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Fighting Game Headquarters |3| [Cinematic Title Expansion Coming Soon]

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D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Infinite said:
art said that? i havent really been following any of this stuff
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He didn't say that explicitly over this SFV stuff. Half of that is from Mike Ross from over the years. But that's the heart of the issue.

It isn't "why are you treating these players like gods?"
It's "why aren't you treating American players like gods instead?"


The specific reason why Sabin is getting so much heat now is just the discord stuff and expressing an "us vs them" sentiment. Like when Kelvin Jeon tried to share Claw tech with Nemo and got scolded over it.
 
H

Hex

Banned
What came off most of all is how fucking rude Art was.
Sitting there on his phone, I mean I know getting bodied that fast left alot of extra time but still talk to your hosts and engage.
And he interrupted alot, and pushing the E-Sports thing.
He does not and can not understand that Japan does not give a shit about "e-sports" and while they will make money off of it the reason they are as good as they are is because they love what they are doing and they love the game and play for the game first.
Art is about money first and it shows.
He may beat some players over there, but Daigo, Momochi, Tokido, Kazunoku, Fuudo will all bury him on a regular basis.
 
T

ThatCrazyGuy

Member
Hmm. Tbh, he didn't come off rude to me. It all just seemed awkward. That's all. Art seemed stiff and nervous, nobody looking at each other, Sim getting bodied. Bad combo.
 
H

Hyun Sai

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
It's more than that. It's the accusation that the audience of the west supporting players from out of country is *wrong*. We're their audience. There should be donation drives for American players to go to events, not Japanese/Poongko, etc. Rooting for unknown player from Asia who rarely goes to events over established Pro Gamer who wins all the time, Justin Wong, is *wrong*
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I don't think taking sponsorised players like Justin Wong is a good example... I believe the west supported asian players (and to be fair, unknown to who doesn't follow their scene) who couldn't afford the trip to America, no ? Unless Art is talking about himself...
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Isn't the difference between American and Japanese/Korean players really overstated in the first place? Not in terms of skill but culturally and how they grind the game.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Hyun Sai said:
I don't think taking sponsorised players like Justin Wong is a good example... I believe the west supported asian players (and to be fair, unknown to who doesn't follow their scene) who couldn't afford the trip to America, no ? Unless Art is talking about himself...
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It's not a hypothetical. Im referring to when Gamerbee the unknown player from Taiwan beat Justin, who at the time was as dominant as Infiltration is right now at SF5

A lot of American top players thought that was wrong. Rooting for this random gamerbee guy over JUSTIN WONG. you should be supporting your own players.

Same shit years later. Just replace Gamerbee with Tonpy.
 
S

Swarna

Member
call_kotaku said:
Isn't the difference between American and Japanese/Korean players really overstated in the first place? Not in terms of skill but culturally and how they grind the game.
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Infiltration specifically has been known to train 10h/day in training mode after work, Korean e-sports style. Don't know of anyone else who stated as such.

But I've looked at Art's stream from time to time and he just auto-pilots online players for hours on end. It's efficient in terms of points, especially for Sim, but it's not surprising that his offline performance is not in correlation to the amount of time he puts in. Also, r/ kappa pulls no punches with regards to people who don't have themselves together and happen to talk shit.

Honestly just depends on how likable someone is whether they will get sponsored or not. People love Smug, they love Snake, they love Rog, they love Poongko and unfortunately they don't like Art.
 
H

Hyun Sai

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
It's not a hypothetical. Im referring to when Gamerbee the unknown player from Taiwan beat Justin, who at the time was as dominant as Infiltration is right now at SF5

A lot of American top players thought that was wrong. Rooting for this random gamerbee guy over JUSTIN WONG. you should be supporting your own players.

Same shit years later. Just replace Gamerbee with Tonpy.
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I don't think Justin Wong was dominant in any way in SFIV era, but I know the like of him, Ortiz, Fchamp were seen as assholes at the time, so it causes me no surprise people wanted the underdog to win.

US players will perhaps understand that a likeable personnality and charisma is a nice plus upon talent if you want people to root for you, not all these random acid salty tweets whenever there is a "problem" like people sharing techs.

Personnally, even as french, I don't even root for the french players, but for the players I like, that's all.
 
