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[Infinite]

"Pay $40 to play video games you could play at home" is a hard sell.

I pay $40 for MTG tournaments regularly, but they've got 10K payouts spread among the top 64.

Oh I know that's an actual con lol

 

[alstein]

I agree with most of this, but two bars for 5% damage?

This is off of blockstun and you'd get a knockdown (I'd adjust the knockdowns so the Alpha Counterer wouldn't get a huge advantage off a knockdown). Certain setups would beat ACs (thought they are risky) , as would throws.

A2 alpha counters were too good, A3 ones were too poor (though much of that was the fact that you shortened your bar when you AC'ed in A3)

I just hope they build it from the ground up with online in mind, I don't care if they add a three frames buffer for normal attacks long as the net code work.

The increased RAM of next-gen consoles and 64-bit architecture would make a GGPO setup much more doable, provided you didn't go crazy on the graphical upgrades.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

"Women are picking this game up and beating men"

Back of the box quoute right there

 

[alstein]

Eh, Idk. I always have something negative to say but I'm kinda tired of just whining at this point. I'm just going to push the scene in a competitive direction and do the best I can with what I got.

You can't make people play a game super-serious if they just aren't that into it. For most folks,there comes a point where the effort to improve at a game outweighs the frustration of improving. Good game design puts that point as far away as possible.

 

[call_kotaku]

I think they'll probably overflavor the game and it will suffer due to this. Kinda like what they did with the Alphas. They'll do exactly what you say they shouldn't, though I expect focus will be removed.


I would probably go SF4+ more blockstun+ ultras+ EXs+ more target combos+ fewer 1f links+ alpha counters + Mike Z approved control scheme - focus - delayed wakeup.

Alpha Counters that require 1 bar for zero damage or 2 bars for 5% damage+no kill would be sufficient to solve vortex problems, especially if you made getting hit right after wakeup give increased meter gain.

I don't think the next SF game should have alpha counters or parries. I feel like the design statement for a street fighter game should be "to achieve the maximum amount of depth with the fewest number of mechanics". Something as brutal and direct as SF2 wouldn't fly nowadays, but any fighting game meaning to appeal to new players shouldn't have mechanics that feel like footnotes of exceptions in a law textbook.

Wakeup options are probably necessary, but things like alpha counters or parries should be character-specific at the most. I don't necessarily think they're bad mechanics or make for bad games, but if a SF game can do without them then all the better.

 

[kirblar]

The SF team may do some stupid things, but they're not stupid enough to include Parries as a system mechanic.

 

[Infinite]

Well parries aren't an inherently bad or stupid mechanic if that's what you meant.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Well parries aren't an inherently bad or stupid mechanic if that's what you meant.

They just happen to end up in bad SF games is all

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well parries aren't an inherently bad or stupid mechanic if that's what you meant.

I think it is in 3rd Strike, poor Remy.

 

[twozerotwo]

Whoo.

Smash's over. Time to hop on stream.

 

[kirblar]

Well parries aren't an inherently bad or stupid mechanic if that's what you meant.

As a core system mechanic, I do think they're unhealthy. (And I don't believe this is a controversial opinion.) If implemented in a Big Band/Gouken - style part of an individual characters playstyle, they're not problematic.

 

[Nyoro SF]

I think it is in 3rd Strike, poor Remy.

Remy isn't blown up that much by parries it's more he gets blown up because he deals shit damage

EDIT: Also the cycle continues, can't go around ~100 pages in a FGW thread without coming back to 3S and parries lol. What a hot topic. I hope parries are in the next Street Fighter game just to see the raw rage, especially from players that never understood parrying to begin with. Like that one guy that said that parries are risk-free, great comedy.

 

[Infinite]

It's all about how parries are implemented and how the characters themselves are designed around them imo. I mean look at games that came after 3rd strike

 

[call_kotaku]

they should remove holding back to block and make you parry in order to block

 

[Smooth Operator]

I love the just defend mechanic in Garou tho', i'd love to see something like that in SF5.

