There's a reason why one of the pro strats is double winston, double mccree, double support
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There's a reason why one of the pro strats is double winston, double mccree, double support
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
lewd
skLaFarebear
Member
Marie main huh?
irfaanator
Banned
Just talk shit. Works for so many people in here
Lostconfused
Member
For what definition of nice?
She doesn't hold back
Kalamari
Member
Maybe she doesn't like charge characters.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
boooooooooooo
Professor Beef
Banned
I've been playing a lot of Pokken lately. I don't really have all that much to say about it though. The matchmaking is so quick and the damage is high so it's easy to get a lot of games in a small period of time online and offline. I'm enjoying it a lot especially since I found a character with a moveset that fits me perfectly. If anyone ever wants to play let me know.
also, the 8 frames of delay in sfv thing got me thinking when playing other games with built in delay and how it affects them. Pokken has like 6 or 7 iirc and I know Smash 4 has around the same amount. Just makes me wonder how certain interactions would play out if there was less.
also, the 8 frames of delay in sfv thing got me thinking when playing other games with built in delay and how it affects them. Pokken has like 6 or 7 iirc and I know Smash 4 has around the same amount. Just makes me wonder how certain interactions would play out if there was less.
irfaanator
Banned
yea for smash 4 and melee I believe
sixteen-bit
Member
I dunno about skipping pools but i've seen tourneys do seeding in the sf4 era
I play Blanka in ST
It was Genesis 3, and they only pre-advanced the top 64-ranked Melee players (by the MIOM rankings) to Day 2.
G3 was going to do the same for the top 32-ranked Smash 4 players, but the TOs eventually abandoned it for that game, since the Smash 4 community didn't have its own MIOM-style extensive global rankings project at the time.
I remember when Genesis 3 announced their plan to pre-advance the top players to Day 2, the Melee community was cool with it, the Smash 4 community thought it was too early in the game and community's life to appropriately implement, and the FGC absolutely loathed the idea.
Apex 2015 also pre-advanced 16 players directly into the Top 48 bracket for Melee Singles, but in that case, those 16 players earned that right by acquiring the most points on a "Road to Apex"-style tour of tournaments. (See: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/Apex_2015/Melee/Apex_Points) To my recollection, nobody complained about it then, but they might've been too busy trying to keep the roof from collapsing.
I feel like it's reasonable to talk about why players can be seeded out of pools. I think it's reasonable for Leffen to say going through what he does at every event is super draining. Saying that the former should happen because of the latter is a recipe for disaster on twitter, especially in the FGC.
shaowebb
Member
God do I miss smothering folks with Bane after a knockdown. Please let the Injustice 2 announcement happen soon.
Who did everyone here have the most fun playing as in Injustice BTW?
For me:
That order too. 3rd is tight though with Batgirl coming in reaaaaaaaaal close. Them flying bats and teleports.
Who did everyone here have the most fun playing as in Injustice BTW?
For me:
- Bane-armor for days, and ate every wakeup in the game. Ruins every bracket.
- Hawkgirl-Learned to counterpick Superman. Loved because shes everything Green Arrow didnt get to be.
- Shazam-Learned after elbow patch gave him a great starter and made his combos so fun.
That order too. 3rd is tight though with Batgirl coming in reaaaaaaaaal close. Them flying bats and teleports.
Doomsday
Body splash
Shoulder rush
Ground pound. Ground pound. Ground pound etc etc
So good
Will have to skip the first year and get the Komplete edition later with fixed online and full roster -_-
NRS cycle has been known
Sgtpepper89
Member
Now when the sun is going summermode, ive been out on the balcony playing Blazblue on the vita. Working on the storymode atm and it seem to be an ridiculus amount of different endings to get 100%.. This game sure makes me realise how barebones SFV is.
RIP random japanese trophy list tho..
RIP random japanese trophy list tho..
GL, Doomsday and Grundy for me.
The idea that smash is more receptive to ideas is pretty clear though. I like exploring new ideas like alternative bracket and seeding structures, so I don't like the idea of immediately screaming about it. Does that mean I just want top player floated out of pools? Nah. Qualifying type structure in a scene like Smash that has the extensive stat tracking they do? Sounds reasonable to at least look at, esp considering they've tried it before.
Karsticles
Member
We all know pools are draining, but why should one player get to play without having to worry about the drain?
Oh I do not agree with the bolded part at all lol.
New bracket or seeding methods are worthy things to look into, but this is so transparent in it's purpose it is silly. If changes are to be made, they better benefit the whole community, not just the precious few.
Already got you beat there!so we should all be daigo dickriders is what you mean
DaiGOAT should never get to skip pools, though.
Shouta
Member
It doesn't make sense to do an open tournament that has automatic advancement based on points/qualifying. That kind of defeats the purpose of an open tournament, IMO. If they want to do that seed/qualifying, then doing it like Capcom Cup makes more sense. Mixing the two is strange.
