I need a moment to reflex on this.
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Fighting Games Weekly | 4/20-26 | Beowulf Wrasslin', Mewtwo Smashin', Netkode Krashin
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I need a moment to reflex on this.
Also PS, I don't think it's a good thing that some players deal with this and end up just not doing much, I think it's bad and try to encourage and do things (obvious with the pushing I do), but it is rough in this environment so I'm not going to blame anybody.
Edit, I also get the feeling my opinion is moot since I'm not out winning tournaments. The only thing I can claim is I'm good enough at Persona to practice with our best and compete, but oh well. My perspective is from somebody trying to climb this mountain and get better, and then I just ending up feeling like the ones with me are too few to keep going up.
Edit, I also get the feeling my opinion is moot since I'm not out winning tournaments. The only thing I can claim is I'm good enough at Persona to practice with our best and compete, but oh well. My perspective is from somebody trying to climb this mountain and get better, and then I just ending up feeling like the ones with me are too few to keep going up.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Just want to post and say, making videogames is hard. So much backend stuff.
Thank you for this thread to keep me entertained.
Thank you for this thread to keep me entertained.
VF4 vanilla had it on consoles via "advice" (you're missing too many throw escapes, most of your damage is coming from mids etc)
VF4EVO had it too but on a smaller scale
dunno if it was in VF5 vanilla
SloaneRisette
Member
Anne's super smart and on point
what am i supposed to see here?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Keep on being you, senpai!
Lostconfused
Member
This is the problem. Winning tournaments to do what in this case? Provide credibility, legitimize your opinion?
Do you need acceptance and approval from stream monsters or the scene in general?
Previously in the thread we accepted the axiom that credibility is not actually important because the audience will reject any statement that goes against their sensibilities no matter what their status or credentials are.
Edit: Honestly I am sorry that there aren't as many people out there to enjoy your favorite game with, please try not to get to down about it.
Thomasorus
Member
Didn't remember this, thanks.
Also Anne post rocks. Juicebox's posts too but we already knew. This problem exists also in Europe for anime games. It was even more present when there was no online.
KidA Seven
Member
I have no idea how it works. That's why I only said "looks cool." lol
I'm guessing it works like the card system in Japanese arcades, but for streaming? I'm not exactly sure.
Karsticles
Member
AnneFrank and Juicebox, I have enjoyed reading your posts.
When did you turn human?
Juicebox_FGC
Member
Thanks to the people who read that long thing and enjoyed it. Just throwing some things out there.
If you wanna know why I want it to be acknowledged in some way, is I want the people in the competition to be aware of how it is, because it's fixable moving forward. We just gotta be honest a bit. I don't want it to be construed as me not liking the scene btw, people like think I hate all the anime players and blah blah. I am frustrated, sure, but I have fun with a lot of stuff and people and the games :>
If you wanna know why I want it to be acknowledged in some way, is I want the people in the competition to be aware of how it is, because it's fixable moving forward. We just gotta be honest a bit. I don't want it to be construed as me not liking the scene btw, people like think I hate all the anime players and blah blah. I am frustrated, sure, but I have fun with a lot of stuff and people and the games :>
Honestly, most of the issues with the anime FG communities stems from its size. It makes the upper echelons of players harrowingly small, and it hurts development in other ways, such as online play. Between the average distance between players and the speed of the games, online play in something like P4AU or UNIEL is just not good enough. While the netcode is better than SF4's (yeesh), any gains are lost in the faster pace of the games and the thinner player base (which means it's less likely to have players who are at your skill level AND close enough to have a decent connection).
I can't really blame players for focusing on combos and mixups, as they tend to provide the best value (in terms of something like some theoretical concept of Expected Wins) for the lowest effort. Whereas things like being able to read opponents and make adjustments to your playstyle and strategy take a lot more work and experience to get good at for a much smaller return. And when the pool of players to hone those skills on is vanishingly small... what's the point?
Honestly, though? There's nothing wrong with people enjoying the game and the community and making the decision to only put in X amount of effort (for whatever their own goals may be). I can see how it would be frustrating for players who want to push themselves and the game to their absolute limits (especially if that's all they have).
I can't really blame players for focusing on combos and mixups, as they tend to provide the best value (in terms of something like some theoretical concept of Expected Wins) for the lowest effort. Whereas things like being able to read opponents and make adjustments to your playstyle and strategy take a lot more work and experience to get good at for a much smaller return. And when the pool of players to hone those skills on is vanishingly small... what's the point?
Honestly, though? There's nothing wrong with people enjoying the game and the community and making the decision to only put in X amount of effort (for whatever their own goals may be). I can see how it would be frustrating for players who want to push themselves and the game to their absolute limits (especially if that's all they have).
Karsticles
Member
I think people practice combos and setups because they know how to do it. How do you even "practice reads" if you aren't aware of such a thing? I've seen plenty of people that just aren't aware of the concept of habits, and if you're insulated you won't change that.
I also wonder re: anime FGC - is the limitation on growth due to the games, or the update/release policies? I know that getting games 6 months to a year later turns me off from them from a competitive aspect. I want to figure stuff out on my own, not just search for videos of what I should be doing.
I also wonder re: anime FGC - is the limitation on growth due to the games, or the update/release policies? I know that getting games 6 months to a year later turns me off from them from a competitive aspect. I want to figure stuff out on my own, not just search for videos of what I should be doing.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Lost Confused broke JuiceBox just as he became a member.
