Karsticles
Member
Seems you're on salt overload right now.
Something something Street Fighter.
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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters
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The question is what makes you think you can deal with Basic stuff with a character you know less about than your fav
KidA Seven
Member
Didn't know Logan, ShadyK, and Kim123 started a podcast to discuss the FGC every week. Looks like they went over commentary for this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biHAAvkdE6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biHAAvkdE6k
You don't have to necessarily drop her, you can read the spoiler below if you want to know why you don't have to, although I can't guarantee you'll understand why until you "understand" the game from a subconscious level where it all makes sense. If you want to work on fundamentals, charge characters are great but they are really advanced since you have to think 3 to 4 steps ahead of your ahead and your charge is holding you back from moving. Have you tried out Ken, Akuma, Evil Ryu or Gouken?
You gotta go into detail on what the basic stuff is so we can help you out, also it'll help you recognize where you're lacking in terms of strategy. Poison's gameplan, while in neutral, is to chunk fireballs and since her recovery is so fast, she can do crouching medium/heavy punch (not sure which one is her anti air) that is possibly one of the best in the game. Other than that, punishing opponents with her crouching medium kick into her three rekkas is her basic combo. That's as basic as it gets and she is a really powerful character with just this strategy.
This. If you're planning on playing CF, just get CPEX now. The port will be a long wait and the game feels very similar.
If you really understand your character, it's going to transfer over to CF.
Edit: Guess I'll post my impressions of my last Round1 trip on this
DryEyeRelief
Member
did you see that doa thread?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I guess it's not basic stuff. I fought really good players tonight. A rank 3000 Gief and an awesome Gouken/Bison. It's the Bison that gets me angry. The Gief forced me to adapt and focus on pokes. I almost took him out but my controller decided to have a love affair with shitty shortcuts tonight. And it makes sense. I made it a battle for that Gief to get into my space.
But the Bison. BISON.
I think I'm on the right path, I'm just frustrated because I hate Bison so much. I can't do anything against that character. I may have to completely study that match up before hopping online again.
biosnake20
Member
Damn, haven't seen ShadyK since FGTV.
Karsticles
Member
The "stop changing lots of random crap for no reason" lesson?Glad they learned finallyDat lesson from gg
yes lol
it seems that almost everyone in that thread is a jerk regardless of side.
More CF impressions
Naoto. Really fun character now that I sat down and spent tons of time learning him. Like I've said before, much more technical than he appears. So many dashes involved. He's a fun character that just wants to hit people. My impressions of him at the moment strength-wise, he's ok. He has stuff like crossups and an overhead. Overhead's nothing extraordinary for him, it's a tool but you can't rely on it. Both j.B and j.C crossup and the former is better. Apparently I've heard that his 214A 28A is unblockable but whiffs on crouchers. Not a reliable tool to just open people up with, but it's a pretty neat option. I need to see how he develops but with how cheap the cast of BB can be, we'll see how far he goes. For all I know, he could have really good frame advantage on normals, but I can't tell without having a person helping me test it ot.
Hibiki. Super flashy looking, kind of boring to play for me. He's just pretty straight forward and simple. Lots of B normals than can chain back to each other (5BB 2BB 5BB) so I just see a lot of slashes and get reminded of Sho and Minazuki from Persona. Pretty good pressure and mixups, you can really mess with the opponent with a lot of his drives and specials. 214C creates a safe jump which is pretty good. His j.C hits to the left and right of him which is nice. I assume this stops any rolls out of the corner and you can OS to chase down remaining options midscreen. Obviously a cross up. What I see in vids though, his hurtbox kind of extends behind him while the hitbox of j.C doesn't look too vertical (mostly horizontal), so it has its weaknesses. I really like Seth in UNIEL but Naoto seems like a more interesting newcomer to me.
Izayoi. These buffs, she definitely should not have gotten on some of these. 236D is amazing, especially in OD. They're basically forced to eat a 50/50. Old version was good, but only if they never really moved. Air mist finers are so cool and replace Noir Edge. Can special cancel off of 6B if you want, but it looks like a great neutral tool. Normal mode for Izayoi is pretty much the same from what I can tell. Gain Art mode has changed from what I'm seeing. Still can't 5A 5C after Strike Fall like in CP, but she doesn't need it. You also can't Atraea after Strike Fall anymore. Another change is Astraea launches them way higher now. No more 2C afterwards since they can tech in time. GA 6C has also changed. Less untech time so I'm not sure if this has a purpose in combos anymore. Gatlings into 6A have been removed sadly, but that was a buff she didn't need. I still think she's a strong character, but I'm glad they removed some stuff with all the buffs they gave her.
