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Fighting Game Headquarters |2| 0-2 vs Community
- Thread starter notworksafe
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skLaFarebear
Member
ShinMaruku
Member
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
For what it's worth, as a European I've had good connections with a couple of US people and one Japanese player during the last SFV beta. On SFIV (including Ultra on PC) there was always quite a bit of perceivable delay.
I'd rather still see Lab Zero do a Darkstalkers personally; GGPO netcode would be a shoe-in and their animation work is leaps and bounds above Arc's, which to me always came off as a little rigid. Darkstalkers is very vivid in motion, so they'd be a no-brainer to follow up on that 'legacy.'
Emperor Bohe
Member
did anything cool ever come out of project EF-12?
I have hope for SFV. Time to upgrade my internet again.
What am I seeing exactly?
Nooooo, come back ;_;
Lol, the thirst for ass is real.
There's only one answer
What am I seeing exactly?
Nooooo, come back ;_;
Good luck buddy and best wishes!
Lol, the thirst for ass is real.
I have been summoned
Swiggity swooty.
Oh really?
I wonder what could have scarred him off...
I have been summoned
Oh yes, of course. Shin, the thirst monster.
SolarPowered
Member
Yes
We really do need 4rd Strike and VSav 2:Complete Edition. Too bad Mike will never get the opportunity. Devs (especially at Capcom) mucking around with the original Vsav is going to lead to disaster. I don't even want to imagine what could go wrong lol. VSav may be one of the most balanced fighters, but that balance walks on a tightrope between twin Burj Khalifas.
It hits me now and then that Bill Clinton was still in office when VSav was released. A fighter that old playing so smoothly never ceases to impress. I still can't fucking wrap my head around KOF XIII in comparison.
The game's tourney scene hit it's pinnacle a long time ago and the players are somehow still active.
With Capcom money a Lab Zero made DSIV would probably become the new defacto king of 2D (not 3D models dammit) fighting animation and it'd still be a fraction of SFV's budget. People begging for 3D models would fall to their knees in repentance.
Skullgirls' animation is to Xrd's animation as Berserk is to Bleach in terms of manga detail. It's perfectly okay to like the latter more. There just ain't no beating Peacock's walking animation.
Who's to say they can't adjust their style to suit the game's needs?
Not just art style but also animation style, they can change it but that just put them along with all the other studios who "maybe can capture DS style it they tried to".
shaowebb
Member
Ugh...this thing.
Tried and wasted a whole year on this thing. Wanna know why it died?
- Essentially built from the ground up to be a ring out fighter like Soul Calibur. Folks like me were interested in it for 2.5d fighters with a stage wall like SFIV or other stuff. Took the creator forever to get this one thing in...sets the tone for all updates to come
- the public CANNOT access the source code to customize this engine. We get the equivalent of a spreadsheet to edit variables in. Its the creators baby and apparently whatever you wanna make is okay so long as it doesn't deviate too hard from whatever he sees fit to add himself.
- Got strung along for MONTHS about various features through the english contact person. Later read in his own youtube comments saying to someone else that asked bout the same features that they weren't a priority. They tell me for months to keep working on my stuff because "its coming" and then say its not a priority? Fuck that kind of shit.
- The thing is in japanese and it only gets translated SLOWLY. What is translated is translated very hit or miss so the variables you can edit are more trial and error than straight forward. Considering you have to struggle for basic functional things like configuring walls you may as well start over elsewhere.
Yeah...its a free to use 3d engine you can dump into like Mugen. Then struggle forever to find the variable (if its one he thinks you should be able to edit) in the spreadsheet. You can make fighters just not a very customizable one the last time I touched it.
Folks don't mention it because we all got fed up with it not being allowed to do anything and not getting updates and not having anything in a language we can use. Switched to Universal Fighting Engine in Unity which is a GUI that has a fuckton more support, and features in Unity with complete source code access. Doubt many people will bother with EF-12 unless the dude changes the user interactivity a TON and gets someone doing a solid job translating it.
I put animation and artstyle together in how they produce the look and feel of the game.
And of all current devs who make 2D fighters they do seem the ones who are more likely to produce something that matches style of the DS series.
