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[Esch]

What the hell?

I mean this in the gross national product/trade sense. not the you're a lazy bastard sense.

Yeah, about that...

http://business-econ.blogspot.com/2010/05/productivity-gap-between-us-and-oecd.html

Yeah, im not surprised you guys are given your better working conditions and your efficient cultures. I'm saying that it's not enough (for you).

We tend no to panic about the opinions of people on the internet.

On top of that, panic is pointless, we have endured a shit ton in the past 500 years, long before the USofA was founded.

The end of US hegemony should be a bigger concern for you guys really, you consume far more than the rest of the world and have more entitlement issues.

Yeah, I suppose you guys have seen economic crashes and resultant wars before, point taken. The end of US hegemony is scaring a lot of people, but effectively we don't care because we still hold all the cards. We fail economically and the world is fucked. We can't really ever be fucked with from a military standpoint. And most of the new generation doesn't care about foreign intervention and is more interested in a sustainable america anyway. We still have gobs of natural resources. And people ARE scared.

 

[Synless]

I don't work 60 hours a week and I don't have any college loans from a decade ago. Talk about stupid stereotypes.

It's going to be a true one for me. To pay off my loans will take me no less than 5.8 years at $1000 a month. Problem is, I don't pay even half that because I can't afford to yet and haven't found work in my field since I graduated.

 

[jaxword]

I thought bare titties only were okay in New Orleans?

I think the New Orleans police know they'd have a citywide riot on their hands if they tried to genuinely shut down the boob shows.

Regardless of what the MORAL GUARDIANS have to say, a few nipples versus a city on fire is probably a safe exchange.

 

[el retorno]

I thought bare titties only were okay in New Orleans?

Are you referring to pornography? Or walking around without a shirt?

And in New Orleans you can get a citation for flashing. There are other cities though. I think there was just a thread on it.

 

[Gustav]

Are you referring to pornography? Or walking around without a shirt?

And in New Orleans you can get a citation for flashing. There are other cities though. I think there was just a thread on it.

Bare titties. On the beach, in the street, in public.

 

[Prez]

Yeah, about that...

http://business-econ.blogspot.com/2010/05/productivity-gap-between-us-and-oecd.html

Also, I haven't seen many European gaffers who browse GAF during work hours. I've seen some US gaffers who admitted to spending most of their work day browsing GAF.

 

[el retorno]

Bare titties. On the beach, in the street, in public.

Depends on where you are. Same thing in Europe.

 

[bengraven]

Here's what I don't understand -- none of the good things you've mentioned are at all unique to the U.S.

And none of the bad either, so what's the issue?

And there are some good things you can't get anywhere else: real Southern barbeque and NY style pizza.

I try to tell people who are visiting Chicago to also go check out Wisconsin, or at least some of the forest preserves and sites around the North and NW suburbs. And to avoid McDonald's, Mars/Hershey's, etc. because there are high quality local versions of everything in the U.S. too, just like in Europe.

That's exactly it.

Check out Yellowstone. Drive through the mountainous areas of Tennessee or Kentucky. Maybe you'll be bored, but the vast prairies of my home of southwest MN or eastern SD are beautiful to some people - my wife is a lifelong Floridian and yet found it gorgeous. The Grand Canyon is not something you see in the majority of the world. The semi-arid parts of Colorado and Wyoming are awesome to drive through with their little cowboy souvenir shops, mountains on the horizon, and super fucking nice people every where you go.

Sure, the south is "bad" but if you're going to Florida or Louisiana check out a mom and pop bbq place. Shit, if you see a black man on the side of the road and he's got a grill and a sign advertising bbq, fucking stop and buy some bbq. His setup may look unsanitary but I don't know anyone who's gotten food poisoning from a roadside grill. The best ribs and chicken I ever had were on the side of the road, with an oven and grill sitting in the back of a beat up pickup truck. My wife's family grew up in a bad part of Orlando and would actually drive to the WORST parts because they had the best bbq. My FIL knew this guy named Mr. Geans who sat at the crossroads of a dirt road with his grill and an old wood burning stove - guy looked like he could barely make ends meet but he would cook up huge amounts of bbq chicken and ribs and his homemade sauce...and he would put cheap Wonderbread over the food to insulate it for the drive home and when you got home that bread was soaked in bbq sauce and apparently orgasmically good.

