• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters

Status
Not open for further replies.
As someone who didn't start playing seriously until SF4, I was always a little fearful of SFV because it meant the end of SF4. The first beta changed my mind. I found my long time character very fun to play(Ryu obviously) and I found the other characters pretty challenging as well since they seemed to have strong tools themselves. I thought this was the base game and the nerfs or buffs would be minor from this point forward. Since then it's been nerf city and hasn't stopped since then.

I'm really afraid that this is the final direction of the game until release. Speaking for Ryu only, I don't understand what they're doing to him. He doesn't have reliable hit confirms unless you're point blank with your opponent. I could live with that if he hit harder but he doesn't. His damage for normals and specials are either equal or less than what you get in SF4(mostly less though). So I have to try and fight other characters with a low forward that has less range, does less damage, and when canceled into fireball is very unsafe unless spaced near max range.

They want players to commit, but we're committing without the reward. No hit confirms(unless point blank), no oki, no stun, no damage(please don't bring up how confirming into Super is so good). Ok so I have no idea how other characters play and they may still be pretty good, this is just the rant of a long time Ryu player. I had to get all that out of my system. I'm probably going to buy SFV no matter what but I'm going to do it with a bitter taste in my mouth if the final version of the game is close to what we have right now.

Well their was one good thing I guess. Ryu seems to walk faster so pressuring with st. LK was kind of fun. I tried spamming that as much as possible because everybody is always hitting buttons so it was fun to see it land as a counter hit 3-4 times in a row.
Bro I agree with everything you said. I played Ryu first beta and the nerfs he and Nash received are completely unnecessary. Why remove those jab linking to mp combo the game is low enough on combo department as it is. Yeah man no hit confirm with him just fish out pokes with mp or mk. No reliable way to crush counter unless opponent makes some severe punishable mistake. The game imo is a mess. And not a,very good fighting game. They are trying to move the game to a basic heavy game like ST but with so low damage output like the game is now. It just doesn't work imo.
 
Do you guys play with a dustwasher?

I took off the shaft cover and dustwasher off my stick when I put it together but I'm wondering if I should leave it on, even though I don't like either of them, to make sure nothing gets down into the lever.
 
For those of you who are going to be playing a new RPG that's coming out in the first week of December
(Xenoblade Chronicles X)
, don't go into the SF5 physics thread that's in General Gaming right now because there's unmarked spoilers for it (I haven't even played the game yet and it's obvious what this person is referring to despite them thinking they're being clever).

lmao haven't seen it but that's so fucking stupid
 
Don't think I'm gonna bother doing the online tournament again

shits like a full day commitment and the connection is gonna be ass again

Wish I coulda got my double perfect on this Karin player recorded. I think they took out the replay feature for the Beta smh
 

Tripon

Member
For those of you who are going to be playing a new RPG that's coming out in the first week of December
(Xenoblade Chronicles X)
, don't go into the SF5 physics thread that's in General Gaming right now because there's unmarked spoilers for it (I haven't even played the game yet and it's obvious what this person is referring to despite them thinking they're being clever).
Just saw that thread. Took one look at how the discussion was shaping up and chuckled. Some people just can't help themselves.
 
SFV is about aggression and spacing in close quarters, so it isn't surprising that Ryu isn't nearly as good as he was in SFIV. Stopping what someone can do right in front of your face matters more than spacing someone out to stop movement or baiting jump ins. Without spacing, you need to rely on Ryu's footsie ability, and it seems to be okay.

It seems like the intention for SFV is that path to success is similar for all the characters, but how that path is laid out is different based on what character you use. Whereas SFIV was about forging your own path and changing that path overtime based on raw experience, and learning.

I hate how competition, casual or professional, is based on how new or old something is. SFV could end up being a great fighting game, but we already know that SFIV is one of the best competitively.
 

Anne

Member
The boobs thing is funny cause most women and even socjus types I know like Laura and think she's great. I tend to agree, the only thing I'd like is if there were some more well designed women in the game that had less of a fan service call.

