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[BadWolf]

60 fps footage of sf stage demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYC3IKFxqpw

Beautiful.

 

[Silky]

Yeah, SF5 looks hot.

 

[alstein]

Aris point about TTT2 is that it is not a good competitive game, not that it isn't competitive. He bases this opinion from watching american tournaments and seeing poor play, even from our best players who played previous installments at a very high level with few errors.

The amount of things you need to be aware of in a tense tournament situation is just too much in his opinion. You have your two characters who could have completely different play styles and punishment options, two opponents who have different things you have to remember how to punish, long combos with insane wall carry that need pinpoint optimization on the fly to maximize damage. After "playing Tekken" and getting rewarded with a launcher, your mind has to automatically go into "ok I launched them, are they on straight axis, or slight to the left or right? Can this combo kill? How far away from the wall am I? Do I need to tag out? Do I expect them to tag out when I'm done? Tag Crash or raw tag?" Doesn't even get into the wall situation variables yet!

Mr Naps loves this shit because he's a maniac. If Tekken could be made around his desires, he'd want TTT3 with 100 characters (he has said this). He is the ultimate encyclopedia of the game and that's why he's our best player. Aris is a "keep it simple, stupid" style of player that won't do 100% optimized combos in tournament if the execution is too difficult or has too many variables in the outcome. TTT2 can't be played like that at high levels.

The point about T7 being too similar to TR, Naps was saying that the loctest he played was Tekken Revolution movesets copy pasted into T7 with minor refinements. He admitted the new trailer had newer moves and move properties you would expect from a new Tekken. At high levels it will probably still feel like a T6 style of game, but Namco is making these adjustments for the mid and low level players.

I gotta agree with Aris. VF requires a lot of work, but it wasn't so hard that you couldn't pick it up from scratch. Tekken has the same depth as VF- it's got less depth in its throw game, but more in other areas to make up for it.
That said, Tekken requires a lot more work- and much of it is what I'd call busywork- things that take a lot of time to get good at on a technical level, that don't really require a lot of strategic.

I'd disagree that Tekken isn't a good competitive game- I think it is. I think the problem is, for folks who aren't massively invested in Tekken already, it's not a good competitive game for them, because they can get the same reward with games that require a lot less work, and a lot less frustrating work.

That said, from what I've seen of Tekken 7, this problem isn't being addressed at the level needed. I fully expect Tekken 7 to not do all that well competitively, though if it goes PC/PS4 I expect it to sell well.

Then again, I've seen Aris play VF- while his style of play suits it better because VF has harder rules and fewer exceptions, he got pretty damn frustrated (but VF isn't a setplay game at all minus meaty situations)

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Aris point about TTT2 is that it is not a good competitive game, not that it isn't competitive. He bases this opinion from watching american tournaments and seeing poor play, even from our best players who played previous installments at a very high level with few errors.

The amount of things you need to be aware of in a tense tournament situation is just too much in his opinion. You have your two characters who could have completely different play styles and punishment options, two opponents who have different things you have to remember how to punish, long combos with insane wall carry that need pinpoint optimization on the fly to maximize damage. After "playing Tekken" and getting rewarded with a launcher, your mind has to automatically go into "ok I launched them, are they on straight axis, or slight to the left or right? Can this combo kill? How far away from the wall am I? Do I need to tag out? Do I expect them to tag out when I'm done? Tag Crash or raw tag?" Doesn't even get into the wall situation variables yet!

Mr Naps loves this shit because he's a maniac. If Tekken could be made around his desires, he'd want TTT3 with 100 characters (he has said this). He is the ultimate encyclopedia of the game and that's why he's our best player. Aris is a "keep it simple, stupid" style of player that won't do 100% optimized combos in tournament if the execution is too difficult or has too many variables in the outcome. TTT2 can't be played like that at high levels.

The point about T7 being too similar to TR, Naps was saying that the loctest he played was Tekken Revolution movesets copy pasted into T7 with minor refinements. He admitted the new trailer had newer moves and move properties you would expect from a new Tekken. At high levels it will probably still feel like a T6 style of game, but Namco is making these adjustments for the mid and low level players.

I don't agree with Aris. I think it is a good competitive game. From what you just listed, he thinks there is too much to think about (or stuff he doesn't like to think about) and that makes it not good competitively? Or there is to much new stuff to learn? And basing it on American players only? nada, haha. Maybe it's not good for him, but I think it's good.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Karsticles]

Did anyone end up doing a gameshare for the PS3 version of GG Xrd? I'm at a point where I just have to accept that I'm not going to have a PS4 stick due to supply issues until January, and I would really like to play this game without having to double dip on the PS3 version at full price.

 

[kirblar]

I don't agree with Aris. I think it is a good competitive game. From what you just listed, he thinks there is too much to think about (or stuff he doesn't like to think about) and that makes it not good competitively? Or there is to much new stuff to learn? And basing it on American players only? nada, haha. Maybe it's not good for him, but I think it's good.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

There were similar criticisms of the vectoring system in Smash 4 that got removed. Too many options to try and calculate in your head in the spur of the moment.

 

[SloaneRisette]

Did anyone end up doing a gameshare for the PS3 version of GG Xrd? I'm at a point where I just have to accept that I'm not going to have a PS4 stick due to supply issues until January, and I would really like to play this game without having to double dip on the PS3 version at full price.

