• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Dlent

Member
Tizoc said:
Who do I gotta blackmail to get the latest Melty Blood released on PC and consoles?
Click to expand...

...Hasn't the PC version been "released" for a long time now? I think the fan made netcode is better than any professional effort would have been at this point anyway.

As for consoles, you'd need some serious dirt on the people at Type-Moon. Apparently they're somewhat protective about their IPs these days, and have never been very keen on localizing them.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Zissou said:
You really think there are more defensive options in guilty gear? They feel kind of similar overall to me (when it comes to defending in the neutral game)
Click to expand...
Marvel definitely has less defensive options. The strength of pushblocking alone is probably better than most fighting games, though, so I would say defensive options are stronger. Xrd defensive options are all costly and/or high risk.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Karsticles said:
Marvel definitely has less defensive options. The strength of pushblocking alone is probably better than most fighting games, though, so I would say defensive options are stronger. Xrd defensive options are all costly and/or high risk.
Click to expand...

Marvel has pushblock (which is super strong, like you said), up-back being very strong, being able to OS throws with dashes (which can then be jump cancelled), hard tag being very good against certain kinds of pressure, alpha counters (team-dependent), invincible supers which can be made safe via DHC or x-factor, 2 frame move for one bar (snap), x-factor guard cancel, defensive assists (team-dependent), and probably more stuff not coming to mind right now. That's a lot of stuff! Of course, you have to weigh it against the offensive options available in the game- can't judge defensive options in a vacuum.

Xrd has burst, FD, instant block...?
 
D

Deps

Member
Xrds defensive options are definitely stronger, unfortunately the most important one requires a ton of practice (IB). Also everything gives you tons of meter, and with good use of IB, meter is plentiful. Watch FAB and his ability to get out of situation with a fat ass character. In Marvel you're fucked on incoming, if they make you block assists, etc.
 
M

Marz

Member
Zissou said:
You really think there are more defensive options in guilty gear? They feel kind of similar overall to me (when it comes to defending in the neutral game)
Click to expand...

Personally yea. I don't play either game at anything more than a low level though so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

But Xrd has IB, Burst, Dead Angle, Blitz, Faultless Defense, DPs, absence of assists means anti-airs are more viable etc.
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
WarRock said:
The Steam version of #R has netplay at all or it relies on the old fan patch? And if it does, is it any good?

Me and a friend from another state are thirsting for some GG.
Click to expand...

#R on Steam is the same as the disc release, so it relies on the fanmade netplay patch (which is good, helps that PC #R has really low native input delay). Means that the online population across all PC releases plays on the same infrastructure.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Deps said:
Xrds defensive options are definitely stronger, unfortunately the most important one requires a ton of practice (IB). Also everything gives you tons of meter, and with good use of IB, meter is plentiful. Watch FAB and his ability to get out of situation with a fat ass character. In Marvel you're fucked on incoming, if they make you block assists, etc.
Click to expand...

Marz said:
Personally yea. I don't play either game at anything more than a low level though so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

But Xrd has IB, Burst, Dead Angle, Blitz, Faultless Defense, DPs, absence of assists means anti-airs are more viable etc.
Click to expand...


I think you have to separate defense into 'neutral defense' and 'set play' defense. In marvel, I'd say neutral defense is pretty much defense in any non-incoming character situation while set play defense is incoming set-ups. GG set play defense usually is defending after a hard knockdown while neutral game defense is most other situations.

GG set play is more escapable because burst exists, where marvel gives you no such option. Marvel set play is also probably stronger in general just because you can craft multi-layered mix-ups that require an incoming character guess multiple times before they get to play (I think such things don't exist in GG as much? My GG knowledge is kinda trash). Of course, you have characters like Firebrand who can 300% a team with truly inescapable set-ups (though this is not limited to him).

When I say defensive options are stronger in marvel though, I'm thinking more neutral game defense. You have a lot of options defending in non-incoming situations, and while offense can be really oppressive if Magneto gets you blocking drones or something, accomplishing that is not easy to do. Set play may be ridiculous, but landing a hit that leads to that ridiculous set play is a lot of work. I mean, while there are marvel matches that are over in the blink of an eye, there are many matches at the highest level of play that use most of (or all of) the 99 marvel second clock. I have never seen any guilty gear match run the entire clock... ever.
 
U

USD

Member
TOPANGA LEAGUE 5 (B) ROUND 9

Final day of the ranking league. Later is the playoff league on October 4 with 3rd place from group, Nemo and Tokido.

