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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters

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R

Rhapsody

Banned
I went 1-2 in Persona. That's what happens when you don't really play for months (or P4U2 for that matter).

Played mostly SFV while I was there. Gief feels so weird right now. Not sure what to confirm into now with the lost of green hand. Normals are a lot slower and takes some time getting used to.

Other than that, I played Karin for most of the matches. She's a lot of fun. V Skill is pretty awful for getting rid of projectiles. You're going to have to be at a really far range to get one ready in time, and good players will just instead walk forward instead of throwing a fireball at that range. Pretty sure my V Skill was punishable on block. I tried getting QCF LK > LP to V Skill, but it didn't work. Might've been my timing, who knows.

Toward+MK doesn't go over lows. Pretty sure it doesn't even change her hurtbox. Still unsure if HP into QCB+LP works. It looks like it did at times but I'm unsure if they just got hit by the high. V Trigger is hard to use. Her side swap one is only after the 2nd rekka like everyone knows, but you can just mash jabs to hit her out of it. Didn't check to see if I can delay and frame trap with rekkas, but I'd rather just confirm into rekkas than rely on risky mixups.

Command dash to reset pressure also feels pretty risky. LK command dash to nothing was punished by Ryu cr.MP. I didn't get to mess around with command dash combos to much outside of QCF LK > LP into another one. Unsure if it or the shoulder is currently safe. It reminds me of Jin's stuff in SFXT, but not nearly as good obviously.

Also QCB+PP is her reversal.


Overall, she's really fun and I still want to use her for release. Watching other people play, Laura looks extremely fun and pretty cool. Saw LPN run everyone over with her. She looks the most fun out of the new cast with a lot of tools. Her super seems to be a command grab, but I think I overheard them finding out you can confirm into it as well.

I might try to see how many more games I can squeeze in tomorrow.
 
L

Lostconfused

Member
Want to try a new character in Xrd because my Sol is so garbage. Don't know who to pick though. None of the rest of the cast really worked for me at a glance but nobody interests me enough to sink more time into them. Well except Sin, but that went even worse than Sol for me.
 
4

4r5

Member
Lostconfused said:
Want to try a new character in Xrd because my Sol is so garbage. Don't know who to pick though. None of the rest of the cast really worked for me at a glance but nobody interests me enough to sink more time into them. Well except Sin, but that went even worse than Sol for me.
Click to expand...

What do you like about Sin? What has been so bad about Sin?
 
L

Lostconfused

Member
4r5 said:
What do you like about Sin? What has been so bad about Sin?
Click to expand...

Seems like a pretty easy and straightforward character, relatively speaking. His specials cancel into each other and its kind of easy to understand how they interact with each other. His normal gatling is also relatively simple, with the only major complication being that you want to cancel HS into 6HS most of the time? Overall looks like a rather simple character compared to the rest of the GG cast, the meter management wrinkle is just something you can get used to with time.

The things I don't like is that while seems simple I still don't know how to use the character. It looks like the character can do a ton of damage, but that's obviously not for free, you need to get the critical hit from DP for a fully charged Beak Driver or have the opponent near a walk for a wall splat leading to follow ups. Since the timing on all of that is relatively tight, it's not something you can do on reaction and need a plan of action from the start. Which I don't have for whatever reason.

I dunno people ask me what I want like I can express that, but I've been dabbling with these games for about a year now and I am still exactly where I started. I just want to press buttons, but then I pick "easy" characters that need to be upclose to do anything so I end up getting zoned out by pokes all the time because I am so predictable. For whatever reason I just can't learn how to play.
 
S

ShadowSoldier89

Member
Lostconfused said:
Seems like a pretty easy and straightforward character, relatively speaking. His specials cancel into each other and its kind of easy to understand how they interact with each other. His normal gatling is also relatively simple, with the only major complication being that you want to cancel HS into 6HS most of the time? Overall looks like a rather simple character compared to the rest of the GG cast, the meter management wrinkle is just something you can get used to with time.

The things I don't like is that while seems simple I still don't know how to use the character. It looks like the character can do a ton of damage, but that's obviously not for free, you need to get the critical hit from DP for a fully charged Beak Driver or have the opponent near a walk for a wall splat leading to follow ups. Since the timing on all of that is relatively tight, it's not something you can do on reaction and need a plan of action from the start. Which I don't have for whatever reason.

I dunno people ask me what I want like I can express that, but I've been dabbling with these games for about a year now and I am still exactly where I started. I just want to press buttons, but then I pick "easy" characters that need to be upclose to do anything so I end up getting zoned out by pokes all the time because I am so predictable. For whatever reason I just can't learn how to play.
Click to expand...
sounds like you've hit a plateau. Can either bang your ahead against a wall, or start watching matches to see what people are doing in the situations that you are being predictable.

Usually for me once I start to try and implement better tactics I start doing worse for a little while, but show improvement in the end. Its frustrating to get past though for sure
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
Lostconfused said:
Seems like a pretty easy and straightforward character, relatively speaking. His specials cancel into each other and its kind of easy to understand how they interact with each other. His normal gatling is also relatively simple, with the only major complication being that you want to cancel HS into 6HS most of the time? Overall looks like a rather simple character compared to the rest of the GG cast, the meter management wrinkle is just something you can get used to with time.

