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Fighting Game Headquarters |4| Cheers Love, the Anime's Here!

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Dahbomb

Member
CO_Andy said:
Kamiya's last three games were very rough: W101, SFZ, and Scalebound

None of these games were comparable in quality to his older work
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Starfox Zero was rough though I don't know how involved Kamiya was in that one.

Wonderful101 was a great game, one of the diamonds in the rough type games.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
NMTC schedule

Friday, 2/17/2017

5-7PM: VF2 Tournament:
2/3 SINGLE ELIMINATION
3/5 Finals/Grand Finals
8-10PM: VF3 Tournament:
2/3 SINGLE ELIMINATION
3/5 Finals/Grand Finals

Saturday, 2/18/2017

10AM-12PM: VF4 EVO Tournament:
2/3 SINGLE ELIMINATION
3/5 Finals
2PM-6PM: VF5FS Tournament:
2/3 DOUBLE ELIMINATION
3/5 Finals/Grand Finals

Sunday, 2/19/2017

12PM-2PM: Team Battle VF5FS Tournament:
Two of three single elimination
Three out of Five Finals
2PM - 4PM: Casuals, Exhibition Matches, Jason Elbow vs Cmoney MM, Call out battles!
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
CO_Andy said:
Kamiya's last three games were very rough: W101, SFZ, and Scalebound

None of these games were comparable in quality to his older work
Click to expand...

Kamiya had no role in Star Fox, though with the cancellation of SB and the apparent anguish it caused him I think he wished he worked on that instead.

And W101 was a great, if confusing, game.
 
S

Seyavesh

Member
Dahbomb said:
There's probably a version of Iron Man out there that's a combination of Vanilla Iron Man (better dashes, actual tri dash, double jump) and Ultimate Iron Man (air dash cancelable normals, glide feature, better specials) that is top tier as hell.

The only keep away that Spider Man struggles against is Morrigan and Zero mostly because they flood the screen with hitboxes which means navigating them with straight ziplines is difficult... so basically every character against those two hence why they are god tier. Any other zoning character gets whooped by Spider Man (so Dorm, Chris, Hawkeye etc) because of Zipline. And Spider Man actually has Zipline pressure along with weird overheads. Spider Man is legit high/upper mid tier character. Spencer is just the gorilla version of Spider Man where he has some gorilla hit stun normals that he converts to big damage which means him easier to play. Spider Man has small hit box attacks and low hit stun meaning you need a lot more finesse to play him, probably why he never got any popular in the States. He's around Deadpool good and Deadpool made top 8 at EVO now.
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naaaaah, deadpool is way, way better than spidey for a whole lot of reasons. the biggest one being he has an actual presence in terms of zoning. spidey puts his body out there and throws a web ball really slowly at best. when someone jumps away from spidey he can't do jack shit about it. when someone jumps away from deadpool, that's a good thing for him. he's been massively underrated for awhile and is in a group of competitively viable chars that i think have been left at the wayside since the game got "solved" faster than they could be explored. so like, spencer/wesker tier, roughly. spidey's a bit below that group, which mega sucks since he's so fun to use. but hell, who knows- ryanlv can make chun into a disgusting monster via proper team synergy so maybe spidey has something like that going for him in his runaway strength.

as for the 'keepaway' chars you listed, the only one that actually "loses" to spidey is chris and that's pretty arguable in itself. spidey doesn't have a way to make chris really respect him so it's this weird battle between two chars who don't really have a way to deal with each other effectively. when i say keepaway i mean magneto, deadpool, modok, doom and whatnot- chars that have effective movement and ways of stopping an airborne char from farting around too much.

