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Fighting Game Community || Stream Monster Headquarters

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yes there are weight classes and it's worthwhile to know what combos to use against what character, but I don't feel that's insightful in the same manner as something like my gouken v hugo example - it doesn't tell you how to play the match. and in vf, you shouldn't play any match with an agenda or a flowchart, it just doesn't make sense to. it's a conversation, not an exam.

that sounds beautiful
 

DunpealD

Member
These sponsorship deals are getting weird.

Not really. The team of Phenom and Veggey called BX3 seems to have TP-Link as a major sponsor, since only TPLink is always in their names.

Also Valmaster sponsored by Youporn is also a thing.

EDIT: LI Joe should have taken the Brazzers deal. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
D-Link?

I could have named pretty much every other tech company before I would have guessed D-Link would sponsor someone.
 
in vf, you shouldn't play any match with an agenda or a flowchart, it just doesn't make sense to. it's a conversation, not an exam.

Probably the biggest thing about SF that I hate is that it IS an exam. I hope SF5 has a good character balance otherwise it'll have the same competitive problems SF4 does.
 
http://www.trustedreviews.com/best-routers_round-up These here look fine. Not pretty but they look like they're just made to do their job. They're not made like the Michael Bay transformers thing above and aren't named something silly like 'Ultra Wifi Router'

They are also not in the same price range or market.

Edit:

These are the ones it's more comparable to.

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/wifi-routers/R8000.aspx

http://www.linksys.com/ca/p/P-EA8500/?georedirect=1

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-9_Archer-C3200.html

But yes the garish red does make it stand out more.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Do you guys actually want to see high level play? Bans would be horrible, even a lot of the top level guys can only play 2 characters at a high level.

Also the fact that some people just don't want to play more characters. I like playing Sagat and Adon and that's it in 4. If somebody Bans my characters i'm simply not going to enter it's not fun.
That's a silly argument to make because otherwise team based fighters wouldn't exist. In games like KoF and MVC players HAVE to play at least 3 characters and they do that. And on top of that counter picks still exist so many players play even more characters than that.

If the game was designed from the ground up with multiple character compositions and a drafting system in place then players would of course focus on learning multiple characters as it would be an essential skill required to play the game. If they don't think they can handle playing a team of characters or more then they will play something else.

No one really is saying "oh man wouldn't it be so much better if you could ban characters in SF4". SF4 is an established 1v1 fighter that is not built with a drafting system in mind and thus it would be a really bad idea for anyone to try a ban tournament for it. People are mostly considering the possibility of a fighter that is built from the ground up with this system in mind.


Drafting process for a potential team fighter would be quite fascinating IMO. Players would have to prepare multiple teams, strategies and counters for tournaments and they can target ban against players so knowledge and experience would play a huge part in the competition. Some people don't find merit in something like that (and it's fine) but I find it interesting. I always enjoy watching drafting phases in MOBAs.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
yes there are weight classes and it's worthwhile to know what combos to use against what character, but I don't feel that's insightful in the same manner as something like my gouken v hugo example - it doesn't tell you how to play the match. and in vf, you shouldn't play any match with an agenda or a flowchart, it just doesn't make sense to. it's a conversation, not an exam.
I love when weight class is a consideration in a game. Like for example in doa the heavy weights are slower and have more damage on some moves and are combined differently with juggles and set your game plan against them. For example since I mess with Phase 4's juggles and Enders that change with weight class, for most of the cast I can put in a few hits more for damage but against Bass and Raidou I modify my combo to be shorter and to end with a dunk (air throw off a teleport) or a wall smash combo which equals same damage as my longer combos on lighter characters. It is a great consideration to work out. Too much people drop combos on the weight class when there is a simpler answer. Love it about vf and doa.
 

shaowebb

Member
Just a reminder, Arcana Heart 3 Love Max will be going up for sale tonight on Steam. I'm putting together cards that give a quick and easy rundown of each Arcana that folks can reference from their browser off screen to help folks ease into the crazy sandbox exploration of all the tools in this game. Gonna see if the mods will let me do a new OT for it since the old one described fuck all about any of the mechanics, characters, arcanas or stuff that matters to get folks interested or excited.

