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Shouta

Shouta

Member
CountBlackule said:
Yang and Cammy both had their damage lowered and deserved it. High mixup/oki characters should have low damage, but.. I don't necessarily think they do Deejay damage.

Yang surprisingly does more damage off his basic bnb's. (cr.lk,lk,lk heavy rekka - 180dmg).

Blanka/Sim I can agree with doing less damage. I don't mess with Blanka at all so I can't really get into that.

The damage Adon was getting off of just jaguar kicks was stupid and needed to be toned down. His best poke (and one of the best normals in the game) st.HK does 120dmg.. fam that's like a Deejay Bnb right there. 120 damage for a heavy kick that's only -3 on block. what a time to be alive. 2 hits too smfh

Bison's damage is overall mediocre, he does get more damage off his specials though. Combo wise it might be a tie. Bison gets a better advantage off the knockdown with PC though.

Sagat's still does kitten uppercuts I agree.

Ryu does great damage, just not a lot of opportunities to get them off. Don't agree there.

Don't agree with Ken either. His BnB's ending with heavy SRK do 170+. And if they're standing you can go for heavy/ex tatsu for the same/more damage.
Click to expand...

Those characters other than Dhalsim also have more opportunities for damage either through better conversions or opening folks up.

In addendum:

Dictator damage is overall mediocre but he has better buttons and the ability to pressure folks better than Deejay.

Blanka is pretty low damage but his single hit stuff like electricity is decent and he has way better tools to pester and open folks up. Even the best players can eat a hop mix-up sometimes, lol.

Sagat has high damage versions especially with U1. Same with Ryu. Ken is a little worse in that respect but Ken also has Kara-throw which Dee Jay doesn't.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Marz said:
You can do 200+ with cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp, hk sobat its not even hard.
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I wasn't adding in cr.MP because you started with Chun li's BnB being cr.LK x3, when she can do cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.MK for more damage. Same with Bison, you can end his BnB with a cr.MK to do more damage. I was just going off light -> special because that's what you started with. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
G

gutabo

Member
Shouta said:
Those characters other than Dhalsim also have more opportunities for damage either through better conversions or opening folks up.
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This x1000. Doesn't matter if you have high damage if you can't open people up. Are we seriously arguing here over how crappy Dee Jay might not be? He's very low tier.

Shouta said:
Blanka is pretty low damage but his single hit stuff like electricity is decent and he has way better tools to pester and open folks up. Even the best players can eat a hop mix-up sometimes, lol.
Click to expand...

Blanka also has a great focus attack(like bison/chun/vega) with good range, that means he can do stuff like crouching fierce into red focus crumple into U2 without having to be standing right next to the opponent.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Marz said:
Deejay is good
Click to expand...

c8kvzh1.png


WOAT SF4 character, with the exception of Vanilla Dan/Vega
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
Marz, your problem is that you're thinking about damage in strict terms of combos and not in general situations. Bison has more opportunities to deal damage besides "low" damage combos thanks to his great pokes, amazing walkspeed, and other normals which lead into other things. Same with Chun, Vega, and Ryu. DJ has none of that, except arguably his walkspeed. And it's even worse since he's a charge character who doesn't have nearly as many good pokes as Chun, Blanka, or Vega.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
direct_quote said:
But new characters bring in the short time relevance again.. USF4 definitely gave SF4 a boost in relevance..
Click to expand...

I'm not saying new characters shouldn't be added. I'm saying there shouldn't be THAT many characters added. Characters like Evil Ryu and Oni and Decapra? Why? Keep the lineup nice and lean. If I were Capcom I'd have the total for SFV to be 28.
 
D

DunpealD

Member
CountBlackule said:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2010/may/06/dee-jays-frame-data-super-street-fighter-4/
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4p3BHtGeFr2a1ZPSlhOZFYxVVk&usp=drive_web
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Ultra_Street_Fighter_IV/Deejay
USF4 bits app as well

I wonder which sites might be more credible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...

Framedata is "wrong" on srk. It's not recovery but total amount of animation. If you look at recovery and total frames being the same number you will notice that it's impossible.

You guys should try to become a Deejay army for a while with all that talk about him.
 
D

direct_quote

Member
DunpealD said:
Framedata is "wrong" on srk. It's not recovery but total amount of animation. If you look at recovery and total frames being the same number you will notice that it's impossible.

You guys should try to become a Deejay army for a while with all that talk about him.
Click to expand...
Combofiend knew how good DeeJay was all along hence why DeeJay never got any buffs. Yun on the other hand had trouble getting in so he got the buffs he needed.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
I'm in top 3 at RitT5
we're streaming after everything, so not for many hours
pls send me your spirit! I'll post stream link when i have it.
 
M

Marz

Member
Professor Beef said:
Marz, your problem is that you're thinking about damage in strict terms of combos and not in general situations. Bison has more opportunities to deal damage besides "low" damage combos thanks to his great pokes, amazing walkspeed, and other normals which lead into other things. Same with Chun, Vega, and Ryu. DJ has none of that, except arguably his walkspeed. And it's even worse since he's a charge character who doesn't have nearly as many good pokes as Chun, Blanka, or Vega.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that. Your problem is you're not looking at the whole picture. Deejay can actually anti air you, ex upkicks is 180, thats damage that Bison, Vega, and Chun just simply don't have access to and a lot of damage every match that gets left on the table. It evens out.

