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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters

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shaowebb

Member
Oh man CEOtaku is this weekend? Can't wait to see that side tourney for AH3 Love Max. I should ask if any of the TVC guys will be doing anything on the side of the side tourney. I remember something like a side tourney coming up but then I worked for nearly a month straight and had to travel so everything is a blur now...
 
This stream sucks lol. It's super hard to follow what's going on since challonge isn't updated and they're going match to match often in the middle of matches.
 

Shun

Member
I am a sucker for ArcSys buttons, I have 8 more on the way and waiting for a new Guilty Gear set.

CRf9PKqUAAAIcXy.jpg


4 button layout is my preference for nearly all ArcSys/Gundam/other game.
 
After the brackets got re-seeded, we could've had Neogaf on Neogaf violence.

Good thing I am absolutely terrible and lost so that didn't happen

Kappa

( ,_,)
 

shaowebb

Member
Watching some CEOtaku right now to see some matches at games I haven't explored or seen before. Under Night seems cool, but I am getting seriously fed up with how generic and fashionista nearly EVERY female character is in anime fighters watching this.

Girl has a gun? Put her in nylons, a beret, and a skirt with a dressy top.
Girl has a sword? Put her in a school uniform.
Girl has an angel theme? Just put her in a lolita dress.

Holy shit work your gimmick here. Nothing about these designs is supporting their themes. They're just generic tropey female waifu pandering bullshit. This shit gets me pretty fired up as an artist. Look at the shit they put into Waldstein's design. Why is it female characters don't get anything elaborate and supportive visually to selling their playstyles and props? You have a fucking gun and you get a girl on a date dress skirt and beret outfit? Its not even like a green beret military associative beret in its look here man. Arcana Heart is a whole game of this, Aquapazza is a whole game of various anime gals and all of them save a few Urawatemuno or whatever designs are generic and even those are meh, Under Night is super fashion show gals, and the list goes on. At least the Blaz Blue and Gulty Gear gals pass silhouette tests and are extremely distinctive and recognizable. I wouldn't call em all badass, but at least they are good designs.

Why cant girls be the ones getting the Ironman Armor, or the monster body parts, or the cybernetic scary looking shit (and not the chobits looking stuff) though? Not enough badass designs for women fighting game characters...

Gettin pissed...gonna go draw some shit now.
 

shaowebb

Member
uniel is boring for all characters design, though I like Hilda

EDIT: Putting the stream on, I like Orie too, and waldstein is fucking terrible

Waldstein is at least designed around his gimmick though.
  • grappler
  • angry violent looking attacks
  • long range pokes
  • powerful presence

You read that hit list and look at Waldstein and go "yeah okay I can see this being like that."
The girl with the gun doesn't really sell her style and gimmick at all in visual design. Heck that large sword using girl is dressed as a school girl and Orie, who is designed with a backflip for a back dash is in a giant long skirt! Though I will say Orie pulls off the "elegant" aspect of her design doc she just does it in the most generic way possible and some of her animations do not fit her outfit in terms of designed with that costume in mind.

So many design things just ignored in their mindset here. They prioritized waifu tropes over anything that made sense for the playstyles on the girls.
 
I like Under Night character designs. Especially Orie and Hilda. Sure beats the ASW look with accessories on top of belts on top of accessories.
Also most things Capcom has put out.

Edit: Also keep in mind Eltnum ("The girl with the gun") is a guest character. Can't really change her design.
 

shaowebb

Member
I like Under Night character designs. Especially Orie and Hilda. Sure beats the ASW look with accessories on top of belts on top of accessories.
Also most things Capcom has put out.

No real argument there. At least the Blaz Blue stuff passes silhouette tests on most of them and is distinctive. These UNIEL ones and most of the stuff I've been seeing as I venture through the list of poverty fighters on the market don't. Overall, I think more focus needs put on quality female designs in general. Most just come across as "aaaaaand girl" as their gimmick :(

Honestly if Orie is summoning a stand and they wanted elegant why didn't they go with a "queen" theme and animate her as sending out her subjects or something? Or sense she's a sword user why not a field cavalry sword and a military outfit and have the same sending out the troops animation style...at least in pants her backflip would make sense.

