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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters
- Thread starter "God's Beard!"
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Geminosity
Member
In the heart.
Sorry, didn't realize I didn't post the link. In jury service right now, so can't post it.
He says that in his Excellent Adventure videos too.
SquirrelSoup
Member
I guess? I feel like if you get the big juggle you straight up earned that by hitting with your big launcher, so time to cash in. Presumably it was riskier to throw out than some safe AA or BB or 2A so the reward should be bigger too. (Though yeah, Viola definitely went too far in the combo department for this game i guess. Not sure what they were thinking with her.)
I don't like mid 'combo' interaction like some games have which end up with this constant RPS cycle even after scoring a hit (KI, DoA, Smash come to mind). I'd rather have a 'clean' risk/reward assessment so to speak. But that's just a preference.
As to walking, yeah it's more limited. I love it! Just being able to walk around without risk the whole time invalidates too much of a character's moveset imo. I think stepping is great but i want folks to need a proper read for it. There has to be some risk involved and if you get it wrong you should get bopped. Again totally a preference thing though.
Oh yes. I hate his rotting guts, but amazing choice nonetheless.
Don't play with my heart man.
Yeah, pretty much this. Never got the point of air control if you're just going to let people get out of most things. Feels like a holdover from making Tekken. Like people expected juggles, so we'll just add launchers in, even though you don't get much from them.
Ugh @ playing SC4 again. I'd rather play Ballz.
Geminosity
Member
I'm a big fan of mid-combo interaction, partially because I'm not competitive at heart and enjoy fighting games more as a complex social interaction / dance but as you say, it's mostly a preference thing albeit the 'locked combo' side of things is generally better catered for at the moment
I always felt the strong movement gave horizontal attacks some meaning compared to the usually faster and further-reaching vertical attacks; I don't find them quite as vital to my repertoire in SCV outside of characters that rely on horizontals for most of their mids. The reductions to air control also reduce the need to add them into your combos to catch someone who's trying to bounce themselves to the sides and escape during your combo.
As you say, there's no right answer here, it's just that I feel that SCV doesn't reflect what the crowd I play with got into the series for, which is kind of a shame considering we were some of the select few in our region who'd actually set up SC events or even bother travelling to go to any we didn't set up
edit:
For me multiplayer games are about interactions so getting locked out always felt bad to me. I find it easier to get new players into something if they still feel like they can do something when I smack them about, while constantly losing control seems to be more offputting. Though this is obviously anecdotal.
I feel the reward of a combo for me is like serving in tennis: you're both still playing but the only person scoring is the combo-er, it's up to the victim to escape and re-establish neutral where they can then potentially have a chance to take control, SCV's locked combos are less like that and more like a bonus round for the combo-er where the opponent is basically out of the game and made an observer until something gets fluffed or the combo ends.
Obviously there should be enough room in the fighting genre for both mindsets to be catered to, but I feel there's a dearth of the type that appeal to my sensibilities. I've been tempted by Dead or Alive a few times due to this, though admittedly I feel mid-combo-holds should revert to neutral rather than outright punish and the game still feels a bit slippery/slidey to me compared to my beloved Soul Calibur
As for SC4... yeah... but it's easy to get our hands on and we found some people who already still played it. SC3 on PS2 is harder to scrap together and it's a busted mess of a game anyhoo. I guess we could've done SC2HD but for whatever reason that didn't happen. While I love the original SC I'm not sure how many folk would be willing to go that far back in the series and still actually take it seriously XD
I can't tell if you're genuine or mocking him
Mike Ross is one of the very few FGC entertainers I can stand, and I love him to death. He is quite silly a lot of the time though lol
Cindi, learn your frame data but don't get obsessed with it. A lot of players I run into rattle off the frame data for situations where it really does not matter.
