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Fighting Games Weekly | Aug 18-24 | Fall back, u nerd
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Riposte
Member
That sentence doesn't even mean anything, so you are not right or wrong.
In any case, it's one of the best top-down action game series ever with some nice music. I can't recommend Oath and Origins enough.
SousedLouse
Member
Yep, 720p is nice - I hope more arcades change up their setups down the line, at least for the newer games.
The large amount of HP on bosses in Felghana during Nightmare mode is irritating.
I don't have anything to add beyond that, I just dislike the high health a lot.
The large amount of HP on bosses in Felghana during Nightmare mode is irritating.
I don't have anything to add beyond that, I just dislike the high health a lot.
thanks
Professor Beef
Banned
CountBlack
Member
man they gotta make a PS4 version and just go all out on it. Make that shit amazing and tournament worthy. idgaf it would be anime, i'd drop street fighter immediately
put deejay in dissidia
That Dude John
Member
I'd argue they are similar only in they way they require you to mind spacing in a completely 3D sense. Outside of that the movement is different, the way to deal damage is completely different(dissidia's bravery system vs. EXVS's standard health and cost over system), etc.
Sephiroth's sword hitboxes will be glorious.
Professor Beef
Banned
I've never played Gundam, so I dunno
DeeJay wouldn't be any worse than Laguna lol
It's already tournament-worthy obviously lol. The only thing I'd change would be assist meter building on whiff (remove it).
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It's not that bad, prevents you from brute forcing them too much and having to do the fights. Honestly if your gear is up to par and your level is even to theirs or a few higher you can still kill bosses fairly quick. Most of my boss kills are between 2 minutes and 5 minutes if the boss has a lot of avoidance based stuff.
I don't think a 5 minute boss fight is really too long, it can just feel that way with how much shit is happening nonstop at a fast pace
So, do you guys think the problems(netcode and bugs, this isn't about fighting games design) Capcom is having with their fighting games is because they don't keep an in house fighting games studio? ASW never stopped working on fighting games through this whole gen... Actually make that since the 90s. Skull Girls have the same three or so people working on it for the past five years, they know their game inside out. While Namco's approach is a little different, they treat their (main)fighting games much better than Capcom does, with big in house development while sharing a lot of resources.
The fruit of this effort is very obvious, Namco and ASW games netcodes have been progressively getting better(for the most part), same for training mode features, online modes, tutorials, options, etc...
Where as in Capcom land every game seem to be a whole new project from the ground up by a new team, the net code alone show how much of a problem this have been:
SF4(bad) > SSF4(got better) > MVC3(got worse) > UMVC3(got better) > SFxT(got worse)
Their net code only got better in iterations worked on by the same team(SF4 to SSF4/MVC3 to UMVC) and a lot of USF4's problems seem to come from developers working on someone else's code. For comparison, you have Mike Z fixing SG's bugs live on streams as they occur while Capcom is starting a beta for their 6 years old game to figure out its netcode problems.
The fruit of this effort is very obvious, Namco and ASW games netcodes have been progressively getting better(for the most part), same for training mode features, online modes, tutorials, options, etc...
Where as in Capcom land every game seem to be a whole new project from the ground up by a new team, the net code alone show how much of a problem this have been:
SF4(bad) > SSF4(got better) > MVC3(got worse) > UMVC3(got better) > SFxT(got worse)
Their net code only got better in iterations worked on by the same team(SF4 to SSF4/MVC3 to UMVC) and a lot of USF4's problems seem to come from developers working on someone else's code. For comparison, you have Mike Z fixing SG's bugs live on streams as they occur while Capcom is starting a beta for their 6 years old game to figure out its netcode problems.
Does anyone here play Project M? I've been playing that and dropped Marvel. So much fun but I wanna learn more nuances for melee. I've been having trouble lag cancelling and getting my short hops down after it, any advice on it? I know you play melee smeddy, shed the light on me!
Count, pls change that avatar... I see too much swollen lip each time i see your name...
Count, pls change that avatar... I see too much swollen lip each time i see your name...
This would likely have a lot to do with it.
That's one of the things Mike Z and omni mentioned. Ultra wasn't made by dimps, and a lot of the properties of moves have been manually tinkered with over different versions rather than automating how its setup, so they aren't able to change the properties of some groups of moves all at once, e.g. Yun's close LP, chained cl.LP, genei-jin cl.LP etc all being separate moves rather than always being the same. So with a new developer taking over they have a lot more random variables to find and fix.
I've never thought about it this way, but yeah co-production seems to be something that's hurting Capcom nowadays in more than just fighting games. Not that I'd necessarily know if they'd do better if they kept everything in-house; Capcom has a shitload of problems that go way further up than just the development end of things.