 

[Sayad]

"If you liked this game(BBCP) you'll definitely like Persona, definitely, man"
-Spooky

 

[Anne]

You can't make people play a game super-serious if they just aren't that into it. For most folks,there comes a point where the effort to improve at a game outweighs the frustration of improving. Good game design puts that point as far away as possible.

This has like nothing to do with anything. I'm not trying to force anybody to play anything in any way lol. As far as competitive gaming goes, I'd just rather do my best to make the competition and competitors stand out, and try to improve the competitions and resources we have for them.

Edit: And I'm down for fun and the community being into anime and what not, it just sucks to see the take away from this community was more fans, less competition. I get why (it's not entirely untrue in some cases) but it's just a big sigh sometimes.

 

[sixteen-bit]

2X Strawberry Shortcake alts

 

[call_kotaku]

This has like nothing to do with anything. I'm not trying to force anybody to play anything in any way lol. As far as competitive gaming goes, I'd just rather do my best to make the competition and competitors stand out, and try to improve the competitions and resources we have for them.

Edit: And I'm down for fun and the community being into anime and what not, it just sucks to see the take away from this community was more fans, less competition. I get why (it's not entirely untrue in some cases) but it's just a big sigh sometimes.

If you wanted to play a competitive airdasher, you'd play Marvel

Spoiler

Kappa

 

[Professor Beef]

Vega drives me nuts as Blanka.

Get the life lead, and run away. That's how both characters have to play the matchup.

 

[galvatron]

"Women are picking this game up and beating men"

Back of the box quoute right there

HAHAHA...my dude!
I remember playing that interview with Sanford for some friends that don't even play Marvel and we were cracking up.

"This game is ass because people like you are good at it"

 

[enzo_gt]

I think the issue is Mike Z has a different definition of "bad" to what really matters.

USF4 is so "bad", we had an amazing EVO played with near 2k people and... any actual problems? I can't remember any.

Even if it does have some issues, it is still an amazing fighting game to actually play. Skullgirls might not have these technical issues which is a good thing. But if his approach results in something that is dead boring to play? In my eyes he is the one who has a lot more to learn.

I agree with this wholly, TBH. When he speaks on other games: "Now I'm not sure exactly how they did it" xx "They probably have very talented people working there" xx "WTF THIS IS SO FUCKING BAD HOW DOES IT HAPPEN?"

It's very telling how much you miss the bigger picture when minutia is enough for you to disparage consumers that may be supporting a product for reasons other than a bug/glitch/exploit. And I find it hard to crucify devs for missing something, regardless of what QA method they use. And in the broader discussion of design, I think a game can be flawed mechanically but still be a great game, have overall great design, and give people a good reason to continue supporting a franchise. I kind of feel bad going in on dude, since he is very passionate and probably means well, but it seems like he lacks tact and has always rubbed me the wrong way since using what other games do "wrong" and what SG does "right" as a platform for pushing the game.

 

[kirblar]

Update on that Con in DC - the SF tournament advertising a 2K payout got 6 players and they cut the advertised prize pool on them. http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dsuy2/video_game_con_in_dc_is_a_graveyard_come_out_and/

 

[QisTopTier]

"If you liked this game(BBCP) you'll definitely like Persona, definitely, man"
-Spooky

LOL I hate Persona Arena

Spoiler

like legit hate not hyperbole

To me UNIEL is what P4A wanted to be but pulled it off a lot better. Though it does have it's own share of issues it's a way better designed game imo.

This has like nothing to do with anything. I'm not trying to force anybody to play anything in any way lol. As far as competitive gaming goes, I'd just rather do my best to make the competition and competitors stand out, and try to improve the competitions and resources we have for them.

Edit: And I'm down for fun and the community being into anime and what not, it just sucks to see the take away from this community was more fans, less competition. I get why (it's not entirely untrue in some cases) but it's just a big sigh sometimes.

