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[Nightengale]

What about what I've said makes them a mess out of curiosity?

I will say, that buying BigPark, getting them to make Kinect Joy Ride, then Joyride Turbo for XBLA (which was actually pretty good) then gutting them to make them make apps always struck me as stupid/odd but thats Mattrick for you.

I disagree. Management and restructuring of first-party studios, to me, falls on Phil Spencer, as head of first-party studios.

Sure, maybe there was a period in time where Kinect was focus of the development and Mattrick was a factor when it came to acquisitions, but when those resources shifted, the one in charge of that transition over to something else entirely is more aligned with studio heads and head of first-party.

It's not as if there's a written rule that apps must be made by first-party resources. Xbox Fitness was made with support from Sumo Digital, which means there was avenue to outsource development of apps to external devs, just like how Sharefactory by Sony isn't made by an internal studio.

 

[Peterpan]

I disagree. Management and restructuring of first-party studios, to me, falls on Phil Spencer, as head of first-party studios.

Sure, maybe there was a period in time where Kinect was focus of the development and Mattrick was a factor when it came to acquisitions, but when those resources shifted, the one in charge of that transition over to something else entirely is more aligned with studio heads and head of first-party.

It's not as if there's a written rule that apps must be made by first-party resources. Xbox Fitness was made with support from Sumo Digital, which means there was avenue to outsource development of apps to external devs, just like how Sharefactory by Sony isn't made by an internal studio.

Read what Ed Fries said. I doubt Phil Spencer had as much power as you think. If it was up to Ed Fries, who was head of the first party studio at the time, things would be a whole lot different, but they weren't because of other factors. Phil just got into the job fairly recently as the head of first party and people expected magic. Ed Fries couldn't get what he wanted, someone who worked there longer. What makes you think Phil can just say I want this and this, then it is done.

 

[Nightengale]

I doubt Phil Spencer had as much power as you think.

"Blank cheque."

His words, not mine.

 

[Steverulez]

I disagree. Management and restructuring of first-party studios, to me, falls on Phil Spencer, as head of first-party studios.

Sure, maybe there was a period in time where Kinect was focus of the development and Mattrick was a factor when it came to acquisitions, but when those resources shifted, the one in charge of that transition over to something else entirely is more aligned with studio heads and head of first-party.

It's not as if there's a written rule that apps must be made by first-party resources. Xbox Fitness was made with support from Sumo Digital, which means there was avenue to outsource development of apps to external devs, just like how Sharefactory by Sony isn't made by an internal studio.

I consider BigPark to be a vanity purchase of Mattrick's, he was chairman at the studio before he went to MS. Joyride was originally a F2P XBLA game, that got turned into an average Kinect game (Do we even know how well it sold?) then got a later reboot back into an XBLA title, since then they got turned into an app studio.

Im sure Phil Spencer was involved in all that decision making particularly in what they are now but it strikes me as Mattrick all over in the way they were handled and run. Now they're a shell of what they were making sports apps...

"Blank cheque."

His words, not mine.

Presumably you have to make purchases in-line with what the direction of the division is though...

 

[quickwhips]

I think mostly 2015 and forward is going to be an amazing time to buy and xbox for the exclusives. I will be getting one at that point. Mostly Gears of War, Crackdown and new Halo.

 

[Peterpan]

"Blank cheque."

His words, not mine.

When was this said? It was very recently not some years ago, I believe. Things could have changed. Who knows. Things seem to be changing, but who really knows that's why there's no point in assuming. We will never know, until Phil leaves or maybe never. But my point still stands are you sure Phil had as much power as you assume he had back then? If we looking back at the past first party head who gave us insight on how the inner-workings of Microsoft worked, why are we to assume that things weren't running the same way when Phil took charge.

 

[Steverulez]

When was this said? It was very recently not some years ago, I believe.

IGN podcast interview just before Xbox One launch iirc

 

[Triggerhappytel]

No I'm not, I want them to do something new as well, but just "another FPS", or "another racing game" doesn't really cut it.

Jesus Christ. He was using those as examples, not as final suggestions. The point being that if Turn 10 and 343i made new non-Forza or Halo games, chances are they'd be in genres both are relatively familiar with.

 

[Billybong]

maybe its just me.. but the xbox divison's 1st party studios need to step up and create new and exciting IPs and stop money hatting 3rd party for exclusives. The majority of their 1st party studios are not even proven yet, which is a cause for concern.

Black Tusks? what have they done, and yet they are given one of xbox's most prized IPs.
Rare? when are they going to stop making kinect games?
343i? A halo only studio, but not even as good as Bungie.
Lionhead? A fable only studio with each Fable being worse than previous.
Team Dakota? an ambitious title for a studio that hasn't made any games.
Press Play? makes mostly indie games.
Twisted Pixel? makes mostly indie-ish games.
Turn 10? makes yearly versions of Forza.. and that's it.
Lift London? mobile gaming? how's that going to help the x1?
LXP? not proven
Platformer Next? not proven
Good Science Studio? not poven
Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment? not poven
Leap Experience Pioneers? not proven
BigPark? not proven

it's crazy and sad when you think about how pitiful xbox's 1st party division really is. how is that exciting?

 

[Jibbed]

All I remember from that week is being massively psyched about Halo: MCC.

XB1 is inevitable for me now.

 

[Steverulez]

maybe its just me.. but the xbox divison's 1st party studios need to step up and create new and exciting IPs and stop money hatting 3rd party for exclusives..

Where are Microsoft moneyhatting third party exclusives? I don't consider independent developers like Insomniac, Remedy, Crytek and Platinum (among others) to be "third party exclusives" that are money hatted, they're developers for hire to anyone that wants to fund them and Sony/Nintendo have their fair share of those.