As I said earlier, I'm a diehard liberal on the most extreme level and I have a problem with people who use their patriotism for a crutch, but at the same time seeing people just basing their opinions on an entire country because of what they see on TV is ridiculous - even moreso when the country is being compared to NK or Iran (which, granted, I haven't seen much of in this thread).

 

[SteveWD40]

Yeah, I suppose you guys have seen economic crashes and resultant wars before, point taken. The end of US hegemony is scaring a lot of people, but effectively we don't care because we still hold all the cards. We fail economically and the world is fucked. We can't really ever be fucked with from a military standpoint. And most of the new generation doesn't care about foreign intervention and is more interested in a sustainable america anyway. We still have gobs of natural resources.

America.

Oh and the attitudes and resilience of your citizens is what matters, the US wouldn't have lasted one week with rationing ala WW2 Britain. Unless you find enough oil to allow everyone in the US to drive their oversized people carriers down to the corner to buy processed food expect riots.

 

[Prez]

And none of the bad either, so what's the issue?

And there are some good things you can't get anywhere else: real Southern barbeque and NY style pizza.

And there are no good things in other countries you can't get anywhere else. Right.

 

[Seraphinianus]

I'd argue that most of Europe is more "free" than the US. With the exception of few things, besides firearms and the like. Not things I really want us to be more "free" on tbh lol.

yeah, it was nice not having to look over my shoulder when buying weed. or knowing that it was okay for me to have it and smoke it anywhere in public in Prague. That was really the only major difference I felt though.

On the other hand, I've never seen so many cops in my life as I did along the riverfront in Vienna. There was a soccer game there that day and easily a hundred+ cops all along the way, many with riot gear. Maybe there were some protests too? I don't know, but it felt really weird to me-- I felt pretty claustrophobic, like something was gonna happen and that I shouldn't hang out in the more congested parts. Seemed like complete overkill and left a bad impression on me, but then there were a lot of packs of rambunctious looking drunks around, which also left pretty bad impression.

but it was worth it for the H.R. Giger exhibit at the Kunst Haus.

 

[Kabouter]

What do most Americans think living in Europe is like? Do they think Europe has no freedom and culture? That cheap education and free health care must be a living hell?

Feel free to also inform us what living in 'Europe' is like. Because I find myself unable to judge fifty wildly different countries, even though I'm European myself. I'm quite confident that living in Moldova is rather different from living in Iceland, and living in Russia is not exactly the same as living in Portugal.

 

[Slayven]

America.

Oh and the attitudes and resilience of your citizens is what matters, the US wouldn't have lasted one week with rationing ala WW2 Britain. Unless you find enough oil to allow everyone in the US to drive their oversized people carriers down to the corner to buy processed food expect riots.

Would the Britain of today last longer?

 

[bengraven]

And there are no good things in other countries you can't get anywhere else. Right.

And I never said that as well. You're putting words in my mouth.

 

[el retorno]

Feel free to also inform us what living in 'Europe' is like. Because I find myself unable to judge fifty wildly different countries, even though I'm European myself. I'm quite confident that living in Moldova is rather different from living in Iceland, and living in Russia is not exactly the same as living in Portugal.

When Americans say Europe they mean Western Europe 9 times out of 10. So there aren't 50 different countries.

And Doesn't the same apply when talking about Americans? Why do American's in Hawaii have to deal with people talking about rednecks? There are 50 different US states.

 

[Stet]

And I never said that as well. You're putting words in my mouth.

But jealousy implies that there's something outsiders are missing that makes them angry. Why would the root cause be jealousy if there's literally nothing to be jealous about?

