I'll probably show up with my scrubby Yang.
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Fighting Games Weekly |8/17-23| It was a little beta this time.
- Thread starter "God's Beard!"
- Start date
biosnake20
Member
Fighting Games Weekly | Straight Outta Weeklies
Too soon.
sixteen-bit
Member
gotta use the
ZeroTheShadow
Member
First of all you don't cancel into a sidestep you cancel into crouch. It's not weird you do the same shit in Marvel. Dash, cancel the animation with a crouch, dash again. The input is just reverse SRK for god sakes. Is that really so hard? Vf movement is stiff as fuck compared to Tekken. Tekken's movement system allows you to move accurately in 3D plane how you want, when you want, safetly. Most depth to a movement system in any game. Marvel is the only other game that comes close imo.
Soul Calibur used to have a good movement system till they nerfed it after 2.
You understand that they nerfed sidestep movement in Tekken 7 because lateral movement was super strong right? Of course you don't. High level players like JDCR were walking around everything so they nerfed it.
CountBlack
Member
i did not ask about tekken 7.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people haven't read-up on the various execution tricks.
For example, I just learned last week that I could hold down a button to disable special cancels but still get command normals, which makes stuff like 2k2UM Iori 6LP xx super easy as can be. I.e.: inputting cl.[HP] 236LP]HP[ 3214[HP] makes it undroppable for me compared to before, when I was squeezing the whole super motion after 6LP to avoid cancelling into fireball.
That said, there are still some tough links and confirms in KOF, and some drive cancels that require incredible precise stick motions.
I'd definitely count hops/hyper hops an execution barrier. It's two(actually 3 with super jump) extra mobility options to use in neutral that are extremely integral to the game. That automatically makes it an execution barrier.
I've seen a few people say they're a bit hard to do, especially on stick.
stn
Member
I've played all the major fighters out there. For a guy who plays on pad I have pretty decent execution, especially after I put a bit of practice into something. I also have a natural knack for figuring out shortcuts and the easiest way to perform certain moves. And despite all this I still think that KOF has difficult execution.
The hops are tricky to use in neutral, some of the combos are very difficult, and even the trials are ridiculously hard. To me, moderate-level combos in KOF feel like the hardest combos in SF4. I definitely hope that KOF14 is easier on the thumbs.
The hops are tricky to use in neutral, some of the combos are very difficult, and even the trials are ridiculously hard. To me, moderate-level combos in KOF feel like the hardest combos in SF4. I definitely hope that KOF14 is easier on the thumbs.
GotchaForce
Member
Where you seeing this at?
ShinMaruku
Member
When you have to use alt accounts to get into a test you know you are harming the results of the test just get your play in right?
It's the opposite for me. I think the games are great but the movement is the biggest execution barrier I've ever run into. No hyperbole.
Always in the mind set that i am glued to the ground from Tekken and other 3D fighters to a smaller degree so i gotta get out of my default state always to play games with many types of jumps. Always try to stay grounded subconsiously.
I just wanted to see if I could do it. Besides, I just wanted training mode.
It's the dash canceling that's killing me, I can never seem to do it "right."
ShinMaruku
Member
Fair enough.
I just want their tests to give them good info. But this is looking like they are narrowing it down.
Indeed. I automatically train my movement. Since the the amount of skill you can learn in just movement alone is so much there is always improving space. Playing Jinpachi i don't even know why i keep up with it since he is a tank.
Juicebox_FGC
Member
The speed of KOF compounds the execution issue. It only takes a few minutes to learn how to hop, but applying it in matches is something else.
Hopping and hyperhopping in KOF are like special moves in other games. Using them without knowing why just leads to you getting destroyed a lot of the time.
Hopping and hyperhopping in KOF are like special moves in other games. Using them without knowing why just leads to you getting destroyed a lot of the time.
ShinMaruku
Member
Healthier than Marvel.
eh, we're not ready to puff out our chests yet. but last weekend was amazing and these guys are my family.
It's pretty much the same way I look at Tekken. It's just back/forward-dashing, sidestep/sidewalk-ing, and then crouch-cancelling. I personally feel Tekken's stigma just makes people assume it's movement is super complicated. To me the movement is conceptually simple, just has an execution barrier at the highest levels... just like KOF honestly. But in the end, the amount of control you have of your character in Tekken once you reach a certain level of execution within a 3D space is unprecedented.
The challenge in Tekken is learning, understanding, and properly applying all of the different options and mechanics the game presents you like the numerous ways of getting up off the ground, the different methods to evade a character in the z axis, the different types of stuns depending on the stage along with their inmplications, etc. which I admit is a large volume load compared to any other fighting game. I am willing to accept there's an information barrier.
But moral of the story is, Tekken is not that complicated. Guilty Gear IMO is a harder and more complicated game than Tekken.
EDIT:
Tekken was at it's most popular in Tekken Tag 1 where the game was FAR more unforgiving with how important movement was compared to now. That's not the reason Tekken is waning in population.... it's all the recycling Namco is doing with the series. People want to see the game's look and feel evolve similar to how Mortal Kombat redid their entire cast between MK9 and MKX. Once Namco does this, and Tekken's popularity continues it's downward trend, then I'll agree with you that the problem could be its movement.