I'm a big fan of mid-combo interaction, partially because I'm not competitive at heart and enjoy fighting games more as a complex social interaction / dance but as you say, it's mostly a preference thing albeit the 'locked combo' side of things is generally better catered for at the moment
I always felt the strong movement gave horizontal attacks some meaning compared to the usually faster and further-reaching vertical attacks; I don't find them quite as vital to my repertoire in SCV outside of characters that rely on horizontals for most of their mids. The reductions to air control also reduce the need to add them into your combos to catch someone who's trying to bounce themselves to the sides and escape during your combo.
As you say, there's no right answer here, it's just that I feel that SCV doesn't reflect what the crowd I play with got into the series for, which is kind of a shame considering we were some of the select few in our region who'd actually set up SC events or even bother travelling to go to any we didn't set up
That makes sense, and I understand what you mean. Since I enjoy 2D fighters, SC5 bringing in a lot of elements from the series I love made me enjoy it much more.
I wish I liked this version of Tao more :v
Geminosity
Member
Heh, again, the damage-conversion-combo aspect has kind of been creeping increasingly into the series since 2/3 so I know what you mean, but they really went full-on with it in 5. You can't escape most of the combos in it or, in viola's case especially, you can't even steer the combo to avoid yourself getting backed up against the arena edge or the like.
No worries, everyone has different tastes so it's good we can chat about it :3
I like 2D games as well, (I was hugely into Guilty Gear back in the XX days) but every now and then I kind of need a break and SC was my lil safe-house for that. SCV leaves me worried I'll have to look elsewhere for that fix. That said, for those who 2D is their favourite it makes sense that SCV would appeal more than previous entires in the series, to me at least
She looks like she didn't get anything new that looks super fun. :/
Geminosity
Member
As much as I love Rachel, I just don't think I could stop playing Platinum long enough to go back to her
CountBlack
Member
Cindi Mayweather
Member
How do I balance the two?
Same, he plays his personality well without ever being annoying about it like some others. Skisonic I'm looking at you, stop being so annoying.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Great avatar lmao
sixteen-bit
Member
Do they mention the Brazz stuff? Would you say he paved the way for YP?
Karsticles
Member
I'd love an in-depth description of her, and how she plays now. Especially how to properly use bats, and how you keep pressure up without pumpkin.
Every time you see some move or mixup that you have trouble dealing with the frame data probably has the answer. Also you should probably know your fastest specials and normals that you could use in a punish situation so that you can apply what you learned.
Professor Beef
Banned
The man
The myth
The Legend Mike Ross *bow*
He said that he doesn't bother memorizing frame data because it's too many numbers IIRC, so he just does moves that are safe (or that he thinks are safe) until someone can punish, and switches it up. That's legit how I like to play :mjcry:
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Really loving my ps4. Great alternative gaming options: Tearaway is so cute although in some ways pretentious, Life Is Strange demo was fantastic in its exploration of every day life. Really liking my purchase beyond my broken internet connection.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Duelling the KOF -14th season -KOF13CL
Great level of play with a lot of top plays, probably the biggest KOF tourney in Japan.
Most of the matches are dominated by a K'/Yuri/Chin player, his K' is awesome.
Duo Lon is definitely moving up the ranks, even some tier whore top players are putting him on their team now.
Great level of play with a lot of top plays, probably the biggest KOF tourney in Japan.
Most of the matches are dominated by a K'/Yuri/Chin player, his K' is awesome.
Duo Lon is definitely moving up the ranks, even some tier whore top players are putting him on their team now.
Wasnt Duo Lon always considered really good, he just doesnt have the access to the damage that the top have?
Fantastic point character imo.
MadKof put him on the map and some top players picked him up yeah but now I'm seeing people who like their Kim/Karate/Iori use him as well.
KouKou from Japan (one of the best, if not the best, Kim and Claw Iori players period) now often puts him instead of Kim or Karate. Even Tokido switched Karate with Duo Lon.
The best Duo Lon is still Tenga from Japan though imo, he always uses Duo Lon/Shen/Ash and plays them in any order (often putting Duo Lon or Ash on anchor). He owned the Korean players (including MadKof) so bad a couple of years back when they went to Japan.