 

[nib95]

I'd call it "American-guilt" - it seems to be what progressives have moved on to from "white-guilt." That's not to say that we don't have our flaws, but then again every country does. America is the one place where, no matter where you come from or what you look like, there is someone with a similar history who has "made it" - that is the inspiration of America.

Progressives lol. But honestly, reading your post leaves me dumbfounded. We have a lot of (negative) quotes about Patriotism here in the UK (along with positive one's too I should add), but what you said about everyone sharing a similar history and "making it". Well, it's a load of rubbish lol. Most of the country hasn't made it at all, and much don't share a similar history either. It's relatively diverse. If a large portion of whatever country is struggling financially, education or job wise, especially grossly compared to a small elite (which has "made it") how can they be inspired by those who have in essence, not made it at all, just been there? This is the thing with patriotism, it should be great, but it's actually usually stupid. People using farcical ideologies to try and polish up outdated viewpoints.

Freedoms. Every one making it. Lol. One is something most (all?) of the Western world now has or has a better version of, and the other is simply not true.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Hey I like Americans, they have rockets and movie cameras.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

This is the difference between pre-9/11 and post-9/11 America.

We're still the fucking best. Other countries have "caught up", but we still are the most powerful and influential country in the world.

 

[sflufan]

Feel free to also inform us what living in 'Europe' is like. Because I find myself unable to judge fifty wildly different countries, even though I'm European myself. I'm quite confident that living in Moldova is rather different from living in Iceland, and living in Russia is not exactly the same as living in Portugal.

Which is one of the reasons why the experiment with the euro is foundering at the moment.

 

[SteveWD40]

Would the Britain of today last longer?

Ah you edited it (said of the UK at first which threw me).

Yes. As long as during WW2? no, but we still have a smidgen of the character we had back then.

 

[Evlar]

What do most Americans think living in Europe is like? Do they think Europe has no freedom and culture? That cheap education and free health care must be a living hell?

I'm not "most Americans", but I'll take a stab at this. I grew up in the northern Midwest, the most inland part of the US. No one in my immediate family had ever traveled to Europe; the closest was probably a great uncle by marriage, who had been a bombardier during WW2. Other than that, Europe was the "old country" where my ancestors migrated away from around 180 years ago (give or take several decades for different branches of the family tree). So on the one hand you have the experience of Europe as a growing pile of rubble, and on the other dim memory of the Metternich era. Further, my parents were conservative, so there was a sense of distrust toward "socialist" Europe.

Some of my childhood impressions would probably include:

1. Europeans were generally poor. Not poor like the Chinese (always the gold standard of poverty among 20th century Americans), but certainly lacking in many basic conveniences that Americans enjoy; central air conditioning, the most modern appliances, supermarkets, cable television, and so forth.
2. Europeans had "less freedom". This was always kind of vague (which freedoms did they lack, precisely?) but seemed to indicate that their political systems were plagued with cronyism... which isn't exactly a lack of "freedom", but a lack of political power- this opinion on Europe is simply bizarre given the ineffectiveness of the US political process, but we couldn't see that clearly. There was also a feeling that Europeans were oppressed by their "socialist" governments by excessive taxes and regulations.
3. Europeans were a little dirty. We heard that bathing was less frequent, body odor more tolerated, that women didn't shave their legs or armpits, and so on. In a similar vein, it was understood that European social mores were less strict than American. The symbols of this liberal sexual attitude were the topless beaches along the Riviera.
4. Nevertheless, there was still a certain European nostalgia. European cuisine was held in high regard. European art and architecture were broadly admired. Walt Disney made his fortune selling kitschy renditions of European folk stories, set in vaguely pre-industrial European landscapes, as children's fare for American audiences. We were confused and disturbed by modern Europe but liked the comforting familiarity of "old" Europe.

 

[Rei_Toei]

Feel free to also inform us what living in 'Europe' is like. Because I find myself unable to judge fifty wildly different countries, even though I'm European myself. I'm quite confident that living in Moldova is rather different from living in Iceland, and living in Russia is not exactly the same as living in Portugal.

