Firstly, I didn't state it is the best playing fighter this generation, I said it is one of them. Secondly, I've played fighters pretty much for over 15 years from the 3D, sprite and arena genres and I can tell you SFV is one of the best in terms of gameplay and presentation. Lastly, pros play for a reason, hence the name "pro". Just like a professional basketball player won't continue to play if he/she has no incentive, the same will also apply here. Their passion for the game is there but they need that thirst and hunger of that prize to drive them to it.
Fighting Game Headquarters |4| Cheers Love, the Anime's Here!
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Firstly, I didn't state it is the best playing fighter this generation, I said it is one of them. Secondly, I've played fighters pretty much for over 15 years from the 3D, sprite and arena genres and I can tell you SFV is one of the best in terms of gameplay and presentation. Lastly, pros play for a reason, hence the name "pro". Just like a professional basketball player won't continue to play if he/she has no incentive, the same will also apply here. Their passion for the game is there but they need that thirst and hunger of that prize to drive them to it.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It really isn't through.
You're wrong but you are entitled to your opinion.
notworksafe
Member
best in terms of presentation, definitely not. gameplay is preference so to each their own.
Character models (not Ken's face) and animations are very vibrant, fluid and full of character but the UI presentation is disgusting though.
Well said
Why's it so hard for people to admit something's quality despite not liking it themselves?
I don't care for SFV but I admit its gameplay is great. It's just not for me.
What Fighting Game gameplay standards is SFV not meeting that allows people in a FGC thread to disregard the quality of it completely?
I don't care for SFV but I admit its gameplay is great. It's just not for me.
What Fighting Game gameplay standards is SFV not meeting that allows people in a FGC thread to disregard the quality of it completely?
But then you got dudes like Alex and Ken. I'd put it ahead of MKX in terms of graphics, but that's not saying much. GG easily bests it in that category and that's running on UE3.
It looks decent, but definitely not what I'd call great. I guess because of the lack of (current gen) competition, SFV is technically one of the best looking 2D fighters out there....But that's a pretty low bar to ascend.
Cos we don't agree that it is quality
shaowebb
Member
I thought SFV looked hype at EVO. Chun just looked like great fun along with Cammy and Laura. Played it...ehh. Its alright but its so back to basics that I got bored. Same as SFIV was for me. What it did it did okay, but it just didn't do anything that stood out that was very interesting compared to all the other alternatives out there so I left. If folks feel that stuff like the burst systems, or Max Mode, or HD gauge, or UNIEL GRD gauge Vorpal stuff or whatever other meter systems and mechanics like clashing and special states is a distraction and confuses them then I guess its the game for them. I just feel that the other stuff is more hype because it adds layers to the mindgames so I dont find SF in general as exciting now as when I was a kid.
Doesn't really help my feelings about SF when I see its own FGC constantly up in arms and putting out vids like Chris G did going into very very technical detail as to why a lot of what is in it is what they feel is "trash".
Doesn't really help my feelings about SF when I see its own FGC constantly up in arms and putting out vids like Chris G did going into very very technical detail as to why a lot of what is in it is what they feel is "trash".
So answer the question: what Fighting Game standards is SFV not meeting (in terms of pure gameplay) that justifies denying any and all imputations of quality?
MiniBossBattle
Member
I just hate it when the limbs don't match the hitbox. Just make ryus limbs as stubby as his actual attacks are.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
All this stuff is subjective and opinion. I like the way SFV plays and I think it's high quality (not the UI though, lol)
Others don't think so. Thank god there are a ton of other games to play (which some I think are trash gameplay wise, but it's just my opinion) to meet people's tastes.
Others don't think so. Thank god there are a ton of other games to play (which some I think are trash gameplay wise, but it's just my opinion) to meet people's tastes.
The Street Fighter community are very volatile when it comes to any small change because they are so passionate about the franchise so I wouldn't take what they say about balance as gospel. Like I mentioned before, season 2 has only just started and in terms of balance it's still one of the most balanced fighters, not just in the SF franchise, but within the fighting game genre. The pro scene genuinely do like the core gameplay as that (as well as any prize) is what is continually motivating them to play, learn and grow - and they will stick by it until it ends, just like they did with SFIV.
notworksafe
Member
KidA Seven
Member
It's not the balance that people are complaining about.
The pro scene is mixed. There are things they like and things they don't like. That goes for the pros that like the game and for the pros that don't like the game.
Personally, I don't think it is. People tend to use "subjectivity" and "opinion" to cloak and shield positions that are often just unjustifiable and force choke any potential discussion on a subject.
CommandThrower
Member
I still think that SFV's gameplay is the best out of all the Street Fighters that I've played. I consider it good enough that I can understand why people who like it do like it, but the game itself doesn't have enough in it to make me want to continue playing it. I still only got to Bronze in the online--just Bronze, and I feel no desire to play more currently.
I don't regret buying the game, but I would regret buying any of the seasons if I did buy them.
I don't regret buying the game, but I would regret buying any of the seasons if I did buy them.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I means in terms of your own value judgement of a game and how it plays and accepting others opinions wholesale to form your opinion.
I listen to the complaints. Some I can agree with. A ChrisG salt session is not going to effect how I feel and I spend my free time.
I have fun playing it and I think it's high quality (with its core gameplay, animations, etc). All the other stuff around it is lacking of course. And capcom should be held to the fire for it. But just for that.
But other's saying they think it's shit, that's their opinion, and I respect it, but it ain't gospel to me.