and yeah, i know about zipline mixups. that's why i specifically singled out his lack of ability to actually force them to sit there and block it. he doesn't have the same luxury that spencer does in a lot of ways in regards to that, not only in terms of hitstun but also in terms of hitboxes, speed and fishing with random chin checks (in terms of doing counterzoning grapples/frame trap grapples). he can't force someone to eat mixups like spencer does because he doesn't generate pressure in the same way spencer does via dashup jab or jump->downforward zip. people aren't scared to do shit against him and they have no real reason to be scared. you're really overestimating spidey's zipline- that shit is really not that good

as for iron man, the only thing he really needs to be top tier are a real airdash, a real dash and a real launcher. if his launcher worked from max range cr.m or if his st.h came out faster/went just a bit further so comboing from cr.m worked well he'd be really really disgustingly good. when marvel comes out on pc i'm hoping someone figures out how to modify that stuff easily so i can show a quickie example of how absurdly silly he'd be just airdashing around pressing df+H. his support value in unibeam, TACs and a framekill DHC/THC is already pretty damn good- the only thing he's really missing is a safe DHC in that sense.

if iron man had a glide though, holy shit would he be super annoying to fight. like at least dr. doom levels of annoying. dude should've totally had it since he ended up having a wack ass airdash. it'd be fun to just glide around pressing j.s/j.H/df+H at dudes all day
 
C

CO_Andy

Member
W101 was enjoyable but too hardcore and uncompromising. With that style of action then then it better damn well have short load times and ultra precise controls.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
No Iron man already has glide, you are talking about float.

Glide is what Nova has also where you can hold down dash and he keeps dashing forward gaining more speed. It's the main reason why they slowed down Iron Man's dash on start up. Ultimate Iron Man got it and you can do stuff like Smart Bomb into air dash down/forward glide behind it and even get a combo off of it. It's not that great overall but it's not a bad property have... certainly doesn't replace having traditional ground and air dashes though. With Nova Capcom at least gave him a normal dash plus a slide so he can get in from different spaces (ground and air) to be in position for his high/low air dash mix up or throws. Iron Man can do the same box dash as Nova but doesn't have Nova's j.H and doesn't have the ground dash for mobility variety. So IM's approaches and escapes end up being one dimensional.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Professor Beef said:
RE2 is ok
DMC is shit
VJoe is great
Okami is boring
Bayo is great
W101 is bad

Not a great track record imo, but since he goes from good to bad in this list, I guess Scalebound was set to be ok.
Click to expand...
Another batch of terrible opinions, it's like a bad gag joke at this point.

ViewtifulJC gonna come in here and set you right.


Let's do this correctly now:

RE2: Successfully moved RE into a more action oriented foray while maintaining a high level of overall quality. A superb game all around, one of the best PS1 games of all time and one of the best sequels of all time. And this was Kamiya's FIRST directed game AND he HATES survival horror!

DMC: A revolutionary title that successfully translated the tightness of 2D combat into a 3D plane while retaining high level of enemy/level/sound design. It essentially started its own sub genre that people are still copying to this day (though less these days because the DMC formula has been moved to the Souls series). One of the best action games of all time and probably the most important if you care for the Bayonetta/NG type action games.

Viewtiful Joe: One of the few excellent 2D cel-shaded action games with enough depth and nuances to entertain both younger and older audiences. Unique style, over the top and just solid fun all around.

Okami: A seminal adventure game with some unique stuff and really showed that Kamiya is capable of more than just straight action games. Superb art style and sound design... one of the most original games made in the PS2 era and that's saying a lot. Highly acclaimed title.

Bayonetta: Successfully iterated on the DMC/DMC3 formula of high octane action and took it to new heights. Almost a culmination of all the action mechanics that Kamiya had worked on in the past and combined it with a crazy aesthetic and design.

Wonderful101: Like VJ a unique cel-shaded action game with lots of unique mechanics and game play attributes. IMO this is easily his weakest game but still a great game that is more of a diamond in the rough. Once you get the game's flow and mechanics then it opens up and lot and you start doing DMC style combos and styling but admittedly it didn't capture the balance that VJ did.


Only W101 I would rate as less than a 9 from his list of directed games. I don't know many other directors that I could say the same for. Some of his games shaped a genre for years and stood as the benchmark for years.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
Edzi said:
Not liking or being good at a game != being bad.
Click to expand...

Thinking a game is bad != not being good at it.

I'll be the first to admit I'm bad at RE games because I can't stand the controls and in general don't like the survival horror genre, but I like everything else about them.
 
E

Edzi

Member
Professor Beef said:
Thinking a game is bad != not being good at it.