And living in San Fran is probably quite different then somewhere smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt .

This thread started with such as simplistic assumption, can't really take it seriously.

 

[Esch]

America.

Oh and the attitudes and resilience of your citizens is what matters, the US wouldn't have lasted one week with rationing ala WW2 Britain. Unless you find enough oil to allow everyone in the US to drive their oversized people carriers down to the corner to buy processed food expect riots.

We do still hold most of the cards. We're a huge economic hostage because of our consumption and output, and we have overwhelming military strength. That is just a fact, no ego.

As for the latter, this is exactly the kind of thing Americans talk about regarding European smugness. Yes, you are right! America does in fact have an infrastructure that is car centric. Of course you'll blame that on our inherent lack of souls and fat asses rather than the developmental history of the country. Considering America's agricultural output and the shelf life of said processed foods, we'd probably be ok.

 

[bengraven]

But jealousy implies that there's something outsiders are missing that makes them angry. Why would the root cause be jealousy if there's literally nothing to be jealous about?

Than what's the nature of the anger on a personal level? Hating an entire country because of what politicians or businessmen do on the news? Because you see quite a bit of odd people on the TV barking about religion or taking away rights?

 

[Kabouter]

When Americans say Europe they mean Western Europe 9 times out of 10.

And Doesn't the same apply when talking about Americans? Why do American's in Hawaii have to deal with people talking about rednecks?

At least Americans share a language, common media and are relatively close economically. The average Luxembourger is more than fifty times as rich as the average Moldovan. As far as Western Europe goes, even there I would say the differences are massive.

 

[SteveWD40]

Considering America's agricultural output and the shelf life of said processed foods, we'd probably be ok.

You would probably all die of diabetic infused limb loss as well

 

[Ecotic]

To me what would suck the most about being born in one of those great countries with healthcare and benefits and all that good stuff would just be how small and geographically limited the country would be. If I woke up and found myself in a country like Switzerland, Singapore, or Taiwan I think I would start to feel badly claustrophobic due to living in such a small country. Though I guess if you're in one of the medium-sized European Union countries like France, Germany, or Sweden you would have an easier time due to the European Union making travel between countries much easier for its members.

 

[Esch]

You would probably all die of diabetic infused limb loss as well

No, because we would all be on diets due to rationing. I have no idea why you're calling us fatties either, because European obesity rates seem to be climbing quite a bit, especially in the UK if i'm correct. You love our baller tummies.

 

[Stet]

Than what's the nature of the anger on a personal level? Hating an entire country because of what politicians or businessmen do on the news? Because you see quite a bit of odd people on the TV barking about religion or taking away rights?

I don't hate the U.S. on a personal level. I don't know anyone who does.

 

[Ezalc]

Lived in the US for 10 years and now I live in Brazil. I have to say I like it here way better and the only things I genuinely miss from the US is:

1. Family and friends.
2. Buying shit there since it's way cheaper than here.

I've been asked many times if I would ever like to go back and live in the US and my answer never changed. No, I'd rather just visit or at most I'd go back to try and get a master's degree, but I wouldn't like it to be my permanent place of residence.

 

[el retorno]

At least Americans share a language, common media and are relatively close economically. The average Luxembourger is more than fifty times as rich as the average Moldovan. As far as Western Europe goes, even there I would say the differences are massive.

Moldovans aren't what American's consider european.

And yes there are differences. The average New Jersean is much richer than the average person from Alabama. Their culture and language are quite different too.

I know europe is very different (probably more so) but so is america. I understand why you get frustrated but sometimes its the same.

 

[SteveWD40]

No, because we would all be on diets due to rationing. I have no idea why you're calling us fatties either, because European obesity rates seem to be climbing quite a bit, especially in the UK if i'm correct. You love our baller tummies.

Calm down, I was making a crack at the idea of living off twinkies, I have been to the US, your food is nice (in NYC and Seattle at least).