Anyone who wants to play on either PS3, Vita, or Steam hop on in. Its a helluva great time. You can equip everything from Iceman's boulders, Chip immunity, Colossus' hyper armor, super cancels, tiger shots, Jin saotome mecha fists, jojo stands and more in this game. Plus the regular movesets are equally great with characters that have traits of folks like Hurricane Polymar, Hazama, Akuma, D Bo, Zato-1, and a ton of original stuff.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Just a reminder, Arcana Heart 3 Love Max will be going up for sale tonight on Steam. I'm putting together cards that give a quick and easy rundown of each Arcana that folks can reference from their browser off screen to help folks ease into the crazy sandbox exploration of all the tools in this game. Gonna see if the mods will let me do a new OT for it since the old one described fuck all about any of the mechanics, characters, arcanas or stuff that matters to get folks interested or excited.

Anyone who wants to play on either PS3, Vita, or Steam hop on in. Its a helluva great time. You can equip everything from Iceman's boulders, Chip immunity, Colossus' hyper armor, super cancels, tiger shots, Jin saotome mecha fists, jojo stands and more in this game. Plus the regular movesets are equally great with characters that have traits of folks like Hurricane Polymar, Hazama, Akuma, D Bo, Zato-1, and a ton of original stuff.

Ill buy on the 1st
 

Numb

Member
Just a reminder, Arcana Heart 3 Love Max will be going up for sale tonight on Steam. I'm putting together cards that give a quick and easy rundown of each Arcana that folks can reference from their browser off screen to help folks ease into the crazy sandbox exploration of all the tools in this game. Gonna see if the mods will let me do a new OT for it since the old one described fuck all about any of the mechanics, characters, arcanas or stuff that matters to get folks interested or excited.

Anyone who wants to play on either PS3, Vita, or Steam hop on in. Its a helluva great time. You can equip everything from Iceman's boulders, Chip immunity, Colossus' hyper armor, super cancels, tiger shots, Jin saotome mecha fists, jojo stands and more in this game. Plus the regular movesets are equally great with characters that have traits of folks like Hurricane Polymar, Hazama, Akuma, D Bo, Zato-1, and a ton of original stuff.

Stands + my girl Kamui that looks like Shigure for some reason. I would get this if i didn't spend my game money already.
Wasn't there a new Arcana heart that got announed or version? Not sure.
Looking forward to the OT if you make it.
 

petghost

Banned
Just a reminder, Arcana Heart 3 Love Max will be going up for sale tonight on Steam. I'm putting together cards that give a quick and easy rundown of each Arcana that folks can reference from their browser off screen to help folks ease into the crazy sandbox exploration of all the tools in this game. Gonna see if the mods will let me do a new OT for it since the old one described fuck all about any of the mechanics, characters, arcanas or stuff that matters to get folks interested or excited.

Anyone who wants to play on either PS3, Vita, or Steam hop on in. Its a helluva great time. You can equip everything from Iceman's boulders, Chip immunity, Colossus' hyper armor, super cancels, tiger shots, Jin saotome mecha fists, jojo stands and more in this game. Plus the regular movesets are equally great with characters that have traits of folks like Hurricane Polymar, Hazama, Akuma, D Bo, Zato-1, and a ton of original stuff.

Thank god, i feel like it's been ages since shadowebb posted a wall of text about the virtues of arcana. got worried for a bit. Where the gifs tho?
 

shaowebb

Member
Ill buy on the 1st

Stands + my girl Kamui that looks like Shigure for some reason. I would get this if i didn't spend my game money already.
Wasn't there a new Arcana heart that got announed or version? Not sure.
Looking forward to the OT if you make it.