Depends. Alternative structures are things where a set of invited players (usually would be the op seeds by a large margin) are set out of pools with their seeds already and the open bracket qualifies into those seeds. The way it works now, is that the top seeded players will already be put up against the statistically least likely players to disrupt this from happening. It opens the door for those players to do other things while at the event for various reasons. It's not like they didn't earn a seed by being top 8 at literally every event they've been to in the past few years anyways.
This is actually something that has happened before in other sports/esports. It's not something you'd do at every open bracket event, duh, but for other specific types of events that want an alternative structure it actually isn't that farfetched. Open bracket events logically will have an end point and things like this are worth talking about to figure out what happens next.
I know Leffen's tweet comes off as "I'm a tired bitch and I just don't want to have to deal with pools" but there is some other stuff going on where it makes sense to take your main attractions into account. Tournament structure has been built around top players for years whether you like to recognize that or not, and figuring out their place post open bracket is fine.
What if there is a persistent point ladder like the MIOM ladder? Could you use that to have invite spots in an invite that is going to end up having a capped bracket anyways? It makes no sense to do this in an uncapped open bracket, to me anyways, but ya know, things change.
shaowebb
Member
Niiiiice. Got a lot of Doomsday love in here. Character was so fun to rush folks down with. He was scary in the right hands. And Grundy still holds the clutchest victory in the game's history.
Tyrant was a hero that day and then some.
Probably a reality in the future if events become larger but there are some issues that should be addressed.
*If say top 64 automatically qualify out of pool... does that mean that the person who is 65 has to go through all of pools like a pleb? That's a massive difference between rank 64 and rank 65. I guess rank 65 player is still the #1 seeded player in pools but they still have to play all of their pool matches.
*This is very likely to create a "rich get richer" environment. One player could go 4-2 in many events despite not making it out of pools (or qualifying out of pools in winners then going 0-2 right after getting out of pools) and another top 64 player can keep going 0-2 yet still more or less retain that spot because he's guaranteed a minimum placing because technically he placed out of pools. Plus if they use some ELO system where you don't lose as much points/ranks if you lost to a top player then that means it's easier for these top players to retain their high ranks despite bad performances.
*The counter to point two is that win rate matters more than where you lose in despite where you are in the bracket. This has the reverse effect where you get punished harder for losing against higher quality players vs lower quality players. A person who does alright in pools but never makes it out of pools can easily be bumped up to the point where they could qualify out of pools in the future vs another player who is top 64 but then goes 0-2 and gets bumped down to pool requirement.
*This system is going to make it so that less effort/resource is placed on pools because top players aren't playing in it. That means less likely that pools get streamed as well as general lack of excitement around them. Smaller problems are more likely to be over looked when it's happening to joe nobody vs a top player.
Overall this system favors a more E sports type scene vs a FGC grassroot type scene. One of the major appeals of FGC events is that you can enter an event and could potentially play against Justin Wong as your FIRST match. That doesn't happen in E sports much... for many E sports events I have to go through dozens of smaller tournaments/qualifiers to even have a chance at playing the top player(s) in a particular E sports game. I have to grind Ladder to high ranks, do well at smaller tournaments then do well at qualifier to even think of playing against Kolento in Hearthstone. There's appeal to this too of course as when the major events go down you know it's the best of the best there with less chance of total blow outs on display.
*If say top 64 automatically qualify out of pool... does that mean that the person who is 65 has to go through all of pools like a pleb? That's a massive difference between rank 64 and rank 65. I guess rank 65 player is still the #1 seeded player in pools but they still have to play all of their pool matches.
*This is very likely to create a "rich get richer" environment. One player could go 4-2 in many events despite not making it out of pools (or qualifying out of pools in winners then going 0-2 right after getting out of pools) and another top 64 player can keep going 0-2 yet still more or less retain that spot because he's guaranteed a minimum placing because technically he placed out of pools. Plus if they use some ELO system where you don't lose as much points/ranks if you lost to a top player then that means it's easier for these top players to retain their high ranks despite bad performances.
*The counter to point two is that win rate matters more than where you lose in despite where you are in the bracket. This has the reverse effect where you get punished harder for losing against higher quality players vs lower quality players. A person who does alright in pools but never makes it out of pools can easily be bumped up to the point where they could qualify out of pools in the future vs another player who is top 64 but then goes 0-2 and gets bumped down to pool requirement.
*This system is going to make it so that less effort/resource is placed on pools because top players aren't playing in it. That means less likely that pools get streamed as well as general lack of excitement around them. Smaller problems are more likely to be over looked when it's happening to joe nobody vs a top player.
Overall this system favors a more E sports type scene vs a FGC grassroot type scene. One of the major appeals of FGC events is that you can enter an event and could potentially play against Justin Wong as your FIRST match. That doesn't happen in E sports much... for many E sports events I have to go through dozens of smaller tournaments/qualifiers to even have a chance at playing the top player(s) in a particular E sports game. I have to grind Ladder to high ranks, do well at smaller tournaments then do well at qualifier to even think of playing against Kolento in Hearthstone. There's appeal to this too of course as when the major events go down you know it's the best of the best there with less chance of total blow outs on display.
