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FFXII news next week!!!

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Red Scarlet said:
Don't forget that the game footage in the commercials were 100% FMV. That had a large part to do with grabbing some sales over in NA.

Simply purchasing a game does not necessarily make someone a fan of it. The fans of FF7 do not LOVE the game simply due to the FMV segments. It may have been responsible for many of the sales, but if the game itself ended up disappointing someone as a result of the ad campaign, I don't think they would consider themselves a Final Fantasy VII fan...
 
whytemyke said:
IBDC? I'm not down with the forum lingo just yet... not beyond the ROFLs, IMHOs, etc.

not forum lingo...i just made it up. stands for "in before drinky crow" (someone who hates xenogears with a passion) :O
 
Red Scarlet said:
I mean to use in fights..the characters themselves don't mean much to me.

oh sorry, got you wrong then :P

yeah freya ruled. She had some kind of dragon magic (i dont remember), but one attack always took 9999, at multiple targets too.
 
haha, alright. I'll stand by the game, unless someone wants to debate the second disc, in which case there's really no defending that shit.
 
Sales that otherwise wouldn't have happened probably, so it did help in getting some of the new fans.

And I have met people who love the game but then they say they just play for the FMV's..hell some people still do that today, and the # of FMV's is the buy/don't buy factor.

SC'er: That Dragon Seal thing? Never killed many dragons with it so none of her attacks would do much.
 
Red Scarlet said:
Sales that otherwise wouldn't have happened probably, so it did help in getting some of the new fans.

And I have met people who love the game but then they say they just play for the FMV's..hell some people still do that today, and the # of FMV's is the buy/don't buy factor.

SC'er: That Dragon Seal thing? Never killed many dragons with it so none of her attacks would do much.

yes. I leveled up on the dragons, so her attacks became very strong.
 
Haruka Kinami might be voicing Ashe. On her profile page it lists under recent game voice work: 2005 Spring Release game - Heroine.

http://www.horipro.co.jp/talent/PF068/


photo_68.jpg
 
Since my name has been invoked, the CANON OF DRINKY CROW must be espoused.

Xeno-ANYTHING is trash. Pure fanfic-style trash designed by feckless otakoids rather than folks interested in making a mechnically sound RPG. All three titles are nothing more than "RPG doujinshi" -- all of the superficial appeal jacked up to a high-pitched whine, and none of the real depth or gameplay that defines the genre. They're poorly-sung paeans to inarticulate character design and pompous plot devices, completely unbacked by anything resembling depth or comprehension of the genre.

Matsuno is the best Western RPG designer born and living in Japan, and Vagrant Story is a brief glimpse into the game design talents of God Himself, at least if God were a little too obsessed with menus. Anything he makes is fundamentally good, although he needs to team up with better UI designers.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Since my name has been invoked, the CANON OF DRINKY CROW must be espoused.

Xeno-ANYTHING is trash. Pure fanfic-style trash designed by feckless otakoids rather than folks interested in making a mechnically sound RPG. All three titles are nothing more than "RPG doujinshi" -- all of the superficial appeal jacked up to a high-pitched whine, and none of the real depth or gameplay that defines the genre. They're poorly-sung paeans to inarticulate character design and pompous plot devices, completely unbacked by anything resembling depth or comprehension of the genre.

Matsuno is the best Western RPG designer born and living in Japan, and Vagrant Story is a brief glimpse into the game design talents of God Himself, at least if God were a little too obsessed with menus. Anything he makes is fundamentally good, although he needs to team up with better UI designers.


Ahh yes there he is!

:lol :lol

:D
 
Drinky Crow said:
Since my name has been invoked, the CANON OF DRINKY CROW must be espoused.

Xeno-ANYTHING is trash. Pure fanfic-style trash designed by feckless otakoids rather than folks interested in making a mechnically sound RPG. All three titles are nothing more than "RPG doujinshi" -- all of the superficial appeal jacked up to a high-pitched whine, and none of the real depth or gameplay that defines the genre. They're poorly-sung paeans to inarticulate character design and pompous plot devices, completely unbacked by anything resembling depth or comprehension of the genre.

Matsuno is the best Western RPG designer born and living in Japan, and Vagrant Story is a brief glimpse into the game design talents of God Himself, at least if God were a little too obsessed with menus. Anything he makes is fundamentally good, although he needs to team up with better UI designers.

Hahahahaha, but that's the appeal of Xeno though, as a big budget RPG Doujin Game! Speaking of Doujin games, I just completed Ending B of Cave Story. It rocks! :D
 
Drinky Crow said:
Since my name has been invoked, the CANON OF DRINKY CROW must be espoused.