Awesome! I'm about halfway done setting up these Arcana Cards now so I hope to finish before I gotta crash tonight. I definitely want to try and give this title a coherent OT if its allowed at this point though. The old OT didn't describe homing dashes, dash cancels, Extend Force, Arcanas, characters, or anything really. Just "hey guys its a game with waifus" is what it felt like and that is EXACTLY the generalized impression this game needs to overcome to make folks find out what its capable of.

Oh well, back to work editting data. Hopefully I can get this thing looking nice for yall so we can all start to see some fun stuff. I'll do my best on character descriptions on moveset/strats but I'm no expert on the roster yet. It'd help if anyone here knows how to use tags to not only spoiler something but to make it so its a drop down sorta spoiler that doesn't show anything or take up room until clicked...otherwise it'd be black bar city for me to even try that approach.
 

Clawww

Member
Awesome! I'm about halfway done setting up these Arcana Cards now so I hope to finish before I gotta crash tonight. I definitely want to try and give this title a coherent OT if its allowed at this point though. The old OT didn't describe homing dashes, dash cancels, Extend Force, Arcanas, characters, or anything really. Just "hey guys its a game with waifus" is what it felt like and that is EXACTLY the generalized impression this game needs to overcome to make folks find out what its capable of.

Oh well, back to work editting data. Hopefully I can get this thing looking nice for yall so we can all start to see some fun stuff. I'll do my best on character descriptions on moveset/strats but I'm no expert on the roster yet. It'd help if anyone here knows how to use tags to not only spoiler something but to make it so its a drop down sorta spoiler that doesn't show anything or take up room until clicked...otherwise it'd be black bar city for me to even try that approach.

cool, man. I'm interesting in trying it out, I don't really know much about the game but I've always heard it's fun. I'm not sure I'll buy it right when it drops but I'll definitely take a look at what you're cooking up
 

Astarte

Member
Just a reminder, Arcana Heart 3 Love Max will be going up for sale tonight on Steam. I'm putting together cards that give a quick and easy rundown of each Arcana that folks can reference from their browser off screen to help folks ease into the crazy sandbox exploration of all the tools in this game. Gonna see if the mods will let me do a new OT for it since the old one described fuck all about any of the mechanics, characters, arcanas or stuff that matters to get folks interested or excited.

Anyone who wants to play on either PS3, Vita, or Steam hop on in. Its a helluva great time. You can equip everything from Iceman's boulders, Chip immunity, Colossus' hyper armor, super cancels, tiger shots, Jin saotome mecha fists, jojo stands and more in this game. Plus the regular movesets are equally great with characters that have traits of folks like Hurricane Polymar, Hazama, Akuma, D Bo, Zato-1, and a ton of original stuff.

I'll definitely give it a shot if the people I play with give it a shot too :v
 

Numb

Member
Awesome! I'm about halfway done setting up these Arcana Cards now so I hope to finish before I gotta crash tonight. I definitely want to try and give this title a coherent OT if its allowed at this point though. The old OT didn't describe homing dashes, dash cancels, Extend Force, Arcanas, characters, or anything really. Just "hey guys its a game with waifus" is what it felt like and that is EXACTLY the generalized impression this game needs to overcome to make folks find out what its capable of.

Oh well, back to work editting data. Hopefully I can get this thing looking nice for yall so we can all start to see some fun stuff. I'll do my best on character descriptions on moveset/strats but I'm no expert on the roster yet. It'd help if anyone here knows how to use tags to not only spoiler something but to make it so its a drop down sorta spoiler that doesn't show anything or take up room until clicked...otherwise it'd be black bar city for me to even try that approach.

Lack of info is what's getting into doing this so make sure you put everything you can in there.
 

Dahbomb

Member
ufgt had the ban tournament for marvel. It seemed to do alright, and point based tournies seem intersting
That tournament was alright for fun but there wasn't any strategy to the banning outside of "oh I know Vergil is going to get banned so I am going to ban this character instead". That was a format that targeted towards pools, not player specific bans which are a bit more interesting.

Imagine if its ChrisG vs Justin Wong. Banning phase is as following:

1st phase: 2 bans on each side, one by one. Characters which are banned can't be used by either players.