Outside of Titanfall (a different situation considering the funding was given to keep the game alive, sure they paid extra later but to be honest the original deal they signed was stupid imo anyway) they haven't paid for anything recently, unless you count Fighter Within...

 

[Nightengale]

Team Dakota? an ambitious title for a studio that hasn't made any games.

IMO, the challenge for Spark is less about ambition, but more about identity. As a tool, it looks to be great, but as a product, it seems to lack an identity, like Minecraft-blocks, Tearaway-papercraft, etc.

Good Science Studio? not poven

Kinect Star Wars.

Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment? not poven

Xbox Fitness, Nike+Kinect.

BigPark? not proven

Doesn't matter anymore, they're making apps now, not games.

 

[Septic360]

For a so-called glorified multimedia box, the X1 is certainly delivering on games. Last year, whilst there was nothing standout, it still had Forza 5, which was the most complete launch racer to date, Dead Rising 3, Killer Instinct and this year whilst a multiplat, it had a the big-ish shooter, Titanfall and now we get Sunset Overdrive, The Master Chief Collection (which is just epic) and Forza Horizon 2.

With Phantom Dust, Fable Legends, Scalebound and Crackdown 3 on their way, the X1 is certainly impressed.

The question is, what is the PS4 doing though? I had a massive debate with my mate in this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNw3E4TtRkQ

If it had been the other way round, I think the X1 would have been grilled. So far, its doing rather well games-wise and the future looks great.

 

[Billybong]

IMO, the challenge for Spark is less about ambition, but more about identity. As a tool, it looks to be great, but as a product, it seems to lack an identity, like Minecraft-blocks, Tearaway-papercraft, etc.



Kinect Star Wars.



Xbox Fitness, Nike+Kinect.



Doesn't matter anymore, they're making apps now, not games.

still.. does that listing make you excited? kinect games? more halo not by bungie? more gears of war not by epic? more fable and forzas? makes you wonder how much confidence xbox has in their 1st party studios when all their most ambitious games are being created by outside studios.

 

[Steverulez]

still.. does that listing make you excited? kinect games? more halo not by bungie? more gears of war not by epic? more fable and forzas? makes you wonder how much confidence xbox has in their 1st party studios when all their most ambitious games are being created by outside studios.

Im excited for Lionheads new IP, Forza is always great imo (not that I'm a huge racing fan), I'm confident in Black Tusk's Gears because Rod is in charge and I loved Halo 4 personally. Its swings and roundabouts but to be honest as long as Microsoft get great exclusive content I don't really see why specifically the first party studios themselves as such a hotly debated topic.

Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive and Scalebound are all big titles for them coming to only Xbox One, I don't think its a good representation of the state of exclusives on the console to exclude where a lot of the big games are coming from. I mean look at it this way, Microsoft own Quantum Break IP, so its not going multi platform...

Ive said myself they need to increase the size of their first party line-up but they still have a lot coming that I'm excited about.

 

[Nightengale]

still.. does that listing make you excited? kinect games? more halo not by bungie? more gears of war not by epic? more fable and forzas? makes you wonder how much confidence xbox has in their 1st party studios when all their most ambitious games are being created by outside studios.

My answer to that is that I don't really carethat much.

Sure, it's reassuring that imo, Sony and Nintendo have what I believe are the highest calibre of internal teams. But that does nothing if the games aren't announced. All it does is basically convince me that a PS4 is worth a purchase for the next 3 ND games that will eventually come to PS4, etc. But ultimately, what moves us are the announcement of the games, for real, and not so much speculation.

This is my own personal list that I make to track down the overall output of games from all platform holders that relatively interest me. http://i.imgur.com/ArAu7hW.jpg (Disclaimer, do not use as list warz, as not everything is listed there, like WiiU shovelware or SOE/MS PC games, and I accidentally listed some self-published games like DC and Below)

I mean, obviously these are all opinionated, but when I look at my own list, I see the platform holders delivering and being as strong as they've always been. Nintendo had a killer 2013 last year as far as 3DS software is concerned, and I feel like they will have the strongest fall line-up if Smash Bros hit this year. Last year's Sony killed it all-around, but they had a pretty average PS4 launch as a result of their spread of PS3/4/V support.

And as a fan of Japanese games, I actually think Sony's delivering their best Vita year with Oreshika2 and Freedom Wars hitting this year, not including other Japanese Vita games as well like Danganronpa 2, etc which aren't in the list.

All companies are delivering the games, be it developed internally or not. Of course, for MS it's definitely a case for concern when they don't own the IPs, but when they do, there's also a measure of reassurance, especially since we know Undead Labs will be making State of Decay for years to come thanks to the multi-game deal they signed.

 

[Quazar]

7-8/10 for me right now.

My problem with MS is the lack of interesting exclusives. With the 360 they were at least trying with JP market. LO, BD, IU, Tales, LR, N3, SO, KUF, DR, ES....and this brought a diverse offering to what they were doing in the west.

Ori looked like the best game out of MS E3 showings. Scaleborne seems really far away. After that MS tracks back to Halo, Fable, Forza.

I do like the new direction of Fable. As the other Fable games never really clicked with me. (Very average games IMO) Beta this fall is a great move.

I'm excited for MCC, namely Halo 5 beta.

Phantom Dust is cool, but their needs to be a better single player campaign, and do they have the talent to do it? I want a proper budget for this game this time.

Isn't Turn 10 big enough to try something else? (Moto/Wrace)

MS just needs more diversity. Hell go to some publishers and fund games they have sitting on back burner.

Or just actually let your studios do what they want after they make your Halo/Gears/Forza/Fable?

