But he dominated when the game was already at it's peak in terms of skill and knowledge of the game. Justin can use low tier characters and still do more than most people. Only way to even compare Zero's dominance with Justin's is if he kept it up for a few more years. You are going to crown the guy best ever in anything when the game is barely over a year and more than half of the top players from previous games don't even give a crap about.
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But he dominated when the game was already at it's peak in terms of skill and knowledge of the game. Justin can use low tier characters and still do more than most people. Only way to even compare Zero's dominance with Justin's is if he kept it up for a few more years. You are going to crown the guy best ever in anything when the game is barely over a year and more than half of the top players from previous games don't even give a crap about.
DryEyeRelief
Member
You're nitpicking. Especially to argue that Zero has to deal with less competition when Yomi only has 3 relevant players. And that's stretching it. It's really only DJT who has a history of winning. Prize money is irrelevant. Counting weeklies is asinine? I agree. That's why when a bunch of ChrisG stans stated that his Big 2 dominance is more important than winning Evo, I thought they were insane.
But those three yomi players can beat Sonic Fox. DJT, MIT, and Slayerz and whomever is in Yomi have the ability and have beat SonicFox before. That is why SonicFox's run is impressive.
None of ZeRo's competition have shown that.
And prize money is not irrelevant if we are talking eSports. That ESL season 1 tournament was more eSports than anything Smash 4 had including Evo2015 where the pot was all community based. It has only been recently (and I mean in the last month) that orgs like MLG have started to embrace Smash in general and Smash 4 specifically and started offering pot bonuses that are more in line with other FGC games or other eSports scene.
Smash 4 growth is great but its not there yet as an eSport and ZeRo's dominating a small pond isn't that great of accomplish yet.
I don't know Marvel 3 history that well, so I will concede on ChrisG. SonicFox run this year in MKX and just domination in InJustice still blows away anything ZeRo has done though.
biosnake20
Member
Chris G pretty much dominated Marvel 3 for almost 2 years straight. Extremely impressive but it's hard to compare that to what Justin did because the FGC and the games were so different.
I do actually remember that James Chen once said he thought Chris G's dominance was comparable to Justin's which really surprised me. He's the last person I'd expect that from.
I do actually remember that James Chen once said he thought Chris G's dominance was comparable to Justin's which really surprised me. He's the last person I'd expect that from.
James Chen stated that because of the higher playerbase and the faster information age.... 2 years of MVC3 was equivalent to 4 or more years of MVC2. That's why he stated it was "comparable".
I would still disagree though.
I want to see the receipts on this so I can laugh at it.
biosnake20
Member
Oh ok so that's what he said. Why do you disagree?
DryEyeRelief
Member
I'm not going to nitpick with you. Trying to justify whether beating DJT at tournaments is a bigger accomplishment than beating Nario. No one is going to get anywhere with that.
I'm going to put this in simple terms.
People were quick to say ChrisG is the new Marvel 2 Justin Wong even though no one gives a shit about him now.
People are quick to say Sonic Fox is the new Marvel 2 Justin Wong even though no one cared about him last year.
Justin Wong himself said Bala is the new Marvel 2 Justin Wong even though his record for KOF13 can be questioned in all the same ways Zero's can (only one year, small pond) and he didn't even win Evo!
However, the smash player needs to actually win four years straight to even be put in contention of marvel 2 justin wong status!
You are making an argument that people in general are hypocritical towards Smash.
I'm telling you specifically why the argument for ZeRo being dominate and comparing that to others is flawed.
I'm realizing that these are two different discussions that neither of us want to discuss with other, so I'm going to drop it.
Just because Justin Wong said that Bala is the new MVC2 JW doesn't really make it true.
People throw that phrase around like candy (like James Chen saying ChrisG is the new Justin MVC2) but it hasn't really stuck yet.
SonicFox, ChrisG, Bala, Zero... all of these guys are not MVC2 Justin Wong tier yet.
By his own statement, if the growth of the game accelerated twice as fast then for ChrisG's dominance to be comparable to Justin Wong's... ChrisG would have to have won two EVOs in a row by now (at least). Then we can actually start comparing the two.
Shouta
Member
Comparing anyone to Justin's Marvel 2 days is just not a good idea because it's a different era. Information gulf between then and now, the player base gap is massive as well. That's a huge difference maker. The more players there are, the more chances for strong players to bring themselves up. The same goes for tournaments, we have more now than ever, providing a more opportunities for players to experience this situation and to grow.
Whoa. Yeah, that seems new as of the Laura build.
It's recent. Appeared in the Zangief build first iirc.
Shouta
Member
No, according to what he said on twitter. He had problems with his flight in Japan and probably just didn't feel like competing at SCR.
This MvC2 Justin Wong legend stuff is way overblown. Playing in one region of the world in an
era where the scene was spread out and small with traveling/sponsorship being not even close to what it is now.
No youtube, no twitter, no Japan or Europe. Fuck outta here.
Infiltration's 2012 SF4 run is a lot more impressive tbh.