Xeno-ANYTHING is trash. Pure fanfic-style trash designed by feckless otakoids rather than folks interested in making a mechnically sound RPG. All three titles are nothing more than "RPG doujinshi" -- all of the superficial appeal jacked up to a high-pitched whine, and none of the real depth or gameplay that defines the genre. They're poorly-sung paeans to inarticulate character design and pompous plot devices, completely unbacked by anything resembling depth or comprehension of the genre.

Matsuno is the best Western RPG designer born and living in Japan, and Vagrant Story is a brief glimpse into the game design talents of God Himself, at least if God were a little too obsessed with menus. Anything he makes is fundamentally good, although he needs to team up with better UI designers.

what, you wont stand in line for xenosaga on DS? :P I think hate + hate = love
 
Dude. At the end of the day, I like games, and have money. I think the DS is contemptible garbage from a hardware perspective and uglier than a mule's ass to boot, but I ain't passin' on a new Advance Wars or Castlevania just because the delivery platform is all kinda snake turds.
 
Probably had something to do with the fact that when I started playing it I was really sick and I was just in a generally bad mood while playing it.
No, FF8 put me in a bad mood too and I wasn't sick. Its just an annoying game. The lead character is abrasive thanks to his lack of any logical thought, the side characters in the main storyline are shallow and forgetable, and the entire combat system is horribly broken. The game itself also has poor artistic design slathered all over it. A bland world color palette, cliche overdone character designs, and weak representations of the series staple entities (Cid, several recurring monsters and summons). Not to mention a god aweful main storyline.

The only bright points I found in the game were the side story elements featuring Laguna (very well done with relatable, moderately well design characters that actually had personality), triple triad, and Shiva's summon (always one of the best in any FF game).

FFXII I have high hopes for though. Matsuno appears to be the one to bring Final Fantasy back to the forefront of RPGs in terms of quality and not just name recognition. It has a few rough spots I'm not overly fond of (furries, efeminate leads), but I expect Matsuno to do what he always does, develop fundamentally enjoyable gameplay with a very well crafted storyline.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Dude. At the end of the day, I like games, and have money. I think the DS is contemptible garbage from a hardware perspective and uglier than a mule's ass to boot, but I ain't passin' on a new Advance Wars or Castlevania just because the delivery platform is all kinda snake turds.

well yeah. Maybe the touch screen actually could become useful in advance wars. It didn't really look useful in castlevania, but who cares as long as the game plays like it should :D
 
I thought Xenogears was only an average RPG until I started taking some religion classes here at school, and after studying a lot of this stuff, I realize how much work and investigation actually went into developing the storyline for Xenogears. I'm totally with you on the XS series... I can't play more than half of Episode I before throwing my controller down in disgust and playing some Tony Hawk or Sly Cooper. But as for the first one, it's one of the best RPGs I've ever played. I understand a lot of complaints with the game, but a shallow story? How do you figure?
 
Played halfway through Xenogears and stopped. Beat Xenosaga though. :\ Such arrogent pricks who make those games... who the hell puts a subtitle in German for the fuck of it?
 
Dude, that's the POINT: anyone with a year of Western Religion courses and a smattering of philosophy could pen Xenogears' plot. For all of its pretensions, the ham-fisted attempt at allegory is meaningless -- the fundamental plot is still pure anime tripe that just assigns fancy names from Catholic, Mithraic, and Hindu mythology to various ill-explained pieces of machinery (be it giant robots, weapons, or genome projects) and then waves its hands about the ascension of the human race. It's just an Eva fanfic with a little more time spent at the encyclopedia. Hell, it even has the wacky anthropomorphic sidekick, the predictable magical girl, and the superhuman boy hero trying to find a purpose for his existence. It's a giant reeking cesspit of anime cliches cutely doctored up by invoking such deep sounding and nebulous (to an outsider) terms as "gnosis" and the mythologies of Ur.

As hard science-fiction, there's no thought driving the allegorical relationships between the invoked mythologies and the technology. For a real example of how this sort of thing should be done, read (if you can stomach it) Steven R. Donaldson's "Gap" quintology -- as darkly depressing as it is, it's the sort of tight mesh between deep allegory and proper hard science-fiction that stuff like the Xeno* titles and even Evangelion would LOVE to achieve.

