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[Lost Fragment]

Is it ethical for major publishers to start kick starters for less popular games? Like if Capcom decided that they didn't have enough budget for a good DS4 game without losing money on it or making a bad game so they start a DS4 kickstarter and each milestone is another character, stage, mode added to the game.

I don't know, but it would definitely be controversial in a similar way that some DLC is controversial. It would be hard for companies to prove that they wouldn't be able to make a game without using kickstarter, just like it's hard for them to prove that they wouldn't have been able to budget for certain content for games without the promise of DLC revenue.

 

[Dahbomb]

If Capcom had done a kickstarter for MML3 and it had reached its goal but then Capcom cancelled it anyway taking the money... that would be fucked up beyond all recognition.

I don't know, but it would definitely be controversial in a similar way that some DLC is controversial. It would be hard for companies to prove that they wouldn't be able to make a game without using kickstarter, just like it's hard for them to prove that they wouldn't have been able to budget for certain content for games without the promise of DLC revenue.

That's exactly what I am saying. There is so much grey area here that I can't imagine in the future a major publisher wouldn't try it with some of their lesser franchises.

I mean fucking hell if Capcom put out a kickstarter for DMC:Bloody Palace edition I would pledge $1000 day 1.

 

[SolarPowered]

If Capcom had done a kickstarter for MML3 and it had reached its goal but then Capcom cancelled it anyway taking the money... that would be fucked up beyond all recognition.

That would be grounds for some sweet legal action, I think.

 

[number47]

wow. this fast pace sfxt is amazing.

 

[Dahbomb]

That would be grounds for some sweet legal action, I think.

Sort of like charging people for an unplayable game at launch...

Oh wait...




Honzo Gonzo breaking down the UMVC3 pools for NCR (players to watch out for and stuff):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB0q52yF4e0&list=UUcMMa8NvPz9jl0jRxZwLweg&index=1

No troll. Starts at 12 minutes.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

do you guys do law for a living

 

[call_kotaku]

Art's chat for NLBC sorta makes me understand why Spooky went subs-only

I like spam as much as the next guy, but "when's injustice" isn't really funny. You can't even post a good troll or a sentence with Kappa at the end of it before it gets drowned out by all-caps spam.

 

[enzo_gt]

I think everyone agrees. I know the whole Tekken players have real life stuff to deal with is played out for fun but the truth is lots of the Norcal Tekken scene is old and they are busy. Out of all the games to put on Friday, its one of the worst

TTT2 isn't the only game that got fucked, and it's in the evening too, which means it got less fucked compared to the likes of KoF, Persona, etc. People at least get to come home from work.

Not an excuse. Ncr is not bigger.than any of the other big tournaments this year and Tekken was ran Saturday fine at all of those. Ncr fucked Tekken and the community responded by not supporting, end of story

Okay? Not all of those big tournaments this year were 3 days and host to as many games with as many entrants as NCR (notably Smash on top of all the other games). So what is your proposed solution that takes into account all the logistic issues? Bump some other game your not as fond of to Friday "because Tekken"?

 

[Parallax Scroll]

not cross tekken http://www.twitch.tv/fgtvlive

 

[Dahbomb]

There is really no way Divekick should've been given priority over Tekken. Divekick should've been on Friday, Tekken on weekend.

And I am a huge Divekick fan who will be playing it professionally.

 

[toddhunter]

Is it ethical for major publishers to start kick starters for less popular games? Like if Capcom decided that they didn't have enough budget for a good DS4 game without losing money on it or making a bad game so they start a DS4 kickstarter and each milestone is another character, stage, mode added to the game.

Yes it is ethical. The method of funding isn't related to ethics given you have an active choice, only the eventual delivery is. It only becomes a problem if a company over promises or under delivers, but this is not inherent to kickstarter itself. The same thing applies exactly to whatever other source of funding they currently use, internal or external (it is just less public when it all goes wrong).

Where it gets murky is for issues like a UMVC3 patch which I imagine is where you were going with that. At some point people need to accept that they have got thousands of hours out of their $60 game and contributing to further support is acceptable and warranted. However the line to be drawn there would be very open to abuse and would most likely be business suicide if anybody attempted it (no way they could get a fighting game patch 100% right).

Still, as costs increase, some sort of compromise will need to be found to maintain steady revenue streams for fighting games or reduce risks for game development in general. Even F2P or various MMO models at their heart, are variations of traditional funding schemes.

 

[SolarPowered]

Yes it is ethical. The method of funding isn't related to ethics given you have an active choice, only the eventual delivery is. It only becomes a problem if a company over promises or under delivers, but this is not inherent to kickstarter itself. The same thing applies exactly to whatever other source of funding they used, internal or external for all current projects (it is just less public when it all goes wrong).

Where it gets murky is for issues like a UMVC3 patch which I imagine is where you were going with that. At some point people need to accept that they have got thousands of hours out of their $60 game and contributing to further support is acceptable and warranted. However the line to be drawn there would be very open to abuse and would most likely be business suicide if anybody attempted it.

Still, as costs increase, some sort of compromise will need to be found to maintain steady revenue streams for fighting games.