 

[Triggerhappytel]

For a so-called glorified multimedia box, the X1 is certainly delivering on games. Last year, whilst there was nothing standout, it still had Forza 5, which was the most complete launch racer to date, Dead Rising 3, Killer Instinct and this year whilst a multiplat, it had a the big-ish shooter, Titanfall and now we get Sunset Overdrive, The Master Chief Collection (which is just epic) and Forza Horizon 2.

With Phantom Dust, Fable Legends, Scalebound and Crackdown 3 on their way, the X1 is certainly impressed.

The question is, what is the PS4 doing though? I had a massive debate with my mate in this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNw3E4TtRkQ

If it had been the other way round, I think the X1 would have been grilled. So far, its doing rather well games-wise and the future looks great.

I'm guessing you're the guy on the right on that vid? Both consoles are having a pretty weak year, primarily propped up by a remake. You're way too aggressive towards the other guy considering releases for both are pretty thin, and neither of you seemed to be taking indie or digital games into consideration.

Also, while games like Phantom Dust, Crackdown and Scalebound are promising, they're not going to release before 2016. Fable Legends is probably still the better part of 18 months from release. MS are too invested in a cycle of revealing their games 2 years before launch IMO.

 

[Septic360]

I'm guessing you're the guy on the right on that vid? Both consoles are having a pretty weak year, primarily propped up by a remake. You're way too aggressive towards the other guy considering releases for both are pretty thin, and neither of you seemed to be taking indie or digital games into consideration.

Also, while games like Phantom Dust, Crackdown and Scalebound are promising, they're not going to release before 2016. Fable Legends is probably still the better part of 18 months from release. MS are too invested in a cycle of revealing their games 2 years before launch IMO.

Yeah I'm the guy on the right.

Yeah indie titles took a back seat in this. I should have clarified that this was all about the more heavy hitting exclusive titles.

Yeah I admit I was being aggressive towards him but that's only because, in the past, he has put AAA exclusives on a pedestal and I just think it was hypocritical for him to dilute their importance all of a sudden.

 

[freddy]

Yeah I'm the guy on the right.

Yeah indie titles took a back seat in this. I should have clarified that this was all about the more heavy hitting exclusive titles.

Yeah I admit I was being aggressive towards him but that's only because, in the past, he has put AAA exclusives on a pedestal and I just think it was hypocritical for him to dilute their importance all of a sudden.

Maybe next time you can have some sort of secret signal where one of you shuts the fuck up while the other is presenting their points, so as to not come off as two squabbling 12 year olds with extreme bias that would like any shite that came out, as long as it played on the console with the right logo.

 

[op_ivy]

maybe its just me.. but the xbox divison's 1st party studios need to step up and create new and exciting IPs and stop money hatting 3rd party for exclusives. The majority of their 1st party studios are not even proven yet, which is a cause for concern.

Black Tusks? what have they done, and yet they are given one of xbox's most prized IPs.
Rare? when are they going to stop making kinect games?
343i? A halo only studio, but not even as good as Bungie.
Lionhead? A fable only studio with each Fable being worse than previous.
Team Dakota? an ambitious title for a studio that hasn't made any games.
Press Play? makes mostly indie games.
Twisted Pixel? makes mostly indie-ish games.
Turn 10? makes yearly versions of Forza.. and that's it.
Lift London? mobile gaming? how's that going to help the x1?
LXP? not proven
Platformer Next? not proven
Good Science Studio? not poven
Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment? not poven
Leap Experience Pioneers? not proven
BigPark? not proven

it's crazy and sad when you think about how pitiful xbox's 1st party division really is. how is that exciting?

i'm getting a good ol' belly laugh from the highlighted. how disappointing!

 

[Nightengale]

Yeah I'm the guy on the right.

Yeah indie titles took a back seat in this. I should have clarified that this was all about the more heavy hitting exclusive titles.

Yeah I admit I was being aggressive towards him but that's only because, in the past, he has put AAA exclusives on a pedestal and I just think it was hypocritical for him to dilute their importance all of a sudden.

These kind of things are always a balance. And functionally, it's always a catch-up timetable with these kind of things.

I mean, if we looked at just 'E3' last year, MS blew the hell out of the competition. But when stretched out to the full year's announcements, suddenly Sony and Nintendo are pretty much on-par with MS because MS's content reveals post-E3 was pretty weak. Nintendo Directs never get enough credit for being honest about their stance of spreading announcements throughout the year, instead of jamming them all into specific event cycles.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Yeah I'm the guy on the right.

Yeah indie titles took a back seat in this. I should have clarified that this was all about the more heavy hitting exclusive titles.

Yeah I admit I was being aggressive towards him but that's only because, in the past, he has put AAA exclusives on a pedestal and I just think it was hypocritical for him to dilute their importance all of a sudden.

Maybe next time you can have some sort of secret signal where one of you shuts the fuck up while the other is presenting their points, so as to not come off as two squabbling 12 year olds with extreme bias that would like any shite that came out, as long as it played on the console with the right logo.

Next time it needs to be a lot more professional and have the guy in the middle mediate properly. You should both have proper points to present and discuss them fairly and maturely. Squabbling on camera is shitty to watch and you need to tone down the aggression, and the other guy needs to fabricate a better argument because it went really fucking random in places. Both biases showed in that video, and no-one came out looking good.

 

[Septic360]

Next time it needs to be a lot more professional and have the guy in the middle mediate properly. You should both have proper points to present and discuss them fairly and maturely. Squabbling on camera is shitty to watch and you need to tone down the aggression, and the other guy needs to fabricate a better argument because it went really fucking random in places. Both biases showed in that video, and no-one came out looking good.

Fair enough. Yeah I mean, it was our intention to discuss it properly but shit just got real way too fast and in fairness to the rest of the crew, they did try but we were having none of it.

After that video ended, we discussed the issue and the next two video that we filmed were a lot more professional in that regard.

