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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters

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Anne

Member
I was just about to ask. If C beats the A+B OS doesn't that technically beat A and B individually? Or is it just a counter to the A+B OS but loses to A or B? lol

Sort of. You're usually inputting C at a specific timing to cover both A and B used at the same time, but it can still lose to an individual option at a different timing or an entirely new one all together. In Persona I'll specifically look to cover throw tech and jump out being used at the same time for instance, but that leaves them room to throw or jump at earlier or different timings. It also leaves room for me to get mashed as well. A really good call out to an OS is as safe and rewarding as possible but looking for the specific reward on calling out the OS leaves room for different options to start working again. A pretty typical scenario I run into as Aigis is I try to cover fuzzy roll OS(A = block B = roll), but the main option I use to do that(option C) makes my mix up weaker and less rewarding (makes A stronger) but ensures I get higher reward versus the roll ( makes option B weaker). By calling out the roll OS I ensure I get high reward off calling it out, but I minimize my reward vs them just blocking without inputting the OS. If they try to mash roll without using OS timing I can still cover it probably, but my reward goes down as well. Additionally the way I do this leaves me pretty open to being DPed, where my normal mix up is DP safe.

I'm covering both A and B but not as well to focus on maximizing my reward for calling out A+B combined at OS timing. I'm also opening myself up to D(DP) which is a hard call out to my C. What's cool is if I understand they aren't doing A+B and are going back to just A or B, my options vs those open up significantly and we have actually come full circle to them using A/B/D and me hard countering them rather than looking for answers to OS.

It's really cool when something comes full circle like that. It's a hell of a rabbit hole.
 
Sort of. You're usually inputting C at a specific timing to cover both A and B used at the same time, but it can still lose to an individual option at a different timing or an entirely new one all together. In Persona I'll specifically look to cover throw tech and jump out being used at the same time for instance, but that leaves them room to throw or jump at earlier or different timings. It also leaves room for me to get mashed as well. A really good call out to an OS is as safe and rewarding as possible but looking for the specific reward on calling out the OS leaves room for different options to start working again. A pretty typical scenario I run into as Aigis is I try to cover fuzzy roll OS(A = block B = roll), but the main option I use to do that(option C) makes my mix up weaker and less rewarding (makes A stronger) but ensures I get higher reward versus the roll ( makes option B weaker). By calling out the roll OS I ensure I get high reward off calling it out, but I minimize my reward vs them just blocking without inputting the OS. If they try to mash roll without using OS timing I can still cover it probably, but my reward goes down as well. Additionally the way I do this leaves me pretty open to being DPed, where my normal mix up is DP safe.

I'm covering both A and B but not as well to focus on maximizing my reward for calling out A+B combined at OS timing. I'm also opening myself up to D(DP) which is a hard call out to my C. What's cool is if I understand they aren't doing A+B and are going back to just A or B, my options vs those open up significantly and we have actually come full circle to them using A/B/D and me hard countering them rather than looking for answers to OS.

It's really cool when something comes full circle like that. It's a hell of a rabbit hole.

I guess the real point of contention is whether or not you think the game would be better if they somehow forced that option select to not exist and made you hard commit to every basic option (assuming this is possible).

For what I'm learning from this argument, "hard" option selects -- ones that cover options so perfectly that they remove nuance from the game, like SF4 crouch teching, are actually fairly rare and extreme, but somehow became how everyone thought option selects worked (maybe due to how many people play SF4). Imperfect option selects, which are the norm, create a second layer of options (a metagame, let's say) that introduce more considerations into the situation, since they are stronger than the basic options but provide new weaknesses as well.
 

Anne

Member
For what I'm learning from this argument, "hard" option selects -- ones that cover options so perfectly that they remove nuance from the game, like SF4 crouch teching, are actually fairly rare and extreme, but somehow became how everyone thought option selects worked (maybe due to how many people play SF4). Imperfect option selects, which are the norm, create a second layer of options (a metagame, let's say) that introduce more considerations into the situation, since they are stronger than the basic options but provide new weaknesses as well.

Yeah that's kind of how they work. This is mostly about defensive ones, and crouch tech in SF4 isn't "perfect" but it's so fucking good it might as well be the perfect option.

Offensive OS is a lot murkier though and trends towards game specifics. People /despised/ offensive OS in SF4 because it really did just delete defensive options when somebody could safejump and cover backdash, focus, etc all in one input. That combined with crouch tech and SF4 being the game to introduce these ideas to most people, well, it makes sense people would think OSes are satan.