On the subject of "buff everyone", the SFV team probably has a baseline "power level" they wanna keep people at because of pacing and other design stuff. I think it's fine damage/stun has gone down, because I don't wanna play another consistent 2 touch Street Fighter at this point.
 
SFV is about aggression and spacing in close quarters, so it isn't surprising that Ryu isn't nearly as good as he was in SFIV. Stopping what someone can do right in front of your face matters more than spacing someone out to stop movement or baiting jump ins. Without spacing, you need to rely on Ryu's footsie ability, and it seems to be okay.

It seems like the intention for SFV is that path to success is similar for all the characters, but how that path is laid out is different based on what character you use. Whereas SFIV was about forging your own path and changing that path overtime based on raw experience, and learning.

I hate how competition, casual or professional, is based on how new or old something is. SFV could end up being a great fighting game, but we already know that SFIV is one of the best competitively.
Ryu wasn't even good in the later half of SFIV. He only was good in vanilla and super, he kind of dropped off the map in AE, and in AE 2012 and USF4 people started to pick up Evil Ryu because he was basically Ryu with more options and combos..

Just give Ryu his donkey kick back Capcom, I don't see why that returned in SFxT and MvC3 but not SFV...

And I'm not liking how SFV is shaping up on combo front either... It seems like everyone has the same combo variations, and light to medium/heavy being gone.. I thought it was a nice middle ground where hitconfirming from lights you couldn't easily link a bunch in a row without getting pushed out of range (unlike SF4). Was a nice compromise..
 

Anne

Member
Burst damage for blowing all your meter should be worth it. Unless a character is getting a CA every round (like an Ultra >_>) and is using it cause fuck utility, it's whatever.

It also makes since why certain things were nerfed, like Bison's + special move, because of the way it seems they want the game to play out. A lot of the nerfs make sense if the end goal of the game is to have aggressive spacing like they say they want.
 

Sayad

Member
Bro I agree with everything you said. I played Ryu first beta and the nerfs he and Nash received are completely unnecessary. Why remove those jab linking to mp combo the game is low enough on combo department as it is. Yeah man no hit confirm with him just fish out pokes with mp or mk. No reliable way to crush counter unless opponent makes some severe punishable mistake.
Ryu still have a long safe hit-confirm string, c.lp, s.lp, s.lk works and can be confirmed into special moves or even his CA. You can still hit-confirm into his mp string(or even crouching mk) from back+hk, it's just a greater risk greater reward thing.
 

kirblar

Member
The boobs thing is funny cause most women and even socjus types I know like Laura and think she's great. I tend to agree, the only thing I'd like is if there were some more well designed women in the game that had less of a fan service call.

On the subject of "buff everyone", the SFV team probably has a baseline "power level" they wanna keep people at because of pacing and other design stuff. I think it's fine damage/stun has gone down, because I don't wanna play another consistent 2 touch Street Fighter at this point.
Yeah, Laura's design is great, the whole issue in the game is the camera, not the actual designs. (Even Mika, who's completely absurd voice and super take make it funny instead of sexy.)
I still feel like the burst damage from CAs is really high.
They're pretty much the only thing that hasn't been nerfed w/ damage/stun, so they're now huge damage relative to other options.
 
Yeah, Laura's design is great, the whole issue in the game is the camera, not the actual designs. (Even Mika, who's completely absurd voice and super take make it funny instead of sexy.)

They're pretty much the only thing that hasn't been nerfed w/ damage/stun, so they're now huge damage relative to other options.
Don't think a woman busting out of her top is really a great design..
 

Anne

Member
Ryu still have a long safe hit-confirm string, c.lp, s.lp, s.lk works and can be confirmed into special moves or even his CA. You can still hit-confirm into his mp string(or even crouching mk) from back+hk, it's just a greater risk greater reward thing.

Isn't b+HK + and still relatively fast?

