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February Wrasslin' |OT| WrassleGAF. In 2016.

O

orioto

Good Art™
Cagey said:
Performers need to act like heels and crowds need to boo heels instead of applauding or booing as if they're judging a talent contest.

The notion that there's "no faces or heels, just shades of grey!" WWE has just makes the actions, and thus the reactions to those actions, that much more ambiguous and tepid and lukewarm.
Click to expand...

Yes although i do think you can have tweeners or more complicated positioning. BUT at some point they have to be booked to be over or not.

Owens is over, and you'll have a real trouble stopping those smarks to cheer, except by making him absolutely not interesting, which is hurting the product in the end. To me he should be booked as a negative Cena. Which is what they probably tried to do at first against him.

Cena is the perfect heel cause he's loved by all the girls and kids.
Owens should be the perfect face cause he's hated by them. He should also be booked as a no good for business underdog, cause fuck.. that's exactly what he is. Vince McMahon should bury him violently, telling him he's not in shape and guys like him will never be on top, then Owens should say "well fuck it" and destroy systematically every "pretty face" till he's on top.
 
C

Cagey

Banned
Rockandrollclown said:
The thing is, KO acts like a heel. Just not a cowardly heel. the product has been so watered down how am I supposed to boo someone who is mean to announcers I hate, and puts on amazing matches? In order for Owens to work as a heel he needs to be fucking with someone the audience desperately wants to see succeed. There were times I hated the Rock, because he was standing in the way of Steve Austin or Mick Foley. Take away the great faces, and I'm just left with too much appreciation for how funny the Rock is.
Click to expand...

That's the problem, but not simply because there's a lack of great heroes.

We're in an era where half the crowd -- us, the people in this thread -- are in business for ourselves. We've decided that Kevin Owens should succeed because he's talented and fun to watch and he was on the indies and he's cool. The WWE presents him as a heel, because the dude is naturally a heel, and what do we do? We cheer him, we get mad when he loses, etc. We view him as a babyface. He's not. We're hurting his character in the stories they tell because we're not reacting how his character needs us to react.

The faces are performers deemed worthy of praise, and the are performers deemed "unworthy" of love, without care for what their damn characters are.

The other half of the audience is cheering the faces and booing the heels according to the story, and helping to enhance the story (however bad it may be).

We are the problem, but we think we are the solution.
 
O

orioto

Good Art™
Cagey said:
That's the problem, but not simply because there's a lack of great heroes.

We're in an era where half the crowd -- us, the people in this thread -- are in business for ourselves. We've decided that Kevin Owens should succeed because he's talented and fun to watch and he was on the indies and he's cool. The WWE presents him as a heel, because the dude is naturally a heel, and what do we do? We cheer him, we get mad when he loses, etc. We view him as a babyface. He's not. We're hurting his character in the stories they tell because we're not reacting how his character needs us to react.

The faces are performers deemed worthy of praise, and the are performers deemed "unworthy" of love, without care for what their damn characters are.

The other half of the audience is cheering the faces and booing the heels according to the story, and helping to enhance the story (however bad it may be).

We are the problem, but we think we are the solution.
Click to expand...

We are not the problem. The wwe is the problem for not adapting his philosophy to a new era. Actually they do it sometimes. They've had pretty solid booking with complex heel/face situations before.

And about over heels, remember Mr Kennedy ? His whole first Smackdown run was basically a "face" heel. He was a douche, but everyone wanted him to succeed until that MITB match. Hell everyone wanted him to beat Batista at that RR main event, cause he was the ambitious underdog. SD bookers got it completely at that point. It was just exciting seeing someone climb he ladder to the top, heel or face.
 
C

Cagey

Banned
orioto said:
We are not the problem. The wwe is the problem for not adapting his philosophy to a new era. Actually they do it sometimes. They've had pretty solid booking with complex heel/face situations before.

And about over heels, remember Mr Kennedy ? His whole first Smackdown run was basically a "face" heel. He was a douche, but everyone wanted him to succeed until that MITB match. Hell everyone wanted him to beat Batista at that RR main event, cause he was the ambitious underdog. SD bookers got it completely at that point. It was just exciting seeing someone climb he ladder to the top, heel or face.
Click to expand...

This new era is defined by half the crowd wanting to control the narrative based on who they deem worthy, which typically means "how much perceived support, based on my own biases and what I read online or hear in podcasts, does this performer have from WWE? if it's a lot, fuck that guy. if it's not a lot, he's awesome!".

