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theprodigy · Dec 1, 2014

Diddy Kong, annoying as fuck in Smash starting from 2008

Sayad · Dec 1, 2014

"Are we seeing a download? This could be a download!"
Nope, we're seeing Diddy.

And the other player switch to Diddy too. -__-

K.Sabot · Dec 1, 2014

\o/ 10 more years \o/

theprodigy · Dec 1, 2014

LOLOLOLOLOL the Sanford video

4r5 · Dec 1, 2014

Correction on Guilty Gear's clash mechanic. A clash occurs when the attack-boxes of two moves overlap without touching either player's hurt-boxes. No clash frames or clash-boxes or anything. For Xrd, they changed nothing to how clashes occur. They've only added a random chance for a clash to trigger Danger Time. Inspiration was Samurai Showdown's weapon clashes. I like it.

Prior to Xrd, at low levels a clash would happen by accident, and no one would notice and the match would move on. At high levels, clashes are planned, and the way you take advantage of a clash is to string in your inputs before you even know if you succeeded in your planned clash.

So currently clashes either just happen and something random follows it, or you incorporate all these OS's in to your game plan to take advantage of a potential clash situation. I think he's trying to make clashes a more deliberate thing. Like, "Oh a clash happened, let me think about my next move." Kind of thing. Early location tests retooled clashes to take in to account the two move's attack level, and the loser would get blown back like a Blitz Shield. There was also some sort of clash battle mini-game if you clashed too much. A whole mini-game during your match? Now that would be flow disruption.

I think the current implementation is good. A little on the conservative side. Essentially the system is the same as it's always been. The only difference is that randomly the stakes get really high. Characters that lend themselves well to clashes will still push for clashes and win clashes. (Hello Sol Badguy) Characters that shy away from clashes will still try to avoid them. Danger Time may be random, but clashes are not random. Your participation in a clash is still your own choice, how much you risk in a clash is still up to you. Mortal Counters don't automaticlly hit you, you can still block. The only change is that you sometimes get to think about a clash when a clash happens.

BTW, I wanted to confirm some mechanics. I went through 30+ Xrd matches to try to find an instance of danger time, and no danger time happened in any matches.

As for command throw YRC option selects.
YRC has 6f startup. If you are hit out of YRC startup, you lose the meter.
If you have a hard-read on Sol about to tick throw you, you don't jump, you jab. That's what you do before Xrd, that's what you still do in Xrd. It will beat the command throw, or the YRC.
IF you wanted to jump anyways, and Sol was doing this throw YRC OS.
CommandThrow Startup + YRC Startup + Jump Startup = 4f+6f+3f = 13frames.
13 whole frames before Sol leaves the ground to do this supposed air throw. Most characters would bop him in the head before his feet left the ground.

FYI
Purple RC is 15f startup. That's why you don't see it a lot. 50% meter to probably still get hit.

People just wanna parrot a known guy's reaction; people don't wanna think for themselves?

Anne · Dec 1, 2014

Ye, I knew about the mash vs YRC command grab, hence me hinting, but nobody ever asked orz

Edit: I know pretty much all of this actually lol. A lot of this stuff I don't find super detrimental to the game at this point, some of it just amuses me that it's there. Like I remember when the YRC on hit OSes were discovered and we were worried, but the game kept going and I rarely ever see it. Danger time I still think is dumb but really it rarely ever comes up and it's rarely an issue. Like I said, Mike Z opinions are whack, nice guy and made a neat game, but his opinions are wild. On top of that not a lot of FGW people aren't serious players, and are particularly not well versed in ASW games or many games outside of Capcom (as a whole, more people from more games who know what's up represent). I don't bother putting on my serious undies about something unless it's particularly important, and shooting shit about some funny stuff usually works better here.

I could go more into depth about Xrd and what we know about it, the data has been out there and Shtkn is actually testing stuff in the Xrd demo regarding the different RC cancels, but the people who actually care and want in on that probably already know where to find it.