The things I don't like is that while seems simple I still don't know how to use the character. It looks like the character can do a ton of damage, but that's obviously not for free, you need to get the critical hit from DP for a fully charged Beak Driver or have the opponent near a walk for a wall splat leading to follow ups. Since the timing on all of that is relatively tight, it's not something you can do on reaction and need a plan of action from the start. Which I don't have for whatever reason.

I dunno people ask me what I want like I can express that, but I've been dabbling with these games for about a year now and I am still exactly where I started. I just want to press buttons, but then I pick "easy" characters that need to be upclose to do anything so I end up getting zoned out by pokes all the time because I am so predictable. For whatever reason I just can't learn how to play.
Click to expand...

HS into 6HS, that's more punish/mid-combo purposes. Don't worry if you're having issues with those on confirms or something.
Also don't worry about max charged Beak Driver at your level. You can learn his charged Beak Driver stuff after corner throw RC.

Check out Dogura's Sin or something, and don't overcomplicate Sin too much for you.
 
4

4r5

Member
Lostconfused said:
Seems like a pretty easy and straightforward character, relatively speaking. His specials cancel into each other and its kind of easy to understand how they interact with each other. His normal gatling is also relatively simple, with the only major complication being that you want to cancel HS into 6HS most of the time? Overall looks like a rather simple character compared to the rest of the GG cast, the meter management wrinkle is just something you can get used to with time.

The things I don't like is that while seems simple I still don't know how to use the character. It looks like the character can do a ton of damage, but that's obviously not for free, you need to get the critical hit from DP for a fully charged Beak Driver or have the opponent near a walk for a wall splat leading to follow ups. Since the timing on all of that is relatively tight, it's not something you can do on reaction and need a plan of action from the start. Which I don't have for whatever reason.

I dunno people ask me what I want like I can express that, but I've been dabbling with these games for about a year now and I am still exactly where I started. I just want to press buttons, but then I pick "easy" characters that need to be upclose to do anything so I end up getting zoned out by pokes all the time because I am so predictable. For whatever reason I just can't learn how to play.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see a lot of people gravitate to Sin for those reason, but then get stuck on how to accomplish anything with him.

I think the biggest misconception is that he's a mid range fighter, like Ky. After all, he has all these long range moves. But the more of Sin I see, the more I think he's actually a close range fighter, like Slayer.

I see a lot of people trying to build a game around his Beak Driver and other long range moves. But at the ranges you have to occupy to use these tools, you have so little threat to offer but Beak Driver and random Elk Hunts. But up close, Sin is a monster! Many, many, ways to mixup high, low, and throw; and even crossup mixups! And all of it leads to crazy damage.

Sin makes a lot more sense when you view him as an up close fighter. I think Beak Driver and his other ranged tools exist, not as a way to fight at range, but as a way for Sin to close the gap. Slayer closes the gap by coaxing people in to playing the mid range footsies game. When they open up and start playing the footsies, that's when you slip past their footsies with a Dandy Step or a teleport. I find Sin to be similar. But instead of getting in when they open up, he gets in when they close up. Sin uses the threat of his Beak Driver, etc, to freeze up their opponents. When they stop pressing buttons, Sin uses that hesitation to move in closer.


Once he does get in, he has a real strong and basic game off his 2H and 6H. 2H is insane guard gauge build up. Off 2H: chain to 2D, for basic low and is even on block, can convert to tick throw or re-pressure. Or jump cancel, either 2H or 2D, to a j.D for overhead. Or cancel to Leap for basic jump-in mixup. Real basic low/throw game there, with decent overhead option. And Leap, to spice things up.

Leap is actually a really amazing move. Canceled from your heavy attacks, you recovery at even with your opponent. Only wrinkle is that you recover in the air, which isn't a problem for Sin. Leap's range is adjustable, and Sin has very good anti-anti-air options.


Maybe helpful? Sorry, just used this as an opportunity to get some thoughts out of my head.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
4r5- I enjoy your write-ups about xrd a lot! Wish you did them more often.

Unrelated:
@AZAngelic: Wow WolfStreet puts Takumi into losers, then eliminates him from the tournament in pools. Crazy
Click to expand...

Japan went from using the weird to losing to the weird o_O
 
C

CurlyW

Member
Uhhh....

gsttOzM.png


Source: https://smash.gg/tournament/smash-summit
 
4

4r5

Member
The way GG thematically lines up their characters with their gameplay is soo good. Sin really is Sol and Ky's son. I mean, Ky's son, raised by Sol. He combines Ky's cautious approach with Sol's no-fucks real well.

I was hurt when AC threw that aside. Justice was the biggest offender. But maybe was worth it for the slowest rush down to ever exist in a fight game.


Zissou said:
4r5- I enjoy your write-ups about xrd a lot! Wish you did them more often.
Click to expand...