N

Nuu

Banned
This whole region shit reminds me of ten years ago when people got defensive when others crapped on Marvel vs Capcom 2 because it was "America's game" and all of the American FGC should support it otherwise they are doing a disservice to American players.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Oh I root for my favorite players alright.

My favorite players just happen to be American.


Anyway, I hope Dieminion would come out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to show the world his Guyelle already.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Swarna said:
Infiltration specifically has been known to train 10h/day in training mode after work, Korean e-sports style. Don't know of anyone else who stated as such.

But I've looked at Art's stream from time to time and he just auto-pilots online players for hours on end. It's efficient in terms of points, especially for Sim, but it's not surprising that his offline performance is not in correlation to the amount of time he puts in. Also, r/ kappa pulls no punches with regards to people who don't have themselves together and happen to talk shit.

Honestly just depends on how likable someone is whether they will get sponsored or not. People love Smug, they love Snake, they love Rog, they love Poongko and unfortunately they don't like Art.
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Yeah but that's just infiltration, and there aren't any other Korean players at his level so I can't really say it's a cultural thing. You can also argue that Korean dominance in esports games is due mostly to the support structure and player houses, since just playing for 12 hours a day doesn't automatically make someone good (or else NA wouldn't be awful at every competitive game).

Hyun Sai said:
I don't think Justin Wong was dominant in any way in SFIV era, but I know the like of him, Ortiz, Fchamp were seen as assholes at the time, so it causes me no surprise people wanted the underdog to win.

US players will perhaps understand that a likeable personnality and charisma is a nice plus upon talent if you want people to root for you, not all these random acid salty tweets whenever there is a "problem" like people sharing techs.

Personnally, even as french, I don't even root for the french players, but for the players I like, that's all.
Click to expand...

I don't think Japanese players are necessarily more humble or polite, western fans just don't have as much unfiltered access to them due to the language barrier. I feel like that's the core of the frustration players like Art feel about this situation -- people think Japan is better at these games because of some sort of high-mindedness that westerners can't achieve, when really it's because a lot of really good players live within 30 minutes of each other and get to play all the time.

Just an example would be Fuudo completely bodying Art after showing on stream for 15 minutes why that matchup is really bad for Mika. He probably had a chance to grind vs a Sim that was atleast as good as Art, but Arturo wouldn't have the same opportunity to grind vs a Mika of Fuudo's level regularly.
 
H

Hyun Sai

Member
Heeh, just saw that K-Brad apparently shat on the Ken trinity (Julio / Chris T / Brent), so the mentality is definitely evolving for the better.
 
ShinMaruku

ShinMaruku

Member
I root for nobody. I just like the good play. However I will just laugh at the laughable usa usa chants because USA ain't winning shit.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
call_kotaku said:
I don't think Japanese players are necessarily more humble or polite, western fans just don't have as much unfiltered access to them due to the language barrier. I feel like that's the core of the frustration players like Art feel about this situation -- people think Japan is better at these games because of some sort of high-mindedness that westerners can't achieve, when really it's because a lot of really good players live within 30 minutes of each other and get to play all the time.

Just an example would be Fuudo completely bodying Art after showing on stream for 15 minutes why that matchup is really bad for Mika. He probably had a chance to grind vs a Sim that was atleast as good as Art, but Arturo wouldn't have the same opportunity to grind vs a Mika of Fuudo's level regularly.
Click to expand...

That's purely an assumption on your part. You think every Japanese player is next door neighbors with each other? Or are good friends with each other?

Also, you must not think much of Sabin if you think a random jp sim player would suffice.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
That's purely an assumption on your part. You think every Japanese player is next door neighbors with each other? Or are good friends with each other?

Also, you must not think much of Sabin if you think a random jp sim player would suffice.
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How's the geography of Japan an assumption?

And Fuudo demonstrated he knew the matchup better than Art did, I don't see how that implies Art's at the level of a random Japanese sim.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Isn't one of the main reason Art got so much heat for this is what he said after Poongko got sponsored and how he deserve it so much more(despite having just as bad of an offline record), he complained about it so much that even Mike Ross put him on blast for it on his CPT show.
https://youtu.be/2dv0fS7-Gws?t=27m
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
.

I'm not even going to touch the geography thing. That's some "why don't norcal players visit WNF" level of disconnect there.
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So "I don't know who Fuudo grinded with for the matchup" becomes "lol Art is at the level of a Japanese random"? I don't understand what you're trying to argue with here.

