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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters
- Thread starter "God's Beard!"
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Phantasmal Repose
Member
That's pretty hype.
Gipsy Danger
Member
This has made me sad. I think SFV is pretty great but it's really the last SFIV major. Crazy stuff.
CountBlack
Member
Late but get the fuck out of here
CountBlack
Member
food talk already done b. you've missed your chance at slander
Lostconfused
Member
Need to know the name of that magazine so I can ignore everything else it rates.
I don't know why he's so hated, dude is a lot of fun. Thanks to the complainers he lost so many tools.
Oh I know what all is up. Most everybody is friends, it's just a bunch of small stuff that compounded up until now.
The major problem with side games is the skill variance here on those is astronomical. Like if you wanna play Persona, you have me and one other person, maybe a 3rd once every 6 months. The two of us that play often are so far ahead of that game that it will take you a year to catch up from scratch at best. There's nobody else to play, nobody of a lower skill level so you get rolled by Aigis and Aki forever. In UNI I have this problem of a new player trying to get into it, and it's frustrating when the only person you can play regularly is that far ahead. Same thing happened in BB, they even asked after two games of my Tao to switch to a sub and I was still rolling them. I can't exactly turn my fighting game self off without it looking extremely obvious and being pretty not fun for everybody lol
I've learned that is incredibly difficult to get new players to learn games when there is nobody of a similar skill level to get going with. These huge skill gaps are a massive problem with smaller games ;; the effect of getting face stomped by stuff way above your head is really hard on new players, and Idk how to fix it besides overloading education or having a good player population.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
ShadowSoldier89
Member
im mid level in persona, id play
Come to Nashville and play the guys who can't even do BnBs yet
Mid level players would be so nice.ShadowSoldier89
Member
in pittsburgh we have 4 people around the same skill level as me, I'd love to have some higher level to learn from, though I'm focusing on BB now. We have 1 or 2 good BB players, and a few mid level. My scene is mostly xrd and UNIELCome to Nashville and play the guys who can't even do BnBs yet
SolarPowered
Member
PC port incoming?
Geminosity
Member
Ooh! This is something I've been pondering for a good while now.
I like getting people into games of varying types but fighters can be a bit more challenging due to the ability gap you mention here but how do we go about fixing it?
My thoughts always leaned towards adding coop (so kind of like having a sidescrolling beatemup element) so that less experienced players can play side by side with the more advanced ones and pick up stuff as they go but I'm always curious what other ideas might be out there on how to tackle it :3
Admittedly games in the past do have the handicap option but I've never seen anyone ever use them or appreciate someone making use of them either (in many ways it's just rubbing in the difference in ability
)Ooh! This is something I've been pondering for a good while now.
I like getting people into games of varying types but fighters can be a bit more challenging due to the ability gap you mention here but how do we go about fixing it?
My thoughts always leaned towards adding coop (so kind of like having a sidescrolling beatemup element) so that less experienced players can play side by side with the more advanced ones and pick up stuff as they go but I'm always curious what other ideas might be out there on how to tackle it :3
Admittedly games in the past do have the handicap option but I've never seen anyone ever use them or appreciate someone making use of them either (in many ways it's just rubbing in the difference in ability
Dont need any silly ideas. Having netcode that works and an online mode that gives people a reason to play it helps a ton. It would be much less of an issue if you could use that between local sessions to fight other characters and player skill levels.
Japanese skill cap events and netplay working for them is my favorite stuff to know goes on.
Geminosity
Member
Don't UNIEL and Persona have playable online netcode though? :/
ShadowSoldier89
Member
blazblue was actually the gold standard for netplay back in the day. Things have changed since then though. P4A and BB still play well on netplay, same as they did back then. As always you need a very good connection to have a good experience.
Rollback netplay has become a thing though, I havent experienced it, but from everyone I know thats played games with it they preach the hell out of it
Japanese have a good experience playing netplay on ASW games because their small country always has close connections
DryEyeRelief
Member
This is why SF5 isn't going to kill SF4
Geminosity
Member
Hmmm... fair enough. I'm just not entirely convinced that netcode is the magic bullet that would really fix the skill gap.
UNI netcode is desyncing garbage. Persona is probably the most playable anime game online but it still falls apart past 3 bar. BBCP netcode is not good enough to support playing that game the way it actually plays online. It becomes a pretty miserable experience pretty fast.
