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Fighting Games Weekly |8/17-23| It was a little beta this time.

Nyoro SF

Member
I did an interview with SEGA.

Sorry oneida, it wasn't about Virtua Fighter... but here's a piece for you perhaps.

Nyoro: It’s true that SEGA is most known for Virtua Fighter…

Sam: Exactly. Which is our more technical 3D fighting games. Fighting Climax is in a big contrast to this game as a 2D fighting game. With Virtua Fighter, it takes a lot of investment; you could spend a lot of time on one character and still not have a full grasp of what they’re capable of. DFC has a lot more up-front accessibility where all the flashiness is available right from the start for any player.

And confirmation of cross-region netplay support for DFC.

Nyoro: In regards to changes made per region…

Sam: So another thing to mention is that the online play has cross region support, for all players who want to play each other overseas.

Nyoro: That is actually considered to be a default feature in fighting games. It is very rare for the netplay of a fighter to be region locked. It’s still very good news though.

Sam: Well, it seems obvious, but it may not be! Another example is that in the Japanese version, there are custom titles you can set that can be viewed as you fight online together. We had to make sure that if an English speaker connected to a Japanese speaker that they didn’t see something unintelligible on their screen and vice versa. We could have left them as Japanese but we translated them all to English for everyone to use. This also involved us making sure that the titles viewed are cross-compatible in both languages.

Nyoro: So very similar to Persona 4 Arena Ultimax!

Sam: Yes.
 

Shouta

Member
Nothing in that video disproves what I said. I'm well aware there has been movement tech in VF but it pales in comparison to Tekken in every way. I am talking about the basic movement options available to all characters as well. If I were to make a video covering every movement technique ever in Tekken from hiashita, to haha the video would be like 10 minutes long.

You can also see in that video my earlier point about the lack of verticle movement in VF compared to Tekken.

Please forgive me for the lack of posts explaining my thoughts but I'm trapped on mobile for the time being & even this post tool forever & was a pain to write.

This is only a small sampling of movement in VF. There is a ton of movement in the 3D plane for VF as well but abusing it is discouraged through the circular and half circular moves amongst the cast. You still see it used though, just not in close. Just before I stopped playing I would often stair step myself into position for wall splats or a carry.
 
Looks like Asia/Japan is getting their closed beta on the 22nd and 23rd.

CM5evdMUwAAaExk.jpg
 

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
hey oneida you know how you can hit kick then guard real quick to cancel the animation in vf? is that useful in any way? it seems like a cool way to get someone to flinch and block so you can grab them like an aoi cancel or something

i saw one dude do it . he follows up with guard break its pretty cool.

https://youtu.be/2xMpjVepTnc?t=2m37s
it's primarily used at frame advantage to make your opponents freeze, so anti-guard stuff like guard breaks or throws are the standard follow up. you can do kick(guard) 3k if you think your opponent has amazing reactions, which would beat their attempt to crouch after kick(guard).

I have seen K(G) used by jp players as a sort of fuzzy guard, basically active frames of kick cause throw to fail while guarding is instantaneous so you still block the slower mid.

I am not convinced this actually works that well though.
 

Manbig

Member
This is only a small sampling of movement in VF. There is a ton of movement in the 3D plane for VF as well but abusing it is discouraged through the circular and half circular moves amongst the cast. You still see it used though, just not in close. Just before I stopped playing I would often stair step myself into position for wall splats or a carry.

As I said earlier, this is the main difference between VF and Tekken. For all of those fancy movements, the evade system in VF up close is still a very binary thing. Failed evade canceling aside, you either trigger a successful evade, or you don't. The way that axis effects attacks in Tekken is very different and it's far more about cutting the exact right angles to make certain things whiff. It isn't simply a mater of "this move tracks to this side." In Tekken, there's several classifications for how a move tracks. A few examples

- Moves that track versus sidestep, but lose to sidewalk.

- Moves that track wide characters (Jack, Marduk) well, but lose out to most of the rest of the cast's sidesteps.