Anth0ny · Dec 1, 2014

Just pick a top tier

Just pick a fuckin top tier

K.Sabot · Dec 1, 2014

PewpewU streaming is a pleasant surprise, go for the play stay for the actually decent music.

Kadey · Dec 1, 2014

SFV needs to be native 4k 60fps running on UE4.

Grakl · Dec 1, 2014

theprodigy said:
LOLOLOLOLOL the Sanford video

linkz?

theprodigy · Dec 1, 2014

Grakl said:
linkz?

I meant they played it on stream in between matches, after the mass Diddy switching

that was definitely it for game 5

gutabo · Dec 1, 2014

Little mac? Little mac.

EDIT: And Mr. R has to go to work. Welp...

Tizoc · Dec 1, 2014

Uraizen · Dec 1, 2014

4r5 said:
Correction on Guilty Gear's clash mechanic. A clash occurs when the attack-boxes of two moves overlap without touching either player's hurt-boxes. No clash frames or clash-boxes or anything. For Xrd, they changed nothing to how clashes occur. They've only added a random chance for a clash to trigger Danger Time. Inspiration was Samurai Showdown's weapon clashes. I like it.

Prior to Xrd, at low levels a clash would happen by accident, and no one would notice and the match would move on. At high levels, clashes are planned, and the way you take advantage of a clash is to string in your inputs before you even know if you succeeded in your planned clash.

So currently clashes either just happen and something random follows it, or you incorporate all these OS's in to your game plan to take advantage of a potential clash situation. I think he's trying to make clashes a more deliberate thing. Like, "Oh a clash happened, let me think about my next move." Kind of thing. Early location tests retooled clashes to take in to account the two move's attack level, and the loser would get blown back like a Blitz Shield. There was also some sort of clash battle mini-game if you clashed too much. A whole mini-game during your match? Now that would be flow disruption.

I think the current implementation is good. A little on the conservative side. Essentially the system is the same as it's always been. The only difference is that randomly the stakes get really high. Characters that lend themselves well to clashes will still push for clashes and win clashes. (Hello Sol Badguy) Characters that shy away from clashes will still try to avoid them. Danger Time may be random, but clashes are not random. Your participation in a clash is still your own choice, how much you risk in a clash is still up to you. Mortal Counters don't automaticlly hit you, you can still block. The only change is that you sometimes get to think about a clash when a clash happens.

BTW, I wanted to confirm some mechanics. I went through 30+ Xrd matches to try to find an instance of danger time, and no danger time happened in any matches.

As for command throw YRC option selects.
YRC has 6f startup. If you are hit out of YRC startup, you lose the meter.
If you have a hard-read on Sol about to tick throw you, you don't jump, you jab. That's what you do before Xrd, that's what you still do in Xrd. It will beat the command throw, or the YRC.
IF you wanted to jump anyways, and Sol was doing this throw YRC OS.
CommandThrow Startup + YRC Startup + Jump Startup = 4f+6f+9f = 19frames.
19 whole frames before Sol leaves the ground to do this supposed air throw. Most characters would bop him in the head before his feet left the ground.

FYI
Purple RC is 15f startup. That's why you don't see it a lot. 50% meter to probably still get hit.

People just wanna parrot a known guy's reaction; people don't wanna think for themselves?

Holy shit, the amount of knowledge I just had injected into me... please talk more often.

Zissou · Dec 1, 2014

Uraizen said:
Holy shit, the amount of knowledge I just had injected into me... please talk more often.

Seconded!

Anne · Dec 1, 2014

Huh I guess I was wrong.

fader · Dec 1, 2014

AnneIFrank said:
Huh I guess I was wrong.

Xrd is bringing people in.

I'm happy people care about GG's complicated mechanics now.

4r5 said:
.

nice write up btw, kinda knew this stuff and i figured about the Sol OS but glad its here for people to read.

