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ShinMaruku

Member
i dont quite get what you are talking about but i think juri has pretty good comeback potential with feng shui engine. she cant change the momentum pretty quick, has got a ton of pressure and got huge damage off resets

Juri is just who I play but I can't use FSE so they have no right to tell me "You can come back" A better example is somebody playing DJ and SIm with a magic pixel against somebody who has gotten them down that far, they are fucked, they lost.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Riddle me this, why do you have some people linking some of the insane combacks of the extremely high level players using characters with stupid fucking damage and then telling other people "Never give up!"

There is a reason why you are in the hole, you sure as hell can't pull off the stun and have the meter to completely destroy the other player and that's assuming you have that character. Hell I played Juri and people told me "You can come back"

Bullshit, don't lie. :E

Why people use that? Do they honestly think Robert Capet the nervouse, combo dropping dpmashing born in the purple is really gonna pull off a comback?

Explain to me please
Yes?

Unless that beginner player is playing a against a world class player then yes they do have a chance. If they make a few guesses correct and the other player plays worse then comebacks occur.

Comebacks generally require user error from the other side as well, not just you playing godlike. People crack and make mistakes when they have everything to lose while someone who is going to lose anyway can win anyway.

Of course it depends on the game as well. In Tekken barring time restriction I can always make a comeback. Even against a much better player, I feel that there's a chance. In some 2D games you can't comeback like due to chip set ups or due to ridiculous situation (Captain Commando trying to come back against Storm/Sentinel/CapCom who knows how to play) but those situations are not that common and will be even less so in something like SFV.

It's a good mentality to have. Even if you most likely are not going to win you should try to win anyway and you might learn something about the opponent/game that way. It also improves your clutch muscle.
 

Skilletor

Member
Juri is just who I play but I can't use FSE so they have no right to tell me "You can come back" A better example is somebody playing DJ and SIm with a magic pixel against somebody who has gotten them down that far, they are fucked, they lost.

That mindset is what separates you from the people on stage.
 

LegatoB

Member
Juri is just who I play but I can't use FSE so they have no right to tell me "You can come back" A better example is somebody playing DJ and SIm with a magic pixel against somebody who has gotten them down that far, they are fucked, they lost.
So you need to go practice using FSE.
 
Riddle me this, why do you have some people linking some of the insane combacks of the extremely high level players using characters with stupid fucking damage and then telling other people "Never give up!"

There is a reason why you are in the hole, you sure as hell can't pull off the stun and have the meter to completely destroy the other player and that's assuming you have that character. Hell I played Juri and people told me "You can come back"

Bullshit, don't lie. :E

Why people use that? Do they honestly think Robert Capet the nervouse, combo dropping dpmashing born in the purple is really gonna pull off a comback?

Explain to me please
There are tons of examples of this happening with low damage characters. Ever seen the JWong Cyclops comeback?

I only give up when I'm just plain tired of playing. I have made many comebacks, and I have been enraged by many comebacks made against me. :p Especially in Marvel...

It's weird to call an intentionally broken game broken?
Also I doubt things like tac infinites are intentional
Totally agreed on the TAC infinites, but the game has been called broken long before those were discovered.

It is inappropriate to apply the word broken to things that are working as intended.
 

Dahbomb

Member
It's weird to call an intentionally broken game broken?
Also I doubt things like tac infinites are intentional
Of course they are not lol. Game is supposed to have a system to prevent infinites.

I don't know why Karsticles said that, Marvel has a lot of clearly unintentional broken stuff... stuff that would get patched with the swiftness in today's gaming world.

Viper/Firebrand unblockables
Install hyper buffs stacking multiplicatively with XF (ie. Dark Vergil)
Characters having pseudo infinites or even actual infinites without TAC (Spencer/Skrull infinites, Spider Man/Stage loops)
Pope select
DHCing into a grab hyper sets up a guard break on incoming (She Hulk/Spider Man)
Bizarre X factor interactions where characters lose hit boxes on their moves
Everything related to Zero (Buster creating an infinitely durable beam of Lightning that leads into a soft knockdown from full screen)
Foot Dive having a starting frame that covers his entire body and thus you can get clipped by Foot Dive even if you are Helm Breaking him from above.
Vergil and Wesker hypers randomly crossing you up
etc.
 