We're going to have a Head to Head on certain games and my days...that will be a big challenge to moderate for anyone.

 

[Nightengale]

Fair enough. Yeah I mean, it was our intention to discuss it properly but shit just got real way too fast and in fairness to the rest of the crew, they did try but we were having none of it.

After that video ended, we discussed the issue and the next two video that we filmed were a lot more professional in that regard.

We're going to have a Head to Head on certain games and my days...that will be a big challenge to moderate for anyone.

Well, if you can't moderate it... you probably shouldn't put it up. Sorry if that sounds rude, but given that it's not a live video/stream, you kinda have the post-production leverage to manage what your group wants to share out to the community/fans.

 

[Septic360]

Well, if you can't moderate it... you probably shouldn't put it up. Sorry if that sounds rude, but given that it's not a live video/stream, you kinda have the post-production leverage to manage what your group wants to share out to the community/fans.

To be honest, I think its better to have a video where the debate (or argument) feels more natural and heated, but yeah, too much screaming and it'll be too much of a cluster fuck of nerd screaming.


You should have seen what happened a few months ago when we were at the gym. It was insane. Almost everyone in the weights section got involved in the Killzone vs Halo argument and my days...that was a spectacle. It was hilarious seeing some of the most unlikely people (huge muscle bound mofos) getting really involved in it all.

But yeah, not to drag the thread down because of our nerd-rage fuelled video.

I appreciate the feedback. We'll definitely take it on board for sure.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Fair enough. Yeah I mean, it was our intention to discuss it properly but shit just got real way too fast and in fairness to the rest of the crew, they did try but we were having none of it.

After that video ended, we discussed the issue and the next two video that we filmed were a lot more professional in that regard.

We're going to have a Head to Head on certain games and my days...that will be a big challenge to moderate for anyone.

Rather than having a PS4 vs. Xbone discussion which clearly gets people riled up, how about you discuss each platform individually? I'm assuming you're both mature enough to talk about your non-favoured console and have a serious discussion without it spilling into randomness or arguing.

I hope you're finding some of this useful. I'm not trying to bitch about your channel, but offer some useful feedback.

 

[Septic360]

Rather than having a PS4 vs. Xbone discussion which clearly gets people riled up, how about you discuss each platform individually? I'm assuming you're both mature enough to talk about your non-favoured console and have a serious discussion without it spilling into randomness or arguing.

I hope you're finding some of this useful. I'm not trying to bitch about your channel, but offer some useful feedback.

Well we cover a whole range of stuff but the Head to Head segment is designed to get people riled up. I know it sounds horrible and like click bait (because to an extent, that's what it is) but its not just something we want to do for the sake of hits. It stems from the kind of discussions and debates we normally have.

I mean, we're just very outspoken. I'm not a fan of any particular console. In fact, you'll see me here being interviewed by ITN news on the PS4 launch event and summing up why I thought (back then and still to an extent today) that the PS4 is the console of choice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuzkQSNSzJg

I'm the guy at 0:23 (in white) and at 1:59.

Yeah I am definitely finding your feedback useful mate. I'm even talking to the rest of the team about what you and the others on here are saying. We'll still churn out the more adversarial stuff but try and balance it out with what you're saying.

 

[Billybong]

To be honest, I'm always a little confused when people point to Sony WWS as an amazing set of world class studios. I can definitely understand Naughty Dog having that sort of acclaim, but it seems like their reputation seems to simply spill onto the other teams, that really haven't been putting out much to deserve it.

seriously? Polyphonal? Hate GT all you want but 70mil for the series = proven. Santa Monica? GOW series, one that most hack&slasher do formula copycat from now? San Diego? Best selling MLB simulation on any console period! Sucker Punch? Sly cooper and Infamous series.. Media Molecule? LBP.. what Project sparks hopes to become. Evolution Studios - Motorstorm..

Sony has a much more capable and diverse 1st party portfolio than anything MS offers. They also have proven track records with the games they release, much like Nintendo. Just because you aren't a fan of their games doesn't mean their games don't sell, because apparently, they sell just fine and very well. Let me know when 343 gets to Guerillas level first before talking about comparisons to Bungie. It's not hard to take someone else's franchise (Bungie's) and claim their fame (343) when you did nothing to move that series forward.. it's one thing to make your own name in the gaming world.. it's another thing to be propped up and claim the fame while literally doing nothing.

 

[Synth]

seriously? Polyphonal? Hate GT all you want but 70mil for the series = proven. Santa Monica? GOW series, one that most hack&slasher do formula copycat from now? San Diego? Best selling MLB simulation on any console period! Sucker Punch? Sly cooper and Infamous series.. Media Molecule? LBP.. what Project sparks hopes to become. Evolution Studios - Motorstorm..

Sony has a much more capable and diverse 1st party portfolio than anything MS offers. They also have proven track records with the games they release, much like Nintendo. Just because you aren't a fan of their games doesn't mean their games don't sell, because apparently, they sell just fine and very well. Let me know when 343 gets to Guerillas level first before talking about comparisons to Bungie. It's not hard to take someone else's franchise (Bungie's) and claim their fame (343) when you did nothing to move that series forward.. it's one thing to make your own name in the gaming world.. it's another thing to be propped up and claim the fame while literally doing nothing.

I'm not saying the studio's aren't good. I'm saying that I don't see how they're viewed as some incredible anomalies compared to the rest of the industry, in the way that many here portray them as.

I hardly hate GT, but as I mentioned before Forza outscored it all last gen effortlessly, yet people are nowhere near as quick to laud Turn 10 in the way the way they do Polyphony Digital. They're a great studio, but they no longer stand alone, and haven't for years. Sure GT massively outsells Forza... but I'm guessing you won't apply that same logic when it comes to something like MotorStorm.