Chargebacks if Lei Lei isn't good enough.

 

[biosnake20]

Art is hype as fuck and this SFxT play is godlike.

 

[Passive Assassin]

Which chars

 

[Shouta]

Art is hype as fuck and this SFxT play is godlike.

Jailhouse vs DragonGod is just basically pushing buttons all over the place, lol.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Noel Brown is at FGTV playing Injustice.

 

[enzo_gt]

There is really no way Divekick should've been given priority over Tekken. Divekick should've been on Friday, Tekken on weekend.

And I am a huge Divekick fan who will be playing it professionally.

What priority? They both have finals early Saturday and Divekick probably got more entrants and it's pools aren't being streamed at all.

Whoever that guy is is pointing the finger at Divekick because he doesn't know where else to point it or give a good reason why.

 

[Passive Assassin]

Tekken is like vf in norcal. Only old people play it seriously here.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Divekick likely does have more entrants than TTT2.

Edit: I haven't looked at the brackets yet.

 

[ZTS]

TTT2 isn't the only game that got fucked, and it's in the evening too, which means it got less fucked compared to the likes of KoF, Persona, etc. People at least get to come home from work.


Okay? Not all of those big tournaments this year were 3 days and host to as many games with as many entrants as NCR (notably Smash on top of all the other games). So what is your proposed solution that takes into account all the logistic issues? Bump some other game your not as fond of to Friday "because Tekken"?

Ncrs turn out isnt even close to warrenting 3 days. Its the weakest road to EVO so far. Your argument is irrelevent.

 

[enzo_gt]

Ncrs turn out isnt even close to warrenting 3 days. Its the weakest road to EVO so far. Your argument is irrelevent.

Where are you getting turnout numbers?

Apex 2013 was running all those games (including Smash, which most other "big" majors cited aren't running, but also had more Smash entrants than any other tournament ever will for obvious reasosn) plus Injustice which is now out and warranted 3 days.

EDIT: Turns out Injustice isn't there, huh. Still, I don't see how you can string out individual bodies that will be there, especially since Smash folks won't overlap with others in the FGC as much and there's 90ish of them alone.

EDIT2: And your still arguing the 3 day format while still suggesting it should've been on the weekend IN that format, yet providing no valid reasons why or responses to that valid argument.

 

[TheThunder]

NCR became "meh" status when no Daigo, no Injustice was confirmed

Spoiler

half joking

 

[Dahbomb]

HonzoGonzo's predictions (first is Winner and second is Losers):

1: FChamp and Hypnawtic
2: Honzo Gonzo >>>>> Xian (although Honzo says that Xian takes Marvel seriously and likes the game a lot... wants to make it his main)
3: Knives and CJshowstopper
4: KaneBlueRiver and KillerKai
5: Apologyman (HonzoGonzo's favorite to defeat Chris Genius) and Y2Jay
6: Ranmasama and Falcomist >>> Floe
7: Taekua and Helix
8: Justin and GCYoshi
9: PRRog and Spiral
10: X Ray and Noel Brown
11: Neo and toss up
12: SexyBeast and Infrit (toss up HiIamNasty)
13: Orion and DrewGrimey
14: Kbeast and FlashMetroid/Rzrbrn
15: Wentinel and Ricky Ortiz
16: ChrisG (heavy favorite to win) and Quasidomo

 

[Sayah]

Where are you getting turnout numbers?

Apex 2013 was running all those games (including Smash, which most other "big" majors cited aren't running, but also had more Smash entrants than any other tournament ever will for obvious reasosn) plus Injustice which is now out and warranted 3 days.

I don't think people had scheduling issues with Apex because it was during winter break. A lot of people going to school were off and free and probably also had an easier time taking off from work as well. NCR is happening right in the middle of final exam season so I can see how it would be a problem for students.

Plus, Apex didn't run Persona, Marvel or Tekken on Friday.

 

[Busaiku]

Where are you getting turnout numbers?

Brackets were posted.

Does NCR not have onsite registration?
If not, then that's a terrible turnout for sure.
If they do, it's still possible a bunch those games could double in terms of entrants.

Yeah, but Apex ran Street Fighter, The King of Fighters, and Soul Calibur on Friday.

 

[MarkMan]

I go to all these tournaments. I can tell you from experience. 3 day tournaments are not the business.

If you have over 2000+ entrants then I can understand.

 

[Deps]

Where are you getting turnout numbers?

Apex 2013 was running all those games (including Smash, which most other "big" majors cited aren't running, but also had more Smash entrants than any other tournament ever will for obvious reasosn) plus Injustice which is now out and warranted 3 days.

EDIT: Turns out Injustice isn't there, huh. Still, I don't see how you can string out individual bodies that will be there, especially since Smash folks won't overlap with others in the FGC as much and there's 90ish of them alone.

EDIT2: And your still arguing the 3 day format while still suggesting it should've been on the weekend IN that format, yet providing no valid reasons why or responses to that valid argument.