And plenty of people have mentioned that back in the arcade days all the people who wanted to play vs the highest level players in any given city knew which spot to go to every night, and Japanese cities are much more densely populated than anything in North America, even without accounting for how much better their public transport is. Japan's advantage owes a huge deal to how close the players live to each other in the larger cities, which is why some were surprised when Asian players like pepeday gamerbee or infiltration managed to be so good without a huge support group.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
call_kotaku said:
So "I don't know who Fuudo grinded with for the matchup" becomes "lol Art is at the level of a Japanese random"? I don't understand what you're trying to argue with here.

And plenty of people have mentioned that back in the arcade days all the people who wanted to play vs the highest level players in any given city knew which spot to go to every night, and Japanese cities are much more densely populated than anything in North America, even without accounting for how much better their public transport is. Japan's advantage owes a huge deal to how close the players live to each other in the larger cities, which is why some were surprised when Asian players like pepeday gamerbee or infiltration managed to be so good without a huge support group.
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I asked you

You think every Japanese player is next door neighbors with each other? Or are good friends with each other?

You could have just said yes.
 
N

Nuu

Banned
mbpm1 said:
Is it?
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N4G85Lf.png
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
I asked you

You think every Japanese player is next door neighbors with each other? Or are good friends with each other?

You could have just said yes.
Click to expand...

How does "there are hundreds of top players in Tokyo that live within an hour of each other" become "they're all next door neighbors" and how does "top players get to play each other regularly" become "they're all good friends with each other?"

I don't see what your argument is or why you're being deliberately obtuse. Unless this you're another ZTS alt in which case I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time.
 
C

CO_Andy

Member
ANGRY NOW

Art should really rethink his training regimen. Even if he gets a free ride to Capcom Cup thanks to his spot on the leaderboard he'll likely just get exposed again at Capcom Cup.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
The vague geographical convenience narrative reminds me a lot of when Luffy won Evo. Talks about better internet, players have easier access to play each other, yata yata. All theory. Nothing actually concrete

Seriously. People were arguing that it was better to be a fighting game player in France than the US because they couldn't hold that L.

Nevermind the constant talk from Daigo and Fuudo about how Dhalsim is a rare character and that Sabin/Fchamp were among the players they feared the most. Nevermind that Sabin plays against Andre and Rainbow Impact, and Marn, a better performing Mika than Fuudo, taught Sabin about the character. There's this fictional sim player thats right at his level that gave Fuudo the edge. Thank god for the shinkansen.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
so basically art got beat bad and people were shitting on him cause he shit on the japanese? people call this drama? smh
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
The vague geographical convenience narrative reminds me a lot of when Luffy won Evo. Talks about better internet, players have easier access to play each other, yata yata. All theory. Nothing actually concrete

Seriously. People were arguing that it was better to be a fighting game player in France than the US because they couldn't hold that L.

Nevermind the constant talk from Daigo and Fuudo about how Dhalsim is a rare character and that Sabin/Fchamp were among the players they feared the most. Nevermind that Sabin plays against Andre and Rainbow Impact, and Marn, a better performing Mika than Fuudo, taught Sabin about the character. There's this fictional sim player thats right at his level that gave Fuudo the edge. Thank god for the shinkansen.
Click to expand...
How's some cultural bushido bullshit any more concrete than actual documented history? In case you're legitimately misunderstanding me I'm not making excuses for Art's (or the US's) performance or his actions, but people shouldn't have the impression that Japanese players don't get toxic or salty or that they're better purely because of their work ethic.

And at Final Round Art lost to Zaferino's Mika and Xsk Samurai's Ryu, he doesn't just get bopped by Fuudo and Daigo.
Professor Beef said:
...what the fuck is the argument about anymore
Click to expand...

We're just waiting for someone to say Martha
 
jediyoshi

jediyoshi

Member
BakedYams said:
so basically art got beat bad and people were shitting on him cause he shit on the japanese? people call this drama? smh
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Nah, people have been shitting on art especially in the last few weeks, everything in Japan has just perfectly aligned with it hitting critical mass.
 
N

Nuu

Banned
Is there even a gap between top tier US players and Japanese ones? Looking at tournament rankings there isn't that big of a disparity.
 
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