As for 343i and Guerilla Games. It's not really fair to claim that they've done nothing to move the series forward considering the team houses some prominent members of the original team. Killzone has never been on Halo's level regardless of if we're talking about 343i or Bungie, and 343i would have to do much worse than Halo 4 in order to draw any real comparisons to Shadowfall. If 343i actually gets to Guerilla's level, then I am fucking done with them tbh...

Every publisher has studios pumping out great games. For every God of War, there's a Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden (sans 3), or Devil May Cry. For every Infamous, there's a Crackdown, Saints Row or potentially Sunset Overdrive. For every Sly Cooper, there's... well... a shitload of games to be quite honest. For every Motorstorm, there's a Project Gotham Racing 4, Blur, Forza Horizon, Burnout Paradise etc. These games don't tower over all their competition in the way that Nintendo games tend to, or Naughty Dog can be credited to, or Bungie did with Halo. They're simply good games, from good studios. Nothing more special than what many other publishers offer imo. Naughty Dog and Media Molecule are pretty much the only ones this claim can be applied to... and as we've established, MM only appears to have a single competitor who's first game is nowhere near complete.

It's really really easy to create shortlists of great games a publisher puts out. Sega, a supposedly awful publisher had Valkyria Chronicles, Yakuza 4, Bayonetta, Binary Domain, Total War 2, Sonic Generations, All Stars Racing Transformed and more last gen. EA had Mass Effect, Battlefield BC2, Crysis, Dead Space, Dragon Age Origins, Burnout Paradise, Mirror's Edge, Skate and more last gen. Microsoft had Forza Horizon, Alan Wake, B&K: Nuts and Bolts, Lost Odyssey, Viva Piñata: Trouble in Paradise, Crackdown, Project Gotham 4, Forza Motorsport 4, Gears of War, Halo 3 and more last gen. Konami had Metal Gear Solid and... well... anyway you get the point. Pretty much everyone is putting out good shit. The difference with some studios is that basically nobody is able to compete with them in their chosen field. This would apply to quite a bit of Nintendo's teams, and almost none of anybody else's. Sony included.

 

[Billybong]

I'm not saying the studio's aren't good. I'm saying that I don't see how they're viewed as some incredible anomalies compared to the rest of the industry, in the way that many here portray them as.

I hardly hate GT, but as I mentioned before Forza outscored it all last gen effortlessly, yet people are nowhere near as quick to laud Turn 10 in the way the way they do Polyphony Digital. They're a great studio, but they no longer stand alone, and haven't for years. Sure GT massively outsells Forza... but I'm guessing you won't apply that same logic when it comes to something like MotorStorm.

As for 343i and Guerilla Games. It's not really fair to claim that they've done nothing to move the series forward considering the team houses some prominent members of the original team. Killzone has never been on Halo's level regardless of if we're talking about 343i or Bungie, and 343i would have to do much worse than Halo 4 in order to draw any real comparisons to Shadowfall. If 343i actually gets to Guerilla's level, then I am fucking done with them tbh...

Every publisher has studios pumping out great games. For every God of War, there's a Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden (sans 3), or Devil May Cry. For every Infamous, there's a Crackdown, Saints Row or potentially Sunset Overdrive. For every Sly Cooper, there's... well... a shitload of games to be quite honest. For every Motorstorm, there's a Project Gotham Racing 4, Blur, Forza Horizon, Burnout Paradise etc. These games don't tower over all their competition in the way that Nintendo games tend to, or Naughty Dog can be credited to, or Bungie did with Halo. They're simply good games, from good studios. Nothing more special than what many other publishers offer imo. Naughty Dog and Media Molecule are pretty much the only ones this claim can be applied to... and as we've established, MM only appears to have a single competitor who's first game is nowhere near complete.

It's really really easy to create shortlists of great games a publisher puts out. Sega, a supposedly awful publisher had Valkyria Chronicles, Yakuza 4, Bayonetta, Binary Domain, Total War 2, Sonic Generations, All Stars Racing Transformed and more last gen. EA had Mass Effect, Battlefield BC2, Crysis, Dead Space, Dragon Age Origins, Burnout Paradise, Mirror's Edge, Skate and more last gen. Microsoft had Forza Horizon, Alan Wake, B&K: Nuts and Bolts, Lost Odyssey, Viva Piñata: Trouble in Paradise, Crackdown, Project Gotham 4, Forza Motorsport 4, Gears of War, Halo 3 and more last gen. Konami had Metal Gear Solid and... well... anyway you get the point. Pretty much everyone is putting out good shit. The difference with some studios is that basically nobody is able to compete with them in their chosen field. This would apply to quite a bit of Nintendo's teams, and almost none of anybody else's. Sony included.

the difference is these are from Sony's 1st party studios though.. how are 3rd party dudes relevant to the thread or what was discussed? all those great titles you listed for MS were created outside of MS's studios, other than forza and fable. give me something substantial from a MS studio that's not just Forza, Halo, or GOW and then I'll get excited. Also,if you want to compare franchises.. that's easy to do too..
Also, saying you got some of the guys from Bungie in 343 isn't the same thing as 343 able to replicate Bungie. Like I said.. until 343 can do something different than a borrowed/handed over formula, then I'll give them props. 343 could literally make a turd fest titled "Halo something" and it'll still sell by association. that doesn't equate to being a great studio at all. i'll restate, "it's one thing to make your own name in the gaming world.. it's another thing to be propped up and claim the fame while literally doing nothing." so for the time being, if you want.. Bungie>Guerilla>>343.. KZ might not be as polished in the story department, but GG has made a pretty solid game and solid series.