Platinum, one of my characters I use almost every other game (CS2, CS EX, CP 1.1). I really like her CF version. Boomerang is a nice new item. Air Persia on air combos does a ground bounce so you can continue the combo and side swap if you need to. Low heart car allows you to combo afterwards in the corner. High heart car isn't a great mixup, not too bad for a midscreen knockdown. Seems like you can special cancel out of cat item which is nice. Keep in mind, that change and the air persia change, I don't know if this existed in CPEX. I didn't play Plat in that game, but I'm really happy with how she plays in this.
Played more Rachel as well. I really think neutral took a hit with the loss of pumpkin, but it mostly means we can't just be dumb and make it our turn when we want anymore lol. Lotus is such a good tool. Just need to make sure we have lotus on them without getting knocked down because then we're in trouble. It's funny that they ended up buffing George by removing cooldown but lotus oki is way better now. Ivy again is good as a corner ender on DP-less characters, but that also means you're sacrificing the chance to do lotus on them. I think Rachel's not wheelchair status at all, she's going to turn out decent if things progress at this rate. She's just a much simpler character regarding combos, but requires more thinking in other areas. She can't get awesome wind regen combos and set up all her oki in one go lol. Also I've heard that she gains wind in the air even when combo'ed. Small things like this will add up.
Carl's still weird for me in this version (but still really good and dumb). Not sure how long his combos can go at the moment and how much is worth it considering doll meter lol. Hard to do training mode with him since I can't do infinite doll meter in training mode. I could overdrive to regain doll meter but all of Nirvana's properties will affect the combo, so I'll have to wait regardless lol
Naoto. Really fun character now that I sat down and spent tons of time learning him. Like I've said before, much more technical than he appears. So many dashes involved. He's a fun character that just wants to hit people. My impressions of him at the moment strength-wise, he's ok. He has stuff like crossups and an overhead. Overhead's nothing extraordinary for him, it's a tool but you can't rely on it. Both j.B and j.C crossup and the former is better. Apparently I've heard that his 214A 28A is unblockable but whiffs on crouchers. Not a reliable tool to just open people up with, but it's a pretty neat option. I need to see how he develops but with how cheap the cast of BB can be, we'll see how far he goes. For all I know, he could have really good frame advantage on normals, but I can't tell without having a person helping me test it ot.
Hibiki. Super flashy looking, kind of boring to play for me. He's just pretty straight forward and simple. Lots of B normals than can chain back to each other (5BB 2BB 5BB) so I just see a lot of slashes and get reminded of Sho and Minazuki from Persona. Pretty good pressure and mixups, you can really mess with the opponent with a lot of his drives and specials. 214C creates a safe jump which is pretty good. His j.C hits to the left and right of him which is nice. I assume this stops any rolls out of the corner and you can OS to chase down remaining options midscreen. Obviously a cross up. What I see in vids though, his hurtbox kind of extends behind him while the hitbox of j.C doesn't look too vertical (mostly horizontal), so it has its weaknesses. I really like Seth in UNIEL but Naoto seems like a more interesting newcomer to me.
Izayoi. These buffs, she definitely should not have gotten on some of these. 236D is amazing, especially in OD. They're basically forced to eat a 50/50. Old version was good, but only if they never really moved. Air mist finers are so cool and replace Noir Edge. Can special cancel off of 6B if you want, but it looks like a great neutral tool. Normal mode for Izayoi is pretty much the same from what I can tell. Gain Art mode has changed from what I'm seeing. Still can't 5A 5C after Strike Fall like in CP, but she doesn't need it. You also can't Atraea after Strike Fall anymore. Another change is Astraea launches them way higher now. No more 2C afterwards since they can tech in time. GA 6C has also changed. Less untech time so I'm not sure if this has a purpose in combos anymore. Gatlings into 6A have been removed sadly, but that was a buff she didn't need. I still think she's a strong character, but I'm glad they removed some stuff with all the buffs they gave her.
