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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters
- Thread starter "God's Beard!"
- Start date
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If you've ever thought the situation required you to post this about yourself on the Internet, damn, stop and think.
Yeah but part of that process is seeing adjustments and discussing whether they are good or bad. Not that "shit they nerfed Ryu" is particularly useful but "no, fuck you, you can't even discuss changes pre-release" isn't either.
I'm sure this goes without saying as well, but people do realize that having a different version with severe changes could simply be a test to see how it works in a public environment and not be directly representative of the final intention of final release right?
Like making ryu have weakened tools not to make him weaker but to see if that impacts how bison is played etc. Changes to characters aren't exclusive to making one character weaker or stronger but also to how they play in the context of the entire game and how it impacts other character's approaches.
Like making ryu have weakened tools not to make him weaker but to see if that impacts how bison is played etc. Changes to characters aren't exclusive to making one character weaker or stronger but also to how they play in the context of the entire game and how it impacts other character's approaches.
DryEyeRelief
Member
You know what's great about 2015 compared to 2009? We have choices
Professor Beef
Banned
People acting like the game has already released is a problem too, but nobody seems to be aware enough of that. I also never said the latter.
Lostconfused
Member
NLBC isn't showing MK as much either? I mean, Xrd was streamed but not MK, I mean that seems kind of random.
Maybe it's just the niche group here, but MK definitely doesn't have as much hype as it did earlier in the year in this thread.
notworksafe
Member
No one said you can't discuss pre-release changes but when people are moaning over nerfs or posting that image from Capcom about avoiding nerfs with a "lol capcom smh" then they look like idiots and deserve to be called out as such.
Professor Beef
Banned
NLBC is a local that hardly represents the MK scene at all. People in that area probably liked it when it came out, and have cooled off recently.
Professor Beef
Banned
I'd blame that on the drama involving Spooky and Cen. Well, I would if I knew what came from it.
Something something conflict of interest, parting ways. But it's supposed to keep going until February so yeah, idk. People just want a new game/less stagnancy in players maybe
DryEyeRelief
Member
The beta is training mode with no means of turning off fight request. It's a beta to test the netcode. The characters are just the incentive to get you to play and to advertise that they exist.
Indeed
With so much drama in the N-L-B-C
It's kinda hard bein S P-double-O-......
ill see myself out
Lostconfused
Member
Personally I think looking at "retail release" as gold standard is outdated and no longer applicable to the current development trends. Kickstarter and "Early Access" are the biggest reasons for this, but the "esports" development approach is as well. DOTA and League are in constant development, that was the case before a retail release and has didn't stop being so after.
The moment the game is "public" anything it is open to valid criticism in my opinion. SFV is just more controlled and high profile than Rising Thunder, but they are fairly similar in terms of roll out of content.
Everything is open to criticism, of course, but people need to have some scope and understanding.
If in the next stress test they put out a version of Vega that was entirely charge and could combo off jab jab jab in to some big damage, that doesn't always mean that's the version they're intending to use. Changes in the development process frequently happen basically as a "what if this happened" idea. The intention is far greater than the scope of what it does to that one character.
The problem here is that people think every change they see is a reflection of the final product. To complain about something while not even knowing what the intended purpose of that change is and to act like it's a purposeful change to make a character worse or better when the game hasn't reached a final release state yet is irrational.
Your use of something like Rising Thunder is different, since it's meant to be a playable version that is in the hands of everyone at all times. These limited release stress tests and betas aren't at all designed as that.
eh I'll take the l for that
oh my
Is console beta not like a loketest? It is basically a loketest that is more open. nothing is confirm it is to help finalize and gather feedback.
debuffs are official and happen between patch and version up.
more game should near the end of their iteration release have an "edition select" like AC/AC+R and USFIV
Embrace and give value through fan service and letting player choose between major balance change characters.
debuffs are official and happen between patch and version up.
more game should near the end of their iteration release have an "edition select" like AC/AC+R and USFIV
Embrace and give value through fan service and letting player choose between major balance change characters.
People were looking for options but she's pretty limited and has very specific follow-ups. She's not very combo-y. However, she does open up a fair bit on counter-hits, as she has a lot of counter-hit specific links that allow you to do much more off a hit.
Yeah, she seems to be very much based around frame traps which could lead to an interesting approach to her gameplay.
Lostconfused
Member
I don't know, you people only seem to get worked up about that stream and capcom pro talk. But yeah I guess even the interest here has waned.
I guess she has to rely on her throw to scare them into doing stuff? But how good is her throw really.
Throws don't seem nearly as good in this game.
nobody's actually discussed NLBC in forever I thought.
I haven't seen any talk of it for a while and I've been forgetting that we actually have weeklies lately.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
The beta is for netcode and online. That's the intended purpose. Each beta has been on an old build.
DryEyeRelief
Member
『Inaba Resident』;185214353 said:
That's the biggest joke. People complaining about a character that's probably already different.
Lostconfused
Member
How do you know that?