Fans cheering every heel in ROH until they became champion, were forced to turn face and be promoted as a top dog in the company, and then were turned on because the fans got bored of them in the top spot backed by the company and wanted to find someone new who wasn't getting promoted... it's bled over to WWE. Amusingly, the same dude discussed on this page -- Kevin Owens -- ranted about this after he won the ROH title as an attempt to stay heel for real... and the audience at Hammerstein cheered him anyway.

The heel/face dynamic isn't complex anymore. It's largely broken, and we actively destroyed it, and we're mad that 1) it's broken and 2) WWE won't fix it.
 
S

slightconfuse

Banned
Ca28DZlWEAEOL0Q.jpg
 
F

Fox318

Member
FlammableD said:
wut

"WWE star Titus O'Neil was sent home from last night's Smackdown taping in Portland, Oregon shortly after he arrived. The word we are getting is that O'Neil has been suspended for "unprofessional conduct." During the ending of last night's Raw taping in Seattle, Washington, a number of WWE personalities and staff were assembled on the stage in honor of the retiring Bryan Danielson. At the end of that segment, which aired on Raw before going live on the WWE Network, Danielson returned to the locker room after passing through the center of the assembled WWE personnel.

As WWE talents returned to the back, O'Neill grabbed WWE owner Vince McMahon in what was described to us as in a "playful, physical way." McMahon responded by shoving O'Neil away. McMahon's shove of O'Neill actually made it onto the final seconds of the broadcast. We are told that McMahon was angry at being grabbed and that led to the suspension.

When O'Neil arrived at Smackdown, he was informed he was going sent home. The word making the rounds is that the suspension could be for upwards of 90 days. That would put O'Neil out of action through May, which means he would be missing Wrestlemania 32.

O'Neil, 39, signed with WWE in 2009 and is best known as one half of the Prime Time Players, although he's been used most recently in a singles role. He's been very active in local community outreach where he lives in Tampa. O'Neil had lost to Adam Rose earlier during the Raw broadcast.

Last night, the WWE Network exclusive video of Bryan Danielson's farewell was removed from Youtube and WWE.com as well as the WWE Network. It is likely that WWE is going to edit the snippet at the end out before restoring the videos."
Click to expand...

He is done. Might as well pack his bags.

Vince will hold that grudge or he will be jobbing to everyone.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Cagey said:
This new era is defined by half the crowd wanting to control the narrative based on who they deem worthy, which typically means "how much perceived support, based on my own biases and what I read online or hear in podcasts, does this performer have from WWE? if it's a lot, fuck that guy. if it's not a lot, he's awesome!".

Fans cheering every heel in ROH until they became champion, were forced to turn face and be promoted as a top dog in the company, and then were turned on because the fans got bored of them in the top spot backed by the company and wanted to find someone new who wasn't getting promoted... it's bled over to WWE. Amusingly, the same dude discussed on this page -- Kevin Owens -- ranted about this after he won the ROH title as an attempt to stay heel for real... and the audience at Hammerstein cheered him anyway.

The heel/face dynamic isn't complex anymore. It's largely broken, and we actively destroyed it, and we're mad that 1) it's broken and 2) WWE won't fix it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the face/heel dynamic is broken. It just boils down to audiences are going to be entertained more by the better written character. This isn't a wrestling exclusive thing either. Everyone was infinitely more "into" The Joker during The Dark Knight than Batman, because Joker was actually written well while Batman is basically a supporting character in his own movie.

The reason a lot of people turn on over heels once they become face champions is because they usually get boring as fuck once they turn face. In WWE's case, it's because they write every major face character the exact same way.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
I honestly wonder what Vince is thinking sometimes. Such a petty reaction to a silly thing. He could have just had him keep jobbing to social outcast members instead of blowing this up unnecessarily. Its not a good look.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Vince McMahon possibly suspends a well liked and charitable black superstar over something petty during Black History Month.

#BeAStar
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
I knew the reaction wasn't "playful"

Seemed pretty unprofessional, but that suspension is crazy. Guess it says something that they can afford to do this to Titus with such a thin roster.
 
shanafan

shanafan

Member
darkside31337 said:
I honestly wonder what Vince is thinking sometimes. Such a petty reaction to a silly thing. He could have just had him keep jobbing to social outcast members instead of blowing this up unnecessarily. Its not a good look.
Click to expand...

Sephzilla said:
Vince McMahon possibly suspends a well liked and charitable black superstar over something petty during Black History Month.

#BeAStar
Click to expand...

TimeEffect said:
I knew the reaction wasn't "playful"

Seemed pretty unprofessional, but that suspension is crazy. Guess it says something that they can afford to do this to Titus with such a thin roster.
Click to expand...