Platinum, one of my characters I use almost every other game (CS2, CS EX, CP 1.1). I really like her CF version. Boomerang is a nice new item. Air Persia on air combos does a ground bounce so you can continue the combo and side swap if you need to. Low heart car allows you to combo afterwards in the corner. High heart car isn't a great mixup, not too bad for a midscreen knockdown. Seems like you can special cancel out of cat item which is nice. Keep in mind, that change and the air persia change, I don't know if this existed in CPEX. I didn't play Plat in that game, but I'm really happy with how she plays in this.
Played more Rachel as well. I really think neutral took a hit with the loss of pumpkin, but it mostly means we can't just be dumb and make it our turn when we want anymore lol. Lotus is such a good tool. Just need to make sure we have lotus on them without getting knocked down because then we're in trouble. It's funny that they ended up buffing George by removing cooldown but lotus oki is way better now. Ivy again is good as a corner ender on DP-less characters, but that also means you're sacrificing the chance to do lotus on them. I think Rachel's not wheelchair status at all, she's going to turn out decent if things progress at this rate. She's just a much simpler character regarding combos, but requires more thinking in other areas. She can't get awesome wind regen combos and set up all her oki in one go lol. Also I've heard that she gains wind in the air even when combo'ed. Small things like this will add up.
Carl's still weird for me in this version (but still really good and dumb). Not sure how long his combos can go at the moment and how much is worth it considering doll meter lol. Hard to do training mode with him since I can't do infinite doll meter in training mode. I could overdrive to regain doll meter but all of Nirvana's properties will affect the combo, so I'll have to wait regardless lol
Tularensis
Neo Member
Thanks for the heads up, I bought that shit as soon as I got home. I'm so glad I didn't pick up CPE earlier this week and spend the full $40, I knew it was eventually gonna be on sale.
Thank you
What...what the
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Bison has some of the best wake up options in the game and not enough people play the character so its hard to get experience in the matchup. He's an impregnable wall who can bring out scissor kicks for pressure (which he can be hit out of depending on spacing and which version he's doing) and psycho crusher on wakeup (you can punish this with certain characters since its minus on block, ex psycho crusher is a little more difficult). Not only that, he can go for a mixup and hit you from behind with his psycho crusher. Additionally, his walkspeed is possibly one of the fastest in the game, he can cover a lot of distance by walking and lame it out with his purple palm in the air (forgot the name of the move). This is pretty much why he's frustrating to play against, he's hard to crack open but when he is, his wakeup options are annoying to deal with and even if you do back off to prevent some shenanigans, he still has scissor kicks and one of the best normals in the game, his standing heavy kick. Thing covers such a ridiculous amount of distance. Best way to go upon this is to just zone him out with fireballs from a distance, when he wants to double knee press from a distance, backdash since it only goes as far as where you previously were when he did the special move and punish it when he lands since he has a lot of recovery from that. Smart Bison players catch on quick and wouldn't normally do knee presses to get in so zoning is the way to go on a higher level since he has no fireball game and no great ways to stop it unless you are really close for him to land an ex scissor kick. Then you rinse and repeat, its boring but one of the more successful methods of beating an average bison player. Here's some footage of one of the best Bison player's in America, even though he doesn't go out often, he's probably one of the few Bison player's that people know about: Link to video
Granted in this video, Bison is playing one of his worst matchups since Yun can pile on the pressure and punish Bison very easily. Also, he can be hit out of moves from there starting animations but that's a little too impractical unless you're at a high level to predict those moves.
Yaasssss, gewtegz and miech rose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR6FZ9mVwwQ
This one is still my favorite. I don't know if Orpheus lurks these threads anymore. I saw him/her post once like a year ago and no more.
Bison gives people a hard time who don't know how to RPS well in footsies. It's probably not your character, it's probably you're not good at enough at that approach vs him yet. Takes time and practice, it's also really hard to do online. Walking in and out of pixel ranges and reacting vs MK/HK is what you have to do, try doing that in several frames of delay consistently.
Also yeah Bison's wake up is ass.
Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Poison has a lot of advantage if he doesn't have meter. Making him walk forward and using walk back > fireball as a poke vs HK is one of the best RPS options in the game vs him, Guile does this really well too.
Also yeah Bison's wake up is ass.
Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Poison has a lot of advantage if he doesn't have meter. Making him walk forward and using walk back > fireball as a poke vs HK is one of the best RPS options in the game vs him, Guile does this really well too.