2nd phase: Players pick any of the remaining characters. Each player can pick whatever 2 they like (different from MOBAs here because it's fine to pick mirror characters in fighters).

3rd phase: 1 ban each this time.

4th phase: Players pick their final character.


This will lead to some crazy mind games and putting out pocket strats in order to out draft someone.

For example: ChrisG bans Wolverine/Akuma first phase thinking he's fine with Justin picking Storm. Justin bans Morrigan/Vergil thinking he can handle ChrisG without those characters.

Picking phase ChrisG picks Wesker and Dr Doom. Justin throws ChrisG for a loop and picks Nova/Strange.

Now ChrisG is panicking because he's thinking "oh man he's going for team Nemo I have to ban Spencer in the next phase!" Where as Justin is thinking "he's got Wesker with a Horizontal assist, no vertical assist... I can ban Strider and go for a flying character next if I want to".

Final ban phase begins, ChrisG bans Spencer. Justin is unphased because he saw the ban incoming anyway, then he bans Strider.

In the final phase, ChrisG sees that Justin has more or less of an aggressive team and picks Haggar as his final character who is also usable with Doom (and Doom in turn can use Haggar too). Justin seeing that Strider is banned goes for a HAIL MARY Phoenix pick because both Strider and Vergil are out of the pool! ChrisG got bamboozled!


Now ChrisG loses this game against Dark Phoenix and in next game he is forced to ban out Phoenix which gives Justin the opportunity to pick let's say Spencer or hell ChrisG bans Phoenix/Wolverine first phase which leaves Akuma open for Justin. Then Justin can pick Nova/Storm/Akuma which is a team he can actually play really well.
 
That tournament was alright for fun but there wasn't any strategy to the banning outside of "oh I know Vergil is going to get banned so I am going to ban this character instead". That was a format that targeted towards pools, not player specific bans which are a bit more interesting.

Imagine if its ChrisG vs Justin Wong. Banning phase is as following:

1st phase: 2 bans on each side, one by one. Characters which are banned can't be used by either players.

2nd phase: Players pick any of the remaining characters. Each player can pick whatever 2 they like (different from MOBAs here because it's fine to pick mirror characters in fighters).

3rd phase: 1 ban each this time.

4th phase: Players pick their final character.


This will lead to some crazy mind games and putting out pocket strats in order to out draft someone.

For example: ChrisG bans Wolverine/Akuma first phase thinking he's fine with Justin picking Storm. Justin bans Morrigan/Vergil thinking he can handle ChrisG without those characters.

Picking phase ChrisG picks Wesker and Dr Doom. Justin throws ChrisG for a loop and picks Nova/Strange.

Now ChrisG is panicking because he's thinking "oh man he's going for team Nemo I have to ban Spencer in the next phase!" Where as Justin is thinking "he's got Wesker with a Horizontal assist, no vertical assist... I can ban Strider and go for a flying character next if I want to".

Final ban phase begins, ChrisG bans Spencer. Justin is unphased because he saw the ban incoming anyway, then he bans Strider.

In the final phase, ChrisG sees that Justin has more or less of an aggressive team and picks Haggar as his final character who is also usable with Doom (and Doom in turn can use Haggar too). Justin seeing that Strider is banned goes for a HAIL MARY Phoenix pick because both Strider and Vergil are out of the pool! ChrisG got bamboozled!


Now ChrisG loses this game against Dark Phoenix and in next game he is forced to ban out Phoenix which gives Justin the opportunity to pick let's say Spencer or hell ChrisG bans Phoenix/Wolverine first phase which leaves Akuma open for Justin. Then Justin can pick Nova/Storm/Akuma which is a team he can actually play really well.

would be interesting, too bad that plus matches would take like 20 minutes. also kinda makes counterpicking a bit weaker. like banning dormammu and somehow letting morrigan through
 

Dahbomb

Member
would be interesting, too bad that plus matches would take like 20 minutes. also kinda makes counterpicking a bit weaker. like banning dormammu and somehow letting morrigan through
Counterpicking still exists in this format because of the last pick phase.