Trying to spend less time on forums and such. I've been having trouble finding time to practice. Figured, all that time spent on forums and aimless web surfing could be turned to training time.

Also, no Johnny, yet...
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
Anne said:
On a good day I guess there are like 6 or 7 :p

I don't even think it's a bad thing but choices are slim.
Click to expand...

Hm. Fox Marth Falco Sheik Peach Puff are the obvious 6. Then you have Pikachu, Capt. Falcon and Samus who can do serious work. So 9. Dunno if you want to count Yoshi but Amsa's taken it to Apex Top8. The recent EVO top8's contain two IC appearances, Shroomed taking Dr. Mario to the top8. Finally, people take Luigi surprisingly far, but meh.

So maybe more 9-12?

Pizarro said:
I forgot to ask. Why not Chun in ST, Oro in 3s and why Lilith?
Click to expand...

ST Chun is actually just because I haven't thought about it or tried her. I also just like ST Ryu a lot, but yeah Chun is not at all unthinkable.

Oro I just don't like how he plays out. He's near the bottom of the list of 3S characters I'm interested in or like to watch being played.

Lilith is just something about the way she gets played looking fun. Just walking back and forth and slipping in for grabs. I really don't like Sasquatch, but Q-Bee might be another option.
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
014ers and 015ers are coming up with the most LOL worthy threads. That title change is fitting. It's best to educate them though. People like Kuroda and Bas deserves mention when it comes to things like that.
 
M

Marz

Member
Justin Wong dominated in a game that had little international competition, a small community compared to games of today, and before the information age really took off.

His domination isn't as impressive as Zeros to me, especially in a game like Smash 4 that's so bad. Hard to be consistent in a game like that.

Has Justin ever won a MvC2 tournament with almost 2000 entrants?
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Marz said:
Justin Wong dominated in a game that had little international competition, a small community compared to games of today, and before the information age really took off.

His domination isn't as impressive as Zeros to me, especially in a game like Smash 4 that's so bad. Hard to be consistent in a game like that.

Has Justin ever won a MvC2 tournament with almost 2000 entrants?
Click to expand...

The "Is this guy who played Smash for a year the most dominant eSports player in history?" shows how there's huge bias against smash. I've heard dumber exaggerations with regards to ChrisG or Sonic Fox, comparing to Marvel 2 Justin dominance. But it's okay, because they play fighting games.
 
S

Swarna

Member
Marz said:
Justin Wong dominated in a game that had little international competition, a small community compared to games of today, and before the information age really took off.

His domination isn't as impressive as Zeros to me, especially in a game like Smash 4 that's so bad. Hard to be consistent in a game like that.

Has Justin ever won a MvC2 tournament with almost 2000 entrants?
Click to expand...
To be fair, Justin's feats are more a case of his past being elevated as a result of his current renown and reputation competing in popular games today.

But yeah, the FGC lacks perspective. Smash and subsequently Zero's feats are more relevant today than 99% of the games the FGC plays today. Considering MKX is progressively declining and because according to the internet everyone hates SF4 there's not much else that can compare.
 
T

Tripon

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
The "Is this guy who played Smash for a year the most dominant eSports player in history?" shows how there's huge bias against smash. I've heard dumber exaggerations with regards to ChrisG or Sonic Fox, comparing to Marvel 2 Justin dominance. But it's okay, because they play fighting games.
Click to expand...

The competition in the Marvel 3 scene and NRS scene that ChrisG and Sonic Fox have faced are more established and the events that each had for their respective scenes are larger than Smash 4 currently had.

Marvel 3 had multiple EVOs, with notable gods such as FChamp, Justin Wong, and Chris G. Sonic Fox has to face Yomi at every fucking convention. Sonic Fox also made more in winnings in one tournament alone (ESL MKX season 1) than ZeRo ever had in his entire career as a Smash 4 player.

Meanwhile, ZeRo best competition are Nairo, a player who did win APEX 2014 in Brawl, a game that was on the decline, DaBuz, who has not won a major tournament in either Brawl or Smash 4, ESAM, a player who has never won a Brawl or Smash 4 major tournament, and Mr. R who beat ZeRo once in the Sky's Invitational when Smash 4 was released in November 2014 and hasn't done it since.

ZeRo's streak is impressive in its own right, but when making the comparison to the actual competition he has in these events, it is less impressive than what Sonic Fox is doing, especially considering that Sonic Fox is playing and placing in multiple games (I'd like to see ZeRo try to play three different games such as DoA, Skullgirls, and MKX at the same time competitively and see how well he does) while ZeRo only focuses on Smash 4.

Maybe when we do look back we will see that ZeRo really did dominate in an era of strong players and competition and it just took the scene a while to mature and grow. But at the moment, the shit looks weak, and a big part of that is the Brawl players who haven't adapted fast enough to Smash 4 and whining all about it instead of getting better at the game and its system. An example of this is that it's just taking now for people to find the option selects for grab vs. shield in Smash 4.

And for the last time, counting fucking weeklies in his streak is the most asinine thing about his argument for domination.

Edit: And I'm one of the people who likes Smash in general and Smash 4 in particular as a competitive fighting game.
 
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