He has many wakeup options, but I dunno about some of the best. Ryu can OS any of his wakeup options lol
Delay wakeup helps him at least.
EX Scissor kicks is really damn good. His fake double knee press helps him escape if he wants to. Granted, I don't know if these are invincible to hits or grabs when starting up. Also with Ryu's, you can block and the person is forced to use 2 meters to make it safe and even then its minus 5 on block so its a free punish if the person knows which buttons to press for maximum damage. While with Bison on the otherhand just has to use one in either situation detailed above and has a higher chance of leaving that dangerous situation.
Edit:
I'm chewing off more than I can handle lol, I need to read the frame data and experiment with his specials and normals.
Sakura's normals are dumb, hur dur crouch medium kick and I can hit anyone ;_;. Also, she has great oki game Anne so probably in that matchup it would be rough on Bison.
EX Scissor has 13f of start up and loses its invuln on first active, it's also pretty minus and has a shit trajectory/hitbox. It's kinda butt. EX Psychi Crusher also has 14 frames of start up and a shit trajectory, but I think it has better invuln/hitbox so it's alright as a reversal. Still slow as balls.
Idk why you're talking about Sakura, what I'm saying works for everybody in the game and I mentioned how I'm pretty sure Poison deals with it. Her fireball and buttons put him in spots like that.
If it does turn out Poison shits on Bison btw, don't be all "ugh then I must suck extra hard then." She only beats him if you know how all the options shake out and use them well, so it means there's just more to learn.
I was talking in terms of punishing the stuff on block since smart Bison players won't just don't it from a distance where their start up frames can be punished and I'm kinda on the fence but kinda leaning on the idea that Sakura can punish the majority of Bison's stuff. Also, you are right Anne-senpai, scissor kick and psycho crusher are pretty bad, looking at the frame data. Although the devil's escape, is what I think its called, lets him escape pretty damn well. Looking at the other stuff, seems Bison fails when he gets pressured on wakeup so meaty fireballs from Poison should shut him up hard.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You have an advantage if he has no meter but it's small. Scissor kick and stomp will wreck you and pressure you into the corner. A good Bison player knows how to evade fb zoning. I can defeat his HK now. It's not a big deal to me now after practicing with Vulva, but that combined with the walk speed, stomp, wake up, scissors make for a hard match up. Poison does not "shit" on a good Bison.
My meaty fb often get him to not fuck with me on wake up but that's IF I get a knock down in the first.
When I fight a Bison I'm always on the defensive.
My meaty fb often get him to not fuck with me on wake up but that's IF I get a knock down in the first.
When I fight a Bison I'm always on the defensive.
I meant Ryu can OS options off of safe jump against Bison. Bison can't do anything about it since everything pretty much loses.
EX Psycho, teleports, EX stomps, etc. Ryu gets a punish off of each one.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Okay, when dealing with Bison scissor kicks, as Vulva and I practiced, I block and then counter with a standing mk. Going from what Yams-chan said, mk cancels to rekka?
Before I was just sad I lost so badly and soundly tonight to that Bison. But now I've got the fire of a burning God. Tomorrow I am going to the lab and I am going to study every one of that fucker's moves and every situation he threw me in so I can bop his clown dictator ass. Bison has me FURIOUS.
What's this about Dictator's scissor kicks can be defeated with a jab? I read that on srk (I know, I know).
Before I was just sad I lost so badly and soundly tonight to that Bison. But now I've got the fire of a burning God. Tomorrow I am going to the lab and I am going to study every one of that fucker's moves and every situation he threw me in so I can bop his clown dictator ass. Bison has me FURIOUS.
What's this about Dictator's scissor kicks can be defeated with a jab? I read that on srk (I know, I know).
Well I mean, I could easily be wrong, Idk. Looking around most Bison's feel it's fine, so probably am! Gotta ask questions though, how is he avoiding your fireball zoning? Also, why are you getting headstomped?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Things to work on:
1. Counters. Work more on cr mk xx fb and as Vulva brought up tonight, cr mk xx rekka. Also st mk xx rekka. When he hits HK, I drop that dude with a cr mk but my pressure stops there. Likewise when I counter with a standing mk. I need a way to be more offensive and turn the tide and not be his doll.
2. Find a way to fb zone and make him have to catch me like a mouse. I need to have him use up his meter too. I don't like leaving ex scissor to chance.
