SallyIsNow
Banned
Yeah. It's great.
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February Wrasslin' |OT| Observe THIS, Brother!
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
During the US Open Challenge everyone but Kane kicked out of at least one FU. Cena desperately needs a new ultra finish.
They were tiny feather-men so it made sense that they couldn't generate the same force as the heavyweights. Maybe you should pick up a book once in a while, Man God.
Even in the WWE people usually don't kick out of Finisher unless it a big match or on a big show.
He was one of a kind. Really he was. When he first came to WWE, No one wrestled him and no one acted like him. His character was that cool, cocky, and confident in himself. He would never get upset or mad. That's really different from everyone. Every match he had was a fun match until WWE sapped the life out of him. He wrestled hardcore style but you could tell that he had a blast doing it. It's not like the TLC matches or Foley matches where it feels like they're torturing each other. RVD's hardcore matches felt fun.
Watch RVD vs Lynn Living Dangerously 99 and Hardcore Heaven 99 and tell us your thoughts.
ANuclearError
Member
The Square Go was a very good show I felt, definitely worth making the trip down for, and I'm liking what ICW have lined up for the near future. These aren't going to be fully detailed breakdowns (especially of the Square Go match), but just general things I thought stood out.
ICW Tag Team Titles
ICW Zero-G Number 1 Contenders
ICW Women's Title
ICW Zero-G Title
ICW World Heavyweight Championship
The Square Go match
Very good show I felt, maybe one of ICW's best. Booking was on point, wrestlers were on form, and the Square Go was a fun rumble. Lot of building up of future matches as well, puts them in a good spot with the upcoming tour to build to Barramania. I definitely recommend checking this one out (biased as I am).
ICW Tag Team Titles
Bird & Boar def. Polo Promotions (c): The night started off hot with Bird & Boar winning their first tag titles in ICW. Crowd were very behind Polo Promotions for this one, surprised they lost. Was definitely the right choice for the opener, due to the strong story going into the match, Bird & Boar are good wee man/big man team. Guessing it'll be a rematch at Barramania
ICW Zero-G Number 1 Contenders
Lewis Girvan def. Andy Wild: The rise of Lewis Girvan continues with him getting a Zero-G title shot in a decent wee match. Won't be long until ICW pull the trigger on him.
ICW Women's Title
Kay Lee Ray (c) def. Kasey: Probably the most predictable result of the night really, I don't see Kay Lee losing that belt for a long time from now. A charming opening spot saw Kay Lee Ray spit her chewing gum onto Kasey's hands, who then promptly ate it herself. Classy. Match opened up with more mind-game spots, was well put together. Kay Lee won with a Gory Bomb/Swanton/Gory Bomb combo, good match. I'm hoping that Kasey sticks around in the title picture for a bit more. Definitely something there.
ICW Zero-G Title
Kenny Williams def. Ricochet: Jesus Christ Ricochet is so fast. Opening exchange was very fast paced, with Ricochet getting the upper hand. Ricochet was on the upper hand for most of this match, but Kenny was certainly keeping up with him I thought. These two were a great fit together, would very much love to see them wrestle again. Kenny won with a rollup after an array of smashing kicks to his heid, reversing the Vertigo(?), but yeah, smashing match, Kenny looked like a god damn star after this. Really hope we get more of these two together.
ICW World Heavyweight Championship
Trent Seven def. Wolfgang (c): The third time's the charm, as Trent finally beats Wolfgang, and finally captures the ICW World title in another very good match between the two. Wolfie battered the shit out of Trent, inside and outside the ring, but couldn't be kept down. Match built up to a great climax with Trent kicking out of a piledriver at 1, and coming back, but couldn't keep Wolfie down with a rainmaker. Naturally, like their first match, the brass knucks came into play. However, it was Trent who benefited, smashing a prone Wolfgang on the turnbuckle. Before delivering a goddamn piledriver from the second rope onto two chairs (holy shit). Amazing to watch live, the emotion in Trent's journey to the title exploded tonight. Magical.
The Square Go match
Joe Coffey wins from number 26: Lot of big names in this rumble, Wolfgang (somehow) was about to take part, battering Liam Thompson during his entrance (with kitchen sink). Early parts of the match were built around Lionheart being a sneaky bastard, and lasting from number 1. Number 12 however, was Joe Hendry, with an Enter Sandman song aimed at Lionheart. Can't be arsed going through everything in this Square Go, a ton of stories throughout it. Sadly, Grado's entrance is muted, but the fans fill in.