Proper allegory requires understanding the originating mythologies and religions in depth. Xenogears just name-drops at the literary party and gets fanboys THINKING that they're hangin' with someone clever. Xenosaga is even worse -- when Takahashi ran out of mythological references, he started getting slaphappy with the military-sounding acronyms. Yuck.

In the end, though, Xenogears is just another by-the-book anime sci-fi plot about the ascension of the human race with no real science or consistent mythological data to back it up. It's more about the chance to show off flashy-looking mech designs or exotic superpowers trumped up with cool-sounding names than a legitimate attempt to explore the source material and/or the future of science and human advancement. THAT'S why it's shallow.
 
Well geez, when you put it like THAT... heh.

I'm pretty ignorant to 'good' anime, as I've never gotten deeper than watching Ninja Scrolls at my buddies houses, so I'm fairly ignorant towards a lot of the anime science-meets-God paradigm with which it seems you're comparing the game.

And I do also see what you're saying about the name-dropping without explaining why it's there. That was one of the reasons I had high hopes of the Xenosaga games and even a possible remake of Xenogears... so they'd get deeper into the story explanations, etc. But after seeing what a craptacular event Der Wille Zer Macht was *pukes* and reading how pretty much the only brains in the operation are gone, that essentially destroys any hope I had at a good explanation of what lead up to everything.

Still, I think it is very applaudable that anyone even attempted something on that scale. To cover such a grandiose base (even poorly) is still worth some credit. I keep thinking back to certain parts of that game, and I'll think it was part of another game because there's no way that one game could carry that much information, only to remember that it really was all in Xenogears.

I think that it's not quite the miserable game that you seem to make it out to be (and correct me if thats a bad assessment of your opinion), but that it is apparent that Square really never had its heart in the game to begin with, and I think the game stands as one of the biggest "what could have been" games in the history of at least the PSX.
 
I don't recommend watching as much anime as I have, and I've watched the merest fraction of what some folks around here have. I wish I could forget a good 90% of it.

I'd say avoid the anime and simply covet Xenogears' seeming originality. It's all better that way. ;)

That said, the mech combat was awful, and the character combat was almost as bad -- did you REALLY need any Deathblows beyond maybe one or two of each per character? Outside of the stupidly unclever Deus battle, did any fight present a challenge? Tack in the muddy graphics, the banal character designs, and the terrible acting/localization, and you can kinda see why its purported charms look more like albatrosses to me.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Since my name has been invoked, the CANON OF DRINKY CROW must be espoused.

Xeno-ANYTHING is trash. Pure fanfic-style trash designed by feckless otakoids rather than folks interested in making a mechnically sound RPG. All three titles are nothing more than "RPG doujinshi" -- all of the superficial appeal jacked up to a high-pitched whine, and none of the real depth or gameplay that defines the genre. They're poorly-sung paeans to inarticulate character design and pompous plot devices, completely unbacked by anything resembling depth or comprehension of the genre.



Drinky Crow said:
Dude, that's the POINT: anyone with a year of Western Religion courses and a smattering of philosophy could pen Xenogears' plot. For all of its pretensions, the ham-fisted attempt at allegory is meaningless -- the fundamental plot is still pure anime tripe that just assigns fancy names from Catholic, Mithraic, and Hindu mythology to various ill-explained pieces of machinery (be it giant robots, weapons, or genome projects) and then waves its hands about the ascension of the human race. It's just an Eva fanfic with a little more time spent at the encyclopedia. Hell, it even has the wacky anthropomorphic sidekick, the predictable magical girl, and the superhuman boy hero trying to find a purpose for his existence. It's a giant reeking cesspit of anime cliches cutely doctored up by invoking such deep sounding and nebulous (to an outsider) terms as "gnosis" and the mythologies of Ur.

As hard science-fiction, there's no thought driving the allegorical relationships between the invoked mythologies and the technology. For a real example of how this sort of thing should be done, read (if you can stomach it) Steven R. Donaldson's "Gap" quintology -- as darkly depressing as it is, it's the sort of tight mesh between deep allegory and proper hard science-fiction that stuff like the Xeno* titles and even Evangelion would LOVE to achieve.

Proper allegory requires understanding the originating mythologies and religions in depth. Xenogears just name-drops at the literary party and gets fanboys THINKING that they're hangin' with someone clever. Xenosaga is even worse -- when Takahashi ran out of mythological references, he started getting slaphappy with the military-sounding acronyms. Yuck.

In the end, though, Xenogears is just another by-the-book anime sci-fi plot about the ascension of the human race with no real science or consistent mythological data to back it up. It's more about the chance to show off flashy-looking mech designs or exotic superpowers trumped up with cool-sounding names than a legitimate attempt to explore the source material and/or the future of science and human advancement. THAT'S why it's shallow.