I think they go hand and hand together, goofing around is fine for daily streams and stuff. But when a tournament is happening even if it's weekly they should try and wise up a bit about how they present themselves at times. Lot's of people are tuning in for the first time and if that's what they see and hear half the time they wont even bother to pay attention to the game. Basically feeding into stereotypes and stigmas that are typically viewed negatively and you lose new interest and potential new people into the community who are turned off by the highlighted actions of a few.

 

[El Sloth]

I agree with this wholly, TBH. When he speaks on other games: "Now I'm not sure exactly how they did it" xx "They probably have very talented people working there" xx "WTF THIS IS SO FUCKING BAD HOW DOES IT HAPPEN?"

It's very telling how much you miss the bigger picture when minutia is enough for you to disparage consumers that may be supporting a product for reasons other than a bug/glitch/exploit. And I find it hard to crucify devs for missing something, regardless of what QA method they use. And in the broader discussion of design, I think a game can be flawed mechanically but still be a great game, have overall great design, and give people a good reason to continue supporting a franchise. I kind of feel bad going in on dude, since he is very passionate and probably means well, but it seems like he lacks tact and has always rubbed me the wrong way since using what other games do "wrong" and what SG does "right" as a platform for pushing the game.

Mike Z obviously killed your dog.

 

[enzo_gt]

I think Persona is the only non-Xrd anime game I'd consider picking up in the future.

Mike Z obviously killed your dog.

Only telling it how it is, brah.

 

[Karsticles]

I love the just defend mechanic in Garou tho', i'd love to see something like that in SF5.

How does it work?

 

[Mr. X]

There's a lot of misinformation about 3s parry system in here. Would anyone be interested and read what I type about it and correct some misconceptions?

Other than call kotaku.

 

[darkblade77]

Mike Z obviously killed your dog.

Worse, he went in on a Capcom game. fall back nerd


It's not news that Mike Z doesn't filter or compromise his views on fighting game design or programming when he talks to anyone. If you talk to him and/or call him out on things he said, he'll seriously consider them. And he is harsher on Skullgirls than he will ever be on any Capcom game, even when he toots his horn on it.

When nobody can go in on what he said for the details of the interview and instead want to talk about things like his 'tone' or 'his approach to bugs may be cool but I dont like the game he made', that's telling enough. The fact is, this is the kind of criticism Capcom doesn't get enough of.

 

[Professor Beef]

How does it work?

It's activated by blocking just before the attack hits. It's parrying, but back instead of forward, so there's little risk. You also gain a tiny bit of life back.

There's a lot of misinformation about 3s parry system in here. Would anyone be interested and read what I type about it and correct some misconceptions?

If we're being honest, I won't read it because I don't care for 3rd Strike.

 

[Mr. X]

How does it work?

It's intsa block from asw games pretty much. Block within a specific window, gain meter and frame advantage. K-groove in CvS2 has it.

 

[Karsticles]

It's activated by blocking just before the attack hits. It's parrying, but back instead of forward, so there's little risk. You also gain a tiny bit of life back.


If we're being honest, I won't read it because I don't care for 3rd Strike.

It's intsa block from asw games pretty much. Block within a specific window, gain meter and frame advantage. K-groove in CvS2 has it.

Great idea, imo. Add a little more skill to blocking, but new players can still participate.

Worse, he went in on a Capcom game. fall back nerd


It's not news that Mike Z doesn't filter or compromise his views on fighting game design or programming when he talks to anyone. If you talk to him and/or call him out on things he said, he'll seriously consider them. And he is harsher on Skullgirls than he will ever be on any Capcom game, even when he toots his horn on it.

When nobody can go in on what he said for the details of the interview and instead want to talk about things like his 'tone' or 'his approach to bugs may be cool but I dont like the game he made', that's telling enough. The fact is, this is the kind of criticism Capcom doesn't get enough of.

This.

Get the life lead, and run away. That's how both characters have to play the matchup.

