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Shouta

Shouta

Member
I don't think a solid argument could be made for players with multiple characters vs character specialists especially when the results swing back and forth so much.
 
A

Anne

Member
Shouta said:
I don't think a solid argument could be made for players with multiple characters vs character specialists especially when the results swing back and forth so much.
Click to expand...

A solid argument could be made for players that have the ability and mindset to at least practice with multiple characters. It's something I've been noticing over the last couple years, even the top anime players randomly have these high ranked pocket characters you never see on their cards. There's some extra skillset there that I see more often in Asia, dunno what to call it.
 
N

Nightii

Banned
Isn't Dong Hwan the more unique of the two Kim brothers? I main Jae Hoon and he feels much more like his father than Dong Hwan, especially with the amount of inherited moves.

And btw, who the hell is the mother of those two? You know, considering the fire/thunder powers.
 
MarkMan

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
Tripon said:
Markman is a troll.

CVma3H5UYAAStdl.jpg


https://twitter.com/MarkMan23/status/673739893965651968
Click to expand...

I don't see the troll in the post!
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Nightii said:
Isn't Dong Hwan the more unique of the two Kim brothers? I main Jae Hoon and he feels much more like his father than Dong Hwan, especially with the amount of inherited moves.

And btw, who the hell is the mother of those two? You know, considering the fire/thunder powers.
Click to expand...

Yeah Dong Hwan's are the more unique, although his stomp attack was used by Kim in a few games.
The fire/thunder thing is more of a trait to that character.
 
N

Nightii

Banned
Speaking of Rock, I remember reading that he knows Geese's moves because he does them "instinctively" and going ...what? what kind of explanation is that!? How do you instinctively pull off a Deadly Rave? lol
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
Anne said:
A solid argument could be made for players that have the ability and mindset to at least practice with multiple characters. It's something I've been noticing over the last couple years, even the top anime players randomly have these high ranked pocket characters you never see on their cards. There's some extra skillset there that I see more often in Asia, dunno what to call it.
Click to expand...

I think I started realizing that I should start doing this since BBCP. I'm grateful that I did.
Everything about the game just gets easier to grasp afterwards, and it's helped me as a player.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Anne said:
A solid argument could be made for players that have the ability and mindset to at least practice with multiple characters. It's something I've been noticing over the last couple years, even the top anime players randomly have these high ranked pocket characters you never see on their cards. There's some extra skillset there that I see more often in Asia, dunno what to call it.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's really a skill set. If anything, they probably understand how they tick in regards to learning and have figured out how to maximize their time. That's something anyone can do with some introspection and practice. Japanese players also grind a ton and reflect on their own play pretty often. Dogura did that a lot when when he was learning Sin. He played a ridiculous amount and often reflected on his twitter about stuff. Nemo was the same when Rolento was released and would often type out what he was thinking in regards to the character and his findings.
 
A

Anne

Member
Shouta said:
I don't think it's really a skill set. If anything, they probably understand how they tick in regards to learning and have figured out how to maximize their time. That's something anyone can do with some introspection and practice. Japanese players also grind a ton and reflect on their own play pretty often. Dogura did that a lot when when he was learning Sin. He played a ridiculous amount and often reflected on his twitter about stuff. Nemo was the same when Rolento was released and would often type out what he was thinking in regards to the character and his findings.
Click to expand...

That ability to practice and learn like that is the skill set I'm talking about then. I just don't see it that often over here. Maybe our priorities are different? Idk, you'd know better about the play habits of the Japanese than me. I do know the Persona players I talked to only played Persona and played for several hours a day and practiced different characters and aspects of the game. I don't think I see Americans doing that as often or constantly while still making good character choices too :T
 
N

Nightii

Banned
Tizoc said:
Eh it's martial arts mumbo jumbo :p
Click to expand...
More like genetics mumbo jumbo.

Anyway, I kinda wish Rock was less of a Terry/Geese mix and played even more like his pop. I love Geese's gameplay, but the boss character stigma won't ever leave Mexico lol.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
The cool thing about Garou is how charge moves are 1 second long, unlike Capcom games where you need to hold for like 2 seconds.
And thanks to the recovery on Kain's moves it doesn't make his abilities crazy spammable etc.
 
M

Mizerman

Member
Nightii said:
Speaking of Rock, I remember reading that he knows Geese's moves because he does them "instinctively" and going ...what? what kind of explanation is that!? How do you instinctively pull off a Deadly Rave? lol
Click to expand...

Eh. It's a common staple when a child inherits techniques from their parents despite not knowing them well or being dead. Or hating them, lol.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
Did any of this work for Xiaohai or Ryan Hart? Is your opinion of Justin so high that you think that he's entitled to have greater success than Gamerbee, who srarted playing Elena last year?
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There's no one answer. Players are different and have different issues and we're generalizing when we say America has made bad choices at character select.

For Ryan Hart, I think he's a man without a country. He's tried to counter-pick his way through brackets, but he loses match-ups like Dhalsim vs Yun because his characters aren't advanced enough to justify that kind of play. He, like so many others, would be better off playing nothing but Evil Ryu.

For a guy like PR Balrog, I think he's needed to switch for real. Before he got his job he grinded for hours a day to keep pace with top Japanese players. His problem is running a bracket that has him fighting disadvantageous match-ups every second round. Good luck fighting Seth, Evil Ryu, Akuma, etc in top-8 with nothing but Balrog. There's a reason he can beat Kazunoku, because that's one of the few match-ups in his characters favor.