Confirms into specials off 2 lights are good enough.

This basically btw. Especially if that special you can cancel into allows you to keep a situation in your favor afterwards.
 
Ryu wasn't even good in the later half of SFIV. He only was good in vanilla and super, he kind of dropped off the map in AE, and in AE 2012 and USF4 people started to pick up Evil Ryu because he was basically Ryu with more options and combos..

Just give Ryu his donkey kick back Capcom, I don't see why that returned in SFxT and MvC3 but not SFV...

And I'm not liking how SFV is shaping up on combo front either... It seems like everyone has the same combo variations, and light to medium/heavy being gone.. I thought it was a nice middle ground where hitconfirming from lights you couldn't easily link a bunch in a row without getting pushed out of range (unlike SF4). Was a nice compromise..

While what you said is very true, Ryu was still a very viable character competitively throughout SFIV's life. It came down to how many matchups someone could endure as a character with very simple tricks. Ryu is about fundamentals, Evil Ryu was about elevating those fundamentals if someone was up to the task.
 
I like the lights not linking into the higher buttons.

And the damage seems fine too me. Idk, are we getting into marvel 3 territory where we thought damage is too low in games early life? I wanna see how it actually plays out when the game is out and people know what they are doing really.

As for ryu. I have picked him up since my man DeeJay is not in.

I think he is fine. Im just taking him as he is. i am having fun. My only big beef is crouching mk feels hella stubby and the corner juggles with ex dp taken out. I wish hp could special cancel as well.

Poking with mk, fishing for confirms with mp. Harassing with standing lk. Walking in and out, fireballs. mp DP. Using crouching mp more. b+hk. I can still confirm off 2 lights into special. Plus he seems faster in the latest beta. Im trying to wean myself of relying on crouching jab so much from so much sf4 play (not hating, i love sf4).

Maybe he will end up ass when this game comes all together. Maybe it will be boring. But like, right now i dont agree that it is heading down some bad direction.
 

Sayad

Member
Isn't b+HK + and still relatively fast?
I thought it was really slow, like, only slightly faster than his F+HP. Bootleg framedata has four different entries for B+HK, each with different startup, but they seem to agree it's negative on block.
 

Anne

Member
I thought it was really slow, like, slightly faster than his F+HP. Bootleg framedata has four different entries for B+HK, each with different startup, but they seem to agree it's negative on block.

Ah, it's -2. That's still really good though!

I see the start up listed as all these different things. If it's 8 like a lot of places list then that's incredible. If it's 15f~ then it still has good use but isn't nuts. I'd still frametrap with it.

I'm willing to bet if people started using cr.MK more as a counter poke and started using fireball more around the SF4 cr.MK range it might work out okay.
 

Amedo310

Member
Do you guys play with a dustwasher?

I took off the shaft cover and dustwasher off my stick when I put it together but I'm wondering if I should leave it on, even though I don't like either of them, to make sure nothing gets down into the lever.


I use them to make sure that dust does not get inside my V.S. sticks, especially since I grease them with Shin-Etsu Silicone every 4 to 5 months.
 
Personality-wise, Laura feels Iike the Morrigan of SF.

Don't think a woman busting out of her top is really a great design..
They will add a pretty princess in an elegant gown for you later, just you wait.

Burst damage for blowing all your meter should be worth it. Unless a character is getting a CA every round (like an Ultra >_>) and is using it cause fuck utility, it's whatever.

It also makes since why certain things were nerfed, like Bison's + special move, because of the way it seems they want the game to play out. A lot of the nerfs make sense if the end goal of the game is to have aggressive spacing like they say they want.
It's worth it, but half of a life bar is a bit much. It looks like damage was toned down a bit, though. We'll see.

I don't see the logic behind the Bison comment. Plenty of characters have safe pressure that is + on block. Karin and Necalli are frame trap city.
 

Anne

Member
I don't see the logic behind the Bison comment. Plenty of characters have safe pressure that is + on block. Karin and Necalli are frame trap city.