Karsticles
Member
Wouldn't this guarantee the spot permanently, since they're being seeded out of pools?
Really? What sports (not esports) have done this before? I've never heard of such a thing.
On the other hand, upsets happen all the time. Every year at Evo, a few unknown names take down top players in various games. Those unknown names don't always make it out of pools, though. Denying this possibility damages the credibility of the event, in my mind.
call_kotaku
Member
It just reminds me of how MLG handled Starcraft for the first couple of years, where they used to do an FGC-style huge open bracket but eventually they added an invitational bracket for top players where their placement determines how far they get seeded into the final bracket. The justification is that esports viewers don't really want to watch a bunch of nobodies play each other during pools day, and top players aren't interested in spending 10 hours stomping scrubs before "their" tournament starts.
Eventually they did away with the open bracket entirely and I wonder if Melee will come to the same conclusion.
Eventually they did away with the open bracket entirely and I wonder if Melee will come to the same conclusion.
Every single actual sports ever?
You think I can just go up and sign myself up for Wimbledon then get placed in a bracket with Djokovic? Hell no.. LMAO!
Actually they wouldn't even let me sign up for it.
Most sports aren't even actual "open" tournaments. They state stuff like Tennis champions like "US Open" are open but they aren't actually open to the general public... they are open to players who are certified professional tennis players.
Capcom responds to Noel Brown incident. Capcom is also okay with banning him from tournaments.
http://capcomprotour.com/capcom-response-combo-breaker-2016-incident/
irfaanator
Banned
yea I feel the same
Karsticles
Member
IMO, do an invitational or don't, but don't mix practices between the two.
Okay, they aren't open tournaments, but no one gets a free pass to the playoffs, right?
What the hell is a Wimbledon?
Ish. If they perform poorly in their out of pool spot it is pretty likely that their seed position falls. If it falls hard enough, then they lose the seed out of pools to whoever passed them up. Dahbomb is right though, it's hard to lose a seed considering the whole point of having a seed is that it makes your bracket easier.
As far as other sports go, I just mean alternative to the bracket systems are already in place. Instead of being an open bracket at an event, players have to qualify through multiple open bracket events to earn a spot while others get invited or rreturn from previous placings. Again look at what Dahbomb said.
Upsets happen, they can happen after a qualifier bracket too or at any stage of a tournament. Advancing a seed reduces the chances, yeah, but it's not a huge deal if the weight of that seed is already as massive as it is at most smash events.
I only talk about this because, yeah, I see a future where open brackets aren't going to be viable all the way through. Doesn't mean large bracket events will go away, but sustaining them the way we do now as growth happens and the viewers become more important is impossible. Why other esports orgs have gone the way they've gone. Basically the tournament will be what happens after pools, pools will just be a qualifier. Hell, in some esports orgs you have to qualify in multiple events just to get into pools because so many people wanna enter something that can only have so much time.
Name these sports with playoffs. Realize how those players even start playing in the pre-playoffs and then realize that you can't even get to that level without a lot of steps before. Those aren't open tournaments either.
And LMAO @ not knowing Wimbledon. It's like the EVO of Tennis.
Many video games and specifically fighting games are actually a unique case where they are 100% completely open to the general public. And I guess that's what makes them interesting and appealing to many. So I see both sides of this.
Karsticles
Member
Well, I can't say I'm in favor of that kind of change, though something like 10 qualifier events for a season would be interesting. I like the current situation Capcom has created with the Capcom Cup.
LOL @ Tennis.
Um, last I checked, which was a while ago, the NBA, NFL, and NHL all have seasons followed by playoffs based on season performance.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
Tennis was the logical sports comparison to fighting games because it's not a team sport as it is 1 v 1. There aren't team franchises or try outs to get into teams which changes up the dynamic a lot. I could've brought up boxing but I don't know much about boxing compared to tennis.
As far as NBA/NFL/NHL go, those are only "open" to a select few franchise teams of big cities. Just to be even labeled as a professional team you have to go through so much to get started. It's not like I can round up my high school friends and make a basketball team to compete in the NBA in the seasons. Hell I can't even compete against colleges with my home brew team. And I am not talking about skill gap here, I am talking about actual rules and stuff.
So even before seasons there's a giant hurdle the general public has to go through.
Karsticles
Member
Perhaps you aren't hearing me, but I said there's a season before the playoffs, which is the correlate of pool play.
It makes sense that pro sports leagues have entry rules, because they want to sell stadium tickets. You can't even charge $8.95 for a FGC event without it becoming a meme. You have to build a sport up before making demands of its player and fanbase. You can't make the demands to build up the sport - that doesn't work.
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