 

[lndrld cold]

Not really.
I think Crackdown, The Phantom Dust reboot, and anything from Platinum are awesome announcements but realistically they are far off.
They are sitting on a gold mine of games in their profile but I feel like some of their real 1st party studios are getting worse instead of better.
Lionhead, Twisted Pixel, Rare, and Turn 10 are all coming off games that did not meet most people's expectations. Plus we have some studios like LXP that are still a mystery. Even though I loved Halo 4, I realize I am in the minority.
In my opinion, they really need to invest in some studios or at least some top talent for the ones they have now. (Similar to what they did with Ferguson at Black Tusk.)
But thinking of the franchises that are on hold?:
Kameo
Banjo
Conker
Rallisport
PGR
Shadowrun (The FPS is criminally overrated.)
Quantum Redshift
Jet Force Gemini
Crimson Skies
Mechassault
Blinx or Voodoo Vince.

It almost makes one angry.

 

[Synth]

the difference is these are from Sony's 1st party studios though.. how are 3rd party dudes relevant to the thread? all those great titles you listed for MS were created outside of MS's studios, other than forza and fable.. now if you want to compare franchises though.. that's easy to do too..

It's because it doesn't matter if the studios are owned by MS or not. Hell, I'm not even really seeing this as a MS vs Sony thing. The point is that there is a wealth of development studios that are easily on par with most of Sony's stable. I should probably also exclude Polyphony actually, because outside of them there's only really Turn 10 and maybe Slightly Mad Studios that are competing. However Evolution isn't some godly studio making games far above those of other teams. Neither is Sucker Punch or Guerilla Games. If these were third party studios, releasing the same quality of games they would simply blend in with the majority of other third party studios (and in Evolution's case better studios have closed down in that situation). Naughty Dog are different, and if they were a third party studio, they'd probably be seen as some Rockstar Game level studio... but they are the only one. After them it's basically all preferences.

 

[lndrld cold]

the difference is these are from Sony's 1st party studios though.. how are 3rd party dudes relevant to the thread or what was discussed? all those great titles you listed for MS were created outside of MS's studios, other than forza and fable. give me something substantial from a MS studio that's not just Forza, Halo, or GOW and then I'll get excited. Also,if you want to compare franchises.. that's easy to do too..
Also, saying you got some of the guys from Bungie in 343 isn't the same thing as 343 able to replicate Bungie. Like I said.. until 343 can do something different than a borrowed/handed over formula, then I'll give them props. i'll restate, "it's one thing to make your own name in the gaming world.. it's another thing to be propped up and claim the fame while literally doing nothing." so for the time being, if you want.. Bungie>Guerilla>>343.. KZ might not be as polished in the story department, but GG made a pretty solid game.

Guerilla better than 343i?
Yeah. Call back when the shuttle lands.

 

[Billybong]

Guerilla better than 343i?
Yeah. Call back when the shuttle lands.

seriously? call me when 343i makes something other than Bungie's Halo.. get it right.. 343i is not Bungie.

 

[Billybong]

It's because it doesn't matter if the studios are owned by MS or not. Hell, I'm not even really seeing this as a MS vs Sony thing. The point is that there is a wealth of development studios that are easily on par with most of Sony's stable. I should probably also exclude Polyphony actually, because outside of them there's only really Turn 10 and maybe Slightly Mad Studios that are competing. However Evolution isn't some godly studio making games far above those of other teams. Neither is Sucker Punch or Guerilla Games. If these were third party studios, releasing the same quality of games they would simply blend in with the majority of other third party studios (and in Evolution's case better studios have closed down in that situation). Naughty Dog are different, and if they were a third party studio, they'd probably be seen as some Rockstar Game level studio... but they are the only one. After them it's basically all preferences.

it's not a MS vs Sony thing. I'm literally discussing disappointment with MS's studios because of their lack of sw. see what Sony is pumping out from internal studios? See what Nintendo is pumping out from internal studios? now tell me you're satisfied with what MS pumps out from their internal studios. It's crazy if you are excited for what they have to offer. granted MS will buy up an occasional exclusive, but it's like there is no faith in their own studios delivering.

 

[RK128]

I though Microsoft killed it this E3 ! Showing off such a verity of exclusives (or at least exclusive in the 'only on this console' and coming to PC too since) that are colorful and unique was really great (Ori looked stunning, Platinum's new game looks sick and Sunset Overdrive is an awesome return to the Insomniac I loved from the Ratchet and Clank Future days ).

....The thing is, I don't think this will last .

We all remember the 360, right? How after having unique games for years they suddenly stopped making them and started to focus on the central 'cycle' of IP (Halo/Gears/Foza/Fable/Kinect)? That might happen again, but the only different will be that one of the new IP's (Sunset Overdrive and the return of Crackdown/Phantom Dust maybe) will be added to this cycle.

But that is just the cynic in my saying that; Sony doesn't really look that much better in my eyes (their E3 this year was very disappointing to me sadly .....) and Nintendo looks surprisingly really strong in comparison to Microsoft and Sony.

I say lets see what happens after two more years; if this 'cycle' of theirs returns, then sadly I will be upset. If it doesn't return, then great ! Shows us that Microsoft really cares about the gamers .

 

[Miles X]

seriously? call me when 343i makes something other than Bungie's Halo.. get it right.. 343i is not Bungie.

Who said they have to be Bungie to be better? Also your list has an agenda, hence you missed a lot out.

Lionhead is working on new IP, it's pretty obvious Rare are all but done with Kinect Sports for now. Perhaps not Kinect, but since when did that inherently mean = bad game? The original KS was awesome.

Lift London are working on games akin to Minecraft, Limbo ect, MS don't want them to just be some little mobile studio, they want mid level breakout hits.