AnneIFrank said:
Ye, I knew about the mash vs YRC command grab, hence me hinting, but nobody ever asked orz

Edit: I know pretty much all of this actually lol. A lot of this stuff I don't find super detrimental to the game at this point, some of it just amuses me that it's there. Like I remember when the YRC on hit OSes were discovered and we were worried, but the game kept going and I rarely ever see it. Danger time I still think is dumb but really it rarely ever comes up and it's rarely an issue. Like I said, Mike Z opinions are whack, nice guy and made a neat game, but his opinions are wild. On top of that not a lot of FGW people aren't serious players, and are particularly not well versed in ASW games or many games outside of Capcom (as a whole, more people from more games who know what's up represent). I don't bother putting on my serious undies about something unless it's particularly important, and shooting shit about some funny stuff usually works better here.

I could go more into depth about Xrd and what we know about it, the data has been out there and Shtkn is actually testing stuff in the Xrd demo regarding the different RC cancels, but the people who actually care and want in on that probably already know where to find it.

MikeZ is a nice guy but he is kinda dense in some areas. I feel his criticism from calling Xrd transition MVC3 is a bit of an over-exaggeration.

Sayad · Dec 1, 2014

4r5 said:
CommandThrow Startup + YRC Startup + Jump Startup = 4f+6f+9f = 19frames.

Jump start-up in GG is 9 frames? That's worse than SF4's Hugo jump start-up!!
Is it like that for all characters?

4r5 · Dec 1, 2014

Sayad said:
Jump start-up in GG is 9 frames? That's worse than SF4's Hugo jump start-up!!
Is it like that for all characters?

whoops, that should be a 3
i'll edit my post

most characters would still hit him before Sol leaves the ground

Anne · Dec 1, 2014

fader said:
Xrd is bringing people in.

I'm happy people care about GG's complicated mechanics now.

nice write up btw, kinda knew this stuff and i figured about the Sol OS but glad its here for people to read.

MikeZ is a nice guy but he is kinda dense in some areas. I feel his criticism from calling Xrd transition MVC3 is a bit of an over-exaggeration.

From past experience with GAF the "oooohhh ahhhh" tends to go over a lot better than "this is how the frames work." I can be wrong though. 4r5's write up is p good though.

Shameless plug but all of this and more over on Dustloop. Seriously if you're interested in Xrd hit us up, all this is on there somewhere. (4r5 is one of our mods)

Edit: The thing about the YRC command grab is that it's silly he can YRC the active frames, then if they jumped/avoided he gets the YRC slowdown and pops you. You need to be mashing out of the situation regardless, that is the correct answer.

alstein · Dec 1, 2014

Sayad said:
Making chained/canceled into moves RRC/PRC only will stop the burst bait OS, I'd be fine with it only working for combos with links.

That's a very SF4-ish idea and it will get criticized as "Artifical execution barrier"

I do find it interesting Mike Z criticizes Xrd heavily while Sirlin praises it- with both of them being oldschool GG players.

4r5 · Dec 1, 2014

Guilty Gear is many things to many different people. Every person can probably found a character they would like to play, ignoring aesthetics.

Mike Z often says he draws inspiration for SkullGirls from MvC2 and GG. But when I play SkullGirls, all I see is MvC2.

But when I play ST, I see a lot of what I love about GG also in ST.

Coffeeling · Dec 1, 2014

fader said:
I definitely see them tweaking YRC so that's kinda why I'm not as up arms about it, I really trust their balancing crew. and I don't think any fighting game can match the transition from melee to brawl.

So tempted to say 3S to SF4.

AnneIFrank said:
From past experience with GAF the "oooohhh ahhhh" tends to go over a lot better than "this is how the frames work." I can be wrong though. 4r5's write up is p good though.

Shameless plug but all of this and more over on Dustloop. Seriously if you're interested in Xrd hit us up, all this is on there somewhere. (4r5 is one of our mods)

Edit: The thing about the YRC command grab is that it's silly he can YRC the active frames, then if they jumped/avoided he gets the YRC slowdown and pops you. You need to be mashing out of the situation regardless, that is the correct answer.