I'm OK with them changing the movement however, but what I don't want is to lose control of the character which seems to be the direction they're going with Tekken 7 by removing step-guarding.
Very fitting.
shaowebb
Member
We have a winner.
ShinMaruku
Member
And that is why I said healthier. I always will rate scenes who ar elike family and built themselves outside of the capcom fgc apperatus and can last like that very highly.
notworksafe
Member
And that is why I said healthier. I always will rate scenes who ar elike family and built themselves outside of the capcom fgc apperatus and can last like that very highly.
Why does this matter?
You live in one of the greatest cities that do fighting game centric weeklies... We shouldn't hear this from you
Iv been playing fighting games since TEKKEN 2, and I have always used SONYS original game pad with each console generation, the thing is, I cant for the life of me play on the PS3/PS4 pad.
~2/10 times I try to do a foreword/back dash (foreword, foreword/back, back) the pad registers one input as UP.
Without saying this really screws up gameplay.
Give me a PS1/PS1 DS/PSONE DS/PS2 pad, and this never happens.
Iv been playing with my PS2 pad and an adapter on the last generation of consoles.
Is there something wrong with the precision in the PS3/4 pads?
Or is it just a matter of a minor change in component alignment that makes it so I have to re-adjust my hand/thumb?
Trying to get older PS pads is starting to become somewhat of a hassle, and getting a IL free adapters is even harder.
~2/10 times I try to do a foreword/back dash (foreword, foreword/back, back) the pad registers one input as UP.
Without saying this really screws up gameplay.
Give me a PS1/PS1 DS/PSONE DS/PS2 pad, and this never happens.
Iv been playing with my PS2 pad and an adapter on the last generation of consoles.
Is there something wrong with the precision in the PS3/4 pads?
Or is it just a matter of a minor change in component alignment that makes it so I have to re-adjust my hand/thumb?
Trying to get older PS pads is starting to become somewhat of a hassle, and getting a IL free adapters is even harder.
sixteen-bit
Member
not like u can chip kill with it tho
Step guarding is still in Tekken 7. You just need a bigger window of time to use it. They basically buffed + frames.
Also, VF's movement is pretty much binary, which I actually like about it. You get consistent results thanks to it. No matter how heavy your disadvantage in the frames are, so long as it's not a punish on block situation, you can sidestep the attacks that don't track. The only time this gets complex is when you start to work in the crouch dash canceling on failed evades, but at the end of the day, when you successfully evade, you have very consistent options based on the recovery of the attack that you evaded.
Tekken's movement system, although the most convoluted a obtuse shit out there, is one of the most satisfying to get down at a high level. Before Tekken 7, it was the kind of thing that you needed to turn a character with an 80+ movelist into a character with a 10 movelist. I can see the appeal of this. It's probably one of the best examples of adapting actual real life combat sports fighting into a video game, since it's almost 100% about cutting angles.
My beef is that you only have .000001% of the actual playerbase getting to a level where they are actually using it properly, so who REALLY gives a shit? It's not like Tekken tournaments has viewers coming out of the woodwork to watch these players trying to cut angles and bait whiffs so they can score launchers and do half life +. People typically don't even like watching this fighting style play out in actual combat sports, so why should they give a shit when it's in a video game?
You know what was bringing the hype for viewers at the Tekken 7 EVO tournament though? Slo motion camera effects, and well timed super moves. Funny how that worked out.
I think Tekken's movement and recycling are all tied together. The moves are designed around the same old shit. To stop recycling, they'd have to totally rethink the game.
All part of the same problem, imo. You can't just change the movement in Tekken (or any game) without taking into account how all the moves work.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Blocked specials do grey health damage too I'm pretty sure.
The only thing you can chip people to death with is critical art.
I heard tekken 4 was a big shake up for the series that didn't go well. Maybe that's scared them into sticking to what worked.
And Namco can't rethink Tekken because it's so tied into an arcade culture over there which is hyper-resistant to change. The Tekken diehards don't want their 20 years of training to go to waste.
I would say kof is a but trickier but it all really comes down to practice with it all. To keep my execution up I'll pop in kof and practice Ralf 100% combos (not the most difficult) and hops, I don't have a local scene but learning and practicing those helps other games execution I've found.
Getting into it I would say kof takes a little longer to get the feel of it over tekken.
Kof confirms (depending on the character) aren't the most difficult but the window is a bit smaller it feels like, Kim or shen wu for example usually you can confirm 2 d.lk xx HD which isn't that difficult but tales practice.
You're wrong there. Tekken 5 had a plethora of brand new animations, art, and mechanics over Tekken Tag Tournament 1 while retaining the Korean backdash cancelling movement system. That was a game where Tekken was still incredibly popular and everyone played it. It's just that ever since Tekken 5 we've been seeing the same stuff like what you see here:
Tekken never recycled art like that before and people want to see some evolution again like what happened with T1 -> T5.