The final three were Coffey (26), Wolfgang (27) and Grado (29). Galloway and Jester were 28 and 30 respectively, with Jester eliminating Galloway and Grado eliminating Jester. Wolfgang and Coffey were too concerned with each other, which annoyed Grado, so we got some spots of Wolfie and Coffey teaming up on Grado to get him out of the way so they could focus on each other.
Coffey and Wolfgang were the final two last year, and Wolfgang's victory then helped him cash in on Coffey on the night Coffey won the title. So Coffey is out for revenge. They go back and forth, with Coffey eliminating Wolfgang with a discus forearm at 1 hours six minutes.
Coffey and Trent had a staredown afterwards, hyping up a match between them, should Coffey cash in while Trent is champion.
The final three were Coffey (26), Wolfgang (27) and Grado (29). Galloway and Jester were 28 and 30 respectively, with Jester eliminating Galloway and Grado eliminating Jester. Wolfgang and Coffey were too concerned with each other, which annoyed Grado, so we got some spots of Wolfie and Coffey teaming up on Grado to get him out of the way so they could focus on each other.
Coffey and Wolfgang were the final two last year, and Wolfgang's victory then helped him cash in on Coffey on the night Coffey won the title. So Coffey is out for revenge. They go back and forth, with Coffey eliminating Wolfgang with a discus forearm at 1 hours six minutes.
Coffey and Trent had a staredown afterwards, hyping up a match between them, should Coffey cash in while Trent is champion.
Very good show I felt, maybe one of ICW's best. Booking was on point, wrestlers were on form, and the Square Go was a fun rumble. Lot of building up of future matches as well, puts them in a good spot with the upcoming tour to build to Barramania. I definitely recommend checking this one out (biased as I am).
Remember when, for the longest time, HBK would never connect with his first superkick because the opponent would always counter or duck?
Then there was a period of a couple months where he would stop missing and just finish the match with it (I think around the time he was in that angle with JBL).
They can just do it if they wanted. But they think it adds to the drama of a match so they won't.
Serpentine
Banned
I don't remember this. i'm dying
You can always go back. WWE went back to PG, abandoned blood, left the worst parts of their sexist product behind, etc. They can -- and should -- go back to simpler wrestling matches. It'll make the special stuff guys pull off all the time actually seem special when they do it.
Etc. etc. I feel like I've said this 30 times.
sf2fanatic
Member
Rockapplaud Fox on his post while smh @ Bronx's Topics
Barrage
Member
Agreed. The other big matches with multi-finishers (Warrior/ Macho Man, Taker/Kane at WM14, shit I think Hogan dropped a few legdrops on Goldberg) all had participants that had invulnerability as kinda their thing. Austin/Rock was the first time guys kicked out of multiple finishers due to it being Mania.
WWE had a chance to rehab finishers if they had let their top guys new moves (Cena's Springboard Stunner, Roman's Razor Edge Powerbomb) actually pin some dudes. Instead, they established them as nothing and they end up with the same pop as Orton's powerslam.
In terms of well protected finishers, Ambrose's DDT and Neville's Red Arrow are the most protected. Wyatt's finisher is also shown as pretty devastating, though I have a vague memory of someone kicking out of it.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
That's ONE story to tell. You don't want an entire roster, much less its best performers, telling that same story. It's been done with. You can get tension and uncertainty from matches in a number of ways.
People desperately fighting out/dodging finishers is so much cooler than them taking it and kicking out at barely two.
I mentioned last night that I watched the DDP/Goldberg match at halftime and that has a great solution. Goldberg Spears DDP but he previously injured his shoulder so he can't get up fast. Tries to Jackhammer him but it's blocked, tries again and gets the Diamond Cutter out of nowhere. But DDP has been so badly abused all night that it takes him to an eight count to get over to make the cover, and Goldberg kicks out.
Today he would have covered Goldberg immediately instead of nearly thirty seconds later and the kick out would be meaningless. Back then it was a matter of being too drained to get over there in time.
I mentioned last night that I watched the DDP/Goldberg match at halftime and that has a great solution. Goldberg Spears DDP but he previously injured his shoulder so he can't get up fast. Tries to Jackhammer him but it's blocked, tries again and gets the Diamond Cutter out of nowhere. But DDP has been so badly abused all night that it takes him to an eight count to get over to make the cover, and Goldberg kicks out.
Today he would have covered Goldberg immediately instead of nearly thirty seconds later and the kick out would be meaningless. Back then it was a matter of being too drained to get over there in time.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
yessir.