But you don't even let us talk about stuff in there. Take that stuff to Zepp all day ;_;

DiscoShark · Dec 1, 2014

MikeZ keeps coming into this conversation and characterized as that currazy cat but it's not like he's said anything controversial with respect to Xrd, the things hes pointing out are things everyone else has been pointing out about what's dumb about the game since we first started breaking down its mechanics. A game can simultaneously be jank and fun to play too.

4r5 said:
Mike Z often says he draws inspiration for SkullGirls from MvC2 and GG. But when I play SkullGirls, all I see is MvC2..

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but the GG influences in Skullgirls shine through the actual characters more so than the overarching mechanics. Cerebella is channeling Potemkin pretty hard in the choices for some of her normals and special moves while the specific way in which Squigly's stances work are pulling from Johnny. Just a couple examples off the top of my head.

AnneIFrank said:
Edit: The thing about the YRC command grab is that it's silly he can YRC the active frames, then if they jumped/avoided he gets the YRC slowdown and pops you. You need to be mashing out of the situation regardless, that is the correct answer.

Then the mixup becomes whether he'll go for the air grab or whether he'll go for some sort of Antiair no? In a situation where I don't have a hard read on the guy (which isn't too out of the question given how amazing Sol's frame traps are) and have avoided the command grab by jumping instead of mashing then it doesn't seem like I can really translate that into an advantageous position so long as Sol has the option to YRC.

4r5 said:
IF you wanted to jump anyways, and Sol was doing this throw YRC OS.
CommandThrow Startup + YRC Startup + Jump Startup = 4f+6f+3f = 13frames.
13 whole frames before Sol leaves the ground to do this supposed air throw. Most characters would bop him in the head before his feet left the ground.

"Most characters would bop him in the head before his feet left the ground" feels like an exaggeration especially since a calculation like that would need to account for the amount of time taken to reach the apex of your jump and fall down to a level where he's vulnerable on the ground. I'd like to know the duration of a normal jump within the game and the amount of time it would take for me to reach the optimal level to hit him in the head. It's moot for characters that can gatling their air normals into themselves on whiff but if I'm someone like pot then immediately mashing jLP to beat the option select is going to leave me with 6f of recovery in which I can totally be airthrown and to make matters worse, according to dustloop Pot's jump startup is 5 frames. Lol.

Potemkin Jump
Jump Startup + jLP Startup
5F + 8F = ... hey look, 13f! So if Sol literally hesitates for a fraction of a second against a Pot he's caught jumping to do the OS against then it's a free air throw at best and potentially a combo if he goes into an AA instead.

I know you said "most" but I think we're downplaying the potential effectiveness of the OS

And, for the sake of argument, let's say it's not a raw command throw and instead a special cancelled normal into a command throw so some of the command throw startup is mitigated by the fact that you're not able to jump on frame 1 of the called out throw. I'll say 1 frame of jumpable startup, 6f yrc, 3 f jump so 10 frames of vulnerability on Sol's side before he can attempt to air throw you. Given the jump startup time + the time it takes for a normal to come out you're cutting it pretty close at that point.

4r5 said:
People just wanna parrot a known guy's reaction; people don't wanna think for themselves?

This is unnecessary.

I brought up his thoughts on Xrd because someone else mentioned that he hated the game simply because it wasn't Accent Core which definitely isn't the case. A lot of you guys have spent time trying to discredit Mike as an old crotchety fellow stuck in the past and not a lot of time going out of your way to address the specific criticisms he's bringing up. They're valid. This was a fun exercise though, gonna be great to settle some of these things with a real training mode and a replay function.

Hot Coldman · Dec 1, 2014

When was the last good guest character anyway

DiscoShark · Dec 1, 2014

Hot Coldman said:
When was the last good guest character anyway

Blitzkampf bro in UNiEL or the Assassins Creed dude in Soul Calibur come to mind.