Gachikun (Sagat) vs. Pugera (Ibuki)
3-0 ○○○
Kenzo (Akuma) vs. Mago (Yang)
1-3 ●○●●
Kawaguchi (Rose) vs. Sasaki (Cody)
0-3 ●●●
Misse (Makoto) vs. NINOMAE (Rose)
3-1 ●○○○
MDR (Rufus) vs. NISHIKIN (Blanka)
-3 ●●●
Hagejin (Zangief) vs. Kawaguchi (Rose)
3-1 ○●○○
Pepeday (El Fuerte) vs. Matsuri (Chun-Li)
d1-3 ●○●●
aiai (Juri) vs. Misse (Makoto)
3-0 ○○○
6 (Poison) vs. Shiro (Abel)
3-2 ○●○●○
Pepeday (El Fuerte) vs. Mago (Yang)
3-0 ○○○
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
Zissou said:
I think you have to separate defense into 'neutral defense' and 'set play' defense. In marvel, I'd say neutral defense is pretty much defense in any non-incoming character situation while set play defense is incoming set-ups. GG set play defense usually is defending after a hard knockdown while neutral game defense is most other situations.
Click to expand...

This is an important distinction to make when analyzing any fighting game. It's at the core of why people say SF4 is defensive and the statement doesn't make sense to some people at all - space control is not that strong in it but pressure defense is phenomenal. ST is just the opposite - space control can be downright oppressive but pressure defense is a steaming pile of dogshit.

You can dissect a lot of fun stuff with it - Sol doesn't have that strong space control, but his ability to break out of pressure is amazing. Faust is just the opposite. And so on and so forth.
 
P

pixelish

Member
USD said:
TOPANGA LEAGUE 5 (B) ROUND 9

Final day of the ranking league. Later is the playoff league on October 4 with 3rd place from group, Nemo and Tokido.

Gachikun (Sagat) vs. Pugera (Ibuki)
3-0 ○○○
Kenzo (Akuma) vs. Mago (Yang)
1-3 ●○●●
Kawaguchi (Rose) vs. Sasaki (Cody)
0-3 ●●●
Misse (Makoto) vs. NINOMAE (Rose)
3-1 ●○○○
MDR (Rufus) vs. NISHIKIN (Blanka) Pepeday (El Fuerte) vs. Matsuri (Chun-Li) Hagejin (Zangief) vs. Kawaguchi (Rose) aiai (Juri) vs. Misse (Makoto) 6 (Poison) vs. Shiro (Abel) Pepeday (El Fuerte) vs. Mago (Yang)
Click to expand...
i hope misse and pepeday win the rest of their matches so they can both qualify and kitasenju goes to playoff.
 
P

pixelish

Member
Coffeeling said:
Pepeday plays so cancerous a character I want to see him crash and burn.
Click to expand...

idk i just find it funny to see a wacky character like fuerte competing in a highly prestigious and classy tournament.

and what's up with matsuri's internet? it seems that most of her topanga matches were postponed because of connection issues.
 
notworksafe

notworksafe

Member
Tizoc said:
I don't see any weird horse nonsense, they're just cartoony animals.
If there's any wacko shit about them it's all in your head.
Click to expand...
If 90% of the adult fan base related to MLP wasn't related to beating off to horse porn, then I wouldn't be thinking about any oddness. But things are the way they are, so I have no interest.

Even if most of the adult fans weren't furries, I still wouldn't be interested. But it certainly doesn't help.
 
W

WarRock

Member
Coffeeling said:
#R on Steam is the same as the disc release, so it relies on the fanmade netplay patch (which is good, helps that PC #R has really low native input delay). Means that the online population across all PC releases plays on the same infrastructure.
Click to expand...
Amazing job, ASW.

Thanks for the answer.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Zissou said:
Marvel has pushblock (which is super strong, like you said), up-back being very strong, being able to OS throws with dashes (which can then be jump cancelled), hard tag being very good against certain kinds of pressure, alpha counters (team-dependent), invincible supers which can be made safe via DHC or x-factor, 2 frame move for one bar (snap), x-factor guard cancel, defensive assists (team-dependent), and probably more stuff not coming to mind right now. That's a lot of stuff! Of course, you have to weigh it against the offensive options available in the game- can't judge defensive options in a vacuum.

Xrd has burst, FD, instant block...?
Click to expand...
Xrd also has chicken block, invincible reversals for some cast members, invincible supers, and blitz shield. I'm wary of calling hard tags and throw OS defensive measures, since they aren't purely defensive. I think Xrd has more universal options, at least.
 
