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[ShinMaruku]

All this Dizzy talk, if she came along side Jam for our version I think I'd jump at GG. Hopefully by then my fighting game vocabulary will have been made a frame work.

 

[SolarPowered]

This channel also has a bunch of AC stuff, but no +R stuff. You'd probably wanna use this for more recent AC / +R vids. http://horibuna.web.fc2.com/index.html

Character thumbnails stuffed with links to what seems like character specific battle groupings for the entire cast? In this moment I literally quiver with euphoria.

 

[Marz]

That 10 year throwback combo.

Oh I didn't know it was old, I'd never seen it before lol.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Some DOA matches from the GAF lobby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuE-tuXhS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ3eRWDJrSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyDJJq2u3MI

 

[Coffeeling]

Thing is, it probably took a lot of games and testing to make what Arcana has as balanced as it is and even it has a tier list to it.

The most balanced game in the world will have a tier list. It's like Rule 34. Though I've seen people refuse to quantify matchups because "anyone can win" or the like - it was goddamn impossible to find tier lists and matchup charts at VFDC, for example. Answer was always that it doesn't matter or something - yes, it does, and yes, it's real. It may not be as bad as ST, and I'm glad as hell it isn't but it's a bit annoying when a game lacks these kinds of condensed "get up to speed" resources.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I think we just gotta discuss the important things like whether or not you are in on that AH3 steam port. I really can't wait to have AH on my laptop since it'll make practicing much easier. Gonna have to roll the dice on NSA and Chris Hansen spying tho.

Even on my Laptop I'd be too ashamed to own that game. Vita is the only home for it.

 

[Coffeeling]

Getting better at ST slowly but surely. It's a really fun game, at least for now.

 

[oneida]

VF tournament

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv236608780

i hate niconico
japan pleASE

The most balanced game in the world will have a tier list. It's like Rule 34. Though I've seen people refuse to quantify matchups because "anyone can win" or the like - it was goddamn impossible to find tier lists and matchup charts at VFDC, for example. Answer was always that it doesn't matter or something - yes, it does, and yes, it's real. It may not be as bad as ST, and I'm glad as hell it isn't but it's a bit annoying when a game lacks these kinds of condensed "get up to speed" resources.

The reason it's difficult to quantify matchups in games like VF is there are universal defensive options that negate the offensive options for each character. In this regard, a "getting up to speed resource" should be learning the game's defensive options. I guess to elaborate on this, when you read matchup analysis, it's what each character has to do to answer the opponent's options and maintain control of the match. From that page:

Fireball and Ex-tatsu make Hugo's life very hard. Hugo's sheer size makes zoning him particularly easy. Gouken's armor-breaking ex-tatsu beats all of Hugo's runs. Like Honda, Gouken should not let Hugo get close. If Hugo does get in, then it's a guessing game to try to get him off of you. Don't let it get to that point.

It is impossible to talk about Virtua Fighter like this. Characters aren't really restricted and as a result everyone has an answer to everything, no one 'loses' a matchup. Yes, reads like this exist in every game, but musings on how X character has to uniquely handle Y's offense do not exist in this one. I'm curious why you feel that tier lists and matchups matter and exist for every game. I'm also curious what tier list you found and if you'd feel it would still be insightful if the character at the bottom regularly won events. imo VF tier lists are hilarious and should only be read as a List Of Characters.

Maybe a better solution, then, is a less-relative primer on how to approach a match with no understanding of your opponent. Not "Eileen v Kage", but instead a general "v Kage" discussion. What strings and moves are punishable? What's half circular, what's mid? What defensive options beat this attack?

These, of course, become obvious the more familiar we are with the game. But if you're looking for a means of "getting up to speed", this would be a lot more useful than "Eileen v Kage" which wouldn't be different from "Wolf v Kage" or "Goh v Kage".

 

[pixelish]

i heard that cafeid closed down. sad times for korean kof scene.

 

[ChamplooJones]

I actually like it when fighting games aren't matchup dependent.

 

[Zissou]

MUs mattering less kind of homogenizes the game though?

 

[oneida]

MUs mattering less kind of homogenizes the game though?

is that bad? sorry to use the chess example, but ought P2 have different options than P1?

 

[Zissou]

is that bad? sorry to use the chess example, but ought P2 have different options than P1?

The asymmetry of fighting games is interesting. Why have different characters if their (defensive?) options are fundamentally the same?

 

[oneida]

The asymmetry of fighting games is interesting. Why have different characters if their options are fundamentally the same?

because they still play differently enough to be interesting despite having lots of common denominators.

their vs OS stuff changes the most. some chars have guard break, others don't, some have low throw, others don't, some can guard cancel K, others can't, etc

 

[DunpealD]

is that bad? sorry to use the chess example, but ought P2 have different options than P1?