SquirrelSoup
Member
MKX is going to have a new character revealed in a couple days.
http://gematsu.com/2015/11/mortal-kombat-x-character-reveal-set-game-awards-2015
http://gematsu.com/2015/11/mortal-kombat-x-character-reveal-set-game-awards-2015
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Kombat Pack 2 reveal at the Game Awards on Thursday!
sixteen-bit
Member
Will tune in to the Keighleys for that exclusive world premire scoop.
Neutral, you'll rely on zoning. You can't rush in anymore with just wind stocks and pumpkin. You'll be using lobelias, sword iris, and lotus in neutral. Ivy Blossom (the poison) is pretty weak in neutral, so that doesn't get much use. C Lobelia is like every version that's not CP 1.0/1.1. It reaches pretty much full screen without use of wind. Can't remember if this is a CF change, but you will recover before it lands, so you can sword iris or lotus it early on which is cool. When they're close, it's like always, use her really good air normals or 6A/6B.
Starting offense is either them screwing up and getting clipped on your zoning, you anti airing them, or you doing sword iris off of a attached lotus or pole. The recovery and startup of lotus really makes a huge difference on why its viable. When to use lotus in neutral is generally after a tossed lobelia. She has pretty good corner carry in this game, but not really great wind regen combos as CP since it involves air combos.
Like every game, wind regen has changed. In Extend it was awful. Normal gain on the first two stocks, takes forever on the last two. CF it's flipped and not too bad for the first two stocks tbh. Her zoning isn't as wind intensive and same goes for her midscreen combos, so you'll generally have wind available. Tempest Dahlia is actually a wind regen tool now. While you can't use it for combos now, using TD is basically like popping Overdrive, you get wind stocks fast. Also a new change to TD is the air version sending it at an angle. This is the one you want to use if it comes to it.
Corner, people are starting to find damage. I've noticed that lobelia got buffed in the corner. Seems that the hitbox returns after it bounces off the wall. So a lobelia can hit twice now, one going up and the other bouncing. This allows for new routes and getting out ivy blossom easier as well.
N-O tweeted a new route with 5B starter.
5B > 5CC > 6C > jC > C Lobelia 5B > 6A B Lobelia 9D 6A > Ivy 5CC > C Lobelia 9D 5CC > Frog > 3C 3C > Baden Baden Lily
Does 4360 damage, but even more because of poison. Damage potential is definitely going up now that people are doing 9D combos. Then you can end the combo with lotus or frog oki.
At first I was concerned about combos ending without a pole in the corner. It would've meant weaker BBL damage and weaker pressure but I was wrong. Lotus substitutes for pumpkin oki on beating DPs and doesn't require wind. Being able to detonate the lotus into Sword Iris helps pressure in case they blocked your initial mixup. Her corner BnBs off a good starter involve 2-3 lobelias which will give a decent damage BBL combo ender.
Overall she's looking strong to me. She doesn't have that great of wind regen combos as CP, but they're still good. They really changed this character for CF, but she still looks like a complete character which is great. If she still had pumpkin, I really think she would've been way too good.
When I create an RPS situation where a call out is going to happen on an option, don't tell me how the frame data says one thing when it wouldn't have mattered
It's hard to describe. I sit down with mid level SF players a lot and a situation breaks down in a way where frame data does matter, and they look at me and talk about frame data. Like with Sakura I'll do stuff that is - but I still have fast buttons and positioning so I go for a call out that's still in my favor by all logic but is still -. Then they look at me and tell me that I was minus and that shouldn't happen that way, and I'm like please it does not matter. A lot of players fall into this trap of learning all their numbers/combos/set ups and relying on those for answers without actually applying critical thinking to it. Don't be that girl, look at the situation, look at the numbers, then look back at the situation.
Edit: That sounds really mean and condescending when I read it back but it's a huge pet peeve of mine orz just use your brain when applying hard numbers.
