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Fighting Game Headquarters |3| [Cinematic Title Expansion Coming Soon]
- Thread starter notworksafe
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.la1n
Member
Ah, thanks. Understandable but yeah $40 isn't bad considering what I'm paying just to get there and stay.
Haha, this gif ftw.
Holy Order Sol
Member
At least this time it'll be much more tolerable than the Shit theme of SF4 training stage.
call_kotaku
Member
the barest of bones
MiniBossBattle
Member
Please, no more training stage.
It could have easily customizable music selection and I still would not be happy about it.
no tho
shaowebb
Member
I'm actually making maps right now for one of those. I have intended a lot of stuff for stages, but if there's one thing I've learned its this...fuck stages that have presentation at the cost of gameplay. Trying to play MKX on PC on that fucking rain soaked lightning reflecting temple as Raiden vs Shinnok is enough to tell me when you got to say NO to form over functionality.
If I ever, so help me Q, put in a stage that interferes and causes framerate issues or lag that fucker is GONE. No one should be forced to play a fighting game where you can't choose any stage or suffer during the match. Its just plain wrong. If it means less animation, less particle and lighting pretty do-hickies then fine. Its cute and all, but its never cute playing a shitty round due to a stage.
Feel free to punch me in the balls if I fuck up something this simple.
I don't even think it's that -- I think people want to watch it somewhere closer to where casuals and sessions are going to be. I know last year I watched the UMvC3 and SF4 finals in Jiyuna's anime suite and that worked out damn well. It's a much bigger concern this year given the distance between the two venues (to the point where I'm debating if I should spend Sunday night at Mandalay Bay -- but I bring a bunch of equipment to Evo and I really don't want to haul that in and out twice).
I think the arena ticket prices are fine -- I just hope they let people come in and out at some point or else the plan of "show up for the early anime game, go to lunch and do random other shit, come back for the final couple of games" just explodes. That would mean I would have to decide between seeing Xrd:R finals live and eating lunch. :<
To be fair, last year between the official and side streams there were about 15 streams going. Evo has more content going than... well, any event of its kind, really.
For fucks sake, can Capcom actually do some performance profiling of their games one in their existence??? Ugh.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Just no more grids dood.
Stages and locations evoke a time and setting and mood. I am also working on level art right now too.
Stages and locations evoke a time and setting and mood. I am also working on level art right now too.
No tho
Measuring grids and no distractions and years of it being used is in their bones
For real
MiniBossBattle
Member
Let me guess. TE1.
da bess.
street fighter, not grid fighter.
I said the shitty ones. Keep that one. None of the other characters in that stage pull their weight
DryEyeRelief
Member
Valle was curious about the airport stage and Joe was complaining about Brazil. Anything else? I had to leave.
Have you tried joy2key?
da bess.
street fighter, not grid fighter.
Only allowing stages to be banned during sets would stop the grid nation
And many are on their side
sixteen-bit
Member
shaowebb
Member
This helps a lot actually.
"Ooh, but they make it feel like there is a world full of people and that you are a part of that world."
Yeah, hey counterpoint its reality calling and no one feels like part of anything at all when stages induce lag and framerate issues because you wanted to fully model, rig, texture and light a half dozen or so background characters oohing and ahhing at a laggy fight.
Grrrrr...pet peeve. Big one. Big big pet peeve right now. Its not hard to design an interesting stage without having to resort to explosions or a ton of bystanders. This wasn't a deal in 2d because it could technically all be a part of the same frames even though the file sizes may bloat a bit at load but not at runtime. In 3d, it can be an issue trying to design stages in this manner. Truth is you just need to GET GOOD at researching home design and laying out stage architecture. There is a lot you can accomplish with simple linework, angles, and shapes. Hell theres a lot you can accomplish with simple shitcanned video playing on a single object in the background if you want stuff! I've seen some things done where they'd animate a whole scene for stuff, and then render it out as video and run it on loop on areas of the background. Parallax can fuck with that on stages that curve to allow more profile than side view of objects but its a trick that works in a good variety of designs.
Seriously...look up some architecture, grab some travel magazines, look up some paintings and shit and start decorating walls with overhangs, street lamps, Cars, stair cases (so fucking gorgeous and so little file size), and any number of other things. Fuck, columns, ornate windows, and Ironwork designs on gates are gorgeous and take up fuck all in size compared to a crowd of zombie faced mimes.
Guh...I gotta stop. It huuuuuuuuurts to go on. Fact is, there's no excuse for not thinking a stage through from a functional standpoint before modeling it. Count your light sources, particle emitters, rigged models, and hard surfaces and any transitional parts to any animations. Set a baseline limit and try to UNDERSHOOT it every time on how many things you got and even then test like a mother fucker to see that it actually works. No game should force you to skip stages for good matches. Its our job as designers to realize this before we make players suffer through our artwork to try and play the fucking game around our bid to stand out and make something "clever" at the detriment of gameplay.
Yep!
Xpadder, to no avail. The PC recognizes it, but doesn't detect inputs. Looked it up and apparently it's a PCB issue. Hm....
KidA Seven
Member
TE1 uses a old uhci that isn't supported by newer chipsets. It worked for some, but not for the majority. If Joy 2 key, or x360ce doesn't work, then your only option would to mod it, or buy a usb hub of some kind that supported the TE1 properly. I sold mine because I didn't want to deal with any of that non sense.