Assuming the throw tech info on the Dustloop wiki is still accurate, if you use an OS/fuzzy guard instead of doing an "honest" throw tech:
- Your throw tech window is smaller. (3f vs 16f)
- Your Throw Reject Miss state is longer. (27f vs 14f)

If you could consistently tech throws within that three-frame window, then you could probably always use it if you were intending to throw tech anyway. The risk for using it incorrectly, either in terms of poor timing or incorrectly reading a throw attempt, is being much more vulnerable to throws, but alternatively, it's less vulnerable to strikes or throw baits.

Thanks for posting this btw. I knew my numbers were off but I was on mobile and thought generalizing would be okay. Clearly wasn't, my bad (I legit forgot the 30~ frame TRM window assumed it was behind another action whoops). Worth noting that this is a pretty minor difference a lot of the time since fuzzy timing assumes blockstun/throw tech state while inputting the OS, but it is something. More reasons to OSing throw without barrier exist, but a lot of it comes down to TRM existing to punish it when you layer it into an OS. People will actually just fuzzy jump without inputting the throw because they want the jump out barrier without risking getting TRMed, then if a throw situation occurs they'll tech normally.
 

pizzacat

Banned
It sucks that Sanford gets mad a lot because his Oni is interesting to watch at least for me since I barely see it online
 

Infinite

Member
Why do people conflate character popularity with tier charts and tournament usage? I was reading that R.Mika thread and OP was like "why do people care about her no one played her competitively and she was bottom tier" and I'm like brah that has little bearing on her popularity lol

Anyways I was watching videos of the new blazblue and I'm semi hype because the new characters look cool to play as especially that nigga that looks like Noel. The thing is I say this every blazblue and end up never playing them. Then I gotta worry about the arcsys cycle which makes it easier for me to say fuck it.

I been practicing sf4 again. Need to find some offline sessions to go to aside from next level. Going there is like taking the pilgrimage to Mecca. My yang getting better but I can't do this niggas FADC rekka combos for the life of me.

Edit: FADC inputs should have been like a fucking rapid cancel. Shit is so obtuse the way it is now.
 

pizzacat

Banned
Why do people conflate character popularity with tier charts and tournament usage? I was reading that R.Mika thread and OP was like "why do people care about her no one played her competitively and she was bottom tier" and I'm like brah that has little bearing on her popularity lol
I'm guessing because people think higher tiers=higher percentage of being played in tourneys=higher popularity than most for being seen so much?

Also FADC imo is such a flawed mechanic because of characters different dashes and FA animation and now with red focus being what it is I don't see that much of a point to it but I may be wrong (or super wrong who knows)
 

Beckx

Member
So I got my new BenQ monitor and Justin Wong's face is on the box (with 3 DotA dudes) and the caption "America's Favorite Fighting Game Player"
 

Infinite

Member
Red focus kinda sucks for yang tho. You're spending more meter and getting less damage for an easier version of a combo you already can do.
 

Azure J

Member
M2k vs Leffen Melee Grand Finals at Pax

Pretty great set. M2k was playing so well.

That ending f-smash tipper...

KkgPCBz.gif
 
Still getting uses to this thread being in Community. This past weekend is a good example of why it doesn't suck too bad, though - the thread here for ongoing discussion and then big event threads on Gaming. It is a tad neater.

I am the proud owner of a shiny new Venom Arcade Stick. Going to give it a proper going over tonight.
 

acfan

Neo Member
So I got my new BenQ monitor and Justin Wong's face is on the box (with 3 DotA dudes) and the caption "America's Favorite Fighting Game Player"

Almost as weird as seeing league of legends players on razer advertisements at your local Best Buy.
Also Summer Jam was amazing.
 

Shouta

Member
Sort of. You're usually inputting C at a specific timing to cover both A and B used at the same time, but it can still lose to an individual option at a different timing or an entirely new one all together. In Persona I'll specifically look to cover throw tech and jump out being used at the same time for instance, but that leaves them room to throw or jump at earlier or different timings. It also leaves room for me to get mashed as well. A really good call out to an OS is as safe and rewarding as possible but looking for the specific reward on calling out the OS leaves room for different options to start working again. A pretty typical scenario I run into as Aigis is I try to cover fuzzy roll OS(A = block B = roll), but the main option I use to do that(option C) makes my mix up weaker and less rewarding (makes A stronger) but ensures I get higher reward versus the roll ( makes option B weaker). By calling out the roll OS I ensure I get high reward off calling it out, but I minimize my reward vs them just blocking without inputting the OS. If they try to mash roll without using OS timing I can still cover it probably, but my reward goes down as well. Additionally the way I do this leaves me pretty open to being DPed, where my normal mix up is DP safe.