So yea Deejay has bad buttons, but he has the ability to score damage in other ways.

And im not saying Deejay is good, just that the "Deejay is bad" meme is hyperbole

Edit: although its easy to see where it comes from if even people that play the character are adding imaginary 10 frames of recovery to moves lmao
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
http://twitch.tv/sscfn

I believe this is the stream we will be on.
NYCVF's harpooneer aka the best commentator in vf will be on the mic.

winners finals is og23 (Vanessa) vs teevo (Sarah), both from Toronto. im chilling in losers to try and pick off whoever loses that set. teevo sent me to losers 3-2. i am still playing lau although if im feeling like a fucking idiot I'll play jean.


brackets:
http://challonge.com/rumble5vf5
 
V

vulva

Member
Tripon said:
Dan, Hakan, E Honda off the top of my head.
Click to expand...

No way Hakan is worse, Hakan's actually a pretty good character imo. Honda's bad matchups are worse but I feel like Honda can work decently as a pocket character to deal with certain matchups. I can't think of a single match where I'd pick Deejay as a backup unless I was like a T Hawk player against Blanka and would take any matchup over that.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
vulva said:
No way Hakan is worse, Hakan's actually a pretty good character imo. Honda's bad matchups are worse but I feel like Honda can work decently as a pocket character to deal with certain matchups. I can't think of a single match where I'd pick Deejay as a backup unless I was like a T Hawk player against Blanka and would take any matchup over that.
Click to expand...

Funny part is that Deejay is a worse match-up than Blanka for T.Hawk, IMO. I talked with Kitasenju DJ about it and as I recall, he said that Hawk is probably Deejay's best match-up.
 
D

DunpealD

Member
direct_quote said:
Combofiend knew how good DeeJay was all along hence why DeeJay never got any buffs. Yun on the other hand had trouble getting in so he got the buffs he needed.
Click to expand...

Maybe Capcom got some kind of internal Deejay bot that destroys all the other characters or at least turns every matchup into 5-5 like Ultradavids Sagat vs. Zangief. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
C

Clonedbaby

Banned
Dee Jay is probably the most average character in the entire SFIV cast. He has quick normals, but they don't have good distance for poking besides his standing heavy kick. He has okay jumping normals. He has fireballs, which are good for blockstrings and zoning, but they aren't nearly as fast and large as Guile's.

His anti air special is terrible compared to what other characters have as normals. His ground specials are bad. His crouching medium kick is great for catching people off guard and scoring a knockdown, probably my favorite move in his arsenal.

Dee Jay has no unique gimmicks, or gimmicks in general. Combine that with really limited specials and okay normals, it isn't a mystery why Dee Jay is viewed as the worst character in the game.

Dan can do really decent damage at the cost of speed and range.
 
T

Tripon

Member
Shouta said:
Funny part is that Deejay is a worse match-up than Blanka for T.Hawk, IMO. I talked with Kitasenju DJ about it and as I recall, he said that Hawk is probably Deejay's best match-up.
Click to expand...

I think Vulva meant the other way where if a Thawk player has to play Blanka, he might want to play Dee Jay instead.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
Dan's got some good damage. I just spent the last 45 minutes or so winning some and losing some. Almost beat a good Rose, then his connection mysteriously dropped in round 3 when I got a major health lead.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Marz said:
I'm aware of that. Your problem is you're not looking at the whole picture. Deejay can actually anti air you, ex upkicks is 180, thats damage that Bison, Vega, and Chun just simply don't have access to and a lot of damage every match that gets left on the table. It evens out.

So yea Deejay has bad buttons, but he has the ability to score damage in other ways.

And im not saying Deejay is good, just that the "Deejay is bad" meme is hyperbole

Edit: although its easy to see where it comes from if even people that play the character are adding imaginary 10 frames of recovery to moves lmao
Click to expand...

I've said his AA special is one of his best attributes, but when players who actually know the matchup/character play against Deejay, they know not to jump. Ex upkicks finally hits low after asking for 5 years so Deejay finally has an invincible reversal that cost 1 bar.

Everyone in the thread agrees that Deejay is a bad character.. except for you. I don't think it's hyperbole at that point.

Only character I can maybe say he's better than is Dan, and that's a maybe.

Also, you still haven't shown me where you were getting your frame data from. If I was reading it wrong on the 4 sites that had it at 37f recovery then
kttcolimanny
. Still doesn't negate the fact that he has glaring negatives that could've/should've been fixed but instead is left in a crappy state.

I'm starting to think you just really don't know the Deejay matchup and that's why you don't think he's a bad character. Did a Deejay player gatekeep you from 4000pp?
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
I mean I've lost to DJ plenty of times because I didn't know the matchup, but I'm not gonna say he's good despite evidence and accounts from people who actually use him.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
That was the most bizarre account suicide I have seen on GAF. Then again the whole concept of account suicide is bizarre to me.

Seemed like a reasonable person based on the posts made here.
 
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