Coffeeling · Dec 1, 2014

4r5 said:
Guilty Gear is many things to many different people. Every person can probably found a character they would like to play, ignoring aesthetics.

Mike Z often says he draws inspiration for SkullGirls from MvC2 and GG. But when I play SkullGirls, all I see is MvC2.

But when I play ST, I see a lot of what I love about GG also in ST.

ArcSys picked the Xrd roster to maximize playstyle variety, and I feel they succeeded admirably in the task.

Been thinking about dropping games. I want to play them all more or less but there's just no time, and I can be sucktastic at a bunch or try to actually improve at 1-2 plus maybe a couple low maintenance extras. Maybe I'll achieve active mediocrity one day, who knows. Plan is probably sticking with KOF and GG mainly and developing ST/3S as the extra stuff.

alstein · Dec 1, 2014

Coffeeling said:
ArcSys picked the Xrd roster to maximize playstyle variety, and I feel they succeeded admirably in the task.

Been thinking about dropping games. I want to play them all more or less but there's just no time, and I can be sucktastic at a bunch or try to actually improve at 1-2 plus maybe a couple low maintenance extras. Maybe I'll achieve active mediocrity one day, who knows. Plan is probably sticking with KOF and GG mainly and developing ST/3S as the extra stuff.

Given that a great new version of KOF comes out at the end of next week, it's a good time to get into KOF, at least if you have a PC (Assuming the netcode isn't worse than XIII, which I doubt)

Yes, I'll pimp this game so hard people will think I'm Mr.Big or something (ironic because the guy who used that as his name on Kaillera taught me a lot back in the day)

Coffeeling · Dec 1, 2014

alstein said:
Given that a great new version of KOF comes out at the end of next week, it's a good time to get into KOF, at least if you have a PC (Assuming the netcode isn't worse than XIII, which I doubt)

Yes, I'll pimp this game so hard people will think I'm Mr.Big or something (ironic because the guy who used that as his name on Kaillera taught me a lot back in the day)

Was talking about 13 which I've been addicted to since Steam Edition released, not 98

I guess I shouldn't call 13 KOF, some people will refuse to understand Kappa

WarRock · Dec 1, 2014

But, who doesn't prefer AC to #R? AC gave a way better HS counter to Baiken =D

Coffeeling · Dec 1, 2014

WarRock said:
But, who doesn't prefer AC to #R? AC gave a way better HS counter to Baiken =D

At least as far as +R goes: The Eddie players?

casperOne · Dec 1, 2014

Karsticles said:
casperOne, do you think the shield button in Smash is unintuitive?

So, I'm going to get skewered for this, but I've never, ever played Smash. It's not due to any personal feelings against the game, just I didn't have an N64 (SSB) or Game Cube (Melee). When Brawl came out, I had a PS2 and was pretty happy with it and didn't see the need for another system. A Wii joined my family when my relationship status changed but I really interested in the games that were suited for the motion sensors; not that Brawl was one of them, but it's kind of all I saw about the platform at the time. I do regret never playing TvC (except for one time when it was at Evo and someone from the community was kind enough to give me a primer).

Now, with my current life status, there's no time (or space) for a Wii-U. I know I could play 4 on 3DS, but I feel it would be a sub-par experience; if I play, I want to compete (and I can't do that on the subway, mind you).

That said, I can't answer your question for lack of any knowledge on the subject.

irfaanator said:
nice write up casper

Clockw0rk said:
also nice writeup casper!

Thank you! Glad it didn't bore you guys to death. It was much more fun than expected, and found that it felt natural to elaborate once I started putting words on the page.

Thomasorus · Dec 1, 2014

Why is everyone suddently talking about MikeZ? Did I miss something?

Also about Xrd and the way the mechanics works now, it has pros and cons in my opinion. Pros is that the cancel system goes from a predictive thing to a reactive thing. You don't FRC anymore while planning what you're doing next (if you didn't miss the timing), you are now acting more in real time as the slowdown helps you taking notice of what's going on adn then, you react. It's a good thing for most people I suppose.