I

irfaanator

Banned
Coffeeling said:
#R on Steam is the same as the disc release, so it relies on the fanmade netplay patch (which is good, helps that PC #R has really low native input delay). Means that the online population across all PC releases plays on the same infrastructure.
Click to expand...

wait there is better netcode in the pc version?
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Karsticles said:
Xrd also has chicken block, invincible reversals for some cast members, invincible supers, and blitz shield. I'm wary of calling hard tags and throw OS defensive measures, since they aren't purely defensive. I think Xrd has more universal options, at least.
Click to expand...

Xrd chicken block far worse than marvel since you have to FD ground attacks, and marvel has invincible reversals/supers. Hard tags and throw OS are absolutely defensive measures- how are they not?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Zissou said:
Xrd chicken block far worse than marvel since you have to FD ground attacks, and marvel has invincible reversals/supers. Hard tags and throw OS are absolutely defensive measures- how are they not?
Click to expand...
It's not fair to say "Marvel has invincible reversals/supers" - it's character specific, just like in Xrd.

Throw OS is offensive and defensive; you can try to throw with it. Also, I don't think throw OS is worth mentioning much in Marvel. You usually don't back dash OS. You might forward dash OS, though, which is primarily offensive.

CountBlackule said:
at least you can tech throws in marvel
Click to expand...
You can in the next version of Xrd, too!
 
P

pixelish

Member
players qualified for a league: pepeday, kitasenju dj!!!!, dashio, hagejin
players who will play in the round robin playoff with nemo and tokido: santarou, -6
 
M

Marz

Member
Zissou said:
I think you have to separate defense into 'neutral defense' and 'set play' defense. In marvel, I'd say neutral defense is pretty much defense in any non-incoming character situation while set play defense is incoming set-ups. GG set play defense usually is defending after a hard knockdown while neutral game defense is most other situations.

GG set play is more escapable because burst exists, where marvel gives you no such option. Marvel set play is also probably stronger in general just because you can craft multi-layered mix-ups that require an incoming character guess multiple times before they get to play (I think such things don't exist in GG as much? My GG knowledge is kinda trash). Of course, you have characters like Firebrand who can 300% a team with truly inescapable set-ups (though this is not limited to him).

When I say defensive options are stronger in marvel though, I'm thinking more neutral game defense. You have a lot of options defending in non-incoming situations, and while offense can be really oppressive if Magneto gets you blocking drones or something, accomplishing that is not easy to do. Set play may be ridiculous, but landing a hit that leads to that ridiculous set play is a lot of work. I mean, while there are marvel matches that are over in the blink of an eye, there are many matches at the highest level of play that use most of (or all of) the 99 marvel second clock. I have never seen any guilty gear match run the entire clock... ever.
Click to expand...

Many matches at high level play going to time nearly all involve Morridoom. Kind of an outlier don't you think? Also not really comparable when one of the games has 6 characters involved in every match, plus regenerating health when tagged out, and X factor for even more health. Don't know why you would even bring that up.

And Guilty Gear there's negative penalty so the game actually penalizes you for passive and evasive play which is another big reason for matches never going to time.

I can see your point about nuetral defense though it makes sense.
 
P

pixelish

Member
Coffeeling said:
Pepeday plays so cancerous a character I want to see him crash and burn.
Click to expand...
here's some cancerous fuerte plays from topanga earlier. you will like it.
xUIcy7X.gif
 
P

pixelish

Member
notworksafe said:
what's this about santarou taking himself out of the last chance qualifier?
Click to expand...

not sure but pepeday just retweeted this. maybe someone who knows japanese can translate this so we can know the reason why santarou has withdrawn himself from taking part in the playoff.
指喧 - YUBIKEN - ‏@yubikenTV 4m
【お知らせ】
三太郎のトパンガリーグ入替戦辞退について。
とある諸事情の為、入替戦の日に三太郎が出られなくなったため、トパンガリーグの入れ替え戦を辞退とさせて頂きました。
理由は、三太郎のつぶやきからご理解いただければと思います。申し訳ありませんが、どうぞよろしくお願いします。
Click to expand...