Also, one of your complaints is unproven? Well duh? MS is doing exactly what you want but you're just saying unproven this bad? Come back when they've released a game and give an informed opinion, until then you need to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're at least creating and building new studios and that the games could turn out very good.

MS have strong second party relations to boot. Playground, Remedy, Ruffian, Iron Galaxy who all work on first party IP. As well as MS outsourcing their iconic IP to third party devs.

 

[lndrld cold]

seriously? call me when 343i makes something other than Bungie's Halo.. get it right.. 343i is not Bungie.

I am not saying 343i makes great games. But Halo 4 was at least decent. If it did not have the 'halo' name it would of most likely fared better to fans to be honest. But no one would call it bad.
Meanwhile GG has made some polished turds. Shadow Fall isn't even their worst pile of shit.They did Shellshock Nam' 67. At least 343's first effort was competent. And since people are so impressed with GG's graphics and technical achievements. let's be honest, Halo 4 was a visual stunner. Not many teams could of pulled that off.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

MS have strong second party relations to boot. Playground, Remedy, Ruffian, Iron Galaxy who all work on first party IP. As well as MS outsourcing their iconic IP to third party devs.

Mentioning 2nd parties and not listing Undead Labs is a disservice! State of Decay is arguably one of the big IPs for MS going forward.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

In terms of games it was pretty good. Not much from actual first party studios though.

Pretty much this. Other than Kamiya's game and an indie game i saw, everything that wasn't part of the recycled Gears, Halo, Forza and Fable I didn't really care for. Then again, neither company blew it out of the water for me with 3/5 conferences being pretty good, Nintendo doing very well and EA below average.

I disagree. Management and restructuring of first-party studios, to me, falls on Phil Spencer, as head of first-party studios.

It's pretty fucking hilarious that everyone is pinning everything wrong on Mattrick like he was the only one making bad decisions and that everyone was going against his ideas.

 

[Miles X]

Mentioning 2nd parties and not listing Undead Labs is a disservice! State of Decay is arguably one of the big IPs for MS going forward.

Ha, I didn't forget about them I just couldn't remember their name!

 

[Synth]

seriously? call me when 343i makes something other than Bungie's Halo.. get it right.. 343i is not Bungie.

343i aren't Bungie no... but they sure as hell seem to be better than Guerilla still.

it's not a MS vs Sony thing. I'm literally discussing disappointment with MS's studios because of their lack of sw. see what Sony is pumping out from internal studios? See what Nintendo is pumping out from internal studios? now tell me you're satisfied with what MS pumps out from their internal studios. It's crazy if you are excited for what they have to offer. granted MS will buy up an occasional exclusive, but it's like there is no faith in their own studios delivering.

I guess I'm not too concerned where my games are coming from. I'm far more satisfied with what MS has shown than what Sony has actually.. and this isn't even a recent situation. I've had both a 360 and PS3 since near each machines launch, and I outright preferred the games MS published last gen, to those Sony published. Many of those games were essentially contracted in (such as PGR4), but that hardly makes any difference to me when it comes time to play. I'm happy that Double Helix, and then Iron Galaxy were brought in to do the new Killer Instinct rather than having Rare take another crack at it. MS is definitely light on internal teams, but I don't think its important when you can simply grab the teams that are best suited for a particular game, rather than owning a set of teams that are primarily good at one of two types of games. If Sony were to revive Eternal Champions tomorrow to go against Killer Instinct, would they be better served by giving it to one of their internal teams, or bringing in someone that knows what the fuck they're actually doing when it comes to fighters? Would I rather see Turn 10 pulled off from Forza Motorsport 6, so they can make Horizon (under a non-Forza name to appease those that complain about it still being Forza), or am I happy for them to bring in Playground games to get it done, so I still get a new polished, actually complete Forza Motorsport in under 5 friggin years?

I have both an Xbox One and a PS4 at the moment... and I honestly can't even tell you when I last used the PS4. The game I bought it for (Driveclub) is now running pretty much a year late, and other than Resogun there was basically fuck all for me. E3 certainly hasn't changed anything in the its favour for me, and now the X1 will have Forza Horizon 2 before I even get Driveclub. Internal studios make great list war ammunition, but I'd rather just have shit to play really. Why sweat Evolution being an internal studio when in my opinion Playground Games and Bizarre both produced racers that I'd consider superior last gen (I fucking loved MotorStorm though, don't get me wrong).

 

[BruiserBear]

Based on what we know right now, these are exclusives we can safely predict right.

2014-
Sunset Overdrive
Forza Horizon 2
Master Chief Collection

2015-
Quantum Break
Halo 5
Forza Motorsport 6
Fable Legends

2016-
Crackdown 3
Gears of War



It's all very predictable, but if you're a fan of Halo, Forza, Gears, and Fable it's a pretty great schedule already laid out. Of course there will be more games added to those 2015/16 lists.

 

[Steverulez]

Based on what we know right now, these are exclusives we can safely predict right.

2014-
Sunset Overdrive
Forza Horizon 2
Master Chief Collection

2015-
Quantum Break
Halo 5
Forza Motorsport 6
Fable Legends

2016-
Crackdown 3
Gears of War

It's all very predictable, but if you're a fan of Halo, Forza, Gears, and Fable it's a pretty great schedule already laid out. Of course there will be more games added to those 2015/16 lists.

You've missed out Scalebound which is either 2015 or 2016 presumably.

Also, you've made a list of exclusives but its missing Ori, D4 and Phantom Dust.

Would be a very stupid move of MS to ignore key franchises that sell well, they have have a good mix, in my opinion. If you're not a fan of Halo, Forza, Gears and Fable then there is other stuff to play as well, I'm sure they will announce other titles too.