Gah! Fucking anime...waifu wars everywhere.
 
I like Under Night character designs. Especially Orie and Hilda. Sure beats the ASW look with accessories on top of belts on top of accessories.
Also most things Capcom has put out.

Edit: Also keep in mind Eltnum ("The girl with the gun") is a guest character. Can't really change her design.
i own UNIEL and never really played it. Looking through the cast only those two stand out as ones I like.

BlazBlue designs are my favorite by far
 
Why cant girls be the ones getting the Ironman Armor, or the monster body parts, or the cybernetic scary looking shit (and not the chobits looking stuff) though? Not enough badass designs for women fighting game characters...

Actually, this makes me think... Doesn't this just mean you prefer more spectacular designs? Like monsters and cyborgs and powersuits and aliens and stuff.

'cause that could be just a taste thing.

Personally generally prefer normal looking people with normal-ish proportions. Most of the cast of SF4 is already unreasonably buff for me. And giant monsters and aliens and such, ugh. (Do like Persona designs, 'cause you get both the person and the monster~ )
 

kirblar

Member
Actually, this makes me think... Doesn't this just mean you prefer more spectacular designs? Like monsters and cyborgs and powersuits and aliens and stuff.

'cause that could be just a taste thing.

Personally generally prefer normal looking people with normal-ish proportions. Most of the cast of SF4 is already unreasonably buff for me. And giant monsters and aliens and such, ugh. (Do like Persona designs, 'cause you get both the person and the monster~ )
SF4 w/ an Awesome Kong-esque newbie would be fantastic. The issue is that the women tend to be 100% really really hot, while its not a requirement for the dudes- they're allowed to be old/weird.
 

shaowebb

Member
Actually, this makes me think... Doesn't this just mean you prefer more spectacular designs? Like monsters and cyborgs and powersuits and aliens and stuff.

'cause that could be just a taste thing.

Personally generally prefer normal looking people with normal-ish proportions. Most of the cast of SF4 is already unreasonably buff for me. And giant monsters and aliens and such, ugh. (Do like Persona designs, 'cause you get both the person and the monster~ )

I guess its that to a degree, but when you show someone a picture of a character its just good design that they can get a real feel for who the character is and what they do. Take the female designs I mentioned and put them in front of someone and you'll end up having to tell them a story to give the viewer any idea of how they fight.

Art that requires someone to give you an elaborate backstory or any sort of explanation is generally just bullshit. It's like trying to write an elaborate reason for a bikini clad sniper in Metal Gear. If it requires a backstory to make sense its just bullshit.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
UNIEL designs shine in sprite form (where they were pretty much started with how FB works).
The person doing the actual art, it doesn't translate as well.

The neutral stance for the characters look way better than most of BB's imo.
lol ceotaku, even the commentary team looks bored af

Not really. I actually really like Ryan Hunter's commentary.

Plus we don't need a bunch of fake Yipes on commentary to create dumb hype.
 
I guess its that to a degree, but when you show someone a picture of a character its just good design that they can get a real feel for who the character is and what they do.

Doesn't that just limit you to having to put super obvious tells on a character? Like give the defensive character a shield and the zoner a crossbow or whatever.

Look at Ryu and Makoto for example. They wear the same thing. There's zero ways to tell one is fireball+DP and the other is in your face maulings from just their static pictures. Or Guile. Military man in green in a boxer's stance means... defensive character that does backflips and can toss wobbly yellow things. What?

By contrast at least Orie has her rapier right there. Outside of obvious props like that i'm kinda having a hard time understanding what you'd want to see?
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Ryan Hunter is my fave commentator along side those two dudes who did one of them Philly tourneis a few years back. They made shit too funny.
 

WarRock

Member
Doesn't that just limit you to having to put super obvious tells on a character? Like give the defensive character a shield and the zoner a crossbow or whatever.

Look at Ryu and Makoto for example. They wear the same thing. There's zero ways to tell one is fireball+DP and the other is in your face maulings from just their static pictures. Or Guile. Military man in green in a boxer's stance means... defensive character that does backflips and can toss wobbly yellow things. What?

