I wish I could've explained Fuzzy Abare, Fuzzy Jump, Fuzzy Block and Fuzzy Throw this succinctly to my peers back in the day. The advise there is straight gold for any intermediate Gear player.
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I wish I could've explained Fuzzy Abare, Fuzzy Jump, Fuzzy Block and Fuzzy Throw this succinctly to my peers back in the day. The advise there is straight gold for any intermediate Gear player.
irfaanator
Banned
gotta put in some desk combo vids of sf4. there was this pretty legit tekken combo vid that spanned multiple tekken games and might have been mishima only but I forget what it was called. Oh yea also moment 37. Can't forget that combo vid
now you can teach count and vulva
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
I regret not joining them.
Tizoc
Member
Check your PM please mate.
shaowebb
Member
Nice! Lately I keep thinking of taking the plunge at jammaparts.net on either a "Games Family Killer Edition 3100 In 1 P4 2.4" or the "Pandoras box 4" Jamma board. That way I could pretty much settle out my arcade needs in one shot by getting a dual stick and a monitor setup on one board since I have limited space. Couple hundred for the build and a ridiculous amount of arcade gold. Everything from Marvel to Esp.Ra.De and Progear is on these things.
ColonialHawk
Member
Its gonna happen when you rush a game. They really should've given one more year of development for the game, but they and/or Sony wanted it out early.
Hopefully the can rectify their mistakes and learn from this for future games.
They knew MvC I was coming.
The only award they deserve this year.
CommandThrower
Member
My expectations are low. I kind of expect a KOF XIV situation: game comes with all promised features, but the visuals are sub-par at launch. Down the line, the visuals get updated just like KOF XIV.
Either way, it'll be interesting to see if Capcom learns from SFV's launch.
Ya'll really think Marvel is gonna slap their name on the game and let this kinda fuckery happen?
sixteen-bit
Member
Yes actually
Smooth Operator
Member
It's not 2011 anymore son, Marvel is motivated.
Thomasorus
Member
Yes but is Vergil?
I don't have faith in Marvel having fighting game devs around that are knowledgeable enough to step in and stop whatever horrid design decision Capcom makes tbh. Like, Marvel will make sure it launches "feature complete", but I think Mike Z explains why I don't trust the game to be good.
direct_quote
Member
Wasn't only the lighting updated? Game still looks the same otherwise. MvC:I will look better than KOF XIV no doubt, it probably will look as good as SFV by launch. The only character looking rough was Ryu..
Professor Beef
Banned
oh my god, shut the fuck UP, mike z
we fucking get it, nobody plays skullgirls, big fucking deal. maybe people don't play it because they don't fucking like it
Regardless of what you think of Mike and Skullgirls, I do agree with that point. Capcom is putting SFV down this technical path that is extremely confusing and not encouraging, and people are just going along with it? It makes me extremely weary messing with the design of anything they have cooking up after this.
6.5 lag is bad but I don't think no invincible meterless uppercut is that bad. I am curious to give that kind of SF a try first before writing it off.
It's not like Capcom hasn't made badly designed fighters in the past and it's not like the FGC hasn't tolerated it before. People played Marvel 2 for years and not even Mike Z is going to defend that.
imo MvC2 is actually a good fighting game despite its balance and bugs
Anyways, yeah the game can work with meterless reversals. I get how it works. The fact a Street Fighter game had the issue of invuln DPs being too good is really off putting though. The fact the response to that was to nerf meterless DPs to not have full invuln period? That is pretty baffling when there are a bunch of ways throughout the history of 25+ years of fighting games to make things work.
Idk, the more I hear about SFV S2 the less encouraged I am to even look at it. I'm sure it's better than S1, but the fact it's turning out like this and people are still hella skeptical is shit.
I'm really hoping that Capcom in S2 just patches the game in a reasonable time frame. I hope they talk way more openly with the community about the issues players are having. I don't expect that to happen though, and I do expect them to keep moving things in whatever this direction is which is really unclear.
Anyways, yeah the game can work with meterless reversals. I get how it works. The fact a Street Fighter game had the issue of invuln DPs being too good is really off putting though. The fact the response to that was to nerf meterless DPs to not have full invuln period? That is pretty baffling when there are a bunch of ways throughout the history of 25+ years of fighting games to make things work.
Idk, the more I hear about SFV S2 the less encouraged I am to even look at it. I'm sure it's better than S1, but the fact it's turning out like this and people are still hella skeptical is shit.
I'm really hoping that Capcom in S2 just patches the game in a reasonable time frame. I hope they talk way more openly with the community about the issues players are having. I don't expect that to happen though, and I do expect them to keep moving things in whatever this direction is which is really unclear.
sixteen-bit
Member
I u got 40 minutes to kill here's a long 3S combo video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afB02tqhKbA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afB02tqhKbA
racketpunch
Member
My thoughts exactly.
CountBlack
Member
4 characters had meterless DP's. Those 4 characters were arguably also apart of the top 5 characters in the game. They were nerfed so now they have to block like everyone else.
B L O C K .
Whether Marvel 2 ended up being a good fighting game at the end or not isn't the point, the game was poorly designed and hacked together with little effort or foresight by Capcom. It was an accident, a lightning in a bottle type situation. No fighting game company is ever going to use Marvel 2 as its blueprint design document because that would not fly in today's age. If your game has to be made playable by a bunch of bugs/unintended features (as stated by Mike Z himself) then it's not a well designed game at all. And I love Marvel 2 but I don't for a second forget to see it as what it really is.