Zzz zzz.

 

[Professor Beef]

Zzz zzz.

Well if you just wanna go in and push buttons, you could always play Yun.

 

[Silky]

oh boy guest characters hhahahahahaahahahaahahhaaaaa http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=876824

 

[El Sloth]

I think Persona is the only non-Xrd anime game I'd consider picking up in the future.


Only telling it how it is, brah.

Dawg, you are way too angry at a dude you have never met. I'm whatever about the guy, my only opinion about him is that his humor is too awkward and that he probably shouldn't be commentating fighting game matches.

You need to take a step back and wonder what exactly are you getting so angry about and is it worth the blood pressure.

 

[Infinite]

oh boy guest characters hhahahahahaahahahaahahhaaaaa http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=876824

Money hats confirmed

 

[QisTopTier]

Maybe Enzo is letting his inner fanboy leak out

Great idea, imo. Add a little more skill to blocking, but new players can still participate.

Yup! And to top it off GG and BB both have characters that can parry still Though it's a tougher back to forward motion.

 

[El Sloth]

Hey, Q, I've been meaning to ask you to play UNIEL again (although our connection wasn't too hot the first time). Your pressure has still been the scariest I've played, so I figure bashing myself against the bloody Carmine mountain is the best way to improve my defense! What days are you usually on?

 

[QisTopTier]

Hey, Q, I've been meaning to ask you to play UNIEL again (although our connection wasn't too hot the first time). Your pressure has still been the scariest I've played, so I figure bashing myself against the bloody Carmine mountain is the best way to improve my defense! What days are you usually on?

I don't have a life, so even if I'm not on ps3 I'm on my pc. If you ever want to play just hit me up and I'll jump on.

 

[El Sloth]

I don't have a life, so even if I'm not on ps3 I'm on my pc. If you ever want to play just hit me up and I'll jump on.

Alright, I won't be on tonight, but lets play some tomorrow then. Will make sure to have some tequilla on deck to dull the pain of the beatings.

 

[jbug617]

The tournament is ahead of schedule so Marvel is on right now.

http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky

 

[Karsticles]

Well if you just wanna go in and push buttons, you could always play Yun.

Aesthetics!

Really, I am focusing on all the new fighting games coming out in the next several months. I doubt I will touch SF again once I have P4AU, GGXrd and Smash unless someone asks.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

oh boy guest characters hhahahahahaahahahaahahhaaaaa http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=876824

Marcus Fenix would fit into this then.

 

[Sayad]

Worse, he went in on a Capcom game. fall back nerd


It's not news that Mike Z doesn't filter or compromise his views on fighting game design or programming when he talks to anyone. If you talk to him and/or call him out on things he said, he'll seriously consider them. And he is harsher on Skullgirls than he will ever be on any Capcom game, even when he toots his horn on it.

When nobody can go in on what he said for the details of the interview and instead want to talk about things like his 'tone' or 'his approach to bugs may be cool but I dont like the game he made', that's telling enough. The fact is, this is the kind of criticism Capcom doesn't get enough of.

That's just the way he is I guess(watch him talk about BB, lol), it's a shitty way to act when you're in his position, but yea, it's the criticism that matter. I agree with his USF4 criticism, but for him to say people shouldn't buy the game seems really bitter.

 

[Silky]

So FGW: Fall Back u Nerd is tomorrow's title right

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Chris vs Justin in marvel now. Justin's going with point Storm again.

 

[Karsticles]

Chris vs Justin in marvel now. Justin's going with point Storm again.

JWong 3-1 over ChrisG.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

A KI character could make sense for the X1 version. PS4 though? Hmm. Kratos is who I would pick but they apparently have already said its not him.

 

[Dahbomb]

JWong 3-1 over ChrisG.

Dat EVO repeat.

Justin "Marvelous" Wong.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Chris vs Justin in marvel now. Justin's going with point Storm again.

But Pokemon and VGBootcamp are on! >: (