Oh and this is Korey right now:

 

[Prez]

Feel free to also inform us what living in 'Europe' is like. Because I find myself unable to judge fifty wildly different countries, even though I'm European myself. I'm quite confident that living in Moldova is rather different from living in Iceland, and living in Russia is not exactly the same as living in Portugal.

I didn't say there's one way of living in Europe. The point is that most Americans seem to think life is better in the US than any other country in the world.

But okay, if you want to be that nitpicky, I'll rephrase to make you happy:

What do most Americans think living in Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kosovo, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom OR Vatican City is like? Please answer this question for each of these countries, because Europe is wildly diverse. Thank you.

 

[el retorno]

Lived in the US for 10 years and now I live in Brazil. I have to say I like it here way better and the only things I genuinely miss from the US is:

1. Family and friends.
2. Buying shit there since it's way cheaper than here.

I've been asked many times if I would ever like to go back and live in the US and my answer never changed. No, I'd rather just visit or at most I'd go back to try and get a master's degree, but I wouldn't like it to be my permanent place of residence.

I'd rather live abroad but that has less to do with not liking America but rather being in a new environment. Makes life more exciting. Still will always be "American." No matter where I'm at.

 

[Ramblin]

My wife is American, but she won't go back because of the healthcare system there. I'm a Canadian, but damn if I don't want to live there for a few years just to walk into a grocery store and marvel at their beer selection. And she's concerned with the political atmosphere, the trans-vaginal ultrasound thing freaked her out. I on the other hand am all for building a moon base.

 

[bengraven]

Can you explain how Europe is different in this aspect?

My point was never to say that America has things that are different. My original point that you're referring to was simply to reference the anti-American attitudes and I pointed that out.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

As an Australian I certainly feel very lucky to be living here and not the states. The people here are laid back, the weather is good, the beer is good, we have public healthcare etc etc

In my short time in the US, the only thing I really envied was In' N Out Burger. Tasted pretty dammed good for a fast food chain. Like eating upper class mcdonalds. Also booze is much cheaper in the states (the aussie government really rapes us on alcohol and tobacco).

I cant think of much else though. The whole time I was there I had a persistent gut ache. I couldnt believe what you guys pass off as bread and milk. The food in Mexico was so much better its not funny....and I never had any stomach aches there either. Also tipping culture sucks ass.

 

[el retorno]

I amazed with the amount of comments about health care.

If we get universal care will we finally be good enough for you Europe?

Most americans have health care. I've never once had to worry about health care. It actually was more of a hassle in Europe getting dental work because I wasn't on their system.

 

[Wilbur]

As I said earlier, I'm a diehard liberal on the most extreme level and I have a problem with people who use their patriotism for a crutch, but at the same time seeing people just basing their opinions on an entire country because of what they see on TV is ridiculous - even moreso when the country is being compared to NK or Iran (which, granted, I haven't seen much of in this thread).

If this is the case and all we know of USA is on television or through media, therefore hating America... How can we be bitter or jealous of it like you say in the last post?

What you describe in this post sounds great. I wouldn't say it's unique to USA though or any country so I find it laughable that anyone can say their country is the best in the world despite being one individual. If you think your life is great, the places around you are great, cool. But if someone else says 'hey I feel exactly the same way as you but I'm in Croatia', it's an entirely futile discussion that ends in you proclaiming that the USA is the best.

 

[Fersis]

I dont envy any country but i would love to visit Sweden someday.

 

[dankir]

J Jonah is right! Canadian right here not envious in any way what so ever.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

How is Europe that much different than America exactly?

Healthcare?

 

[Antiwhippy]

In my short time in the US, the only thing I really envied was In' N Out Burger. Tasted pretty dammed good for a fast food chain. Like eating upper class mcdonalds.

Have you tried grill'd?

 

[snap0212]

I amazed with the amount of comments about health care.

If we get universal care will we finally be good enough for you Europe?

It would help to change the perception that the US as a whole doesn't give a crap about its citizens. Though you'd also have to work on your foreign policies. I think these are the big two.