Is here even a game where P1 has different options than P2?

 

[ChamplooJones]

The asymmetry of fighting games is interesting. Why have different characters if their (defensive?) options are fundamentally the same?

The characters would still be distinct from one another even if the share the same defensive options.

 

[Zissou]

because they still play differently enough to be interesting despite having lots of common denominators.

their vs OS stuff changes the most. some chars have guard break, others don't, some have low throw, others don't, some can guard cancel K, others can't, etc

I dunno- feel like too many universal defensive options are kind of a balance cop-out sometimes.

 

[oneida]

I dunno- feel like too many universal defensive options are kind of a balance cop-out sometimes.

what does that even mean?

 

[ChamplooJones]

I dunno- feel like too many universal defensive options are kind of a balance cop-out sometimes.

Is there a game you had in mind specifically?

 

[Zissou]

what does that even mean?

"We weren't able to make sure that each character had their own answers to all the bullshit in this game, so we gave everybody the same stuff (to some extent)" is boring.

 

[oneida]

"We weren't able to make sure that each character had their own answers to all the bullshit in this game, so we gave everybody the same stuff (to some extent)" is boring.

it's just a different design. a lot more interesting than having character archetypes imo.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

The asymmetry of fighting games is interesting. Why have different characters if their (defensive?) options are fundamentally the same?

Nuanced differences are more than enough to allow characters to play differently. If you think it makes all characters the same then you just don't care.

 

[Zissou]

Is there a game you had in mind specifically?

I dunno- guilty gear receives high praise for its character diversity, but they can achieve that, to an extent, because learning to fight against a character is not as MU-specific as other games.

it's just a different design. a lot more interesting than having character archetypes imo.

I like characters being truly fundamentally different
It's mostly personal preference, but it'll probably turn into a 2D vs 3D fighter thing if we argue long enough.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah character match ups aren't a huge component of 3D fighters when compared to 2D fighters.

You have to of course know the character you are playing against but since most characters have very similar defensive options, you just know how to beat a certain move/strategy and that will generally apply for all characters.

 

[oneida]

I like characters being truly fundamentally different
It's mostly personal preference, but it'll probably turn into a 2D vs 3D fighter thing if we argue long enough.

MU is a competitive copout

 

[DryEyeRelief]

MU is a competitive copout

more like a competitive dead end

the contradiction of wanting a match up oriented fighter is that people do their best to pick a character, or combination of characters that won't leave them vulnerable to losing at the character select screen

 

[Zissou]

MU is a competitive copout

Just saying character asymmetry and universal options are diametrically opposed, and I personally like asymmetry

It's personal preference, ultimately. I just don't think you can champion a games lack of MU-specific stuff as if nothing was lost to get there.

 

[Dahbomb]

more like a competitive dead end

This statement needs further elaboration.

 

[Lostconfused]

It's personal preference, ultimately. I just don't think you can champion a games lack of MU-specific stuff as if nothing was lost to get there.

It's not always a negative to lose things.

 

[Zissou]

It's not always a negative to lose things.

Like I said- I think it's preference. For me, MU-asymmetry is a strength of fighting games. I don't want to play old MK games where everybody's normals are the same. Characters being meaningfully different is interesting. Going too far in the character-uniqueness direction is bad too though, imo. It's a balancing act- homogenize too much and it's boring; diversify too much and the game lacks coherence.

 

[oneida]

Like I said- I think it's preference. For me, MU-asymmetry is a strength of fighting games. I don't want to play old MK games where everybody's normals are the same. Characters being meaningfully different is interesting. Going too far in the character-uniqueness direction is bad too though, imo. It's a balancing act- homogenize too much and it's boring; diversify too much and the game lacks coherence.

I think if you spent a weekend figuring out Pai and the next figuring out El Blaze you would find that they are meaningfully different even if their fuzzy guard is the same.

 

[4r5]

I really didn't play enough Dizzy back in Reload since I spent way more time on AC and +R's. Unless I read that wrong, what made Dizzy more simplified later on compared to Reload?

Dizzy's air normals all got condensed in to her new j.2S. Prior to j.2S, each button served a narrow function and learning these functions and when to apply them was the nuance that separated the novice from the intermediate. In many cases, j.2S can be used in place of another button or is simply the better button--period. It's also completely throw invul, because why not.

A lot of subtleties in Dizzy's neutral play got lost with the introduction of Force Breaks. Same could be said for the whole cast. A lot of character's game-flow are setup with a kind of A -> B -> C format. With either the A or the B being partially, or completely, missing. And they leave it up to the player to make up the difference through good play, and the understanding and use of system mechanics, mainly Roman cancels.