We only saw what happened on camera.. and barely saw mind you.

Who knows what happened backstage or behind closed doors.
 
G

Gurrry

Member
FlammableD said:
wut

"WWE star Titus O'Neil was sent home from last night's Smackdown taping in Portland, Oregon shortly after he arrived. The word we are getting is that O'Neil has been suspended for "unprofessional conduct." During the ending of last night's Raw taping in Seattle, Washington, a number of WWE personalities and staff were assembled on the stage in honor of the retiring Bryan Danielson. At the end of that segment, which aired on Raw before going live on the WWE Network, Danielson returned to the locker room after passing through the center of the assembled WWE personnel.

As WWE talents returned to the back, O'Neill grabbed WWE owner Vince McMahon in what was described to us as in a "playful, physical way." McMahon responded by shoving O'Neil away. McMahon's shove of O'Neill actually made it onto the final seconds of the broadcast. We are told that McMahon was angry at being grabbed and that led to the suspension.

When O'Neil arrived at Smackdown, he was informed he was going sent home. The word making the rounds is that the suspension could be for upwards of 90 days. That would put O'Neil out of action through May, which means he would be missing Wrestlemania 32.

O'Neil, 39, signed with WWE in 2009 and is best known as one half of the Prime Time Players, although he's been used most recently in a singles role. He's been very active in local community outreach where he lives in Tampa. O'Neil had lost to Adam Rose earlier during the Raw broadcast.

Last night, the WWE Network exclusive video of Bryan Danielson's farewell was removed from Youtube and WWE.com as well as the WWE Network. It is likely that WWE is going to edit the snippet at the end out before restoring the videos."
Click to expand...

Lol good ol senile vince. One second he can rib with anyone in the locker room, then the next thing you know, hes sending you home.

I understand it was a horrible time and place to do that from Titus.. but god damn, Vince, a suspension?

No wonder the entire locker room feels like theyre walking on eggshells all the time around him. Any second he could explode and suspend them.
 
H

HeisenbergLannister

Member
I kinda feel like Vince got talked into the suspension considering how Vince seemed fine with it as it happened.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the yes men and nut huggers backstage told Vince "he tried to embarrass you, Mr. Mahon! You have to do something or look weak!"

Hey Dok.
 
E

ElectricBlanketFire

Member
Can't break kayfabe while the cameras are on...even if every wrestler is standing together at the top of the ramp doing the Yes! chant regardless if they are a heel or face.
 
R

Rockandrollclown

lookwhatyou'vedone
Cagey said:
This new era is defined by half the crowd wanting to control the narrative based on who they deem worthy, which typically means "how much perceived support, based on my own biases and what I read online or hear in podcasts, does this performer have from WWE? if it's a lot, fuck that guy. if it's not a lot, he's awesome!".

Fans cheering every heel in ROH until they became champion, were forced to turn face and be promoted as a top dog in the company, and then were turned on because the fans got bored of them in the top spot backed by the company and wanted to find someone new who wasn't getting promoted... it's bled over to WWE. Amusingly, the same dude discussed on this page -- Kevin Owens -- ranted about this after he won the ROH title as an attempt to stay heel for real... and the audience at Hammerstein cheered him anyway.

The heel/face dynamic isn't complex anymore. It's largely broken, and we actively destroyed it, and we're mad that 1) it's broken and 2) WWE won't fix it.
Click to expand...

While I agree the crowd booking is kind of annoying, we're in a different era. The in ring product is getting better, and I am largely going to cheer for the people who put on good matches. Whether its Owens who is a heel or Ambrose/Cesaro/Cena who are all faces. Rollins was pretty good at remaining hateable and putting on amazing matches though, but Rollins definitely walked the line of coward heel despite having amazing matches.
 
F

Fox318

Member
This is a perfect example on how people walk on eggshells backstage.

I wouldn't be shocked if Steph was the one who pushed for the suspension seeing as it happened right in front of her.
 
ElRenoRaven

ElRenoRaven

Member
Gurrry said:
Lol good ol senile vince. One second he can rib with anyone in the locker room, then the next thing you know, hes sending you home.

I understand it was a horrible time and place to do that from Titus.. but god damn, Vince, a suspension?

No wonder the entire locker room feels like theyre walking on eggshells all the time around him. Any second he could explode and suspend them.
Click to expand...

Honestly didn't surprise me. When I saw it you could tell Vince was pissed. I said to myself right then that someone was getting suspended and/or fired. I really don't look for Titus to come back. I bet he'll be let go during suspension or shortly after. I figure he apologized backstage but yea you don't touch Vince.
 