Cons is having the right to cancel almost anything for 25% bar feel kinda stupid for me in the same way the Focus feels stupid in SF4. If you commit yourself to something, assume it damn. Don't give me cancels that permits me to clean my mistakes or an armor move that gives me the right to go through someone else action like it didn't exist. It's like having a game based on ONE basic rule and give anyone a tool to break this rule.

I understand why this kind of mechanics exists: the player will be less punished for doing shit, will lose less, his ego will be preserved and blablabla he'll continue to play and be happy. That's good logic from social/mental point of view but I hate it. I like when games are being based on rules and you respect the rules.

WarRock · Dec 1, 2014

Coffeeling said:
At least as far as +R goes: The Eddie players?

But who cares about Testament and Eddie/Zato players?

Also I never played +R )=

casperOne said:
So, I'm going to get skewered for this, but I've never, ever played Smash. It's not due to any personal feelings against the game, just I didn't have an N64 (SSB) or Game Cube (Melee).

I played both 64 and Brawl for the first time this year. Took me a while to see the appeal, and mostly "got it" in 1v1 situations or in not-that-crazy stages (there is a 8bit one in Brawl which is pure evil).

Which is weird, since I fucking love Power Stone 2 with all the craziness and multiple people at the same time. Guess it has to do with movement options (most "advanced" thing I did in Smash was rolling) and physics.

JoeInky · Dec 1, 2014

I recorded some of my Ganondorf shenanigans from last night in FG, not really anything you'd ever see good players do but I thought some of it was funny/cool.

4 hits is all it takes, a fresh FSmash from Ganon kills really early as long as you can actually hit it, has deceptively long range as well due to the fact that he steps forward.

God knows how long this would have gone on for if I didn't fuck up and walk too far away on the last one.

I like to think the Link player just gave up completely after that set of tech chases, could just have been lag though.

I still haven't played a proper game of 2v2 yet in Smash 4, the fact that FG uses time and friendly fire off is such a crock of shit. It's not as laggy as it was in the 3DS but if the rules aren't any good then what's the point.

alstein · Dec 1, 2014

Thomasorus said:
I understand why this kind of mechanics exists: the player will be less punished for doing shit, will lose less, his ego will be preserved and blablabla he'll continue to play and be happy. That's good logic from social/mental point of view but I hate it. I like when games are being based on rules and you respect the rules.

It never ends up working that way in reality. Often such tools have the opposite impact. Look at FADC.

Seyavesh · Dec 1, 2014

WarRock said:
But, who doesn't prefer AC to #R? AC gave a way better HS counter to Baiken =D

pshaw, just let me pick EX baiken and then i can do that whenever i want

alongside a whole bunch of other things, including 3x tatami

ex baiken foreverrrrr

Kimosabae · Dec 1, 2014

Clockw0rk said:
What are some of the biggest differences between high and low level play in the new Smash (or just Smash in general)? What separates a top Smash player from a random person who knows how to play but not at a competitive level?

also nice writeup casper!

In general? Being able to keep players from coming back to the stage (edge guarding) and excelling at ground okizeme (punishing ground rolls and tech rolls). In the new game, those things are emphasized more because you can't punish reads as hard, nor space yourself as precisely as a game like Melee. And of course, knowing matchups. Just like any other fighting game. The competitive fundamentals, really. Good reads (Oki and Edge game) and matchup knowledge.

Part of the reason why I feel Heavy Gravity works better for this game is due to the fact that it allows you to put your opponent on their back more, allowing for greater oki potential not just on the ground, but on platforms. The momentum is important, because edge guarding is even more nerfed at this point, than Brawl's edge guarding was.