By contrast at least Orie has her rapier right there. Outside of obvious props like that i'm kinda having a hard time understanding what you'd want to see?
You can be subtle when designing characters. Makoto's scarf is used to show movement instead of her clothes or exaggerated features, for instance. Compare her gi and scarf animations with Q-Bee's body spinning all around for anything.

Old Potenkim design was great too, showed a lot of his backstory and personality with the hunched stance and big hands.

SF2 cast was designed around stereotypes though, so yeah, not the best case. SF5 Ken redesign is better example, his hair and clothes are showing that this dude is going to constantly show off, run, move recklessly. Watch how his hair bangs move around his face while he is doing tatsus, step kicks and runs compared to SF4 or 3.
 

Marz

Member
Gotta agree on Uniel being really generic, the whole artsyle and designs just seem so safe.

Feel like thats almost part of its appeal though it gives the game a super "clean" look to it if that makes sense.
 

shaowebb

Member
Doesn't that just limit you to having to put super obvious tells on a character? Like give the defensive character a shield and the zoner a crossbow or whatever.

Look at Ryu and Makoto for example. They wear the same thing. There's zero ways to tell one is fireball+DP and the other is in your face maulings from just their static pictures. Or Guile. Military man in green in a boxer's stance means... defensive character that does backflips and can toss wobbly yellow things. What?

By contrast at least Orie has her rapier right there. Outside of obvious props like that i'm kinda having a hard time understanding what you'd want to see?

It doesn't really limit anything because you don't really have to put anything super obvious on a character and be hamfisted. It comes down to body lines, and body language to carry some things, but you do need silhouettes that are distinct and outfits that convey a sense of how a character moves. I like it when they have some signature cores to tie the design's theme to its moveset, but mainly size, angles, bodylanguage and lines can convey everything from speed or power to personality.

You want powerful you convey mass and weight. Waldstein has the expression thats angry, the booming walk cycle and the muscles which while hamfisted works. Folks see that on the select screen and know a very general sense of what they will likely find with him.

You want someone lithe and fast in moveset and you have to convey they can move in their outfit which is where Orie fails in one part. Her outfit does not look designed for mobility. Also her body language is a mixed bag. She barely has any "commanding presence" sort of body language so it doesn't really make sense when she uses a stand she just sort of comes across as "oh...I guess she can do that." You don't have to beat them over the head but you can definitely make it more meaningful with body language to emphasis a commanding presence. Plus if she's meant to move around a lot and be fast then I'm sorry her super long dress just doesn't convey that sense to folks at the select screen. All you'll know is she has a sword.

Also the sword user with the schoolgirl uniform doesn't even really convey a sense of weight to her weapon so you can't tell if she's gonna be a meaty throwing heavy hitter or a fast moving slasher. Its anime so sword size doesn't necessarily convey anything. Nothing is conveyed by her body language in how she moves with that thing and her outfit is a blank slate of genericism. You just can't tell. It fails silhouette tests and it fails to convey anything about them in bodylanguage.

Theres a lot of ways to convey a character to your audience. From the way they move to their size, to their outfit...it all comes together to convey moods and how they will likely feel. You can't just go with fashionista stuff and call it a day. You have to bleed your gimmick in how you move, stand, fall, and yes how they dress. A lot of whats bugging me in UNIEL on that stream is you can barely sense any personality from the female cast at all. Angry? Cold? Brave and hopeful? Determined? You get nothing...just generic.

Its not often I bitch on anime games, but I wont really give them a pass on all things just because so many overlooked anime games actually have stuff to offer. There is a lot of generic art in the female side of character design with anime and its pretty ridiculous how its become the standard. I can't even tell you how many schoolgirl characters I've seen in fighters at this point...
 

El Sloth

Banned
I don't think Orie is very generic at all.

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I can understand characters like Linne or Nanase who are literally just tiny girls in school outfits with big ass blades. That's some generic-ass shit. Byakuya without his spider claws is p. boring too. Chaos just looks like ass.

I like Merkava even if he's sort of just an evangelion rip

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I think Hilda and Yuzu are great

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Gordeau and Hyde are alright

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Well, at least Hyde settles for only two belts. Carmine's alright too. That may be his playstyle coloring my impressions of him tho.
 
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