We can certainly see it with USFIV and with the UMvC3 team dissolving.
It just takes practice, I personally just lightly tap X for short jump, and then do aerials with C-Stick. Project M has a visual indicator of when you properly L-Cancel too.
Deckard Cain
Banned
There is really no denying Capcom is a mess of a company. I don't know if their was a management change at the top but it's probably been the sharpest decline I've seen from a company ever. At the start of the PS3 end of the PS2 era Chapcom was unstoppable, they did what they did & did it well.
We all know the story, Capcom let all of it's great creators & designers go, thinking they didn't need them, that the brand & the names was enough to sell & they were half right. Except for some reason they stopped making brand name games.
If you think about it, the reason SF4 probably got the green light was because fighting games were one of the few genres they still had development staff for. Even then though most of the work was out sourced to DIMPS.
At the end of the day Capcoms poor management is to blame for pretty much all of their troubles. But wait daaaaarsss more!
Street Fighter 5 is coming but you need to also realize that Capcom is in a far worse state than when they released the original SF4. To them all the SF community is, is easy money & it will continue to show in SF5. Expect the bar minimum with yearly updates of $15 after the original with 16 characters is released. It's going to be a bad situation.
Also please, some people were saying DIMPS wasn't involved cause they might be working on something else? The only reason DIMPS wasn't involved is because Capcom wanted to make the Ultra update for as cheap as possible. I bet they had MAYBE 20 people involved in the games development tops. It would explain why it took a year & a half to release this shotty update. I guarantee most of that time too was taken up by ONE animator doing all the new animations. Because again lets keep it real, people with the PC version were moding the system mechanics & character changes in a matter of DAYS. Yet it took Capcom a year & half? Clearly the team was super understaffed to make the project as cheap as possible.
At the end of the day Im really worried for the future of Street Fighter. I really love SF but something deep in my gut scares me. I just see a pattern of problems & a company that is not making good decisions. I can't help but fear the future.
We all know the story, Capcom let all of it's great creators & designers go, thinking they didn't need them, that the brand & the names was enough to sell & they were half right. Except for some reason they stopped making brand name games.
If you think about it, the reason SF4 probably got the green light was because fighting games were one of the few genres they still had development staff for. Even then though most of the work was out sourced to DIMPS.
At the end of the day Capcoms poor management is to blame for pretty much all of their troubles. But wait daaaaarsss more!
Street Fighter 5 is coming but you need to also realize that Capcom is in a far worse state than when they released the original SF4. To them all the SF community is, is easy money & it will continue to show in SF5. Expect the bar minimum with yearly updates of $15 after the original with 16 characters is released. It's going to be a bad situation.
Also please, some people were saying DIMPS wasn't involved cause they might be working on something else? The only reason DIMPS wasn't involved is because Capcom wanted to make the Ultra update for as cheap as possible. I bet they had MAYBE 20 people involved in the games development tops. It would explain why it took a year & a half to release this shotty update. I guarantee most of that time too was taken up by ONE animator doing all the new animations. Because again lets keep it real, people with the PC version were moding the system mechanics & character changes in a matter of DAYS. Yet it took Capcom a year & half? Clearly the team was super understaffed to make the project as cheap as possible.
At the end of the day Im really worried for the future of Street Fighter. I really love SF but something deep in my gut scares me. I just see a pattern of problems & a company that is not making good decisions. I can't help but fear the future.
call_kotaku
Member
Don't worry, once Capcom gets bought nobody will have to worry about the quality of its fighting games
Because Capcom will make nothing but mobile games
That wouldn't help- just make you more consistent on things as harder more is just more HP.
Falcom is pretty awesome though.
SolarPowered
Member
If SFV has the $15 yearly update format I'd consider it a win. At the beginning of the last generation I was a big ASW fan who got both console versions of the games at launch (and an LE for whatever main console I had), but this time I ended up not even touching Chronophantasma until it hit $20 on PSN.
Capcom did it right with SFIV. Too bad MvC3 never got that chance and too bad few if any fighting games followed their example.
There is still only so much you can do with non GGPO netcode tho.
Capcom did it right with SFIV. Too bad MvC3 never got that chance and too bad few if any fighting games followed their example.
This is definitely a big part of it.
There is still only so much you can do with non GGPO netcode tho.
I want to be clear about my original statement, the "sensationalism for attention" statement was about the reporting, not about Ono.
Was this captured streaming over Edge on a cellphone underwater?
OMG.
Deckard Cain
Banned
I don't want yearly updates to old games I want new games. For god sakes do you know how many new fighting games have been released since SF4? I don't want to play SF5 for 8 years like we have had to for SF4, esprcially if we are given lack luster content in a $60 release & the need to wait years & pay $15 for shit that should have been in the game already.