 

[Billybong]

I am not saying 343i makes great games. But Halo 4 was at least decent. If it did not have the 'halo' name it would of most likely fared better to fans to be honest. But no one would call it bad.
Meanwhile GG has made some polished turds. Shadow Fall isn't even their worst pile of shit.They did Shellshock Nam' 67. At least 343's first effort was competent. And since people are so impressed with GG's graphics and technical achievements. let's be honest, Halo 4 was a visual stunner. Not many teams could of pulled that off.

That's the thing tho.. 343 worked on an already established franchise. They didn't have to do anything different, didnt have to innovate, or create from what was already there and given to them.. Make it pretty.. Dress it in halo and it would of sold regardless. Until they actually create something that can stand on its own legs then I beg to differ. Let ms take off the chains for 343 to do something other than halo and see what they can do.
You knock gg.. But there's a reason why kz has been around since ps2 and will continue to do so. There's a reason why gg is one of Sony's established studios. MS gave halo to 343 and all of a sudden their a premier studio? That's like ms giving epics GOW to black tusk and folks like you claiming Black Tusk is a premier studio. I don't buy it. All they've done is prove they can continue something that's already there.

 

[BruiserBear]

You've missed out Scalebound which is either 2015 or 2016 presumably.

Also, you've made a list of exclusives but its missing Ori, D4 and Phantom Dust.

Would be a very stupid move of MS to ignore key franchises that sell well, they have have a good mix, in my opinion. If you're not a fan of Halo, Forza, Gears and Fable then there is other stuff to play as well, I'm sure they will announce other titles too.

Thanks for pointing out those games. I easily forgot about them as they're not of any interest to me, but yeah, they've already got a lot of games in the pipeline for those 2015/16.

 

[StealthGoblin]

So many, huh? There are three announced Microsoft games that may hit in 2016 (although some of them might even appear in 2015): Scalebound, Crackdown and Phantom Dust. Meanwhile they have plenty of 2014 first party releases (Sunset Overdrive, Forza Horizon 2, Halo: The Master Chief Collection, D4, Project Spark, Ori, Project Totem and Happy Wars, together with betas for Halo 5 and Fable Legends), and some confirmed 2015 games in the pipeline (Quantum Break, Fable Legends, and Halo 5).

Sony's release schedule for 2014 is not any better, to put it lightly, (LittleBigPlanet 3, Driveclub, Last of Us Remastered, Planetside 2, Hohokum, Helldivers, and Guns Up!) they have a comparable amount of announced 2015 games (Uncharted 4, The Order, and Bloodborne), with the Ratchet & Clank remaster announced with not even a CG trailer, and Everquest Next, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, Rime, and Shadow of the Beast practically missing in action, and releasing who knows when.

These are the games out of those lists I'll be getting. Neither line up has much for me.

Sony's is total shit for me until Bloodborne hits. I like the idea of The Order, but gameplay looks quite average and narrow, though its on my pre-order list because of the setting and my trust in RAD.

I don't like Halo, in fact I hate it. I don't like Forza, I don't like the look of Sunset Overdrive etc. I don't even like Gears or Crackdown. The entire conference was pretty awful for me.

The only thing Microsoft have announced I want is literally Quantum Break.

I'm in the minority I know.

 

[Synth]

That's the thing tho.. 343 worked on an already established franchise. They didn't have to do anything different, didnt have to innovate, or create from what was already there and given to them.. Make it pretty.. Dress it in halo and it would of sold regardless. Until they actually create something that can stand on its own legs then I beg to differ. Let ms take off the chains for 343 to do something other than halo and see what they can do.
You knock gg.. But there's a reason why kz has been around since ps2 and will continue to do so. There's a reason why gg is one of Sony's established studios. MS gave halo to 343 and all of a sudden their a premier studio? That's like ms giving epics GOW to black tusk and folks like you claiming Black Tusk is a premier studio. I don't buy it. All they've done is prove they can continue something that's already there.

I actually do think it flags them as a premiere studio actually. 343i was BUILT to make Halo. They weren't a random set of developers floating around the halls that MS then tossed Halo onto. The fact that MS wants them doing Halo says a lot on its own. Do you think they'd give Halo to Rare for example? Fuck no, it's too valuable an IP to get PDZ'd. They're only going to give that IP to what they feels is the best set of people they can find for it. It's a similar thing with Black Tusk. Gears is still pretty important to MS, so they're going to be selective as to who works on the next iteration. If it was as simple as throwing the IP at any random dev, then they'd probably just let one of the many other studios they've worked with in the past handle it.

As for GG again, yea there's a reason KZ is still around. It's probably the same reason Fable is still around. It makes enough to be worth making another, and they probably don't have a lot of ideas of what else to have the studio do really. The mere extended existence of an IP doesn't make the studio that makes it amazing.. Sonic Team (love them on their good days) should make that clear.

 

[wapplew]

That's the thing tho.. 343 worked on an already established franchise. They didn't have to do anything different, didnt have to innovate, or create from what was already there and given to them.. Make it pretty.. Dress it in halo and it would of sold regardless. Until they actually create something that can stand on its own legs then I beg to differ. Let ms take off the chains for 343 to do something other than halo and see what they can do.
You knock gg.. But there's a reason why kz has been around since ps2 and will continue to do so. There's a reason why gg is one of Sony's established studios. MS gave halo to 343 and all of a sudden their a premier studio? That's like ms giving epics GOW to black tusk and folks like you claiming Black Tusk is a premier studio. I don't buy it. All they've done is prove they can continue something that's already there.

343 and Black Tusk both made up by industry veteran, those individual come from proven studio with proven track record.
Besides not every studio need to work on new things to prove themselves,all Retro work are base on Metriod and Donkey Kong, I would rate them as premier studio.
I'm sure what 343 and Black tusk working will turn out good, at very least will look good.