Bison's in the corner was a guessing game that could lead into itself indefinitely. Just feels like they want the focus on pressure to be a couple of good things that can be safe then "end", rather than being able to keep forcing consistent blockstun while keeping the guessing game going directly in their face. Karin and Necalli are both real good, but they can't really frame trap you then make the guessing game of forcing you into a - situation while still frametrapping you xN.

Kinda feel like they want you to take the strike/throw situation whether it be safe or +, then have to have a neutral situation after, similar to Alpha/3S era stuff. Flow would be like gain advantage > mix up > left at advantageous neutral situation > look for whiff/mash/etc or walk forward to reset the RPS. Bison didn't really have that last part, in the corner it was just RPS > RPS for awhile before he had to challenge for the reset. Wish they would've made the move work differently with more pushback or fiddling with start up rather than just straight making it more -.
 
Bruh it's called cheongsam. Chun-Li's clothes is cheongsam.
The cheongsam (/ˈtʃiːɒŋˈsæm/,[1] /ˈtʃɒŋˈsæm/ or /ˈtʃɒŋˈsɑːm/) is a body-hugging one-piece Chinese dress for women
Be happy, then, and let the guys that want a sultry babe be happy, too.
I don't really like Chun li's design at all, and I would be fine with Laura's design if she had a more practical top, I just think it's really dumb for a fighter to be dressed with a loosely tied top. Hell if she was just wearing a sports bra under that would be a little better. So for in general most of the SFV women are underwhelming.
 

DunpealD

Member
Ryu still have a long safe hit-confirm string, c.lp, s.lp, s.lk works and can be confirmed into special moves or even his CA. You can still hit-confirm into his mp string(or even crouching mk) from back+hk, it's just a greater risk greater reward thing.

Cross post from the beta thread:
Looks like they buffed his V-Skill now removing it from trash tier V-Skill.
Probably reduced startup or less likely reduced frame advantage for blocked mids, since he can now blow up mid into mid frametraps like Karins cr.mp into st.mp which didn't work in the second beta. Light into light frametrap still works against parry and lands a counterhit on its startup.

I also tested parrying all lights. Only Chun cr.lp, Rashid cr.lp, Ryu cr.lp and Cammy st.lp are safe from parry punish. Some are even punishable with st.mp.

In turn his b.HK got nerfed hard. It is now no longer possible to link into st.mp which also means you cannot keep pressuring using HK tatsu ender.
I also think that unlike USFIV Ryus fireballs have different startups depending on which punch you push. HP is the fastest from what I could see, but I have no idea if they have different recovery.

Some additional information! Ryu needs to parry 12 times to fill 1 part of the v-trigger gauge.

As you can see in the quote b.HK is no longer linkable to st.mp, instead only st.lk.
The long hitconfirm isn't worth that much since every time you tag your opponent with it you return to neutral which is kinda bad for Ryu due to his stubby normals. Not to forget you can only confirm it into HP/EX Hadouken and EX Tatsu when opponent is crouching, when standing you can additionally link into mk tatsu. Neither keeps him in to pressure.

As someone who didn't start playing seriously until SF4, I was always a little fearful of SFV because it meant the end of SF4. The first beta changed my mind. I found my long time character very fun to play(Ryu obviously) and I found the other characters pretty challenging as well since they seemed to have strong tools themselves. I thought this was the base game and the nerfs or buffs would be minor from this point forward. Since then it's been nerf city and hasn't stopped since then.

I'm really afraid that this is the final direction of the game until release. Speaking for Ryu only, I don't understand what they're doing to him. He doesn't have reliable hit confirms unless you're point blank with your opponent. I could live with that if he hit harder but he doesn't. His damage for normals and specials are either equal or less than what you get in SF4(mostly less though). So I have to try and fight other characters with a low forward that has less range, does less damage, and when canceled into fireball is very unsafe unless spaced near max range.