Uhhhhh lol. Apex had more entrants for smash than the entire NCR tournament. NCR will probably get around 500 entrants, that's smaller than all of Big E's 2 day tournaments and most other 2 day majors. NCR has never been huge and there is NO REASON for it to be 3 days.

https://twitter.com/kineda/status/325686646815199233
http://www.apex-series.com/registration/viewentrants.php

 

[Busaiku]

Seriously though, what is up with these WC events being 3 days?
Neither SoCal Regionals or this got/will get as many people as most EC tournaments, but those are mostly 2 days.

Heck, SoCal Regionals also did Tekken on Friday.
Were people complaining then?

 

[Lost Fragment]

Uhhhhh lol. Apex had more entrants for smash than the entire NCR tournament. NCR will probably get around 500 entrants, that's smaller than all of Big E's 2 day tournaments and most other 2 day majors. NCR has never been huge and there is NO REASON for it to be 3 days.

https://twitter.com/kineda/status/325686646815199233
http://www.apex-series.com/registration/viewentrants.php

Kineda runs NCR? Isn't he also in charge of SRK redesigns and such?

Suddenly, it all makes sense.

 

[Passive Assassin]

I think chris ceg is running the event.

 

[enzo_gt]

RayRay is such a good commentator, my god.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

RayRay is such a good commentator, my god.

Hell no

 

[Rice-Eater]

I did a quick headcount, I may have missed something here and there. But anyways here are the NCR numbers from Challonge.

SF4 208
Marvel 160
SFxT 80
MK9 19
Smash 68
TTT2 22
P4A 31
DOA5 24
KOFXIII 44

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

What's wrong with 3 day events? As someone watching from home I love it.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Wow smash pools are like real fighting game pools.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

.

 

[Busaiku]

It looks like Apologyman quit anime games.

 

[call_kotaku]

What's wrong with 3 day events? As someone watching from home I love it.

Most people have to go to work on Fridays, and can't take an extra day off to travel and play in a tournament on a weekday.

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Do you have a job?

Part time and I go to school.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

.

Oooh too late

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Hey can someone please post the NCR schedule

 

[Passive Assassin]

What were the numbers for winter brawl?

 

[enzo_gt]

3 day event sucks for most people who have stuff to do on weekdays like school/work. I just don't understand why it's worth it to complain about a game's finals being shown on Saturday when other games are being fucked over more by having their pools during the daytime on Friday and still also having their finals on Saturday, ESPECIALLY when the community has decided not to support the game at the particular tournament in the first place and other games that have more entrants are thus getting preferential (read: later) stream time in the weekend schedule. It's finding shit to complain about after and unrelated to the reason why you decided not to support the event in the first place (2/3).

Run-on sentence but you guys get the idea.

 

[Dahbomb]

3 day event sucks for most people who have stuff to do on weekdays like school/work. I just don't understand why it's worth it to complain about a game's finals being shown on Saturday when other games are being fucked over more by having their pools during the daytime on Friday and still also having their finals on Saturday, ESPECIALLY when the community has decided not to support the game at the particular tournament in the first place and other games that have more entrants are thus getting preferential (read: later) stream time in the weekend schedule. It's finding shit to complain about after and unrelated to the reason why you decided not to support the event in the first place (2/3).

Run-on sentence but you guys get the idea.

Complaining about complainers.

 

[Stabby McSter]

HonzoGonzo's predictions (first is Winner and second is Losers):

1: FChamp and Hypnawtic
2: Honzo Gonzo >>>>> Xian (although Honzo says that Xian takes Marvel seriously and likes the game a lot... wants to make it his main)
3: Knives and CJshowstopper
4: KaneBlueRiver and KillerKai
5: Apologyman (HonzoGonzo's favorite to defeat Chris Genius) and Y2Jay
6: Ranmasama and Falcomist >>> Floe
7: Taekua and Helix
8: Justin and GCYoshi
9: PRRog and Spiral
10: X Ray and Noel Brown
11: Neo and toss up
12: SexyBeast and Infrit (toss up HiIamNasty)
13: Orion and DrewGrimey
14: Kbeast and FlashMetroid/Rzrbrn
15: Wentinel and Ricky Ortiz
16: ChrisG (heavy favorite to win) and Quasidomo

sounds pretty safe.

NCR staged confirmed

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

It looks like Apologyman quit anime games.

He plays Marvel though

 

[Kadey]

Shouldn't Chris G already be on his way there?

 

[DryEyeRelief]

3 day event sucks for most people who have stuff to do on weekdays like school/work. I just don't understand why it's worth it to complain about a game's finals being shown on Saturday when other games are being fucked over more by having their pools during the daytime on Friday and still also having their finals on Saturday, ESPECIALLY when the community has decided not to support the game at the particular tournament in the first place and other games that have more entrants are thus getting preferential (read: later) stream time in the weekend schedule. It's finding shit to complain about after and unrelated to the reason why you decided not to support the event in the first place (2/3).

Run-on sentence but you guys get the idea.

Marvel people dont like 2 out of 3 in pools. They also don't like PS3. Separate complaints brought on the same event (FR), and that didn't make either of them less valid.

And it being at night doesn't help anyone not local to norcal.

 

[QisTopTier]

It looks like Apologyman quit anime games.

No good ones out right now in the states

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Hey can someone please post the NCR schedule

Anybody anybody?