsible parents being paranoid and checking. It, very rarely, happens even when we are careful. Locking the parents up doesn't solve this. It's part of being human and living in modern life.
 
SneakyStephan said:
Forgetting to raise his child with a sense of empathy for starters

What happened is a tragedy, not a deliberate crime


I know, I was aiming to offend
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Seriously? I expressed that I have empathy for this tragic event and feel for the father. Try reading the thread before attacking someone who has a different opinion than you. Ridiculous how quickly people can attack someone around here just because they have different beliefs about the topic
 
I get why people don't want to see him go to prison but what if it wasn't a mistake? How do we know it was a mistake?
 
All the people that say they can't fathom leaving their kids in the cars, no fuckin shit!

No one can fathom leaving their child in a hot car! However, Accidents happen, shit happens, people forget thing then regret them. You never know when you'll forget something and everyone does this. In this specific case, I am sure if you asked the guy he would say he couldn't fathom leaving his child in a car to die. Just a horrible situation.
 
kamorra said:
I get why people don't want to see him go to prison but what if it wasn't a mistake? How do we know it was a mistake?
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We don't, but that's why there will be an investigation. Also, based on similar situation in the past there was a lack of intent in most cases.
 
kamorra said:
I get why people don't want to see him go to prison but what if it wasn't a mistake? How do we know it was a mistake?
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The thing with murder is that the burden of proof is on the state to prove that you willfully killed someone. Beyond a reasonable doubt. If the Hamilton guy testifies, Murder 1 and 2 are likely being thrown out the window instantly.
 
kamorra said:
I get why people don't want to see him go to prison but what if it wasn't a mistake? How do we know it was a mistake?
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You never know the case. I'll try to find the article that a parent used it as a way to free themselves of the responsibility of having a child. I just had my first like three weeks before so it really hit home hard. The situation sucks for all involved.
 
As a new father with a six-month old son, that sounds like a complete nightmare situation. I couldn't imagine simply forgetting that my son was in the backseat, since he's pretty much always first and foremost on my mind when we're out and about, but I don't want to assume that I understand this guy's life.

Horrible thing to do, but I agree that prison probably isn't going to make anything better for anyone.
 
Wow. That's terrible.

I fall on the side of it being more of an accident than negligence. Little side story. I had a really long day at work and I needed to stop for eggs. It was one of those good Samaritan places where you take your eggs from the shed and leave the money in a box. I pull up. Go into the shed, get my eggs, and come out to my car rolling towards the road. Long story short, I totally forgot to put my car in park. I was overly exhausted, was looking for my wallet, got distracted, and never put it in park. I had to run after it, jump in, and stop the car. Thankfully everything was fine.

Why I mentioned this story was because I can kind of draw comparison to this. Ive never had a car accident. Never had anything like this happen. I take care of my car religiously. But one little forgetful moment could've turned into a tragedy.

This man will be punished enough knowing it was his fault for the death of his child. A murder charge is ridiculous (if the details are as described).
 
I wonder, can't car companies do something about this to help the parents? I know it's not a daily occurrence, but once I one too many.

Can't we install sensors to detect if a child or a dog is inside, and if the car is turned off, have the alarm go off or make the car turn on the ac or something. Maybe install extra mirrors, something.

It could be offered as a Package or something. I dunno. It's a terrible thing that happened, but rather than sit and judge maybe we should try to brainstorm ideas and push for it so it doesn't happen again.
 
Ever get ready for work and leave your lunch sitting on a table after you put your shoes on? I know I have numerous times.

If I do one thing out of routine in the morning, there's no telling what I forgot until later in the day. But I know this about myself, and I always check the car seats in my car before I get out because of stories like this.

Nephtis said:
I wonder, can't car companies do something about this to help the parents? I know it's not a daily occurrence, but once I one too many.

Can't we install sensors to detect if a child or a dog is inside, and if the car is turned off, have the alarm go off or make the car turn on the ac or something. Maybe install extra mirrors, something.

It could be offered as a Package or something. I dunno. It's a terrible thing that happened, but rather than sit and judge maybe we should try to brainstorm ideas and push for it so it doesn't happen again.
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My van has a mirror specifically for looking in the backseat.
 
FTF said:
And even harder to understand, how you forget for 8 hours (9am to 4pm).

Regardless, this is just horrible on all accounts.
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It's not about forgetting for 8 hours. During those 8 hours your brain is telling you your kid is in daycare/school. Are you constantly second guessing yourself about everything during the work hours? You'd never get any work done if that's what you did.
 
Nephtis said:
I wonder, can't car companies do something about this to help the parents? I know it's not a daily occurrence, but once I one too many.

Can't we install sensors to detect if a child or a dog is inside, and if the car is turned off, have the alarm go off or make the car turn on the ac or something. Maybe install extra mirrors, something.

It could be offered as a Package or something. I dunno. It's a terrible thing that happened, but rather than sit and judge maybe we should try to brainstorm ideas and push for it so it doesn't happen again.
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You could be a VERY rich man...well I can now.
 
Poor kid, this is unbearable.

I really don't see what jail accomplished here. What an unthinkable mistake, I truly hope that he doesn't go to jail for this.
 
Dave Inc. said:
What bothers me the most about situations like this is that the prosecutor actually pursues jail time. Do they not have any humanity?
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Well, to be fair, they also have to be the advocates for the deceased. They champion their justice too. While I'm not sure Murder is appropriate, manslaughter or negligent homicide should be considered.
 