:lol Well said



Drinky Crow said:
Matsuno is the best Western RPG designer born and living in Japan, and Vagrant Story is a brief glimpse into the game design talents of God Himself, at least if God were a little too obsessed with menus. Anything he makes is fundamentally good, although he needs to team up with better UI designers.

I agree, though I'd go so far as to say that he is my favorite RPG designer born or currecntly residing in Japan.
 
Well, that's what I meant -- I was just emphasizing that Matsuno's RPG mechanics have a lot more in common with traditional Western RPG design (when Western designers aren't aping AD&D and badly, that is) than the by-the-book five primary stats + elemental weaknesses approach shared by most Eastern RPGs. They also have that initially cumbersome feel wed to gothic noir that characterizes the better Western PC RPGs. Matsuno, however, puts a lot more thought and balancing into his clever little numerical exercises than any Western RPG developer I can think of, and he values character customization, freedom of movement, and internal complexity more than character design, narrative, and genre convention.

He just needs to think through the way people access the complexity of his games better. If he can make a Vagrant Story 2 with a less cumbersome menu system and better contextual feedback for the weaponsmithing parts, it'd MURDER ME WITH FUN. And if anything mars the inevitable genius of FF12, it'll be a real-time battle system bogged down with menus. CONTEXTUAL INPUT, SIR.


EDIT: Plus, you gotta respect a guy who endlessly digs at the history of Catholicism like he does. He doesn't even TRY for allegory; he just hits you over the head with his moralizing. Still, Vagrant Story was FUCKING COOL, Ashley's assless shorts aside, although much of that can be attributed to what is arguably the best RPG localization effort to date.
 
I'm with whytemyke... I don't watch much anime (I've only seen Fist of the North Star and Ninja Scroll) so a lot of the Japanese RPG stories are "new" and interesting to me. Xenos were still hard to swallow though....


duckroll said:
Damn that Razoric! :lol

:lol
 
"If he can make a Vagrant Story 2 with a less cumbersome menu system and better contextual feedback for the weaponsmithing parts, it'd MURDER ME WITH FUN."

I would sig this if these boards have them, because I'm in the same boat.

Also, that was one of the best dialogue ever; it might as well have been 18th century British actors doing the parts it felt so "right". It does make me wonder how the token FF fanboy will take his near-omitance of humor, though.
 
Razoric said:
I'm with whytemyke... I don't watch much anime (I've only seen Fist of the North Star and Ninja Scroll) so a lot of the Japanese RPG stories are "new" and interesting to me. Xenos were still hard to swallow though....

That's nice and all and I'm sure we all respect that, but just remember to read the manual before summoning anymore vindictive dark one-eyed pyramid gods next time. :D
 
SatelliteOfLove said:
It does make me wonder how the token FF fanboy will take his near-omitance of humor, though.

"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."

He'll do fine.
 
Junctioning, (hate it or hate it ): FFVIII


I still don't get the for the junctioning system. It was so damn easy to use, and FUN to use. Mixing around different elements to your weapon was awesome. 100 stops or 100 deaths=greatness.
 
I dunno where Eternal Darkness/Necron came from.

Eternal Darkness was kind of a refugee from earlier versions of the FF9 design... the changes they made during the very messy development process pushed some originally prominent parts of the story (i.e. the whole business with the Crystal) into the background, without removing them entirely, which left a lot of people scratching their heads at the bits that were left in.
 
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
Eternal Darkness was kind of a refugee from earlier versions of the FF9 design... the changes they made during the very messy development process pushed some originally prominent parts of the story (i.e. the whole business with the Crystal) into the background, without removing them entirely, which left a lot of people scratching their heads at the bits that were left in.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
Eternal Darkness was kind of a refugee from earlier versions of the FF9 design... the changes they made during the very messy development process pushed some originally prominent parts of the story (i.e. the whole business with the Crystal) into the background, without removing them entirely, which left a lot of people scratching their heads at the bits that were left in.
Interesting. I'm assuming you're talking about the final boss that seems to just pop out of nowhere without ever being mentioned before in FFIX, correct?






AssMan:
People hated the Draw system.
People couldn't figure out Junctioning.


Combine them both or choose one of the above that that explains the hate for the Junctioning system.
 
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
Eternal Darkness was kind of a refugee from earlier versions of the FF9 design... the changes they made during the very messy development process pushed some originally prominent parts of the story (i.e. the whole business with the Crystal) into the background, without removing them entirely, which left a lot of people scratching their heads at the bits that were left in.