You also have to consider who you are playing against. If it's FChamp vs ChrisG, there's no way that ChrisG doesn't ban Dorm/Magneto while FChamp also doesn't ban Morrigan/Vergil.

After a certain point, you pretty know what players would pick after the initial ban phase (which is how the meta is developed). That's how it is in MOBAs and then you can counter that based on their preferences after particular bans. Like if you know Justin is going to pick Nova/Strange after getting his Wolverine/Akuma banned then you can immediately pick like Zero/Dante (for the sake of the example let's say this duo counters Nova/Strange). This does give Justin some way to reduce the impact of the counter pick by picking a character that can counter Zero/Dante in the last phase but 2/3rds of his team still got counter picked.


Like I said it would fundamentally be a very different game at the highest level and people would have to learn the game from scratch. Suddenly MODOK looks insanely good if Vergil/Wolverine are remove from the pool. Suddenly Iron Man doesn't seem like a bad pick if Doom is banned and you really need a TAC/beam character.
 

Zissou

Member
That tournament was alright for fun but there wasn't any strategy to the banning outside of "oh I know Vergil is going to get banned so I am going to ban this character instead". That was a format that targeted towards pools, not player specific bans which are a bit more interesting.

Imagine if its ChrisG vs Justin Wong. Banning phase is as following:

1st phase: 2 bans on each side, one by one. Characters which are banned can't be used by either players.

2nd phase: Players pick any of the remaining characters. Each player can pick whatever 2 they like (different from MOBAs here because it's fine to pick mirror characters in fighters).

3rd phase: 1 ban each this time.

4th phase: Players pick their final character.


This will lead to some crazy mind games and putting out pocket strats in order to out draft someone.

For example: ChrisG bans Wolverine/Akuma first phase thinking he's fine with Justin picking Storm. Justin bans Morrigan/Vergil thinking he can handle ChrisG without those characters.

Picking phase ChrisG picks Wesker and Dr Doom. Justin throws ChrisG for a loop and picks Nova/Strange.

Now ChrisG is panicking because he's thinking "oh man he's going for team Nemo I have to ban Spencer in the next phase!" Where as Justin is thinking "he's got Wesker with a Horizontal assist, no vertical assist... I can ban Strider and go for a flying character next if I want to".

Final ban phase begins, ChrisG bans Spencer. Justin is unphased because he saw the ban incoming anyway, then he bans Strider.

In the final phase, ChrisG sees that Justin has more or less of an aggressive team and picks Haggar as his final character who is also usable with Doom (and Doom in turn can use Haggar too). Justin seeing that Strider is banned goes for a HAIL MARY Phoenix pick because both Strider and Vergil are out of the pool! ChrisG got bamboozled!


Now ChrisG loses this game against Dark Phoenix and in next game he is forced to ban out Phoenix which gives Justin the opportunity to pick let's say Spencer or hell ChrisG bans Phoenix/Wolverine first phase which leaves Akuma open for Justin. Then Justin can pick Nova/Storm/Akuma which is a team he can actually play really well.

A 3v3 fighter designed from the ground up to be played this way could be fucking awesome. You'd have to go further into standardizing universal magic series combos and make special inputs as universal as possible in order to facilitate players being able to become competent with multiple characters, but the new strategy that would arise would be really interesting.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Unfortunately I feel that there isn't really a strong enough market for 3v3 fighters especially with complex team interactions (both good and bad forms of complexity) on top of having a drafting system which I can tell you right now... many people in MOBAs don't even know how to draft properly (which is why pubs are played with All picks). People struggle to play one character in a fighter well with limited air options and less disparity of toolset... it would be even more challenging for someone completely new to put out a team based fighter.

Only team based fighter that has any amount of relative "success" is the MVC series because of the all the big name characters attached to the series. That and KOFXIII I guess but that's a bit of a different beast right there.


Maybe if someone like S-Kill makes a PC F2P team based fighter like Rising Thunder with everything being easy in terms of inputs and combos.
 
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