Rice-Eater
Member
I'm kind of with Marz on this. Justin's dominance in Marvel 2 was the worldwide equivalent of being the best guy in his town before the information age. The guys that dominate nowadays are doing it on a global scale where all the info is out there for everybody to learn and use. Footage of top players are everywhere online to study and dissect. Collaboration isn't just between guys in their respective town, but across the entire country.
You have to respect Justin's dominance. But also take into account that it was a different era to fairly compare it to the kind of dominance we see nowadays that last no where near as long.
You have to respect Justin's dominance. But also take into account that it was a different era to fairly compare it to the kind of dominance we see nowadays that last no where near as long.
Professor Beef
Banned
Bingo.
biosnake20
Member
That's why seeing someone dominating for a year or two like Infiltration or Chris G did is so impressive. They're playing against so many players at such high levels at so many tournaments while people are always dissecting their gameplay. And still through all that they prevail.
Lostconfused
Member
I guess that's the really convenient thing about having known high level tournament players. You can just safely assume that what you will see is at least somehow useful to learning a character.
Average player videos are well, average and chances are they are not even winning because of character strengths but just solid basic gameplay and experience.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
They still haven't fixed the 2P glitch yet?!
call_kotaku
Member
notworksafe
Member
im only seeing a glitch on p1 side
ShinMaruku
Member
2012 Infiltration is probably GOAT level.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Momochi with the Laura combos
That's as standard as a long combo gets in 5 lol
Target combo - trigger - attack- ex move
Pretty much how SF has always been.
Momochi with the Laura combos
Momochi was playing Vega there, not Laura.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I think its Alex Meyers as the Laura
ShinMaruku
Member
ShinMaruku
Member
Man do I love everything about skullgirls except it plays like MVC2 and fuck that game. However I love Labzero's work. I will buy their next game no doubt.
Cmon dawg that game has Blackheart
ShinMaruku
Member
hitsugi
Member
Street Fighter 5-hits
Went 0-2 in Xrd. Only played Ky once and played miserably so I switched and stayed as Potemkin for the rest of it (and did better lol). Both sets went to last game last round. Life stuff is taking priority, so I haven't had real time to sit down and shake off the rust.
Like I've said before, I mostly entered to help attendance, support, and meet people. Next tourney, hopefully I'll be less busy so I can enter with the mindset on winning.
Like I've said before, I mostly entered to help attendance, support, and meet people. Next tourney, hopefully I'll be less busy so I can enter with the mindset on winning.
KidA Seven
Member
You also have to take into account how established the top players are. For example, a pool of 200 players that includes 10 god like players from previous games is more difficult than a pool of 200 players in a game that is barely giving rise to talents.
Another thing to take into account is region. Is a game more difficult to succeed in simply because of amount of competitors at a given tournament? Is today's current MKX more difficult than Japan's tournaments from the 90s or early 2000s when arcades were getting more players than today? I mean the online is ass in the US anyways and arcade culture, similar to Korea's pc cafe culture, are still areas that produce a higher competitive field than the online and weekly culture in the US tournament scene.
In other words, just because there is more information on your opponent, the tournament scene is more established, and you can practice online doesn't mean the competitive field is more difficult than the one from 10-20 years ago. I believe SF is harder now because it has a combination of all of these things I talked about, but not every game has that.
Another thing to take into account is region. Is a game more difficult to succeed in simply because of amount of competitors at a given tournament? Is today's current MKX more difficult than Japan's tournaments from the 90s or early 2000s when arcades were getting more players than today? I mean the online is ass in the US anyways and arcade culture, similar to Korea's pc cafe culture, are still areas that produce a higher competitive field than the online and weekly culture in the US tournament scene.
In other words, just because there is more information on your opponent, the tournament scene is more established, and you can practice online doesn't mean the competitive field is more difficult than the one from 10-20 years ago. I believe SF is harder now because it has a combination of all of these things I talked about, but not every game has that.
Ok, you're going to have to explain that one.
ShinMaruku
Member
Just one day I beat megaman and doing that shit over again the 6th time just killed megaman for me. From that day I was like "Fuck megaman" XD
WesternHeretic
Member
Basically Justin is Bart Starr. Chris G can be Pey Pey cause... he never gonna win again! He's gonna get one... and just one!
petran79
Banned
But werent players like Justin Wong the main reason we had and still have such rich information about fighting games in the first place? His opinion and analysis for various games still holds weight
Coffeeling
Member
The point wasn't about Justin's knowledge, simply comparing dominance then and now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge3PnXPnio8
FROM THE HEART! The Excellent Adventures of Gootecks & Mike Ross ft. Bobby Scar! Ep. 85
FROM THE HEART! The Excellent Adventures of Gootecks & Mike Ross ft. Bobby Scar! Ep. 85
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yep.
and that virtually confirms alex is in the game, right?
i can't see capcom only putting alex in the game as a stage background character unless they enjoy receiving a strong backlash from the fans.
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