A lot of those games have netcode that works on a small island with amazing internet though.
It doesnt erase a skill gap but it makes it easier finding people more your level to play. Its what made SF4 so easy to get into, despite the netcode being bad it was amazing for 2009 and you could always find several matches.
Juicebox_FGC
Member
It wont. What that helps is intermediate/advanced players who are looking for specific players/matchups etc. It helps a small portion of the community hone their pre-existing skills.
The only thing that will help the massive skill gap for beginners is having enough interest in the game to get better at it. Having enough other beginners to where they don't feel like live bait in a zombie movie is helpful, too.
Geminosity
Member
Heh, yeah, those two points do often tend to be the hurdle for me trying to get people into new fighters I find. That's why I considered coop a potential avenue to investigate as I've noticed in games with it, they provides fodder in the form of AI for the new players to beat up and experiment on, with the advantage of having me alongside to baby them if necessary, plus I can show them how to do certain stuff as we fight alongside one another, stepping back at times to let them test their mettle :3
I'm sure it can't be the only possibility to explore though...
One other idea I had was having games with a 'leon' style progression where you both start off with powerful options (say like old sagat) but have worse and worse picks or handicaps for each round you win. I guess it's like an inverted version of the teams in KoF with some of the tiering stuff from Capcom vs SNK
The idea with that is that newer players at least stand a chance of winning a round or two when you're down to the final weakest character(s).RockTurtle
Member
Chip = Capcom Cup Championship
Table = Asian players
Dog = American players
Table = Asian players
Dog = American players
Juicebox_FGC
Member
- AI to beat up on
- Making the winner weaker as you play
Sounds to me like that player wouldnt want to play 1v1 vs humans. Even in the 2nd case, the whole "getting better" aspect would be lost.
Again, they're not interested.
Smash 4-player free-for-all w/items forever
Curry-Hakase
Member
ShinMaruku
Member
This is key is having a large enough beginner pool and having the game be intiutive and fun that they can scale up. All it really needs is enough people and less bullshit to learn in the beginning and it becomes self sustaining.
Just ruthless b
I don't really know but it was funny tbh
Karsticles
Member
YES YES YES THANK YOU!
Thanks for these!
Geminosity
Member
Possibly. I'm just coming at it from the angle of providing a way of 'easing in' to try and build up people's confidence so they're more likely to stick around. It could be the wrong approach, I just feel like it's worked for me in some of the other games I've played. E.g. in Rakion I used to make a 'dojo' server where I'd advise newer players on tips, tricks and general play to bring them closer to my level, so I was curious if any of it could be translated away from a team vs team or deathmatch game into the 1v1 to help more people stick around :3
It could work in theory, but those kinds of things can very easily become crutches for people that don't really care that much about competing, they would still end up hitting a wall eventually.
True dat
Dem legs, lawd have mercy
Don't get me started.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
So, who's going to Capcom Cup this weekend?
Geminosity
Member
True... perhaps investigating what the walls people tend to hit might give me some more ideas :3 Overcoming those walls are often the biggest steps upwards in performance I find. My DDR got infinitely better when I realised I was relying too much on one leg and that I didn't need to return to the center of the mat when switching feet, for example. Or for a more fighting-game related one, cancelling into special moves was a fairly important step up for me in my very early guilty gear days
Shouta
Member
It's not a magic bullet but having good netcode allows players that are farther away to be able to play each other, hence increasing the viable playerbase.
Thanks for this! First time I've seen anything BBFC related. I don't know the new mechanics that were added, so I might be a little confused. At least most of it still looks familiar from CPEX, I think. Maybe Anne can help clarify some stuff.
This. There needs to be a way for the new people to not give up and then resort to SF or Marvel. ;P
notworksafe
Member
bv is going, so keep an eye out for him if you'll be there
SquirrelSoup
Member
Awesome! Thanks!
Geminosity
Member
True, I find it very easy to get people to play stuff like Speed runners, Samurai Gunn and Lethal League due to the low level of entry, though they obviously don't boil down to the same level as a dedicated 1v1 fighter in the long run sadly. I never lack for players for those games though when I start them up at a social on the laptop though.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You need a carrot.
You probably aren't telling them what they're doing wrong, how they can improve, or what they can improve on. You're probably just beating them one after the other and that's it.