By the way its fucking 2014 bro. GGPO? Seriously? First of all GGPO isn't even that good, second good fuckin luck on a this gen of consoles putting aside enough ram to run GGPO effectively. There is a reason no game but ports of 90s fighting games us GGPO, it's cause it's a huge resource hog.
256 and 512MB of RAM gives problems to more than just trying to use GGPO. With the new console gen, should be easy to implement GGPO with regards to resources.
GGPO is that good. Why not let an individual choose if they want to play in input delay or rollback if the connection gets a little wacky? It's great that the dude I'm playing wants input delay and I'd rather rollback, instead of forced heavy input delay for everyone that gets compensated for by big input buffers.
And because you need save states, anyone using GGPO gets the ability of replays in their game.
Yearly updates are the way to go, people really expect two sequels of SF in the same generation? They didn't even do it during the 16bit generation.
Any competitive game in existance follow the update route because it makes totally sense. It's not that developers are lazy, but making a new fighting game takes a lot of time and resources, if they release a SFVI in the same generation of SFV they will reuse the same assets, there wouldn't be much of a difference with a yearly update.
What Capcom needs to do is to create other fighting games that can follow a sustainable model as SF. SFxT didn't work for many reasons, Marvel doesn't belong to them, Darkstalkers is too niche. A Capcom All Stars can do the work.
My dream would be another Capcom vs SNK with yearly updates.
Any competitive game in existance follow the update route because it makes totally sense. It's not that developers are lazy, but making a new fighting game takes a lot of time and resources, if they release a SFVI in the same generation of SFV they will reuse the same assets, there wouldn't be much of a difference with a yearly update.
What Capcom needs to do is to create other fighting games that can follow a sustainable model as SF. SFxT didn't work for many reasons, Marvel doesn't belong to them, Darkstalkers is too niche. A Capcom All Stars can do the work.
My dream would be another Capcom vs SNK with yearly updates.
SolarPowered
Member
Yo chill
No one said anything about SF being the only series they can make with this model. Why else would I mention MvC3? I think that Capcom would love to have 2 or 3 successful franchises they can update yearly or bi yearly since it'd keep fans happy and investors happy when good numbers come in during those quarters.
Darkstalkers is only niche if they want a big SF or MvC styled release. With the right budget and battle tested studios Darkstalkers could probably be done without breaking the bank and it could be released on all last and current gen consoles/PC. Sadly the list of studios that fit that bill is probably too short to even bother with and the hardcore and mainstream scene would probably reject it.
The $15 model can work for a lot of stuff, though. Games like Skullgirls, Arcana, UNiEL, Yatagarasu and Divekick would work great with $15 expansions that may as well be sequels.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
ArcSys is like the case study for why you shouldn't launch multiple fighting game IP in a single generation
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Nah. They been making bank.
You should be doing that anyway!
Smooth Operator
Member
If you don't like money yeah, but they're making bank right now.
Look at Tekken 4 to 5. DoA 4 to 5. SoulCalibur 4 to 5. All released in the same console generation and not reusing all the same assets and really reworking the game play mechanics. Tekken would've been dead if Namco spent its time trying to balance Tekken 4 instead of making Tekken 5.
sixteen-bit
Member
Why, because they made a couple hundred forum goers mad?
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I meant in the community splitting sense not the fat piles of cash sense
Unless that's not a problem in Japanese arcades
Unless that's not a problem in Japanese arcades
It's not.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
In arcades they each have their own community more or less. Because each game offers something different
Needing to champion ONE TRUE GAME is our (your) problem as consumers, not theirs.
Yeah, pretty much this. Too many of their games had some sort of hang up or issue for sustained support. So many people want an All Stars game. It makes so much sense for them.
irfaanator
Banned
It was from 2006
JeTmAn81
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ys_(series)
Are you an expert systems programmer, or how else do you know intimately exactly what kind of resource usage would be necessary to implement GGPO on modern consoles?
Karsticles
Member
To be fair to Deckard, he is just repeating things Seth Killian has said in the past.
JeTmAn81
Member
This article from 2010 is all I found:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/dec/23/capcom-discusses-ggpo-net-code-technology/
It doesn't seem relevant to the PS4/XB1 with 16x the RAM of previous consoles and who knows how much higher throughput from the RAM, CPU and GPU speeds. I am a programmer, though my expertise is nowhere near this stuff. Still, I think GGPO should be doable for the upcoming generation of AAA fighting games.
SousedLouse
Member
Sega's adding new characters to Blade Arcus:
At this point, It's essentially a crossover between Blade and Hearts.
Also,
At this point, It's essentially a crossover between Blade and Hearts.
Also,
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