I don't have high opinions of smash or NRS gameplay. Others love it. Some people think 3S is trash, or ST is the best game ever. To each their own. But I just hope these people don't think their opinion is better than others.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The problem with SFV is that there is almost 0 free form to the gameplay. At high level the game is so stiff that everyone for the most part already knows what to expect and how a majority of matches play out, it's literally one of the most boring games of chess on the fighting game market at the moment
Honestly, the gameplay being good was the only thing that ever seemed to resemble a consensus (outside of the botched launch and messy shit in general). I've seen so many people say "the gameplay is good, but there's not enough content for me to justify buying the game at 60 dollars". I mean, just look at that big SFV thread a few weeks ago where the title was something like "Maybe SFV gameplay wasn't good after all?" and just look at the responses. The overwhelming majority of people thought the gameplay was good, even the people that personally don't like the game or haven't bought it for other reasons.
And it's a fucking Street Fighter game. Just about every SF game since SF2 got hated on as much as this. Doesn't mean I consider them bad games. Hell, SF3 was shitted on when it came out and that's a beloved game in the FGC now.
sixteen-bit
Member
Indeed. I think it's safe to say Capcom knocked the gameplay (balance is subjective) out of the park and it was clearly the part of the game they spent the most time and money on.
Isn't that what pro players have wanted all along? No variablity/randomness to matches, no gimmicks... just chess played with fight sticks and pads?
If that's what people disliked about SFV then Season 2 is a vast improvement because it upped the variability and gimmicks a ton. Matches can flip at the drop of a hat. You got characters who can just gimmick you V trigger mix ups/combos like Ibuki, Balrog, Urien and Laura.
But that's also what is being criticized the most about SFV at the moment... that dying to a couple of mix ups isn't fun and interactive.
I think it's possible. I'll get the ball rolling with an easy one - every FG must run at 60fps?
Good netcode.
An art style that doesn't put you on the FBI's radar.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
nigga HELL no
8 way airdash
assists
magneto
edit::
magneto's cool idle stance where he leaves afterimages of his kung fu wavy hands
Damn you just disqualified 95% of fighting games.
that kills the remaining 5%
notworksafe
Member
an ice clone that works properly
95% of fighting games are trash according to FGW, news at 11.
Your favorite fighting game is trash, my favorite fighting game is godlike that everyone should be playing and should be at EVO.
Still better ratio of garbage to good than anime.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Everybody's list would be a list of stuff they find enjoyable and value in a competitive environment. They would all be different.
KidA Seven
Member
If they knocked the gameplay out of the park, why is it that you hear more complaints from the hardcore crowd? Balance is probably the least subjective aspect of the game. We can just look at tournament results and from them we can see that the game is well balanced.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
this is like all the FGW posts boiled down to its pure essence. Everything is bad except my fave, also anime is trash.
notworksafe
Member
come to discord, anime is king there
its terrible
its terrible
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
There needs to be proper tools to counter all that type of stuff for it to exist in the first place, without it it's still a stiff game that plays out as expected. Hell tbh give the game back invincible backdashes
Capcom's honor left undefended
(i kid, i kid. i think your question just ends up in list of "what makes a technically competent AAA game in 2017" which doesn't help answer anything. plus a lot of my fav PS1 era fighting games are janky as fuck in technical areas so in the end the subjective stuff is what makes people love and remember a game.)
why limit to fighting games
this is literally every genre and game series community. (well maybe not the Souls community, they're too busy moaning Soouuuuuuuuuuuulssssssss and entering other game threads to say "play Souls instead")
I think you have got it the wrong way round. The hardcore crowd actually love the core gameplay but when they think thier character is buffed/nerfed that's when it becomes cloudy, subjective and at times biased. That's why I don't like tier lists because it encourages players to use that as a scapegoat.
KidA Seven
Member
I don't have it backwards. Balance can be checked through tournament results. It's obvious that it is fairly balanced.
People are complaining about SFV being boring to play and watch. This is where you're confused. The recent complaints about season 2 balance has more to do with Capcom taking away options away from the characters, therefore making them more boring. For example, Nash can no longer play like how Infil played him last season. Nemo switched to Urien, not because Urien is top tier, but because everything he found fun about claw in season 1 was taken away. This was Daigo's initial thought about season 2 as well. The reason why he wanted more buffs to the lower tier characters is because he wanted those characters to be as fun to play as someone like Guile or Urien. Fang was ass in season 1 and in season 2. People are complaining that they didn't make him better, but the overall tier list is largely still good. Characters were just shifted. You also have Art who has been defending SFV the whole time until recently. He wanted the game to be more neutral based, but it didn't turn out that way. So his complaints about the balance changes are more to do with the style of gameplay it's promoting.
Sure there are complaints about balance, but the main take away from this recent topic is that characters in SFV need to stop feeling neutered. That is what prompted Core-A's recent balance video. Objectively the balance is great and the tournament results will likely keep showing this in season 2.
Here is the recent talk on Ultrachentv as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz29_rnjEb4
In the end, I will continue to support SFV because I just like the community and the series too much, but it's not like I'm happy with the way the game is. It's disappointing that the game will always be a case of "what if."
SFV is easily more balanced than most entries in the series, at least the first iterations. Like, I don't even think that is subjective. You can just look at top 8 results from every CPT event last year. SFV has much more character variety than SF4 did or even Third Strike. The top tiers in SFV aren't anywhere near as good relative to the rest of the cast like they often were for SF4 and Third Strike.
This is a weird characteristic of the FGC where players think the majority of fighting games are unplayable garbage while the two or three fighting games they like are the only good ones. It's like a more esoteric version of music snobbery.
The truth is that fighting games are an unpopular genre, by default, the eight or so companies still making them tend to be pretty skilled at it and turn out fighting games with solid design. They may be boring or poorly balanced but the gameplay usually isn't a trainwreck. Even NRS stepped up their game even if I, personally, can't get behind their janky ass fighters.
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