Just finish the game and by then you'll get used to it. Grind City may be a problem though...
Just based on the use of pixel art and how "anime" DS look while SG look more like western animation, I'd say there are at least two studios before Lap Zero in that list.
As for animation, SG's animate more like tradition animation(though it isn't fully traditional animation) while a big part of DS look is the anime style keyframe animation.
SolarPowered
Member
I'm trying to find the connection between these two terms, but I'm struggling. SG characters are usually over the top in personality and movement. You can see it in the way Peacock bounces in her walk, how Squigly walks like the western equivalent of a Yamato nadeshiko, how Parasoul moves like a fencer and how Fortune makes it ultra obvious that she's falling apart at the seams as her stitches barely hold her together. It's Darkstalkers on steroids. The choice to go over the top was the right one because SG needed to catch as much attention as possible last generation when the market was super competitive. Working on Darkstalkers would be a simple matter of dialing the silliness back to the point where it mostly shows in quick specials and normals. VSav's foolishness would probably be a lot easier to spot if it were played at it's normal speed too.
I can't blame some people for not seeing it. If characters like Ileum, Brain Drain, Hive, Black Dahlia and Scythana were on the roster it'd be super easy to visualize how Q.Bee, Demitri, BB Hood and Victor would play. If they can't see Jedah in Eliza I'm afraid there is no hope for them though lol.
five hours of VF from yesterday
http://youtu.be/9BylttPmZj4
http://youtu.be/9BylttPmZj4
RockTurtle
Member
I totally understand why ASW animate the way they do but I honestly don't think its a good fit for the Darkstalkers universe. If the aim to make a new 2D art Darkstalkers, I don't see how the choice isn't Lab Zero be it animation skill, their artists' familiarity and appreciation for the Darkstalkers universe, Mike Z's familiarity and appreciation for the Darkstalkers universe, etc (again assuming Capcom can't be trusted with their own IP). Hell, after messing around with Indivisble and watching/listening to what Mike has to say about Super Metroid, I probably trust LZ to do a new 2D Metroid right more than Nintendo right now.
What do you mean by keyframe animation? Keyframes are a standard part of any animation process - its not something you can animate without nor is it something that you use to anime exclusively. Here's an old video going over how Lab Zero animated Skullgirls (and most of their project moving forward too).
What do you mean by keyframe animation? Keyframes are a standard part of any animation process - its not something you can animate without nor is it something that you use to anime exclusively. Here's an old video going over how Lab Zero animated Skullgirls (and most of their project moving forward too).
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
With how frequently the characters in Darkstalkers contort or expand shape for their attacks in a heavily stylized / exaggerated fashion, never mind the quirky mannerisms the lion's share of them tend to express, I just can't see any other established team do the original aesthetic any justice if outsourcing it ever were to happen. A 3D engine would also make it even harder to properly replicate the elasticity Darkstalkers is known for, ruling out Arc even further. Gehenna shows that Lab Zero already has a taste for stages akin to Fetus of God as well, even though that kind of background look was admittedly the exception in Skullgirls.
Capcom has readily demonstrated these past few years they indeed cannot be trusted following up on their older franchises, much less a niche fighting game.
Jumpy animation as a result of using tradition animation where the character get a completely new drawing with each frame, Skullgirls uses this a lot and it's part of the game's look but since they're not recycling a lot of stuff from the previous frame some inconsistencies happens like some limps(or shading or outlines) not maintaining the exact same proportions between animation frame which create the "jumpy" look:
This works for the "noir" setting because it reminds me of the animation of other cartoons with noir setting like Roger Rabbit or Droopy Master Detective which also had the jumpy look, that and jumpy animation generally is associated with old western classic animations which gives the game an old/classic 40s-50s cartoon feel which is also part of the noir thing.
Now if you look at Darkstalker's animation, it's mostly limited animation, they wont redraw stuff between frames unless there's a big change and for the most part it's only small edits and not redrawing stuff from scratch, this help in maintaining a consistent proportions between animation frame:
Even characters like Pyron, who have a lot of unique frames with less recycling looks nowhere near as jumpy as SG's characters:
When I say "I don't want to see DS in SG style", I'm not talking about SG silliness and over the top moves, characters, special effects, etc... I'm just saying I don't want to see DS made in SG engine using the same animation techniques SG was made by.