I'll be the first to admit I'm bad at RE games because I can't stand the controls and in general don't like the survival horror genre, but I like everything else about them.
Click to expand...

That's why I also said not liking a game doesn't make it bad. DMC and W101 probably weren't for you, which is fine, but calling them bad isn't really accurate.
 
M

Moaradin

Member
Professor Beef said:
If this ain't the most back-handed insult I've ever seen
Click to expand...

Easily. Awesome combat with tons of depth, the best boss fights they've done with easily one of the best final bosses in any action game. The amount of content the game has is much more than something like Bayo or Rising. The story is great and is by far the best they've done in terms of writing and pacing. The soundtrack is amazing.

Wonderful 101 is fantastic.
 
S

Seyavesh

Member
Dahbomb said:
No Iron man already has glide, you are talking about float.

Glide is what Nova has also where you can hold down dash and he keeps dashing forward gaining more speed. It's the main reason why they slowed down Iron Man's dash on start up. Ultimate Iron Man got it and you can do stuff like Smart Bomb into air dash down/forward glide behind it and even get a combo off of it. It's not that great overall but it's not a bad property have... certainly doesn't replace having traditional ground and air dashes though. With Nova Capcom at least gave him a normal dash plus a slide so he can get in from different spaces (ground and air) to be in position for his high/low air dash mix up or throws. Iron Man can do the same box dash as Nova but doesn't have Nova's j.H and doesn't have the ground dash for mobility variety. So IM's approaches and escapes end up being one dimensional.
Click to expand...

oh, that has a name? i just always considered it a different airdash. you don't actually hold down dash, it's just how they accelerate. if im's airdash even started as fast as nova's even he would still be considerably better- airdash forward j.H/S would be a pretty good pressure tool instead of doing jack and shit. it really is kinda sad how much startup his airdash has.

i get the idea in having a super slow startup and an insanely long range/fast acceleration but it means so little ultimately, haha. i guess it's cool how he travels literally fullscreen off a full DF airdash but i'm pretty amazed they left it as it is.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I think they tried to give each of the air dashers something unique (like Doom has those dash cancelable normals on the ground) but some options were clearly better than others.

Trish probably has the best pure mobility in the game after Phoenix. Fast 8 way air dash, double jump, a slide, fast ground dashes and a dive kick along with sword normals... everything plinkable. I remember in the build where they first had Trish and Doom people thought Trish would be insanely powerful but of course in that build she probably was among the best character that wasn't Wolverine and Dante.
 
S

Seyavesh

Member
Dahbomb said:
I think they tried to give each of the air dashers something unique (like Doom has those dash cancelable normals on the ground) but some options were clearly better than others.

Trish probably has the best pure mobility in the game after Phoenix. Fast 8 way air dash, double jump, a slide, fast ground dashes and a dive kick along with sword normals... everything plinkable. I remember in the build where they first had Trish and Doom people thought Trish would be insanely powerful but of course in that build she probably was among the best character that wasn't Wolverine and Dante.
Click to expand...

yeah, trish easily has the best mobility. it's a lil hard to say because of how other tools factor into it but it's a strong battle between her or mags, with mags only potentially coming out ahead specifically because of his ground dash being so disgustingly good vs. her pretty average one.

her big downsides are a lack of conversion ability, meter build/dmg and strong zoning presence. even with that, i still think she's radically underrated though- kbrad is good but he doesn't push the limits of the char in the same way that like, greenace did. he's a fundamentals style player in the same vein that jwong is for marvel, haha.

to note, in that build dr. doom also had an infinite that was footdive->ADF->footdive which was really just the best. there was a vid for it that i can't find.

seriously, god i wish i could find that video again. it's one of my favorite 'lil beta version vids of a fg because it's so silly. dr. doom just stomping a guy's face eternally
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Out of curiosity, would you guys be hyped if there was a yearly tournament held just for Capcom VS games?

MVC1
MVC2
UMVC3
MVC:I
CVS2
SVC
TVC
SFxTekken
XvsSF
MSH vs SF

Possibly Capcom Fighting Evolution since its a crossover as well I guess.
Would you want to attend, compete or stream?
 
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