but i rather see misse's makoto in a league tbh
 
S

Sayad

Member
Zissou said:
GG set play is more escapable because burst exists, where marvel gives you no such option. Marvel set play is also probably stronger in general just because you can craft multi-layered mix-ups that require an incoming character guess multiple times before they get to play (I think such things don't exist in GG as much? My GG knowledge is kinda trash). Of course, you have characters like Firebrand who can 300% a team with truly inescapable set-ups (though this is not limited to him).
Click to expand...
Millia get two mix-ups with corner desc oki, more using Secret Garden and even more with Chroming Rose. Pretty sure Ram and Ino have multi layered mix ups too and there's also mixup > RRC/YRC if blocked/evaded > another mixup. Nothing near Marvel level though.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Kumubou said:
I think the issue is with fighting games have a fairly high asset floor to make a game of, to the point where the budget required would far surpass what Kickstarter could return outside of the biggest campaigns. You need a fair amount of animation done (2D or 3D) and there's no good way to shortcut around that without making the game feel incredibly jank, and given how tactile fighting games are in general it's a worse problem to have than in most genres.
Click to expand...
It's too bad fighting game characters aren't half the current asking prices. They really are the game and I think FG crowdfunding would be a bit more successful if that fact sank in for people. It doesn't help that fighting crowdfunds can only really take off if the creator has a decent resume or history.

Makes me with SNK could get the Z engine and partially fund a new Garou or Last Blade using KS. If people get a good product in their hands before release it'd probably take off.
Tizoc said:
Who do I gotta blackmail to get the latest Melty Blood released on PC and consoles?
Click to expand...
Tell me your methods if you are successful. We gotta get UNiEL on PC somehow.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
Coffeeling said:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/314030/discussions/0/616187204061383527/

The Accent Core +R netcode is what it is, dunno if #Reload's is better or not. Probably is.
And as said #Reload on PC has a really low native input delay, was two frames if memory serves.
Click to expand...

I tried some matches few years ago and the quality was very good, almost GGPO like

also the developer of Melty Blood CCCaster probably plans on a similar application for Guilty Gear AC+ R+

http://www.meltybread.com/forums/me...-client-for-mbaacc-1-4-0/msg110079/#msg110079
 
L

Lostconfused

Member
Yeah but that makes sense because education/entertainment software is a better fit for tablets than PC. It's also an obviously easier thing for children to figure out. So it makes sense that the biggest loses for PC audience are in that age group.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
pixelish said:
players qualified for a league: pepeday, kitasenju dj!!!!, dashio, hagejin
players who will play in the round robin playoff with nemo and tokido: santarou, -6
Click to expand...

I would like to see how Daigo does against them. In the past he said he wanted to counterpick Kitasenju with Guile if they met up in a tournament and he also said he was going to counterpick Poongko's Fuerte with Yun. He can't do that in the ft3 part so we'll see.

Hagejin is a monster. Momochi said that he was the player that helped him train for Snake Eyez before Capcom Cup and that he was the player he didn't want to face in Topanga A League.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
Seems like Round 1 in my area has Pokken up and running now. I don't have classes on wednesdays, so I guess I'll go next week to try it out.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Got something for folks.
Arcana Heart tutorial

Been digging deeper into this game and its just got so many options for customization that I'm hooked. Definitely pick it up on steam and get in on this craziness.

Also anyone looking for detailed primers in text they can have on hand to learn about tools and stuff in this game should check out This list of links from Dustloop or feel free to join Homing Cancel's forum where you will find combos, primers and all sorts of tips and folks to play against. I'm really happy lately exploring a game with so many options. I keep messing with Maori and different Arcana. I used Evil before in order to gain teleports and poison damage, and now I'm discovering making her immune to chip with Water Arcana makes her runaway game filled with her summon based moveset and range is super fun too. Gonna be testing her with hyper armor next and possibly Love Arcana to add homing projectiles and beams to her stuff to get super annoying with her Vajra like moves.

Here...enjoy a ten character quick impression to hear about some of the weird roster

Though I wouldn't take his list as anything approaching a believable top 10 its a quick enough way to hear and see a few of the cast. Guy didn't handle them complex characters like Maori, Dorothy or Lieselotte though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Exoprimal: Monster Hunter Update Announced
News
7
970
Punished Miku replied
Xbox officially launches Game Pass Standard
2
88
4K
Nydius replied
The Xbox that never was: Our first detailed look at the 'Keystone' cloud streaming console design
32
3K
Shut0wen replied
Activision Wants To Suggest You Games Based On The Live Streams You Watch
Business Game Dev
19
1K
winjer replied
Sony’s New Tech Lets You Create Mini-Games Out Of Your Gameplay
Game Dev
8
892
MrRibeye replied
Top Bottom