- Moves that only lose to sidestep/walk if you begin your movement in the later frames of their animation.

- Moves that cannot be sidestep in certain - frames, like jabs beating step at around -5/-6, or any semi fast linear mid beating out sidestepping at around -7 to -9.

- Homing moves.

Combine all of that with how important of a part your character's axis is when you actually throw out an attack or are trying to evade one. For example, Marduk's d+4 is a very fast low poke that typically has fantastic tracking to Marduk's right. However, if he gets into a situation where a Steve player moves a bit off axis towards Marduk's right before the Marduk player throws out the d4, Steve can actually do another sidestep towards his right and cancel it right into his sway right and it will snake him around the d4. So you also have this situation where you have to completely rethink how to use your tracking moves in an off axis situation. Typically this involves dashing a bit or sidestepping to realign before throwing out your attacks, but that's just getting into the layers of depth.

Simply put, there's a lot going on here. It's not simply a matter of dealing with half circular or full circular moves. I am aware that VF has some of this going on too, but not anywhere near the depths that Tekken goes to with it.

Also please note that I'm not in any way saying that this makes Tekken better than VF. Personally, I think it's not a good thing that Tekken goes down these absurd depths. It pretty much is the reason that using option select movement is the absolute king of playstyles in Tekken, and if you're not aiming to get on the level of memorizing all of these match up specific option select movements and the timing required to use them on a character by character basis in a game that has historically had a bloated cast, then you're simply not going to compete at the highest level.
 

Kumubou

Member
Also please note that I'm not in any way saying that this makes Tekken better than VF. Personally, I think it's not a good thing that Tekken goes down these absurd depths. It pretty much is the reason that using option select movement is the absolute king of playstyles in Tekken, and if you're not aiming to get on the level of memorizing all of these match up specific option select movements and the timing required to use them on a character by character basis in a game that has historically had a bloated cast, then you're simply not going to compete at the highest level.
There's another thing to this that I think that causes issues for a lot of Tekken players that have not put a ton of time into the game. All of those factors, while completely deterministic, can seem random as hell. Why can I sidestep a move in one situation but not another? Is it due to a difference in frame advantage? Was it because I was slightly off-axis? is it because of the character I'm playing? The phase of the moon? Who knows (unless it's a homing move, then you're just going to get clipped anyway). At least in VF situations like that, even the dumb looking ones (like where a super linear string will suddenly track 90 degrees around at times) are consistent and can be understood by anyone with a grasp of the game's systems.
 
Manny did a pretty good job of saying what I was going to say. Lateral movement in Tekken(even in it's Tekken 7 state) has tons of wrinkles to it. It's so liberating to play, the freedom you have with movement in Tekken. There is nothing like it in fighting games. I love it and that's one of the reasons it's the only fighting game I "main".
 

soakrates

Member
Tekken's cool, but its movement system is absurdly obtuse at times because there's just so much rote memorization involved. The movement in VF might not be as technical, but it's a good deal more intuitive and doesn't require me to have a ton of situational knowledge stored up. Just take me straight to the mind games please.
 
Tekken's cool, but its movement system is absurdly obtuse at times because there's just so much rote memorization involved. The movement in VF might not be as technical, but it's a good deal more intuitive and doesn't require me to have a ton of situational knowledge stored up. Just take me straight to the mind games please.

How is it obtuse? Everything is with SRK motions, double tapping a direction, or holding a direction. Is playing footsies in SF and uppercutting a jump in obtuse?
 

Rhapsody

Banned
Is Taokaka just Valkenhayn without Wolf meter? Is there any reason to play Valk instead of Tao?

Not really. Tao's pressure's pretty good compared to regular Valkenhayn. Valk in wolf form though, some of the best mixups in the game.
In Extend he's a lot stronger than Tao, but he definitely has that learning curve.
 

Anne

Member
Is Taokaka just Valkenhayn without Wolf meter? Is there any reason to play Valk instead of Tao?

They are two completely different characters. The only thing they have in common is they are both animals and they both have movement creep.