People berated on Marvel 2 for having bad design issues back in the day. People hated the 4 buttons, the bugs, the mechanics. Compared to that SFV season 2 hasn't even been out for a month or even played at big stakes tournaments.
As far as Marvel Infinite goes, I don't have much hope or hype for that game because it feels like the priority is going after the casuals. That's not a bad thing by itself but when it comes to game design, it means hacking away features and "dumbing down" the game in ways that impact it negatively. That's my guess on it, I don't have any proof for it of course but I also think Marvel is going to be handled different than SFV. SFV is more about safe game play styles, Marvel is crazier than that and that usually reflects in the design/game play balances.
People berated on Marvel 2 for having bad design issues back in the day. People hated the 4 buttons, the bugs, the mechanics. Compared to that SFV season 2 hasn't even been out for a month or even played at big stakes tournaments.
As far as Marvel Infinite goes, I don't have much hope or hype for that game because it feels like the priority is going after the casuals. That's not a bad thing by itself but when it comes to game design, it means hacking away features and "dumbing down" the game in ways that impact it negatively. That's my guess on it, I don't have any proof for it of course but I also think Marvel is going to be handled different than SFV. SFV is more about safe game play styles, Marvel is crazier than that and that usually reflects in the design/game play balances.
Yup. Skullgirls is an attempt at doing Marvel 3, but taking out all the casual/easy to play/mass audience elements and instead replacing them with highly technical gameplay with character designs that you'd be uncomfortable showing around kids. Me and my sister spent hours and hours playing the game on Dreamcast. We were terrible, we did team supers all the time with the buttons - and it was super fun!
The reason I'm worried about MvCI is that it looks like MSH2 more than an MvC game, and 2v2 can be kinda dry gameplay wise.
direct_quote
Member
Yah that's why I don't get how this "CHANGES EVERYTHING OMG." I understand reducing the input lag though.
It's not just the lack of meterless reversals -- there are other games that do that just fine (Koihime Enbu does it without any issues, and that is a game where the fatal/crush counters are far more dangerous). It's a confluence of issues, mainly that those characters and this game:
- Is a game where safe jumps may as well not exist outside of a couple of one-off situations, which was the typical answer to DP-happy players.
- Generally has stubby ass normals, so there are no attacks that are "safe" against reversals due to their hitboxes.
- Generally has moves with very few active frames, which means that people can't really get stable oki options, which then leads to:
- The characters in question also have 3 frame jabs (which meant that most meaty setups lost to either tech+mash jab or back tech+mash jab).
I think what Mike Z's other point is that Capcom is showing zero interest in addressing quality of life issues in SF5. What have they fixed over the last year -- matchmaking not being completely fucked and Directinput being added to the PC version? Wow, such support. This comes across as a company that is looking to do the absolute minimum to extract what they can from the fanbase that remains. Maybe they put all of their resources into MvCI. Maybe there's no one there with the technical knowledge to get things working right in UE4. Maybe they reassigned nearly everyone to more failed mobile projects. Who knows -- all I know is that the way they're treating the game is not a good look for the community at large.
The 6-7 frames of input lag is a joke that deserves to be clowned on until the end of time, though.
Huw_Dawson
Member
SFV is a very low budget game, though.
I legit do not understand two things about SF5:
1. 6.5f of lag
2. Wakeup timings being what they are.
I legit do not understand two things about SF5:
1. 6.5f of lag
2. Wakeup timings being what they are.
my buddy cozby has been doing VF match analysis vids
his newest is a set i played early this year
what is the oneida special? akira players hate it!!!
https://youtu.be/2exMrIB8wj0
his newest is a set i played early this year
what is the oneida special? akira players hate it!!!
https://youtu.be/2exMrIB8wj0
Ardenyal
Member
The problem I have with the change is that it makes jumping in even more favourable as it was before. The DPs trade too often and blocking leads to grey life loss which is now something you are unlikely to get back.
The DPs should have air attack invincibility.
Professor Beef
Banned
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the complaints about SF4 that it was too defensive? Now it's not defensive enough?
Yes. SF4 was too defensive. The main complaint now is that SFV went way too far in the opposite direction.
Holy Order Sol
Member
just make the reversal window 1f and actually require the forward input in the motion tbh
oh wait BARRIER TO ENTRY lol
oh wait BARRIER TO ENTRY lol
CountBlack
Member
4 characters
ViewtifulJC
Banned
im sure tekken 7 will have all the features ya'll want, like player two rematch, good netcode, 30+ characters out the box, a legit story mode and arcade mode for casuals, UI that dont look like they made it five minutes beforehand, hundreds of non-DLC unlockables and 8 player tournament/spectator mode
the TLD of Namco
but does it have ryu
Professor Beef
Banned
Uppercuts still work, too. I get SRK'd all the damn time if I test someone with a jump-in. But force people to block on wakeup, and oh my god the sky starts falling.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
but akumer
kusanagi1777
Member
Just wondering why does nobody complain about MKX or KOFXIV input lag? Even though there higher than SFV.
Street fighter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbsSkwVEb9o
Mortal Kombat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MeDCSflnwc
Kof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSJFoxneq4
Street fighter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbsSkwVEb9o
Mortal Kombat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MeDCSflnwc
Kof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSJFoxneq4
Professor Beef
Banned
sure, but I have no shame for asking for buffs for my characters
I just want green hand back
Also a good Alex costume
oh and maybe some alex buffs I guess
I just want green hand back
you're a t-hawk player
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