Infinite

Member
And this is one of those days where the FG thread is at its low.
What you mean? This is far better than talking about what Chris G had for breakfast.

Of course they are not lol. Game is supposed to have a system to prevent infinites.

I don't know why Karsticles said that, Marvel has a lot of clearly unintentional broken stuff... stuff that would get patched with the swiftness in today's gaming world.

Viper/Firebrand unblockables
Install hyper buffs stacking multiplicatively with XF (ie. Dark Vergil)
Characters having pseudo infinites or even actual infinites without TAC (Spencer/Skrull infinites, Spider Man/Stage loops)
Pope select
DHCing into a grab hyper sets up a guard break on incoming (She Hulk/Spider Man)
Bizarre X factor interactions where characters lose hit boxes on their moves
Everything related to Zero (Buster creating an infinitely durable beam of Lightning that leads into a soft knockdown from full screen)
Foot Dive having a starting frame that covers his entire body and thus you can get clipped by Foot Dive even if you are Helm Breaking him from above.
Vergil and Wesker hypers randomly crossing you up
etc.

I got what Karst meant but yeah somethings in Marvel 3 work way better than intended and have heavy implications of the metagame as a result. Also Anne said marvel which includes marvel 2 and marvel 1 which are undeniably busted as fuck.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Yes?

Unless that beginner player is playing a against a world class player then yes they do have a chance. If they make a few guesses correct and the other player plays worse then comebacks occur.

Comebacks generally require user error from the other side as well, not just you playing godlike. People crack and make mistakes when they have everything to lose while someone who is going to lose anyway can win anyway.

Of course it depends on the game as well. In Tekken barring time restriction I can always make a comeback. Even against a much better player, I feel that there's a chance. In some 2D games you can't comeback like due to chip set ups or due to ridiculous situation (Captain Commando trying to come back against Storm/Sentinel/CapCom who knows how to play) but those situations are not that common and will be even less so in something like SFV.

It's a good mentality to have. Even if you most likely are not going to win you should try to win anyway and you might learn something about the opponent/game that way. It also improves your clutch muscle.
Goes without saying you should always give it a good shot, but I think it can be harmful if you give somebody false hope. There are so much things stacked against one and it will take either very good play or everything shifting to your favor, I am never one to look to luck. But I see your point
That mindset is what separates you from the people on stage.
Many things separate me from the people on stage, sometimes people have that mindset because they know they have the skills and tools to make that comeback. Some do not have them tools and all the mindset does is stop them from backsliding which is a positive.

So you need to go practice using FSE.
Need hell of a lot more work than just FSE, need footsies patience and many other things, which is why if somebody told me I can come back I laugh, I don't have the skill level for that yet.

And this is one of those days where the FG thread is at its low.
You call this a low, I call this a high, I see other view points and how people come to conclusions. Discussion can be very fruitful.

There are tons of examples of this happening with low damage characters. Ever seen the JWong Cyclops comeback?

I only give up when I'm just plain tired of playing. I have made many comebacks, and I have been enraged by many comebacks made against me. :p Especially in Marvel...
I think those comebacks are because of the level of the player. Unless Hugh Capet is a clutch god he will just end up looking like Louis Capet XVI.
 
Of course they are not lol. Game is supposed to have a system to prevent infinites.

I don't know why Karsticles said that, Marvel has a lot of clearly unintentional broken stuff... stuff that would get patched with the swiftness in today's gaming world.

Viper/Firebrand unblockables
Install hyper buffs stacking multiplicatively with XF (ie. Dark Vergil)
Characters having pseudo infinites or even actual infinites without TAC (Spencer/Skrull infinites, Spider Man/Stage loops)
Pope select
DHCing into a grab hyper sets up a guard break on incoming (She Hulk/Spider Man)
Bizarre X factor interactions where characters lose hit boxes on their moves
Everything related to Zero (Buster creating an infinitely durable beam of Lightning that leads into a soft knockdown from full screen)
Foot Dive having a starting frame that covers his entire body and thus you can get clipped by Foot Dive even if you are Helm Breaking him from above.
Vergil and Wesker hypers randomly crossing you up
etc.
Um, which of these are you certain are unintentional by the developers? Most are clearly intentional. Some, we can assume are intentional because they were known about in Vanilla, and still remain (multiplicative buff stacking).
 