 

[bengraven]

As an Australian I certainly feel very lucky to be living here and not the states. The people here are laid back, the weather is good, the beer is good, we have public healthcare etc etc

In my short time in the US, the only thing I really envied was In' N Out Burger. Tasted pretty dammed good for a fast food chain. Like eating upper class mcdonalds. Also booze is much cheaper in the states (the aussie government really rapes us on alcohol and tobacco).

I cant think of much else though. The whole time I was there I had a persistent gut ache. I couldnt believe what you guys pass off as bread and milk. The food in Mexico was so much better its not funny....and I never had any stomach aches there either. Also tipping culture sucks ass.

I had a friend from Australia at my last job and he wanted to go home very badly. I always told him that he was living in Mobile, AL and hadn't really ventured farther from there, but that was enough for him. The prices of education and the job prospects were so fucking good in Australia that he almost talked me into moving as well. He's living back in Oz now and extremely happy, but like I said, I blame the fact that he was homesick and a Muslim living in the center of Christian insanity in America for his bad time. We were going to do a road trip once, because I've always wanted to do the stereotypical Route 66 drive as I haven't been to the SW US yet, but he won't come back here. :/

If this is the case and all we know of USA is on television or through media, therefore hating America... How can we be bitter or jealous of it like you say in the last post?

What you describe in this post sounds great. I wouldn't say it's unique to USA though or any country so I find it laughable that anyone can say their country is the best in the world despite being one individual. If you think your life is great, the places around you are great, cool. But if someone else says 'hey I feel exactly the same way as you but I'm in Croatia', it's an entirely futile discussion that ends in you proclaiming that the USA is the best.

There's definitely some bitterness and envy whenever someone else is getting all the attention.

 

[nib95]

Than what's the nature of the anger on a personal level? Hating an entire country because of what politicians or businessmen do on the news? Because you see quite a bit of odd people on the TV barking about religion or taking away rights?

Hate might be a bit strong tbh. I promise you it's not out of envy. I'd imagine it's more to do with foreign policy and the financial or political institutions at play. America is sort of a bossy police of the world, quite corrupt, extremely agressive, often unfair and also often wrong.

I think post 9/11, it's sort of gotten much worse. But it's not anything against Americans themselves (though you guys do have a large portion of questionable folk who vote in questionable people, like Bush (twice), Romeny (admittedly the rest of the primaries line up was also terrible) etc. The entire GOP really. But it's more so the government and it's antics, and the misguided patriotism or conservatism that leads many Americans to blindly support terrible things.

But it's not entirely exclusive to the US. Many (most) countries have a similar thing. I just think the US of today is far more polarised than it was a few decades ago, or pre 9/11.

 

[Vagabundo]

I amazed with the amount of comments about health care.

If we get universal care will we finally be good enough for you Europe?

Most americans have health care. I've never once had to worry about health care. It actually was more of a hassle in Europe getting dental work because I wasn't on their system.

Maybe. But you'd have to get rid of your guns and death penalty, and come up with some sane way of dealing with tipping.

 

[el retorno]

How is Europe that much different than America exactly?

Healthcare?

To much to list. Culture and political/civic culture are very different.

 

[Seraphinianus]

I didn't say there's one way of living in Europe. The point is that most Americans seem to think life is better in the US than any other country in the world.

But okay, if you want to be that nitpicky, I'll rephrase to make you happy:

What do most Americans think living in Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kosovo, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom OR Vatican City is like? Please answer this question for each of these countries, because Europe is wildly diverse. Thank you.

well yeah, if we were having a pretty honest conversation with proper attention to detail, we would be talking about individual countries in Europe and individual states in the U.S. and we wouldn't be making huge generalizations. For example, you might piss off a Wisconsonite if you lumped them in with people from Illinois (the two states are on top of each other.) The charge of ignorance wouldn't be as big as, say, lumping in U.K. life with Lithuanian life, but it would be a point of argument.

but then we'd probably also only want people with experience to be talking, while the others who haven't actually experienced these places to just ask questions instead of making judgments based on media impressions/2nd hand info.