F

Fox318

Member
Son Of D said:
Wouldn't surprise me. Didn't she get quite pissed off at Dusty Rhodes backstage when he put his hand to her face?
dusty-rhodes-facepalm-stephanie-mcmahon-o.gif
Click to expand...

She was fuming. Dusty didn't give a shit and I think he of all people knew how she never wants to give up her heat and emasculate the entire roster.

Then again she was the one who hired Dusty back in 2005.
 
K

kirblar

Member
lol@ the Owens conspiracy theories - there are very few high profile faces to feud with, so hes stuck with ziggles. Hes making the best of a bad situation.

And yeah Titus is done. What a colossally bad judgement call there.
 
H

hamchan

Member
FlammableD said:
wut

"WWE star Titus O'Neil was sent home from last night's Smackdown taping in Portland, Oregon shortly after he arrived. The word we are getting is that O'Neil has been suspended for "unprofessional conduct." During the ending of last night's Raw taping in Seattle, Washington, a number of WWE personalities and staff were assembled on the stage in honor of the retiring Bryan Danielson. At the end of that segment, which aired on Raw before going live on the WWE Network, Danielson returned to the locker room after passing through the center of the assembled WWE personnel.

As WWE talents returned to the back, O'Neill grabbed WWE owner Vince McMahon in what was described to us as in a "playful, physical way." McMahon responded by shoving O'Neil away. McMahon's shove of O'Neill actually made it onto the final seconds of the broadcast. We are told that McMahon was angry at being grabbed and that led to the suspension.

When O'Neil arrived at Smackdown, he was informed he was going sent home. The word making the rounds is that the suspension could be for upwards of 90 days. That would put O'Neil out of action through May, which means he would be missing Wrestlemania 32.

O'Neil, 39, signed with WWE in 2009 and is best known as one half of the Prime Time Players, although he's been used most recently in a singles role. He's been very active in local community outreach where he lives in Tampa. O'Neil had lost to Adam Rose earlier during the Raw broadcast.

Last night, the WWE Network exclusive video of Bryan Danielson's farewell was removed from Youtube and WWE.com as well as the WWE Network. It is likely that WWE is going to edit the snippet at the end out before restoring the videos."
Click to expand...

And here I was thinking that Vince liked to be playful with the wrestlers. Thought that he and Titus must have been good buds for Titus to even try to grab his boss. Turns out nope, boss will totally suspend you. Keep walking on eggshells around him locker room.
 
M

MG310

Member
Titus, I'm sorry but I think this is your Smiling Paul London moment.

I imagine there's a time/place where that is okay but on TV on that occasion was not it.
 
shanafan

shanafan

Member
hamchan said:
And here I was thinking that Vince liked to be playful with the wrestlers. Thought that he and Titus must have been good buds for Titus to even try to grab his boss. Turns out nope, boss will totally suspend you. Keep walking on eggshells around him locker room.
Click to expand...

If walking on eggshells means not grabbing your boss while on TV during a RETIREMENT segment, then I think most people would be fine.

And again.. we do not know what happened backstage after.
 
E

ElectricBlanketFire

Member
If Vince thinks Titus truly ruined the moment then he should just fire him. As a low/midcard at best rassleman (that's not a criticism, just how he's booked), he'll be buried for the rest of his WWE career.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
Wasn't someone suspended or at least got heat for corpsing during a scene with McMahon? I want to say it was before the limo explosion.

What Titus did was highly unprofessional and was probably one of the worst times you could do something like that.
 
G

giancarlo123x

Banned
Kaladin said:
Wasn't someone suspended or at least got heat for corpsing during a scene with McMahon? I want to say it was before the limo explosion.

What Titus did was highly unprofessional and was probably one of the worst times you could do something like that.
Click to expand...
Wasn't it Paul london and he got fired?

tumblr_m7acdnwb4o1qzrqwso1_400.jpg
 
F

Fox318

Member
Kaladin said:
Wasn't someone suspended or at least got heat for corpsing during a scene with McMahon? I want to say it was before the limo explosion.

What Titus did was highly unprofessional and was probably one of the worst times you could do something like that.
Click to expand...

That was Paul London.

6z01fzJ.jpg
 
shanafan

shanafan

Member
ElectricBlanketFire said:
If Vince thinks Titus truly ruined the moment then he should just fire him. As a low/midcard at best rassleman (that's not a criticism, just how he's booked), he'll be buried for the rest of his WWE career.
Click to expand...

Damn, and to think Titus was booked to win Money in the Bank.
Even without the suspension, he would always been a low to mid-carder.
 
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