*edit*

Actually, someone may need to correct me on that last part, because I've been playing the game on Heavy Gravity settings, so that may be partly why EGing seems more difficult.

sixteen-bit · Dec 1, 2014

Yesterday I had a dream that Capcom and Platinum made up and released Platinum X Clover X Capcom fighting game.

I usually never remember my dreams lol

Sayad · Dec 1, 2014

Thomasorus said:
I understand why this kind of mechanics exists: the player will be less punished for doing shit, will lose less, his ego will be preserved and blablabla he'll continue to play and be happy. That's good logic from social/mental point of view but I hate it. I like when games are being based on rules and you respect the rules.

The mechanic isn't essentially there to help beginners as much as it's just a mechanic that beginners/casuals can use too. Parry/FRC take an essential part of the game away from those players, while in Focus/YRC/PRC case anyone aware of the control can use them, it takes the illusion of losing to something you can't use away and make the "getting better" process way less painful. Not to mention it's one more fun mechanics for those players.

/someone who didn't know about FRC until he went back to older GG games with a competitive mindset after Xrd announcement

DryEyeRelief · Dec 1, 2014

Pepeday vs Pro Fluke

Sayad · Dec 1, 2014

sixteen-bit said:
Yesterday I had a dream that Capcom and Platinum made up and released Platinum X Clover X Capcom fighting game.

I usually never remember my dreams lol

You mean Capcom x Sega x Nintendo x Konami, right? ;p

IntelliHeath · Dec 1, 2014

Hot Coldman said:
When was the last good guest character anyway

Sonic and Pac Man? I'm not sure tho since I heard that they can be frustrating to fight against.

Thomasorus · Dec 1, 2014

Sayad said:
The mechanic isn't essentially there to help beginners as much as it's just a mechanic that beginners/casuals can use too. Parry/FRC take an essential part of the game away from those players, while in Focus/YRC/PRC case anyone aware of the control can use them, it takes the illusion of losing to something you can't use away and make the "getting better" process way less painful. Not to mention it's one more fun mechanics for those players.

/someone who didn't know about FRC until he went back to older GG games with a competitive mindset after Xrd announcement

Note I didn't say I prefered Third Strike parry. ^^

Huw_Dawson · Dec 1, 2014

DryEyeRelief said:
Pepeday vs Pro Fluke

Going to watch this now.

Japan's best Fuerte versus Europe's best Fuerte: battle of the complete nonsense.

Coffeeling · Dec 1, 2014

Huw_Dawson said:
Going to watch this now.

Japan's best Fuerte versus Europe's best Fuerte: battle of the complete nonsense.

Speaking of profluke, it was beautiful how Ryan had him completely locked down <3
#DeleteTheElf

onionfrog · Dec 1, 2014

Nice interview CasperOne!

QisTopTier · Dec 1, 2014

40 mins of Bedman being Bedman

Rhapsody · Dec 1, 2014

Kimosabae said:
In general? Being able to keep players from coming back to the stage (edge guarding) and excelling at ground okizeme (punishing ground rolls and tech rolls). In the new game, those things are emphasized more because you can't punish reads as hard, nor space yourself as precisely as a game like Melee. And of course, knowing matchups. Just like any other fighting game. The competitive fundamentals, really. Good reads (Oki and Edge game) and matchup knowledge.

This is what's bugging me right now with Captain Falcon. That dash goes so far that you're not really able shield until way late while being limited to certain options. Regardless, besides not being able to keep run momentum on jumps, I still find him the closest I can get to some sort of Melee character. Unfortunately, this is causing some weird muscle memory to kick in training mode by trying to moonwalk or dash dance.

Marz · Dec 1, 2014

Rhapsody said:
This is what's bugging me right now with Captain Falcon. That dash goes so far that you're not really able shield until way late while being limited to certain options. Regardless, besides not being able to keep run momentum on jumps, I still find him the closest I can get to some sort of Melee character. Unfortunately, this is causing some weird muscle memory to kick in training mode by trying to moonwalk or dash dance.

Sheik is pretty melee like imo

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