Valk is a contender for best char in the game, his neutral is much more about flying at people and then he has un-reactable high low mix up for days. His goal is to fly at you, convert into knockdown, run unblockable mix up.

Tao's neutral is a lot more abou ther trying to put herself over somebody's head and is a bit more subdued, she just tries to move until somebody falls into a situation like that. Once Tao makes you block, she doesn't really actively mix you up like that. She has a fuzzy guard loop on standing opponents which is bullshit, but once you're downbacking it's just pressure. Her pressure is insane in the fact she can basically reset it at will, but she's either trying to hit you for escaping or throwing. Her overhead is super slow, but it's + on block and leads to a fun mix up on RC.

Two very different characters that just both have exceptional movement and conversions. Their gameplans and style of play are really different.
 
I'd take Tekken over Street Fighter anyday.

The ability to side step adds an entire new layer to fighting.

It really doesn't surprise me when Devil Jins lazers completely miss me. I can see the same thing happening with Hadoukens and other SF projectiles.
 

alstein

Member
The KOF dodge is really a type of sidestep.

I always wonder (and Genesis VF doesn't count) what a 2D fighter that really tried to simulate a 3D fighter would look and feel like.
 
So played a lot of SF5 and could try Cammy and Birdie last night.
Birdie is dope. Everyone explained how buttons are good and all so I won't do it again. What is very well done with this character is the animations. When he was revealed I thought about him as a fool/gluttonus character and didn't like it much. But once you start to play him you realize the character stops being a joke once the match starts. His movement animations express it the best: the backwalk has him look at you while smacking his fists, the forward walk animation he looks bored and walks to you casually as if you meant nothing. And the crouch stance he has his head back and looks at you with condescension. There's a lot of other small details like this that makes him cool and you feel that even if he slacked and gain weight, he's still a guy you would not bother. He is not like Rufus that you can't take seriously.

Cammy on the other hand is a bit meh. I don't like the changes they made to her normals (she feels not complete) the character feels like it has no weight and is too light. The 3D model is cool but the animations are strange like the idle. Cammy was one of the few characters I liked in SF4 as her moves and animations reflected the methodical and precise killer she was before. In SF5 I feel like they want her to become a more violent/in your face character that poured too much strenght into her attacks: she fells on the ground after spinal arrow instead of finishing on her feet, the down MK makes her scrape the ground instead of poking precisely. When she walks forward she covers her face as if she was a boxer... Not sure if I like that. Maybe they wanted to make her look more resolved or differenciate her with Chun-li who has a very precise/mastered moveset that reflects in her animations... but it changes the character a lot.
 

Zissou

Member
I'd take Tekken over Street Fighter anyday.

The ability to side step adds an entire new layer to fighting.

It really doesn't surprise me when Devil Jins lazers completely miss me. I can see the same thing happening with Hadoukens and other SF projectiles.

A fighter being 3D or 2D has little to do with it's depth or quality.
 
I always liked that "slide into background" option Real Bout Fatal Fury had, looked really cool to evade moves and punish with it. Guilty Gear Isuka had something similar but that game was garbage with it's manual turn-around button.
 

Numb

Member
These guys got some seriously well groomed facial hair. Impressive.
I see lots of Tekken people which is expected. Justin is probably just trying it out.Oh they said it's invitational.
Is there a Naruto scene and are interested in this? Seems like their bread.
 

pixelish

Member
aris mentioned on stream a few times that he was supposed to go to a secret esports event this week but he got 'fired' at the last minute. i guess he was actually invited to this pokken exhibition and nintendo realised he will kill esports lol
 

Numb

Member
aris mentioned on stream a few times that he was supposed to go to a secret esports event this week but he got 'fired' at the last minute. i guess he was actually invited to this pokken exhibition and nintendo realised he will kill esports lol

Hehe most likely. Didn't want any of the flowers he was selling.
RIP might do some commentary or they might just go with pokemon people who know the moves and whatnot.
 
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