On the surface level they seem entirely the same. The decisions behind the scheduling and deployment don't necessarily have anything to do with how far they are from being content complete or whatever arbitrary metric is useful for measuring anything here.
There could be any number of reasons as to how and why they operate on those schedules, ranging from stability of the builds, which staff are available to respond to any issues that might arise, to their planned marketing and release schedule.
Because these are server tests, not play tests.
Lostconfused
Member
Clearly not when they were perfectly willing to keep it up when their servers were incapable of doing anything. Or put it up at random times without advertising it because that wouldn't generate a peak load on them. Or don't leave them up for longer than a few days to see what load over time does to them.
Random stress tests to test something before a mass influx of users means it's not a server test?
Putting something up to appease the public during an advertised beta period when something goes wrong means it's not a server test?
I know I'm a little leery of the direction SF5 has been going in, but that's mainly due to me expecting Capcom to Capcpom the release somehow and that games this far in development don't change much this close to release. However, I can see that there are a number of reasons why they would approach the beta changes the way they are (as people have pointed out in this thread earlier) and we don't have full insight into where they want to go with the game and what they are really testing. Furthermore, the sort of things we are worried about are also the sort of things that can be tuned and adjusted relatively quickly. I wouldn't spaz out over the game itself until the launch happens.
Although I do think doing a $60 release for the game and trying to go full e-sports is not going to work as well as they hope. Maybe they have a plan down the road to do a reduced cost package or a F2P release or something, though.
Although I do think doing a $60 release for the game and trying to go full e-sports is not going to work as well as they hope. Maybe they have a plan down the road to do a reduced cost package or a F2P release or something, though.
Lostconfused
Member
Are they exclusively server tests?
From everything I've seen, server and netcode tests yes. Implementation of various systems (releasing new characters etc) to see how they function on a wide scale audience and so on.
These tests aren't so joe sixpack can tell capcom what's overpowered or needs to be improved in ryu's fireball game.
Lostconfused
Member
This is silly, you are saying that it could potentially be a test for everything except specifically not character balance.
Not to mention it would be stupid. With a commitment to roll out a bunch of new characters periodically post game release, this is exactly the situation they will run into again. Frequent updates, showing/promoting unfinished characters early followed by various reactions after they actually add the content to the whatever the current live release yet.
What I'm trying to say, poorly, is that the reason the image was stupid was not because someone was "dumb enough to think something in development can have nerfs" but rather, of course you can have wild swings of buffs and nerfs in development and it'd be crazy if you didn't, and the powerpoint slide was talking about massive nerfs post-release. So the way the response was worded came off to me as "stop talking about nerfs," but I get how you guys are seeing it now.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
I don't think this thread, Canada Cup and NLBC are good representatives of the MK scene. The game is doing very well.
Shouta
Member
Great, I come back to a ton of posts and I don't have time to respond to it all, lol. Let me respond to it all with this
If folks are allowed to criticize then tailor your complaints so that you don't shutdown criticism as a byproduct.
If they weren't testing the character balance in addition to the servers and content delivery system, then there's no need for them to include different versions of the characters in each of the builds.
They've also brought it to events for folks to try out and those have different versions of characters. Those situations aren't testing server load or their CDS.
If folks are allowed to criticize then tailor your complaints so that you don't shutdown criticism as a byproduct.
If they weren't testing the character balance in addition to the servers and content delivery system, then there's no need for them to include different versions of the characters in each of the builds.
They've also brought it to events for folks to try out and those have different versions of characters. Those situations aren't testing server load or their CDS.
Holy Order Sol
Member
I think people know that when they post that picture and just go for the easy zinger/ lololo why tf you lyin moment
MiniBossBattle
Member
Yeah, things change in development. Also, I need to try to remember not try to change people's minds about how they feel about the game industry.
call_kotaku
Member
so what people basically want is for Capcom to make everyone terrible in the first version, but unlike deejay they get new buffs every patch so everyone can feel their character getting stronger
it's silly to complain about balance decisions in a game that hasn't even seen any serious competition or anything close to a final build, or compare that game's complexity to the fourth retail release of a 7 year old game
it's silly to complain about balance decisions in a game that hasn't even seen any serious competition or anything close to a final build, or compare that game's complexity to the fourth retail release of a 7 year old game
It'd be very bizarre to rollback system changes for the sake of a stress test with concurrently running code for the netcode.
I never said anything about the versions brought to events either, I'm strictly talking about stress tests and betas.
I think the date was announced months ago.
Shouta
Member
Character changes aren't system changes though especially if it's just value changes and not messing with hitboxes & hurtboxes. But then again, that would be assuming they were doing it in a way that didn't force them to do a ton of work to test different things. That's asking a lot of JP developers in general...
Ah, sorry. I was quickly reading through the posts. All I see was "These tests" and thought it was for all of this pre-release stuff.
CountBlack
Member
LOOKS LIKE IM DROPPING SF4 FOR SMASH
CLOUD IS EVERYTHING
PEACE
CLOUD IS EVERYTHING
PEACE
He ain't no Wonder Red.
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