To your point, I think wwe has lost that edge when it comes to telling a story. I could be wrong but right now, the build up to the match and the match in and of itself is the story from a birds eye view. It would be nice if they incorporated the ramifications of past matches each wrestler endured to tell a story just like in your example of DDP's shoulder. It's one way to add layers to contribute to what happens to in-ring.
Tom Nook
Member
Pats overcome the odds, the John Cena in the NFL.
This is how finisher kickouts should always be done. There should be a delay in getting the cover, then when you kick out it doesn't diminish the finisher.
Also, DDP should have ended the streak and became one of the top faces.
Besides Rock/Austin and some of the other usual suspects like Warrior/Macho I don't think finisher spam was really that big of a deal for a while...until the HBK/Taker match at Mania 25. I want to say that was the match that really pushed forward finisher spam in WWE again. They've calmed it in recent years, with most guys not kicking out of finishers on weekly TV and only on PPV, though even that's not frequent. It was probably more common in the indies as they started to ramp up in intensity -- people using the Canadian Destroyer as a regular move comes to mind as one of the early beginnings of that and then future finisher spam. Late 00's and early 10's ROH was quite awful with this.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
HHH gets it *looks to Nakamura and Roode match*
He's already then the number two face in the company. Nash is third and Goldberg is one.
Nash actually isn't turned heel by cheating to beat Goldberg, people thought that he and Hall had made up and Hall was going to join the Wolfpac...but the next Nitro changes all of that with the worst moment in Nitro history.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Tech wise?
Nope. Dudes are always kicking out of finishers through 2006. And I imagine it never lets up.
Hidden One
Member
WWE stay biting.
StWilson85
Member
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
People will defend anything. I'll always hold out hope that Nintendo can get with the times one day and release a competitive console, but until then I am done with them.
Shouldn't really be called finishers now, maybe call them signature moves?
Partially that, and Nintendo just has a philosophical approach to systems that seems to run counter to what consumers actively want these days. Part of their problem is that they like to pretend their competition doesn't exist, which is why they actively avoid going head to head with Sony anymore, when the reality is their competition is slapping them around the ring. People always cite "but the GameCube" as a reason for why Nintendo shouldn't go into a tech war with Playstation or Xbox anymore, but the GameCube was done under by a lot of other big problems - problems that mostly still linger with Nintendo today.
They're a company that's clearly behind the curve.
I was just thinking the other day "this Chris Masters character is whatever, but I'm into this Masterlock business being a devastating finisher..."
Sad but true.
No shit, they put online functionality into a smart phone app that they charge $30 a year to use.
Since the punt was retired, yes.
i dont understand why the worlds laziest punch is so protected
HazySaiyan
Banned
Wrestlers dogding finishers or countering them > Wrestlers kicking out all the time any day of the week. A kick out should be once in a blue moon
What is this??
He punches harder than a rhino running at full speed, maggle!
I love how this move from a gimmick Wrestlemania match has stuck around for almost a decade just because of how easy it is.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
I haven't been a Nintendo fan since the end of the Gamecube era. The lifespan of the Wii was certainly memorable in how it shook things up a bit and made them millions, but I can count on one hand the games that did anything for me. I won't even comment on the Wii U despite the fact I was in line day One. Iwata and Reggie as his NOA mouthpiece soured me on their reputation (I still think Reggie needs to be dropped like a bag of shit on someones front door...never to be seen again).
With that said , there is only so much a race over tech this and tech that can do. As a consumer, assuming all tech being equal, the only thing I then have to differentiate between the 3 consoles are the games. To that end, I think Nintendo agrees and continues to focus on keeping their game designers in the spot light. It makes sense. My only problem there is that they dropped the ball on keeping a healthy lineup of first party games coming out alongside some new IPs (Splatoon was, for me, their best game in years!). The thing about Nintendo games, no one designs games like they can. That is their selling point. Take to Twitch and watch any number of speedruns for games like Mario 64 or Mario Sunshine or whatever.
With that said, I love the idea of the Switch and love what Nintendo is doing on mobile. Fire Emblem Heroes is so fucking great and was the first time I have ever put down hard cold $ into a f2p game. I imagine with that extra revenue coming in, they'll get caught up soon enough but they need the money. I'm hoping and feel they'll win me back as a fan this go around. At least that's my hope.
The dance people do to get out of the rainmaker is the best.
Into the Light
Banned
RVD ECW was so so good.
The funny thing is that Nintendo going more mobile, in an attempt to avoid direct competition with Playstation and Xbox, has pushed them into a market that has arguably even more direct competition since now they open the door for being competitors to iPads and Surface systems and the tablet/mobile market as a whole.
slightconfuse
Banned
Cerebral assassinations