For Justin, I think it's about his unwillingness to grind. His Elena didn't work immediately so he dropped her. His Rose lost a match against Momochi by one crouch strong? Welp, better play Rufus for the next seven majors. New Rufus armor cancel throw? Well, couldn't master it in 15 minutes so he'll never adapt it. I do think he would have comparable success to Gamerbee if he was willing to put in the work that Bee has, for as long as Bee has. I think Justin is the more talented player and Elena's design fits his playstyle better. Doesn't really matter when you don't put the work in.

It's funny to name drop bonchan when he's just as guilty of being character complacent as any American player.
Click to expand...

And it's hurt him in the past.

I would argue Sagat is high-tier right now and fights a lot of relevant characters, too.

You have the US commentators using character selection as a scapegoat, and then I watch Daigo's evil ryu lose to japanese rufus players.
Click to expand...

That's a regular occurrence, I'm sure.

Like I said, there's no one answer. Nobody is going to win majors with Rufus or Guile against a bracket of top internationals playing Yun, Seth, Evil Ryu, Akuma, etc.

Why do you think Justin beats Xian's Gen and Gamerbee's Adon, but loses hard to players who are inarguably comparable to Xian and Gamerbee?

I don't like that Xian got third place. He would have won if he dropped shitty gen and stuck with evil ryu. everyone should pick evil ryu and elena. and yun, because kazunoko won with that character.
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Xian gets his ass handed to him by every Evil Ryu player specifically because his character suffers against that. He beat Daigo last year because he was willing to grind out a counter. Work ethic and character selection is important, Xian has both. Had he exclusively run Gen these last two years, I don't think he would have made it as far as he has. We saw Poison and Sim from him at CapCup for a reason.
 
C

Coda

Member
I can't wait for V to drop and no one will be counter picking for a while. Instead people will just play the characters they like playing as.

It was nice to see however how little counter picking actually happened at Capcom Cup. Most of the players just stuck with their main for the most part.
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
Tizoc said:
The cool thing about Garou is how charge moves are 1 second long, unlike Capcom games where you need to hold for like 2 seconds.
And thanks to the recovery on Kain's moves it doesn't make his abilities crazy spammable etc.
Click to expand...

Actually, charge times vary by game and by character. Some ST charge times can be 70f long even, 3S has about 40, IIRC. SF4 ranges from 40 to 55 or so. KOF13 charge times are 30f. Don't know about Garou.
 
MarkMan

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
Sorcerer Supreme said:
Why does this even matter when MadCatz doesn't even make their own buttons or joysticks?
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It shows what player preference is prior into going into the tournament? It really does matter because going into what is possibly the biggest tournament of your life (payout wise), you need to choose something you want to RELY on.

There are a lot of things (parts aside) with arcade sticks that would build/help preferences for any player out there. Aside from Daigo, none of the aforementioned players in that list were forced to use a Mad Catz product. They picked them because they felt they were the best tools (in their preference) for them to perform.

EDIT: Also, Keoma asked us the night before the tournament for a stick. He could have used/borrowed any other stick, but he specifically wanted a Mad Catz one.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Gamerbee did pretty well switching to Elena, I don't see how that worked against him.

Xian also did pretty well adding Poison/Elena to his arsenal. Just because he didn't use Elena much at Capcom Cup doesn't mean he wasn't able to leverage that character to get the brackets that he did. Capcom Cup is just one tournament after all.

I think it's fine to not switch/have secondaries if your main is extremely well rounded in match ups and tools. Seth, Akuma and Evil Ryu are these types of characters. I would never say that Poongko or Dashio need to switch characters nor would I say that Daigo or Tokido should get secondaries. Hell Tokido has a well rounded strong character and he still counterpicks sometimes. Wouldn't be shocked if he actually had a pocket Elena.


Anyway what's done is done, USA forever free at SF4 and they will eternally hold that L in the game. No point in talking about player potential now, they either reached it or they didn't.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Dahbomb said:
Anyway what's done is done, USA forever free at SF4 and they will eternally hold that L in the game. No point in talking about player potential now, they either reached it or they didn't.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. You're right that it's about learning the lesson and adapting in SF5.

The "reset" factor of a new game will ensure that America is more competitive in the early days of SF5 than they've been in SF4 the last couple years. It's about making the right decisions and putting in hard work to make sure they STAY competitive.
 
T

Tularensis

Neo Member
Tizoc said:
The cool thing about Garou is how charge moves are 1 second long, unlike Capcom games where you need to hold for like 2 seconds.
And thanks to the recovery on Kain's moves it doesn't make his abilities crazy spammable etc.
Click to expand...

Kains B Flash kick (break) is SUPER spammable. Still beatable though.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Man I'm looking forward to V. Not only is the playing discovery period awesome, but it will be cool to see all the top players training up new characters.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Anyone have any tips with Super Street Fighter II Turbo? It's such a different game than IV despite whatever similarities. Many opponents on Fightcade, I struggle denting. I can beat some, but some just use me as a play thing.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Pizarro said:
Fightcade ST doesn't mess around, unless it's koreans picking Akuma and claw only.
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Yeah I love it.

SRK's wiki on it is fantastic btw.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo

Playing the game reminds me it's still probably my favorite fighting game due to nostalgia alone. Ultra SFIV is my game though.

I'm also getting good progress in Garou. It's pretty simplistic. Skills in 2d games really do carry over. I've gotten so much better in Garou in WEEKS due to now understanding the basic premise of 2d fighters.

KOF02 is HARD. Despite having less moves than SF (I think?) I have no IDEA how to get in or what the game plan is for ANY of these characters besides Terry and the old Fatal Fury gang. I wanna learn my girl Yuri. Game is tough and I should stick to arcade mode single player for the time being.
 
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