Fighting games by design allow some comeback opportunities. Not giving up is just a necessary mind set to not break under pressure while looking for an opportunity to present it self.
 

Frantic

Member
"Never give up" are just good words to live by. Successful people generally don't have a self-defeating attitude.
Basically. For me, it's more of a mental thing than me actually believing I can come back no matter the odds. Even if there's only five seconds left and there is no actual possible way for me to win a fight due to health differences or whatever, I still fight like I have a chance - it's just a good mindset to have, and keeps me in the game for the next round.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
I amend it to never give up if you know you have the tools to do it. Poongko does it because he knows he can do it.

Perhaps I am not being clear on my view....
 

El Sloth

Banned
Twitch hired a Japanese player for their Japanese Twitch team:


As we continue to build up the Twitch presence in Japan, having people on staff who understand that country’s long-standing FGC community is an important part of our roadmap. To that end, prominent shoutcaster and former pro Street Fighter champ Ryutaro “Aru” Noda is joining our Partnerships team!

Aru joins a team of Street Fighter stalwarts including Victor “Victheslik” Denchartphan, former pro and current shoutcaster Mike “Mike Ross” Ross, and current pro GamerBee, to help create a global community around this legendary franchise. Building off our success with the 2015 Capcom Pro Tour–the largest global Street Fighter tournament to date, we’ll continue to foster growth of the FGC on Twitch with Aru being the perfect accelerator.

With many years under his belt as a shoutcaster and pro-gamer, Aru has become a popular personality in the Japanese gaming world. His ties with developers, publishers, players, media, and the broader gaming community will help us continue to deliver the best content.

Below is the Japanese translation.

Cool. Pretty weird the way they're so insistent on using strange nonsense terms like "shoutcaster" over "commentator" though.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Shoutcaster is old terminology for what were commentators, they are trying to use Esports slang to bring more esports people in. I find it stupid because there is very little overlap outside of some fighting games.
 

WarRock

Member
I dunno Shin. Yesterday I played 3S, me as Elena against Yun. I was trying to prove a point about throw mix ups, so after winning the first round I let my friend beat more than 50% of my life bar before attacking. He was using fucking YUN.

I won that shit, not before getting beat up to less 10% health, of course.

Yeah, keep trying, be wary of spacing and pray your game doesn't have chip kills :V
 

Grakl

Member

right, so you're self defeating. Are you researching what you can be doing? Each match are you actually thinking or just doing stuff?

hit the lab and think about your actions. People saying that you can come back aren't lying to you, they're assuming you're thinking throughout a round and making decisions based on what your opponent is doing. It's fine that you're ass, you can get better. You can make comebacks on players that are better than you.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Um, which of these are you certain are unintentional by the developers? Most are clearly intentional. Some, we can assume are intentional because they were known about in Vanilla, and still remain (multiplicative buff stacking).
Just because stuff remained from Vanilla doesn't mean that it was intentionally kept in ie. TAC infinites or Skrull infinite. Capcom had very little time to actually detect and change everything wrong with the game.

When I say stuff like "Firebrand unblockable" I don't mean that the actual move was unintended but rather its application was unintended. Pretty sure no one at Capcom intended for Firebrand to wipe your team off of one touch.

There are other random glitches in the game too like bouncing the assist character multiple times with the down TAC. Stuff that would've gotten fixed quick if it was detected in time.

Also word from MarlinPie is that he discovered the TAC infinites in the game early and then talked to Seth Killian about it. He got the impression that Seth knew about it but Capcom ran out of time before they could fix it. I wish I had that stream on me, it was pretty educational.
 

jerry1594

Member
I dunno Shin. Yesterday I played 3S, me as Elena against Yun. I was trying to prove a point about throw mix ups, so after winning the first round I let my friend beat more than 50% of my life bar before attacking. He was using fucking YUN.

I won that shit, not before getting beat up to less 10% health, of course.

Yeah, keep trying, be wary of spacing and pray your game doesn't have chip kills :V

A good Elena can be a Yun killer, it's one of the more troublesome matchups for him.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Speaking of Yun, I have too much fun fighting him with Ibuki because it's a game of bullshit vs fuckery and whoever wins deserves the win.
 
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