I've lost fight after fight since starting back up. It hasn't deterred me because I have given myself a carrot on a stick. A sort of constant guide of improvement. Most people don't have that. So likely, you're probably just kicking their ass and they have no idea how to improve. Fighting game waters are thick and murky. You need a bit of light to make out whether you're going to walk into a trap or if the waters grow deeper. You could easily go the wrong way. Or concentrate on the wrong things and limit your progress and potential. Going at it alone is hard. You should be helping them.
1. Explain what their characters game plan is. Don't assume they already know. It takes months for it to click and if you're making that assumption, they may never know. If you explain it, it will give them drive to work on it. Carrot. Stick.
2. Tell them what they're doing wrong. People I play USFIV with? We critique each other constantly. "You could use more hazenshu, I should be backing up from you" "Kay, let's get more aggressive next match then." "How do I beat that standing HK?!" "Try cr MK." "You're not utilizing your fb timing. I don't feel pressured by your fb's. You realize you can buffer an fb and fire one out the second it lands on block, right? Shoot them out at different speeds to keep me guessing!" If you're not being a factor in their improvement, you're doing it wrong, I feel. You should be fostering an environment where it's beneficial for both of you, so you both get incrementally better fights.
3. Tell them what they're doing right, that way they continue in the right direction.
4. If they're having trouble why not just say "fuck fighting, let's go to training so I can help you with your fundamentals" and work on those in the lab? Dude on my friend list the other day saw how I was seeking to be better with my Chun. We went straight to the lab and we had an hour long training sesh. "Try this bnb combo." "Use these buttons for situations like that." "That's a great AA. Use it!" "Walk back and forth and try to catch my moves. I'm going to teach you footsies." You said you're fighting dudes that don't know bnb combos. Why aren't you TEACHING them bnb combos? After I was taught Chun bnb I started making my own which add my own spin. Teaching matters.
If you're fostering an environment where you think they'll get better just by sheer willpower and matches, then you're failing as an experienced player. As an experienced player you should be constantly offering tips and suggestions on how to improve to help them reach their potential so you can have a larger pool. But a lot of experienced players ain't into that.
If they're having trouble with the skill gap, guide them. Show them how much they've improved. Help them work on their fundamentals. Take them training mode to work on the basics of their character. Tell them what they're should be doing more and what they should be doing less. Be more proactive in your approach to newbies.
This is why I really want SFV on steam rather than ps4, but I'm stuck. Ps4 won't have chat like steam. Steam's community is amazing and being able to chat at any time helps EVERYONE improve to help them know what they're doing. Maybe use voice chat, I dunno. But I generally find most people who use voice in fighting games to be annoying.
Good thing about having mostly Smash player converted is that literally everyone starts on the same lvl in the new fighters. There is me with the 3D stuff and a bud but that is it. All starting UNIEL,BB,XRD,MKX At the same time. Same lvl means extra fun and real salt. We just got lucky like that but it means that the hill to climb is really big to get good at these games across the board.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
As cool as Nine is,
On a topic related not I'm glad I have the ability to adjust to the person I'm playing level and tweak that on the fly. Makes teaching or keeping them interested easier xD
she still fucked a cat
On a topic related not I'm glad I have the ability to adjust to the person I'm playing level and tweak that on the fly. Makes teaching or keeping them interested easier xD
He is so cool tho
RockTurtle
Member
i think in order for someone new to get hooked on fighting games they have to be in a down period where they don't play other games with instant gratification.
usually this comes in terms of multiplayer based games like MOBAS or shooters.
in fighting games, when you lose you have no one else to blame for your loss but your own self. you didnt do the right move, you dropped the combo, you should have blocked high instead of low.
in multiplayer games, your lack of skills can be overshadowed by team performance, or at the very least you can contribute with a lucky grenade for an instant KO on an enemy. in fighting games, you can't really get a lucky grenade so much as have to do a lucky sequence of hits.
usually this comes in terms of multiplayer based games like MOBAS or shooters.
in fighting games, when you lose you have no one else to blame for your loss but your own self. you didnt do the right move, you dropped the combo, you should have blocked high instead of low.
in multiplayer games, your lack of skills can be overshadowed by team performance, or at the very least you can contribute with a lucky grenade for an instant KO on an enemy. in fighting games, you can't really get a lucky grenade so much as have to do a lucky sequence of hits.
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