I'm still pissed because I didn't my job changing black Garnet, flying islands, and supernatural flying fish
 
I still don't get the for the junctioning system. It was so damn easy to use, and FUN to use. Mixing around different elements to your weapon was awesome. 100 stops or 100 deaths=greatness.
My complaint was that it was pathetically tedious and boring. You had to spend hours drawing to get a complete set of 100 to make it an ideal spell to junction, then you had to play around with every different spell to see which ones junctioned to which abilities best.

Worst of all, if you actually knew what you were doing you broke the game completely and stomped every enemy you came across.

Also, creatures that you could draw Aura from where far too frequent and too easy, so you could at your whim cast Aura in any hard fight and overdrive your enemies into oblivion.
 
Drek said:
My complaint was that it was pathetically tedious and boring. You had to spend hours drawing to get a complete set of 100 to make it an ideal spell to junction, then you had to play around with every different spell to see which ones junctioned to which abilities best.

Worst of all, if you actually knew what you were doing you broke the game completely and stomped every enemy you came across.

Also, creatures that you could draw Aura from where far too frequent and too easy, so you could at your whim cast Aura in any hard fight and overdrive your enemies into oblivion.

yeah I remember that I collected 100 or 99 aura at island of hell or something.
 
At least we'll be able to play Zelda this year.

My gut feeling is seeing FFXII have a 2006 NA release. Square Enix USA is gonna shove that POS Kingdom Hearts 2 down our throats this Xmas.
 
Mrbob said:
At least we'll be able to play Zelda this year.

My gut feeling is seeing FFXII have a 2006 NA release. Square Enix USA is gonna shove that POS Kingdom Hearts 2 down our throats this Xmas.

Yeah, I hope it's not US bound as late as 2006. It would maybe suffer from the next-gen hype at that time. Final Fantasy is not a game you want to import either unless you know japanese.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Since my name has been invoked, the CANON OF DRINKY CROW must be espoused.
In my sleep-deprived state, I read this as "the Can of Drinky Crow must be opened", a la whoopass.

Anyway, sign me up for more Matsuno praise - although I didn't click with Vagrant Story, I can't get enough of the Ogre games. Maybe later I'll track down a copy of VS (it's greatest hits now, and not rare, so it shouldn't be hard) and give it a shot.
 
Drek said:
My complaint was that it was pathetically tedious and boring. You had to spend hours drawing to get a complete set of 100 to make it an ideal spell to junction, then you had to play around with every different spell to see which ones junctioned to which abilities best.

Worst of all, if you actually knew what you were doing you broke the game completely and stomped every enemy you came across.

Also, creatures that you could draw Aura from where far too frequent and too easy, so you could at your whim cast Aura in any hard fight and overdrive your enemies into oblivion.



No you most certainly do not have to spend hours drawing magic. There are other ways of obtaining magic. Ever used refine? The game isn't as easy as you think it is. You can make yourself extremely strong early on but that requires some extra card playing. If you know what your doing and play the game normally, you will have a good time. Actually there are only a few creatures you can draw aura from and yes you can cast aura at whim but so what? Don't use it if you don't like it.
 
Explodet: You should, if you don't think you're already spoiled by all the praising it received. But of all Matsuno's games, I liked VS best, so I'd love to see him do more Vagrant Storyesque games. However, a new Ogre game would be more then welcome too. But he seems happy working on FFXII for the coming decade :/.
 
Tea Master said:
No you most certainly do not have to spend hours drawing magic. There are other ways of obtaining magic. Ever used refine? The game isn't as easy as you think it is. You can make yourself extremely strong early on but that requires some extra card playing. If you know what your doing and play the game normally, you will have a good time. Actually there are only a few creatures you can draw aura from and yes you can cast aura at whim but so what? Don't use it if you don't like it.
I used refine plenty, I couldn't imagine how tedious the game would be without it. Doesn't change the fact that encounters basically involve a bunch of busy work. I also didn't get into the card game until later on and still never really had a whole lot of challenge from the game. The challenge isn't a huge deal, FF7 and 9 were both pushovers as well, but at least the game mechanics were solid (though simple) but FF8 was a pushover with poor mechanics and thats just not needed in what's supposed to be the elite RPG franchise.

The aura dillema is partially that the spell is FAR too powerful, but even moreso, it shows up far too early in the game. Overdriving spells, especially in a game with as powerful overdrives as FF8 had, shouldn't be made available until very late in the game.
 
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