Sometimes, its fun to play stupid or stupid play is fun, win or lose. On the last GiantBomb Jeff has trouble dealing with the playstyle of Dan while he is able to understand the more measure people playing the same character.
I am just an enthusiast that loves how granular and thoughtful people are about games, especially vs games. I hope Juice finds the joy of competition or type of challenge he has been looking for.
Sometimes, its fun to play stupid or stupid play is fun, win or lose. On the last GiantBomb Jeff has trouble dealing with the playstyle of Dan while he is able to understand the more measure people playing the same character.
I am just an enthusiast that loves how granular and thoughtful people are about games, especially vs games. I hope Juice finds the joy of competition or type of challenge he has been looking for.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Agree 100% with Annel Frank, except applied to Europe.
There's a reason the top French were (and continue to be) by and large ahead of the top UK players these past few years: they got forced to play at a higher level. I think their community is generally harder working at the top - Gagapa, Cuongster, Louffy, Alioune.
I think the UK scene is way too online-centric to really promote strong growth. It's a sad state when six years after SF4's release, nobody's really managed to get close to dethroning Ryan as the best. You get folks who show up who are good to great, and there are a few players who are excellent in their own right. But Ryan - and Louffy etc - seem to be just an inch out their reach. I think it might just be because they're not being forced to get better. Maybe it's more than just that, though.
Compare this to Smash Melee. You HAVE to play offline. You HAVE to travel to events and tournaments. You HAVE to have the hunger. Result? Leffen and Armada.
There are a few who are very close, though, in SF4. Problem and Andreas stick out most to me at the moment. I'd also like to see Infexious, Fuzzy and a few others at more tournaments.
There's a reason the top French were (and continue to be) by and large ahead of the top UK players these past few years: they got forced to play at a higher level. I think their community is generally harder working at the top - Gagapa, Cuongster, Louffy, Alioune.
I think the UK scene is way too online-centric to really promote strong growth. It's a sad state when six years after SF4's release, nobody's really managed to get close to dethroning Ryan as the best. You get folks who show up who are good to great, and there are a few players who are excellent in their own right. But Ryan - and Louffy etc - seem to be just an inch out their reach. I think it might just be because they're not being forced to get better. Maybe it's more than just that, though.
Compare this to Smash Melee. You HAVE to play offline. You HAVE to travel to events and tournaments. You HAVE to have the hunger. Result? Leffen and Armada.
There are a few who are very close, though, in SF4. Problem and Andreas stick out most to me at the moment. I'd also like to see Infexious, Fuzzy and a few others at more tournaments.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Speaking of competition, where's Markman at? I need him to tell his boy FilthieRich that I'm offering Jojo's lessons now.
Weren't we trying for Newark??
Anime release schedule and small install base do hurt it a lot, ye. Plus a lot of the current install base isn't competitive at all (think just anime fans and stuff), which is fine, just not for the purposes of competitive play.
Also yeah, you get a lot of return in anime games for just learning combos and then setting plays, hence people gravitate towards them instead of player vs player type stuff. The games aren't always bad in the sense of oh you can just do that and win, but since you can get a lot of reward from people who can't out think you at a basic level, you can just run it for awhile. I had that problem with Aigis actually, then the top P4U players took turns beating the shit out of me until I became more thoughtful.
Also yeah, you get a lot of return in anime games for just learning combos and then setting plays, hence people gravitate towards them instead of player vs player type stuff. The games aren't always bad in the sense of oh you can just do that and win, but since you can get a lot of reward from people who can't out think you at a basic level, you can just run it for awhile. I had that problem with Aigis actually, then the top P4U players took turns beating the shit out of me until I became more thoughtful.
Shouta
Member
I think that's pretty far for Art. He said JFK was OK but I got him La Guardia for the flight back.
irfaanator
Banned
is he putting "The Neo" in his gamertag?
I still think we should get Ogawa and Art to put GAF in their tags on stream.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Are you flamebaiting stream chat on purpose or what
Shouta
Member
It's dabest
Tell me it wouldn't be glorious.
EDIT: Shouta, I'm gonna get Khaos to do that btw. Especially during Top 8.
irfaanator
Banned
cant let rkappa have all the glory
Lostconfused
Member
I didn't even post here anything memorable enough to develop a reputation, are you people serious.
sixteen-bit
Member
fixed
hate us cause they ain't us
Technically, another GAFer did chip in on Art.
Actually, I'll give you like $20 extra tomorrow and "chip in" on all of them?
Karsticles
Member
KidA Seven
Member
Don't do it Shouta.
Shouta
Member
I have it as Ogawa Eddie since it's his twitter handle. we'll probably change it when he gets here, lol
How mad will Chris and you get at me if I get Slash to add GAF to Dogura / Ogawa / Arturo?
I would desperately want a Dogura / Ogawa GF...
irfaanator
Banned
agree with your posts. I also believe the crappy internet infrastructure and just how big the US just puts us at a general disadvantage compared to others. If it takes 500$ on a flight alone for me from the midwest to vegas/west coast for a tourney that's a big investment.
Shouta
Member
I'll ask them if they want to put it on, lol You can ask Art. =P
KK, will do.
EDIT: I will have good sake / wine / scotch / rum if that would aid in your conversation with Dogura and Ogawa. Also, it's legit if I use some of those things to grease the wheels with Art, right?
SloaneRisette
Member
The anger it would incite would be fantastic