Dizzy has incredible projectiles (the B) that lead in to equally fearsome mixups (the C), but how does she ever get a projectile out when their startup is so huge? (The A is lacking.) A combination of good movement, coupled with well placed Bubbles, can buy you the space/time needed to get your projectile game going. Failing that, surviving long enough to accumulate 75% meter for an Imperial Ray FRC will get you atleast one projectile.

When Force Breaks were introduced to the series, they were often used to fill in these missing parts of characters. In Dizzy's case, where there was once a very fun and interesting game of cat and mouse, became blah-blah-blah "Ok, I got 25%, here comes my Force Break! Alright, now here comes the mixups!" What we got with Force Breaks wasn't as interesting as what we had without them.

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

I'm with oneida. Differences can be small but still very meaningful. KOF is another example of this.

 

[Rhapsody]

KDJ leaves Team Liquid http://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/2015/09/28/all-good-things-must-come-to-an-end

Dizzy's air normals all got condensed in to her new j.2S. Prior to j.2S, each button served a narrow function and learning these functions and when to apply them was the nuance that separated the novice from the intermediate. In many cases, j.2S can be used in place of another button or is simply the better button--period. It's also completely throw invul, because why not.

A lot of subtleties in Dizzy's neutral play got lost with the introduction of Force Breaks. Same could be said for the whole cast. A lot of character's game-flow are setup with a kind of A -> B -> C format. With either the A or the B being partially, or completely, missing. And they leave it up to the player to make up the difference through good play, and the understanding and use of system mechanics, mainly Roman cancels.

Dizzy has incredible projectiles (the B) that lead in to equally fearsome mixups (the C), but how does she ever get a projectile out when their startup is so huge? (The A is lacking.) A combination of good movement, coupled with well placed Bubbles, can buy you the space/time needed to get your projectile game going. Failing that, surviving long enough to accumulate 75% meter for an Imperial Ray FRC will get you atleast one projectile.

When Force Breaks were introduced to the series, they were often used to fill in these missing parts of characters. In Dizzy's case, where there was once a very fun and interesting game of cat and mouse, became blah-blah-blah "Ok, I got 25%, here comes my Force Break! Alright, now here comes the mixups!" What we got with Force Breaks wasn't as interesting as what we had without them.

Thanks for the writeup. Makes a lot of sense, especially considering j2S being pretty all purpose.

 

[mbpm1]

KOF has small differences? Characters looked pretty different even with universal mechanics.

 

[jerry1594]

Can someone tell me some good Venoms in AC/+R

 

[Tizoc]

This is clearly the calm before the storm...

3 Hours of GG Xrd R
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjYFEicv3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzyoVY8UnbA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmRzB8dWnlk

8+ Hours of Hokuto no Ken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtuplKVFV10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7wGi9AxTZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPJ2O145E7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsfo7gOl9a0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4zbOQN5u1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XDqxwtn5tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmqiA0UwUy4

3 Hours of Melty Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_lCBolfQZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6wQV-61vLM

2 Hours of Under Night InBirth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2h5vtTcI_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOhifdDWnPE

 

[ShinMaruku]

DOA5 Lobby:
www.twitch.tv/shinmaruku

 

[Tizoc]

Use the best Character Portrait plz.

Now we need a snowboard/surfer alt for Necalli.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Parents are going to Japan. Anything I should ask from them or for my 7 & 3 year old girl & boy? Please no Anime.

 

[notworksafe]

candy, always candy

 

[Shackzam]

Blackout God energy drink

 

[That Dude John]

Blackout God energy drink

I like this human. He understands.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

My wife and daughter wants Tsum Tsum? I asked for Picross 3D-2 and asked for a dinosaur or train for my son.

 

[mbpm1]

Parents are going to Japan. Anything I should ask from them or for my 7 & 3 year old girl & boy? Please no Anime.

7-11.

Tell them to bring the entire 7-11 back.

 

[Shackzam]

My wife and daughter wants Tsum Tsum? I asked for Picross 3D-2 and asked for a dinosaur or train for my son.

Get all the different flavoured kit Kats as well

 

[Tizoc]

King of Fighters 99 Anniversary Edition by Yashional



Game was revamped with some KOFXI super active visuals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogNaaw9dMU0
Video shows 2012 version, but the games has been updated many times and to the point of last month.

two styles for each characters: 99 mode and 98 mode.


Each mode has there own type of dodge from the represented games:



And 11 EX characters:

Finally MUGEN does something right.

Parents are going to Japan. Anything I should ask from them or for my 7 & 3 year old girl & boy? Please no Anime.

Katanas of course.

 

[oneida]

speaking of... best home port of KoF 97 is Wii VC, yeah?

 

[Tizoc]

speaking of... best home port of KoF 97 is Wii VC, yeah?

I think the PSP KoF Collection is good too from what I heard.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I am on the side of a match up less game because if you have match up dependant games you can go too far in that direction like sf4.