Empathizing with this man and understanding the necessity of punishing the crime he committed are not mutually exclusive.
 
luxarific said:
Everyone should read this article before commenting:

Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

Imho, these parents have already been given the worst sentence possible: they will have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they were responsible for the death of their child. Any other punishment is basically superfluous.
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The worst part about this article to me.
Balfour is reenacting her movements from that day after work. She walks from her cubicle in room 153A of the JAG school, out to the front of the building. By mid-afternoon she had finally checked her cell and discovered she’d missed an early morning call from her babysitter. She called back, but got only voice mail. It didn’t worry her. She and the babysitter were friends, and they talked often about all sorts of things. Balfour left a message asking for a callback.

It came when she was standing where she is now, on a spacious stone patio in front of the JAG school, heading toward the parking lot. As it happens, there is a Civil War-era cannon that is aimed, with unsettling irony, exactly where she stands.

The babysitter asked Balfour where Bryce was. Balfour said: “What do you mean? He’s with you.”

It is 60 feet to the end of the patio, then a stairwell with 11 steps down, then two steps across, then a second stairwell, 12 steps down, one more off the curb and then a 30-foot sprint to the car. Balfour estimates the whole thing took half a minute or less. She knew it was too late when, through the window, she saw Bryce’s limp hand, and then his face, unmarked but lifeless and shiny, Balfour says, “like a porcelain doll.”

It was seconds later that the passerby called 911.
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Ugh. So sad.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
The thing with murder is that the burden of proof is on the state to prove that you willfully killed someone. Beyond a reasonable doubt. If the Hamilton guy testifies, Murder 1 and 2 are likely being thrown out the window instantly.
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FYI, this is felony murder he's charged with. It's a different legal concept than the standard murder you see on Law & Order or whatever. The felony murder rule comes into play when a victim dies during a felony crime. The best example I can think of is Dog the Bounty Hunter. When he was young, Dog was involved in buying and selling drugs. During one such drug deal, one of Dog's accomplices committed a murder. Because Dog was involved in a felony that led to this murder (the drug deal), he was slapped with felony murder.

The charge on this father is cruelty to children in the first degree, which is surely a felony. They're just slapping felony murder on there because the kid died. However, the general practice for felony murder is that the felony convicted of in relation to the murder cannot be directly related to the murder. For example, if a defendant commits a battery, and the victim later dies, the prosecutor can't simply use a felony battery to invoke the felony murder rule, he'd actually have to prove up murder based on the elements.

I don't practice law in Georgia, but my guess is that the prosecutor is simply overreaching with the felony murder charge, and making a clearly questionable decision to charge the father with child cruelty, unless there are more facts we are unaware of that have not been brought to light.

Strictly said:
Manslaughter yes. Murder, huh? Where's the mens rea?
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Addressed above. Felony murder requires no mens rea, at least not for the murder portion. Just need it for the underlying felony.
 
Losing a child should be plenty "punishment", yes, but what if someone decides to get rid of their child using the same method? It should always be investigated properly.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
The thing with murder is that the burden of proof is on the state to prove that you willfully killed someone. Beyond a reasonable doubt. If the Hamilton guy testifies, Murder 1 and 2 are likely being thrown out the window instantly.
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It's different in every state.

Read the Georgia statute I linked to earlier.

He committed felony child endangerment... the child died during the commission of this felony. That is murder in Georgia, even "without malice."
 
Nephtis said:
I wonder, can't car companies do something about this to help the parents? I know it's not a daily occurrence, but once I one too many.

Can't we install sensors to detect if a child or a dog is inside, and if the car is turned off, have the alarm go off or make the car turn on the ac or something. Maybe install extra mirrors, something.

It could be offered as a Package or something. I dunno. It's a terrible thing that happened, but rather than sit and judge maybe we should try to brainstorm ideas and push for it so it doesn't happen again.
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It's in the article. Nobody wants to be the one liable when the system malfunctions.
 
ssolitare said:
Poor kid, this is unbearable.

I really don't see what jail accomplished here. What an unthinkable mistake, I truly hope that he doesn't go to jail for this.
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You don't see a problem with that?

Anyone who wants to kill their child could put up the same excuse and get rid of an unwanted child with zero repercussions.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I read this article a few months ago when this topic last came around, and it really changed my view on this subject. It's a fine line between negligence and an accident, and my view has swung toward the latter. Every incident is a bit different, but they tend to stem from people living their (busy, exhausting) lives and making a horrible, life altering mistake along the way. I have a hard time passing a harsh sentence upon them for it; losing your child is about as harsh as it gets.

Circumstances can change this, of course. But in this instance, I'm not sure what purpose additional punishment would serve.
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My post was a response to the charge he was handed - murder seems in no way warranted for the crime. Gross negligence is what I would have thought should have been proffered.

Is your opinion that it should never be a crime in this situation, or only if someone doesn't have extenuating circumstances (overworked to the point of exhaustion, etc)?
 
Just a complete tragedy. The father already has his sentence.

A) He has to live with this all his life
B) He has to live with knowing his family, partner, friends etc will hold him responsible for this for the rest of his life

The guy will probably end up killing himself at some point anyway due to guilt, I know I wouldnt be able to deal with it and would probably take this route out if my negligence led to any of my nieces or nephew dying.
 
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