Yeah. It was more of a curiosity than anything else. Probably not worth bothering.
shaowebb
Member
Oh man, you have no idea. My wife asked what I was typing and I think I only just now stopped ranting to take a breath. There's no excuse. Its literally a designer's job to know these basic things you put at risk by using Michael Bay style thought processes of using too much flash and flare over functional form. Large animations, exploding models, particle heavy shit, too much light on too many types of surfaces trying to have light absorption, reflection and refraction be calculated at runtime...these are HUGE things that eat up framerate and induce lag. Its not even advanced knowledge. Its basic! Its like the first thing you learn when you do baby's first 3d render.
Anyone who resorts to the shit I said instead of simply designing up more structured settings is either completely ignorant to how serious framerate and lag issues are in this genre or a complete attention whore just handing out ideas to the animation team who doesn't care and hopes that when the modelers make their designs in 3d the prettiness will garner them some more attention in the studio. Seriously...if you do 2d its cool, but ask your 3d partner's in the work place before you pitch your designs what these ideas may cause at runtime in terms of framerate and lag issues and redesign around the feedback. If you're the 2d designer AND 3d modeler though you got no excuse for pushing that into anyone's lap. You should know better.
This is literally one of my biggest pet peeves. I still have nightmares bench marking MKX on the damned rainy temple.
Also...stop lighting stages on fire. You can't see shit during the match. Too much noise.
DryEyeRelief
Member
No balance patches for the game until after Capcom Cup 2016? or no balance patches until whenever?
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Dude you don't need to write a novel.
shaowebb
Member
*shaowebb can't keep it short. News at 11*
Lol. Story of my life. I overly analyze everything.
I mean I definitely feel you on the topic. Hugely distracting stages are a bad thing for fighting games. Stages where you can camouflage characters (MVC3 nightime Harrier stage) and stages that lag due to too much stuff are also bad.
I would just rather have a painted still at the background or some sky boxes. I guess for 3D games you need a bit more to have your bearing in a stage.
Only issue is that training mode like stages don't impress casuals and they don't make for good promo material.
I would just rather have a painted still at the background or some sky boxes. I guess for 3D games you need a bit more to have your bearing in a stage.
Only issue is that training mode like stages don't impress casuals and they don't make for good promo material.
MiniBossBattle
Member
I agree with Shaowebb and Dahbomb.
Optimization can run away on you especially when you don't get targets till later (I worked on early 360 stuff where we went HAM with geo and textures). Then add people in different depts taking your resources or poor optimization tools.
Games are supposed to looks pretty too man.
Optimization can run away on you especially when you don't get targets till later (I worked on early 360 stuff where we went HAM with geo and textures). Then add people in different depts taking your resources or poor optimization tools.
Games are supposed to looks pretty too man.
notworksafe
Member
Then people should do their own thing in their hotel rooms, not beg Wizard to spend money to pacify them.
shaowebb
Member
Oh I agree, you need some eyecandy but there are ways to do it. Like I said, look up some art and architecture. Textures can carry a lot. Look at a cathedral...actually not that hard to model. Lots of boolean modifiers on random pillars, poles, and baseboards to sort of cookie cutter carve out shapes into a wall. Skin em up with your textures, depth,specular, diffuse, reflect, and bump maps and you got yourself something that went from lincoln log lego land blockiness to a gorgeous cathedral. Its all basic shapes. Make a spiral staircase, use lots of arches and pillars, make uniquely shaped windows, and doors...anything thats a "feature" to a building or object like a door, window, base, or wall put a shape and a nice texture on it. All cheap at runtime and all gorgeous.
You can be flashy without resorting to the mistakes that cause these issues. The Brazil stages look great and I'd be surprised if there's lag or framerate issues on them (unless those birds are everywhere or if they have a lot of animated things that popup). Just do more stuff like that. Pure scenery and architecture can work...those aren't even that elaborate and look good. You cold likely do a stage like the Garou under the bridge stage easily too.
^yeah you could ditch the lighting but you could render that in 3d and it'd look great. Plus some of the lighting could utilize the prerendered video trick I mentioned so you dont have to process light and shadow changes rapidly at runtime (dammit MKX why you do dis to us?)
There are ways man. Folks need to stop getting excited for the tools their 3d software can use that are cool and start getting more excited for the design phase again. The sketch shouldn't NEED a bunch of light and characters and animations all over it to make it good, because it just makes it bad for the players at runtime.
So true. We had so many games from all sorts of genres in the last gen that couldn't hold a steady 30, had loads of screen tearing, and all sorts of other issues because the game had to look good for the trailers and magazine shots.
shaowebb
Member
Oy...I gotta stop dis. One sentence, one...okay.
It should FEEL like you are a part of a world and feel real at sketch level, and it shouldn't require all the animated light, particle, or characters at 3d level before it feels real. If you can achieve this then you can design a proper stage.
Dammit thats two, I have problems.
;_;
It should FEEL like you are a part of a world and feel real at sketch level, and it shouldn't require all the animated light, particle, or characters at 3d level before it feels real. If you can achieve this then you can design a proper stage.
Dammit thats two, I have problems.
;_;
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