Thanks!
RockTurtle
Member
nice post, it's sad given the current year and how the current development scene is, it'd be hard to find a major company that would dedicate that level of detail as LZ without going 3d model-in-2d space.
so for now i think Lab Zero would be the only ones to do the series justice with the animations they are proficient in. it's one of the few that make sense, so it'd just have to be a bitter pill to swallow. Sprite work is probably dead on a major title sense.
unless Vanillaware suddenly made a fighting game :O
Edit: what I'm, talking about is "limited animation", sorry.
I'm not sure Keyframe is the right word for what you're describing then, Sayad. And they usually review frames for those inconsistencies, but they become more obvious at higher resolutions.
And I always felt that DS was one of the least anime looking fighters. I mean sure the Japanese origin is very clear but it's no where near as stereotypical anime as say Arc characters are.
And it's kinda funny that you say SG is too western while when it first launched some called it too anime, lol.
The last major company to use traditional sprites, SNK, payed dearly both literally and metaphorically for using sprites, and those were only at 480p. It's dead, Jim.
Vanillaware doesn't use sprites though, not even traditional hand drawn animation. They use puppet animation.
And I always felt that DS was one of the least anime looking fighters. I mean sure the Japanese origin is very clear but it's no where near as stereotypical anime as say Arc characters are.
And it's kinda funny that you say SG is too western while when it first launched some called it too anime, lol.
The last major company to use traditional sprites, SNK, payed dearly both literally and metaphorically for using sprites, and those were only at 480p. It's dead, Jim.
Vanillaware doesn't use sprites though, not even traditional hand drawn animation. They use puppet animation.
Ahh, fuck! I was thinking "limited animation". >_<
I have some editing to do.
People say a lot of things, would you say its art style resemble anime more than it does western cartoons/comics?
There will never be a new Darkstalkers game because nobody is going to foot the bill to make one. I'm sure Lab Zero could if you gave them the money upfront, but then it wouldn't be Darkstalkers. It'll probably be Skullboys or something to that extent. It wouldn't be about doing the series justice, but it would be done the way they see fit in their art style which is polarizing.
You also have a company in SNK Playmore switching from the sprites that they've spent alot of time, money and effort making over to 3D models to get KOF XIV out the door, so the artform is as dead as Darkstalkers is.
Vanillaware doesn't use sprites and their games are very basic, so they wouldn't do a good job either.
Have you not seen Anime Twitter before?
You also have a company in SNK Playmore switching from the sprites that they've spent alot of time, money and effort making over to 3D models to get KOF XIV out the door, so the artform is as dead as Darkstalkers is.
Vanillaware doesn't use sprites and their games are very basic, so they wouldn't do a good job either.
Have you not seen Anime Twitter before?
notworksafe
Member
i'm ashamed i made this thread
Vanilla Ice
Karsticles
Member
Of course not, just laughing at how some people see what they want to see with some games. It's still far from what's on the edge of western art style, which I think of as Mortal Kombat.
You shouldn't be ashamed of your deeds. I mean who could have expected that members like Shin and Yams would override this thread?
We need you!
Can we talk about how awesome Jedah's Guard Cancel is?
My favorite move is his S.HP. That smug grin afterwards is so cool.
Lostconfused
Member
Shirking moderating duties for video games? The community thread life.
What he says. It may seem easy but I've seen that American players gc a lot less than Japanese. They do it a lot on single hits or first hits, which is definitely not easy.
hitsugi
Member
Definitely no one.
notworksafe
Member
Sad to hear that, curious know what people would suggest to make Injustice 2 a better game.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Would love to see them distance themselves even more from MK, in both gameplay and art-style. Wouldn't mind an airdasher with teams and assists, whatever make superheroes abilities shine more.
But he's a magnet for off-topic. Things got even worse when his waifu arrived.
Give Superman Sentinel style flight, please.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/283/G028399/20151222170/
I knew Woshige was on the SFV dev team, but he's the Battle Planner director?
I knew Woshige was on the SFV dev team, but he's the Battle Planner director?
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