MiniBossBattle
Member
I don't see/know of any. I really hope there will be some.
IrrelevantAlex
Member
Figure this is a good place to ask, anyone find good PS4 arcade stick sales going on?
Karsticles
Member
Also, if you really understand the numbers, it can help you do more unsafe things in good situations. For example, if you do something -2 on block, your opponent will think "A ha, I have the advantage, and I'll jab to start some offense". However, if you know your opponent knows, then you can do something like DP the offense, because it's guaranteed. Of course, then, if they learn that you're willing to DP, your -2 on block isn't as hindering, because you can continue your pressure even when you "shouldn't" be able to.When I create an RPS situation where a call out is going to happen on an option, don't tell me how the frame data says one thing when it wouldn't have mattered
It's hard to describe. I sit down with mid level SF players a lot and a situation breaks down in a way where frame data does matter, and they look at me and talk about frame data. Like with Sakura I'll do stuff that is - but I still have fast buttons and positioning so I go for a call out that's still in my favor by all logic but is still -. Then they look at me and tell me that I was minus and that shouldn't happen that way, and I'm like please it does not matter. A lot of players fall into this trap of learning all their numbers/combos/set ups and relying on those for answers without actually applying critical thinking to it. Don't be that girl, look at the situation, look at the numbers, then look back at the situation.
Edit: That sounds really mean and condescending when I read it back but it's a huge pet peeve of mine orz just use your brain when applying hard numbers.
In other words, frame data is mostly about learning which move is optimal AFTER you have already decided what you want to do. It'll help you know which move is the most invincible for your DP attempt, or what your fastest button for punishing is, which of the moves are best for ending a blockstring for being + at the end, etc. It doesn't replace mindgames, though. Mindgames come first.
Thank you for all of that. I'm glad she's looking good.
There was a deal for the HRAP4 Kai, $50 off. No clue about the specifics.
LOL, seriously? Maybe call Sony.
That's a special kind of L
BB doesn't have proximity normals?
You mean command normals? I don't think anyone in Blazblue has SF-style proximity normals. Pretty much everybody has a forward + A, forward + B, forward + C, and down-forward + C, though.
Is there really any point, though? I doubt they'd let me buy it for the old price. besides, I'm not in the US so I couldn't call them even if I wanted to.
Meh, I wasn't really that into buying it to tell the truth. I've been dancing around this issue for the past couple of days. I thought it would end tomorrow morning for me, not tonight. It's your talks the last few days that got me excited and was pushing me. Guess I'll wait for CF to launch now.
I try to do what I'm doing in the combo from a distance and the elbow animation doesn't play
I'm probably doing something wrong and it is command normals
SquirrelSoup
Member
Wanna play some BB right now? Dunno how the crossplay stuff works though. I'm on PS3. Don't think i can even see you online..
Learned the plus,minus and neutral part of frame data when i was just trying tot find out how fast my moves were coming out exactly.
Other than that i just Mike Ross it.
Make something cheap enough and people will try it.
Unless you change the price back to normal in the middle of them handing you the cash lol
Yep i am. I sent you some messages if you saw btw. Don't know if it's the PS4 crossplay stuff. Will be on in 10mins.
My friends think I'm really into frame data, but I feel like I only know the fair amount I at least should.
Most of my knowledge on a game's frame data is by losing to something and looking it up. I started doing that a lot more during Blazblue because of how crucial it was to IB certain things to punish (midstring or last hit). Also good to know what my characters fastest buttons are and which are great for pressure.
I didn't do any of this in SF4 days which is why I have no idea how to deal with the majority of moves in that game.
Most of my knowledge on a game's frame data is by losing to something and looking it up. I started doing that a lot more during Blazblue because of how crucial it was to IB certain things to punish (midstring or last hit). Also good to know what my characters fastest buttons are and which are great for pressure.
I didn't do any of this in SF4 days which is why I have no idea how to deal with the majority of moves in that game.
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