3. More anti air when he does that purple verticals got in for free every time he did that tonight. This will NOT be tolerated.
1. Counters. Work more on cr mk xx fb and as Vulva brought up tonight, cr mk xx rekka. Also st mk xx rekka. When he hits HK, I drop that dude with a cr mk but my pressure stops there. Likewise when I counter with a standing mk. I need a way to be more offensive and turn the tide and not be his doll.
2. Find a way to fb zone and make him have to catch me like a mouse. I need to have him use up his meter too. I don't like leaving ex scissor to chance.
3. More anti air when he does that purple verticals got in for free every time he did that tonight. This will NOT be tolerated.
God damn this is dank as fuck!
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This is the first time i have ever tried to go with match up research, planning against a foe. I feel if I crack this I will have ascended and leveled up. I need to beat this guy. I need it bad.
This fire can't be normal.
This fire can't be normal.
sf2fanatic
Member
Bison's scissors are all negative on block. LK scissor is safe, but it's still -1, so if their corner pressure is just scissor, scissor, scissor - you can jab them out of it.
All the other scissors are more punishable. If EX or HK scissors hits you twice on block, I think you get cr.mk xx rekka punish 100% of the time.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Best resources to research moves?
Like, frame data? The SRK wiki's got all that. There's an app, too.
Mostly, you'll find the answer to every problem you have in training mode. Record the crap that's giving you a problem and find an answer.
Protip when finding answers btw: You probably won't find a catch all answer or "solution", and an answer you find might not work all the time.
Fighting Scissor Kick for example, the fact that it is -x might not matter if you decide to mash jab/short after because he can be spaced far enough for that stuff to whiff. This is when you find all the RPS options and the risk/reward you want to play with them. Sometimes after blocking a far spaced Scissor Kick you might try sticking out a medium kick. If he was waiting on your whiff or doing a delay button to catch it, chances are you got out okay. Worst case scenario is he hits you, but without meter or you really needing that life it's not such a huge deal to get hit like that.
Fighting Scissor Kick for example, the fact that it is -x might not matter if you decide to mash jab/short after because he can be spaced far enough for that stuff to whiff. This is when you find all the RPS options and the risk/reward you want to play with them. Sometimes after blocking a far spaced Scissor Kick you might try sticking out a medium kick. If he was waiting on your whiff or doing a delay button to catch it, chances are you got out okay. Worst case scenario is he hits you, but without meter or you really needing that life it's not such a huge deal to get hit like that.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I just want to say I'm glad Anne post here.
Also thanks for the write ups rhap
Also thanks for the write ups rhap
Yeah. Few other posters are as informative.
Coffeeling
Member
Good lord that's
.
I have a hard time thinking about a game that's made me more salty than SF4. Chances are good that it's the best salt generator that I've played in my life.
His wakeup is good because you can't OS everything. A lot of what he can do can be shut down if you know what he's going to do. If you don't, good luck pinning him down.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I just bought a PS4 for 300 bucks via Amazon Black Friday.
What does this mean for me FGC-wise? I admit I wish it came with a fighting game rather than Unchawted. There's no reason I should have to buy SFIV ever again. I bought Super, Ultra on PS3 and Steam. I don't want to do it again.
What does this mean for me FGC-wise? I admit I wish it came with a fighting game rather than Unchawted. There's no reason I should have to buy SFIV ever again. I bought Super, Ultra on PS3 and Steam. I don't want to do it again.
You are actually in luck. USFIV is currently on sale for 15 bucks and comes with all costumes, sans the newest halloween one. In addition to that BBCPE and Xrd sign are on sale too at a heavily discounted price of 15 like USFIV. I think Divekick is on sale too.
So if you don't have any of them yet. Now is a good time to buy them, since there is even a 10% coupon in addition to the sale for further savings.
SquirrelSoup
Member
You're now ready for SF5 and Tekken 7~!
There's some stuff out on it already too. MKX, DoA5 LR, BBCPE, GG Xrd. All worth playing.
CountBlack
Member
definitive version tho
play Xrd?
Karsticles
Member
Don't buy SFIV again. 3 months to SFV.
Master Milk
Member
If you're not gonna play the game it comes with, you can sell it relatively easily on GAF to help finance buying GG and BB.
Buy BB and GG.
sixteen-bit
Member
Cop that 2nd encore.
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