I'm covering both A and B but not as well to focus on maximizing my reward for calling out A+B combined at OS timing. I'm also opening myself up to D(DP) which is a hard call out to my C. What's cool is if I understand they aren't doing A+B and are going back to just A or B, my options vs those open up significantly and we have actually come full circle to them using A/B/D and me hard countering them rather than looking for answers to OS.

It's really cool when something comes full circle like that. It's a hell of a rabbit hole.

Ah, I see. So C can't cover A or B because it's timing based. I can see why you think it's just another choice because the counter option is imperfect in this case. I do think that ultimately has a lot to do with the game though. Imagine if that situation had a counter that worked against A, B and A+B 80% of the time,

Still though, for me the fewer or no OS, the better. It's one more thing on the list of things that's required for players to become competitive and I'd rather have fewer things on that list, lol

Getting back into the swing with Xrd and man, I forgot how much IAD practice you have to do on pad to get it consistently in matches.

Edit: Streaming & talking for a bit, just trying to grind some things. Would appreciate any help for a wayward scrub. (yay no PS+)

Being mindful of IAD is the biggest thing but being on a pad affords us the ability to hit inputs without much movement so I think a lot of pad players tend to be a bit sloppy when IADs require clean inputs.
 

Tripon

Member
Still getting uses to this thread being in Community. This past weekend is a good example of why it doesn't suck too bad, though - the thread here for ongoing discussion and then big event threads on Gaming. It is a tad neater.
On that note, I'm going to try to get the weekend thread for events started tonight since the Manila Cup starts on Thursday with Smash 4. It's a bit early, but rather start the thread early then late. I'll update the thread with info graphics and other info when I can

Edit: also, if anybody else wants to do it for any given week, or want to work together, PM me. I'm doing it because I got time, but would be more than glad to work with some body or allow somebody else to take the roll. I know SCR is up for grabs and I don't want to step on anybody toes.
 

notworksafe

Member
Gootecks with a nice breakdown of Mika from his playtime at PAX
https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFigh...uys_gootecks_here_to_give_you_the_rundown_on/

Although unpractical, it is possible to charge V-Skill for an extended period of time, giving her next throw the power to do 100% life on the opponent. This is extremely impractical in a real match, but hey who knows, maybe someone can figure out a way to make it happen.

Nadeshiko can attack from above, in front, or behind, depending on whether V-Trigger is called from neutral, back, or forward position respectively. Additionally, you can hold HP+HK which causes a 2-3 second delay in Nadeshiko’s attack, meaning that Mika’s V-Trigger has six variations in total.

Combofiend pointed out to me that the way you can differentiate between the instant and delayed Nadeshiko attacks is that Mika will hold up two hands for a delayed variation and one hand for the instant ones. It’s still a guess as to which side Nadeshiko will attack from.

I can't wait for her to be playable, she sounds so awesome
 

jbug617

Banned
Gamerbee now works for Twitch
http://blog.twitch.tv/2015/09/gamerbee-brings-love-of-fgc-to-twitch/

GamerBee’s role at Twitch is as our new Partnerships Development Lead in Taiwan. By bridging the language and culture barrier between Twitch and the local community in Taiwan, he will be able to assist Taiwanese broadcasters with improving their channels and growing their communities.

Here is what he had to say about coming on board: “To be at Twitch is like getting the Mario Lucky Star! Ever since I became a professional gamer, I knew gaming was my calling. Driven by this purpose and commitment, I look forward to strengthening the gaming community in Asia. I’ll be sharing my talents in Footsie, Shoryuken Anti-Air, and Ultra Combos to help partners and broadcasters have an awesome experience on Twitch in Taiwan.
 

CO_Andy

Member
I don't remember Mika being named "Rainbow" in the Japanese Alpha 3. Might need to go load up the game again to check.
 

Azure J

Member
Thanks to Beats & 4r5 (and the ever mysterious EMPChadWarden) for stopping by my stream. You all can see I have quite a ways to go with Xrd, but I like the game and really want to get better at it. I'll be trying to devote some time here and there to streaming either me messing in training or playing people just so I can get good and feel good about gettin' good. :)

Just gotta get this PS+ money sorted out. :p

Being mindful of IAD is the biggest thing but being on a pad affords us the ability to hit inputs without much movement so I think a lot of pad players tend to be a bit sloppy when IADs require clean inputs.

I see. Thanks for the input. :)


Good job Gamerbee.
 

Shouta

Member
Ah yeah, we really need to stop just posting large gifs and instead of posting the links . A lot of folks don't have that much data or are in places that don't have great internet or caps. Gotta remember that folks.
 
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