They want players to commit, but we're committing without the reward. No hit confirms(unless point blank), no oki, no stun, no damage(please don't bring up how confirming into Super is so good). Ok so I have no idea how other characters play and they may still be pretty good, this is just the rant of a long time Ryu player. I had to get all that out of my system. I'm probably going to buy SFV no matter what but I'm going to do it with a bitter taste in my mouth if the final version of the game is close to what we have right now.

Well their was one good thing I guess. Ryu seems to walk faster so pressuring with st. LK was kind of fun. I tried spamming that as much as possible because everybody is always hitting buttons so it was fun to see it land as a counter hit 3-4 times in a row.

I think it is likely they are trying to turn Ryu into the opposite of Ken, i.e. defensive shoto who can turn the tide with correct read. Considering they buffed his parry and what the change brought with it, I'd like to see them to buff the parry even more. Like parry on reversal 0 frame startup to counter any frametrap or meaties on wakeup and a red parry as new command like f.MP+MK that enables him to blow up block strings but comes with a catch like longer recovery or only available in v-trigger. If they intend to keep the damage like it is.

It would fit the current Ryu style due to his stubby normals and forces the opponent to change rythm and possibly even more rewarding because you can crush counter a false read. Also works with his current "boring/old" moveset.
 
I don't really like Chun li's design at all, and I would be fine with Laura's design if she had a more practical top, I just think it's really dumb for a fighter to be dressed with a loosely tied top. Hell if she was just wearing a sports bra under that would be a little better. So for in general most of the SFV women are underwhelming.

Your perspective is out of whack.
 
Bison's in the corner was a guessing game that could lead into itself indefinitely. Just feels like they want the focus on pressure to be a couple of good things that can be safe then "end", rather than being able to keep forcing consistent blockstun while keeping the guessing game going directly in their face. Karin and Necalli are both real good, but they can't really frame trap you then make the guessing game of forcing you into a - situation while still frametrapping you xN.

Kinda feel like they want you to take the strike/throw situation whether it be safe or +, then have to have a neutral situation after, similar to Alpha/3S era stuff. Flow would be like gain advantage > mix up > left at advantageous neutral situation > look for whiff/mash/etc or walk forward to reset the RPS. Bison didn't really have that last part, in the corner it was just RPS > RPS for awhile before he had to challenge for the reset. Wish they would've made the move work differently with more pushback or fiddling with start up rather than just straight making it more -.
It wasnt even + enough to be a safe string, though. You could jab through it every time. People keep treating it like it had no response for some reason.
 

Perro

Member
Is the online of KOFxiii on Steam actually good or good compared to the console version? Because I've only had terrible matches.
At least I can go to practice mode in endless.
 
having Laura just letting them hang free is a bit weird, though

even giving her a bikini top to wear under the gi would improve the design for me. It's the difference between her being a sexy girl who's also a jujitsu fighter as opposed to a girl who dressed up as "sexy jujitsu fighter" for Halloween.
 
there's a guy doing a drawing for US $60 credit for the system of your choice if you answer a few questions on gaming side

So what you're saying then is my game is gonna need bigger tits and less clothing?

having not seen the current size or dress of your characters . . . . ideally, yes
 

jbug617

Banned
I got bodied most of the night during the beta. Really can't wait to play with Dhalsim. Thinking i'm going to play Sim and Chun in SF5.
 

Sayad

Member
Is the online of KOFxiii on Steam actually good or good compared to the console version? Because I've only had terrible matches.
At least I can go to practice mode in endless.
About as good, or a little bit worse than SFIV while playing with friends you have good connection with. Unplayable with randoms, like, don't even think about it.
 

shaowebb

Member
having not seen the current size or dress of your characters . . . . ideally, yes

Welp Q...guess that means we're gonna have to make our CG version of you fucking STACKED. I was already modeled in a thong though so no worries there...I gots da booty covered.
Am I joking or aren't I? You don't Know! :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom