I was gonna retort with Batman and Superman but then I remembered the colossal mess up that was BvS... LOL!
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- Thread starter notworksafe
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He said relevant.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
We back at pickles? I had a Cuban sandwich from Publix. Pickle quality low, bland ham. Dat bread was good though.
shaowebb
Member
Honestly, without assists I wonder how any team is gonna go. Its not gonna be the same team building as MVC3 and MVC2 thats for certain. In SFxTekken it tended to go with an all rounder who could start offense easily and then someone who got good damage to tag out and cashout your combos with at the end for awhile. Though in MVCI it looks like everyone still has a standard launcher so getting folks to start juggling for a team combo tag in is less of an issue in that respect here.
This is why we need to know more on mechanics than cast at the moment. Feels like we are missing something with infinity gems. Something that might tie together the whole team building synergy stuff in combos.
I really would be happier if they caved on "no assists" though. I'm certain that one partner assist and one other assist that is not restricted to whoever you chose as a partner that could be punished till gone or used up would still solve their complaints on team building and shoehorning players. DFCI has a large list of assists anyone can choose from. Just do that, make em punishable with a seperate bar that can eventually lock them out if they get punished too much same as with regular assists and couple this with a partner assist and you get the best of both worlds. Each character has a partner assist and the team has one universal assist. Both can be punished for bad calls and you are not shoehorned into any particular team. You get the marvel insanity and setups and next to none of the pigeonholing into a narrow team dynamic that they worried about.
I wont focus on what the game is not though. I wanna see what MVCI actually is more first. I still think removing assists entirely instead of reworking how they handled them was a poor fix for the issues they had with them.
I somehow missed this gem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVcIZ745ZtA
Yipes and KBrad commentate the intro to UMVC3. Too bad it wasn't the full version which is on the VITA I believe.
Dante would whoop Ghost Rider free but Vergil would mess up Wolverine even harder.
Main issue that might arise from this is that one of the gems will be deemed as the "meta" gem and then a duo or two will be figured out that best exploit the gem. That would greatly reduce team variations and synergies though I guess it's way too in the future to worry about balancing when these things are hopefully going to be patched with more efficiency than in Marvel 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVcIZ745ZtA
Yipes and KBrad commentate the intro to UMVC3. Too bad it wasn't the full version which is on the VITA I believe.
Dante would whoop Ghost Rider free but Vergil would mess up Wolverine even harder.
The way I think Marvel Infinite teams would work is that you use that SFxT template of "point character has good neutral, anchor character has good combos/damage/finishers" but with the added layer of picking your duo based on the gem. You would want to have a duo that both can take maximum advantage of a particular gem.Shaowebb said:
Main issue that might arise from this is that one of the gems will be deemed as the "meta" gem and then a duo or two will be figured out that best exploit the gem. That would greatly reduce team variations and synergies though I guess it's way too in the future to worry about balancing when these things are hopefully going to be patched with more efficiency than in Marvel 3.
direct_quote
Member
Yipes wants Nero too, we in there.
The positives of a lack of synergies in Marvel Infinite is that you could potentially pick whatever two characters you want to play instead of picking a character you like then picking his best partner based on synergies. That's assuming every character has all the tool they need to fight the match ups.
shaowebb
Member
Another aspect to team synergy in MVCI that wasn't such a huge factor in SFxTekken is zoning...or at least the kind of zoning I'm referring to. Marvel has BEAMS and a lot of crazy mobility that you either do or do not have. Does everyone get an airdash? How about wave dashing or plink dashing? Are their any universal tools with armor or counters or something? Are there with gems?
Its gonna be a thing when you choose a team if you choose folks who can't get in. Are gems gonna mitigate a Haggar+Ryu style team (just giving an example of poor mobility) constantly by giving them dashes or answers to beams or will you only get that in limited bursts or something? Do you not get that at all from gems?
Like I said, we just dont know nearly enough on the game's systems and mechanics to have any idea how team synergy goes. Wouldn't be surprised if characters with good neutral and a beam are dominating team lists though if gems dont actually fill in the gaps in some people's movesets all the time vs such tools.
Its a positive that you really could just pick whoever you wanted, but its a negative that it makes it less important who people play because there's no strategic benefits behind it. The strategy of how to build a team was what made the series so compelling IMO. Its why I said I feel removing assists was a lazy fix to the concern that players got pigeonholed into using certain characters too often.
One partner assist, one universal assist. Simple as that. One to allow for team build strats and one to allow you to say fuck it I'll play whoever I want instead if you so choose to. Put some checks and balances on the universal assist so it can also be punished with consequences same as your partner and you're done. My two cents on the matter. Eager to see more of how gems work. I need to know what strategies they are actually implementing into teams now that assists are gone.
MiniBossBattle
Member
I can see a strider/zero type tagging into a hulk or Haggar for damage.
shaowebb
Member
I can see point Spiderman being a thing in this game if assists aren't a concern. His mobility was pretty ace...his combos, assists, and DHC were what were ass. Bein able to web folks might lead to good tag stuff unto itself if they work it right. It'd be good to see that bug finally more prominent in the game.
Karsticles
Member
I like how some of you are assuming Capcom will straight-up copy+paste characters from MvC3 because we all know they will.
Lots of people here near publix
Do yourself a favor and get the chicken tender sub please
Professor Beef
Banned
I disagree IMO
It's the only way they will finish this game within a year.
----
Captain Jack, an old Melee player who is trying to come back was signed by a fake eSports team (CC eSports). The owner of the team was arrested for fraud.
http://smash.captainjack.jp/entry/be-aware-of-illegit-teams
Also, apparently, there is a website called mugshots.com
shaowebb
Member
Eh. If they do that and "rebalance" some characters then thats cool. We already saw Ironman has some different moves so thats very promising regarding the future of ported over dudes. Change Spidey's inputs a little, add a few moves...it goes a long way. Hell look at Spencer in Ultimate vs Vanilla.
I'm for this. Doesn't sound like they are gonna skimp on new dudes so getting old ones back with updates is a nice extra. We were begging for old dudes in Ultimate and still doin it now. Captain Commando, Jin, Venom, Gambit, Cable, Cyclops...we had a pretty big wishlist. Its kind of painful letting some go. We already saw the fallout beginning over the very idea of Magneto goin away.
Port all you can Capcom with some updates and let the FGC go nuts.
https://twitter.com/ATLfinalround/status/818223638818103296
https://smash.gg/tournament/final-round-20
137 attendees currently. People in the FGC don't learn to reg early.
petran79
Banned
Ucchedavāda;227904870 said:
Problem is that 2 matches per set is the default value for most lobbies. So a filter limits the available numbers.
SFV on PC has the same issue USF4 on Steam had for a long time. You can not see the flag and connection status of lobbies. You have constant loading of the connection bar without any indication. Chances are only 1/10 lobbies will show up correctly. So you have no clue where to enter for good connections. When USF4 had that issue due to Steam client, they said it was unplayable.
Creating my lobby means even more waiting time if you add also that I am into Rookie status.
Prefer lobbies because there is more variety of players and you can study the opponents.
Casual is the same as ranked. Random encounters where you cant play more than three matches and cant choose players you had pkayed against before. In SFIV a beginner was advised to play on lobbies for a reason.
Skullgirls with its lobby mode opened my eyes. Arcsys fighters too.
Maybe organizers should offer early bird discount? Then again other than Tekken players I'm not sure the majority can afford to pay early 🤔
Tizoc
Member
So when can we expect the next SF5 character reveal?
Also Season 3/Season 2 Part 2 reveal in EVO '17?
90 mins. of Daemon Bride
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNXTfcOvnEc
6+ Hours of Melty Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAGOAxbhDrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ZupiQWgYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNflht3VQ8c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Cfn_kWFIo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq6H78jS4FU
2+ Hours of BlazBlue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebqOEhcWwQ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOAp_bJK9e0
1 Hour of Sengoku Enbu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvJ6M7Slrn4
Also Season 3/Season 2 Part 2 reveal in EVO '17?
90 mins. of Daemon Bride
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNXTfcOvnEc
6+ Hours of Melty Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAGOAxbhDrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ZupiQWgYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNflht3VQ8c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Cfn_kWFIo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq6H78jS4FU
2+ Hours of BlazBlue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebqOEhcWwQ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOAp_bJK9e0
1 Hour of Sengoku Enbu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvJ6M7Slrn4
Spuck-uk
Banned
Tekken 7 might have words about that
Spuck-uk
Banned
Fucking LOL. I mean, it's a cool game and all, but it's a visual abomination. Layers upon layers of effects that could give a blind person epilepsy.
Xrd:Revelator is much cleaner, nicer in motion, and employs some pretty ridiculous 3d tricks to work.
sixteen-bit
Member
If you're on the west coast, skip in-n-out and go to the habit. you're welcome.
edit: fuck, I'm responding to days old fast food talk
edit: fuck, I'm responding to days old fast food talk
Huw_Dawson
Member
I'm gonna guess at March. Capcom will probably want S2 done by September so they can have the Christmas period be filled by the Marvel 4 hype train (if there is one - but we need to see the game first)
Revelator is way better optimized on PC than SFV. Runs on my alpha (PC i use in my cab) at default settings, 60 FPS, looks great. SFV struggles to keep 60 FPS and ultimately i had to degrade the graphics settings to keep a solid 60 FPS. they might have improved it over time, i haven't gone back to check.
Lostconfused
Member
To be fair Revelator is probably just less demanding than SFV in general and is running on an older Unreal Engine version in DirectX 9.
This is with the early bird discount.
i'm sure it is, the funny thing is that Revelator ends up looking better. it was frustrating that SFV ran so poorly because i don't otherwise need a beefy PC for the cab (most running emulation + indie + shmups) and you don't see any big visual benefits of choices Capcom made.
shaowebb
Member
Oh wow Daemon Bride! Thats EXAMU's non waifu fighter. Its really good and needs a console port bad since Additional Gain hit. It uses boosts but I'm not certain if its 100% the same as the homing dashes and homing dash cancels of Arcana Heart. I dont think it is since super jumps are more conservative in that game than Arcana even if they are pretty huge.
Its one of the reasons I really need to find a way to download that Nessica Live dump that hit the internet. Seen a shmup guy with it rocking Daemon Bride, Senko No Ronde Duo and a bunch of other stuff. #jealous
Spuck-uk
Banned
Revelator uses some pretty amazing tricks to get the character models looking as good as they do. All due credit to the devs, it's a real labour of love.
What did they do to Spencer? I don't recall.
Huw_Dawson
Member
shaowebb
Member
Used to be like a 1 or 2 frame link to connect his zipline kick thingy into ANYTHING afterwards in vanilla. It made him a character most dropped in spite of his tools because they simply ran the risk of dropping every combo before they could cash out for super or whatever and end it. One little frame change and suddenly he was usable by folks. Then combos went kinda nuts with 80k stuff.
Very few changes a casual player would notice unless told the differences between vanilla or ultimate but it showed that at high level just a few tweaks can tier shift a character entirely. Then of course you had stuff like everyone getting an OTG, Viewtiful Joe gaining dodges, Wesker getting buffs when he took his glasses off, Dr Doom's divekick reaching god tier and thats not counting system changes making some folks completely different in tier lists due to stuff like the basic environment changing with TAC, Xfactor, and the removal of the DHC Glitch buffs.
A few tweaks here and there can be huge. I feel Spidey without the midair DP inputs would get popular quick in a tag game given his mobilty is there and you no longer have to rely on DHC combos or assists to cash out for damage with him. Dude lands hits easy and converting it to kills would be as simple as tag combo partners like Hulk or Sentinel levels of damage being available.
Not certain if it was in vanilla or not but spidey's webs and spencer's grapple gained hitboxes too didn't they? Was that added ?
naw i gave up on that battle a long, long time ago
It's worse than I thought :O
besides giving him way more hitstun on shit, speeding up zip and making armor piercer 1f at point blank they also buffed his dash a whole fucking lot (seriously try plinkdashing w him in vanilla and laugh at how he doubled in speed)
there's a lot of minor changes to move properties that aren't really noted in the changelists that ultimately make a huge difference. morrigan's dash being buffed is another one of those kinda things.
on the other side you get chars like iron man who have their regular ass ground dash nerfed without saying anything. boy it was a hoot to find out iron man had a real ass ground dash in vanilla when fuckin' around with it w/ friends recently. too bad about his everything else
ehh, spidey when it's just 1v1 is annoying because hes a pain in the ass to catch. problem is, without assists he also can't really hit the other guy because his normals are wack and his movement isn't that freeform on the offensive side. he doesn't have anything to really force the other guy to respect him and sit still long enough for a mixup. dude suffers a lot vs. keepaway because he can't really force offense like other chars.
and both of them had hitboxes in vanilla but the moves were slow as shit so they couldn't really do anything with them. spidey also gained OTG web zip which lead to it being a priority in being able to play him since he can convert off throws using it in ultimate.
gotta see movement system restrictions first in a no-tag environment to really make that judgement. there's guaranteed to be reduction of utility in movesets, especially in the mobility department. it's the only way you can design a tag fighter without assists while still having 8way airdashes, flight and other crazy movement shit like zips.
edit:
as for ironman, my assumption is that he's getting a real airdash in exchange for his normals being nerfed quite significantly. in the gameplay reveal trailer you can see that his normals don't have sentinel-length reach anymore. i'm pretty sure one of the major reasons why he has that garbage ass airdash in umvc3 is specifically because he has airdash cancelable normals that are sentinel range. same with his cr.M sweep- comparing the distance they reach is pretty easy as the boost in UMVC3 has a hitbox while the one in the ultimate trailer doesn't go nearly as far.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Same. I think Revelator hasn't gotten nearly enough credit for how it aimed to curb the "ArcSys Cycle" this revision. Even from its own fans and players.
sixteen-bit
Member
that steam price and release schedule was a little extreme imo
ShadowSoldier89
Member
fuck ASW
I think both games looks amazing. One of the best things about SFV apart from it's gameplay is the visual presentation, each character is detailed, vibrant and unique done to the T. Guilty Gear is also very well done and it's amazing how they made those sprites look like the older games but in 3D.
There's probably a version of Iron Man out there that's a combination of Vanilla Iron Man (better dashes, actual tri dash, double jump) and Ultimate Iron Man (air dash cancelable normals, glide feature, better specials) that is top tier as hell.
The only keep away that Spider Man struggles against is Morrigan and Zero mostly because they flood the screen with hitboxes which means navigating them with straight ziplines is difficult... so basically every character against those two hence why they are god tier. Any other zoning character gets whooped by Spider Man (so Dorm, Chris, Hawkeye etc) because of Zipline. And Spider Man actually has Zipline pressure along with weird overheads. Spider Man is legit high/upper mid tier character. Spencer is just the gorilla version of Spider Man where he has some gorilla hit stun normals that he converts to big damage which means him easier to play. Spider Man has small hit box attacks and low hit stun meaning you need a lot more finesse to play him, probably why he never got any popular in the States. He's around Deadpool good and Deadpool made top 8 at EVO now.
In any case these types of zipline/air dash characters would be kinda absurd in Marvel Infinite without assists so there has to be some major system mechanic changes from Marvel 3. They also need to change characters more than just what they did with Ryu who so far seems like a straight port with like one extra normal added in.
The only keep away that Spider Man struggles against is Morrigan and Zero mostly because they flood the screen with hitboxes which means navigating them with straight ziplines is difficult... so basically every character against those two hence why they are god tier. Any other zoning character gets whooped by Spider Man (so Dorm, Chris, Hawkeye etc) because of Zipline. And Spider Man actually has Zipline pressure along with weird overheads. Spider Man is legit high/upper mid tier character. Spencer is just the gorilla version of Spider Man where he has some gorilla hit stun normals that he converts to big damage which means him easier to play. Spider Man has small hit box attacks and low hit stun meaning you need a lot more finesse to play him, probably why he never got any popular in the States. He's around Deadpool good and Deadpool made top 8 at EVO now.
In any case these types of zipline/air dash characters would be kinda absurd in Marvel Infinite without assists so there has to be some major system mechanic changes from Marvel 3. They also need to change characters more than just what they did with Ryu who so far seems like a straight port with like one extra normal added in.
sixteen-bit
Member
Scalebound reportedly canceled + Kaimya-san suffering mental health issues 
https://mobile.twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/818545880089427968
https://mobile.twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/818545880089427968
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Ehhhh I guess lol... I don't think the launch price was that bad considering SFV is still 60 for the base version on steam.
I'm speaking of their timing of balance patches and releases on console though with Revelator preserving Sign's character balance initially, and with the release of the demo basically being the Revelator arcade version which US events quickly adopted for tournaments.
So leading up to Evo no one ever really had their practice wasted on a truly obsolete version. Then immediately after Evo finals they launch their character balance patch, which most of their audience responded to pretty favorably and has been the current version of the game to this day give or take minor changes and bug fixes with the figure mode release.
I think it's the best example of good patch timing and player satisfaction with the changes in patches next to Killer Instinct with modern games. Yet it doesn't really get anywhere near the amount of praise for it as KI.
WHAT!!!!Scalebound reportedly canceled + Kaimya-san suffering mental health issues
https://mobile.twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/818545880089427968
God damn terrible news...:/
I had issues with Scalebound as an action game but still looked forward to it as a new game from Kamiya, one of the greatest game developers of all time.
Hopefully Kamiya bounces back.
irfaanator
Banned
rip
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