Could probably ask Lemstar

 

[casperOne]

Casper I really enjoyed the OFL work you did during the Capcom Cup but I though the infos where too small on screen. Since it often happened while players where fighting, I didn't notice all this infos and was disapointed when I realised it. Your work needs to be better seen!

Thanks, it's definitely feedback I'm going to send to the production crew. Also, as you know, Haunts was in here a few days ago so he might have seen that.

I also think they need to up the scroll speed a little.

Thanks again for enjoying the work, as always, hoping you'll see lots more very soon.

Beautiful.

It really is. Silky smooth.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

There were similar criticisms of the vectoring system in Smash 4 that got removed. Too many options to try and calculate in your head in the spur of the moment.

I don't know what that is, I'll google it. But having to readjust axis and what not for combos doesn't seem that bad to me in tekken (or SC), or thinking will this combo kill, will it wall carry, should I drop it/reset, will they tag. IDK, I like variables.

 

[SloaneRisette]

Thanks, it's definitely feedback I'm going to send to the production crew. Also, as you know, Haunts was in here a few days ago so he might have seen that.

I also think they need to up the scroll speed a little.

Thanks again for enjoying the work, as always, hoping you'll see lots more very soon.



It really is. Silky smooth.

Oh hey, something I thought of but forgot to tell you. I know you do a lot of stats being how people fare against the people they're playing at prior tournaments, ever thought about looking at stats of how a person does with that particular character in Top 8 if they're choosing a character they don't normally choose? Something like with Ryan Hart picking Ryu

Just a thought that I was curious on, as I told you before, love the stats work you do always.

 

[Laconic]

I just want the new Tekken to be robust with styles of play.

Bound-centric characters, Launch-centric characters, Crush-centric, Movement-centric, Grapple-centric, etc. et al, and all manner of various mixes and permutations in between.

I really liked what they tried to do with T6.

All I want is a tad a of refinement, towards the above, and it shall be the perfect Tekken, to me.

 

[casperOne]

Oh hey, something I thought of but forgot to tell you. I know you do a lot of stats being how people fare against the people they're playing at prior tournaments, ever thought about looking at stats of how a person does with that particular character in Top 8 if they're choosing a character they don't normally choose? Something like with Ryan Hart picking Ryu

Just a thought that I was curious on, as I told you before, love the stats work you do always.

Something I want to do? Absolutely. But no one is accurately tracking character usage in tournaments.

Hopefully, though, that will change as the stats are used more.

 

[Rhapsody]

Yeah, SF5 looks hot.

That's kind of an amazing Santa'd avatar lol

 

[Kimosabae]

I just think a lot of players - older ones in particular - are starting to realize that mechanical complexity doesn't equate to a valuable depth. The valued depth comes from the meta, not a convoluted sea of mechanistic variables.

I think a lot of the games we appreciated when we were younger because we assumed they were mechanically complex were actually much simpler upon reflection.

 

[Shouta]

I agree with Aris. I'm all for more variables but ones where you can't reliably predict what the interaction will turn out like to some extent gets in the way of making it a good competitive game.

 

[fader]

I just think a lot of players - older ones in particular - are starting to realize that mechanical complexity doesn't equate to a valuable depth. The valued depth comes from the meta, not a convoluted sea of mechanistic variables.

I think a lot of the games we appreciated when we were younger because we assumed they were mechanically complex were actually much simpler upon reflection.

so why don't people play VF? huh? huh? huh?

 

[Silky]

That's kind of an amazing Santa'd avatar lol

A good friend of mine did the shop for me.

 

[Shouta]

so why don't people play VF? huh? huh? huh?

You must have a career, family, and a savings to play VF. Not just a job.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I agree with Aris. I'm all for more variables but ones where you can't reliably predict what the interaction will turn out like to some extent gets in the way of making it a good competitive game.

Final destination, no items.

 

[Kimosabae]

It's an admittedly lazy hypothesis though.

so why don't people play VF? huh? huh? huh?

I said simple not boring kappa

 

[oneida]

VF roolz

 

[Shouta]

Final destination, no items.

I actually like items in Smash if they aren't overpowered. It's random but it's the one kind of random that I think actually adds something to the gameplay rather than muck it up.

 

[DunpealD]

You must have a career, family, and a savings to play VF. Not just a job.

You forgot wizard.

 

[fader]

It's an admittedly lazy hypothesis though.



I said simple not boring kappa

It's fun! it's like an instense game of rock paper scissors....... With fist!

Spoiler

and sometimes kicks

 

[ViewtifulJC]

You forgot wizard.

so they can be invisible?

 

[xezuru]

I actually like items in Smash if they aren't overpowered. It's random but it's the one kind of random that I think actually adds something to the gameplay rather than muck it up.

Maximum Bumpers for Evo, Mr Wizard pls.

 

[soakrates]

so why don't people play VF? huh? huh? huh?

VF5FS did have a pretty good run, all things considered. I'm not holding out hope for a third Sega Cup, but the two that were held were both great.

 

[Silky]

so they can be invisible?

That's a classic and I still die everytime

 

[kirblar]

Stripping down excess complexity that doesn't actually add anything useful is a push a lot of big companies (Blizzard, WotC) have been doing with their game design recently, and its definitely a good thing.

 

[Karsticles]

so they can be invisible?

Tekken needs to be updated to people in business suits.

 

[CountBlack]

Tekken needs to be updated to people in business suits.

for some reason I feel clowns are still relevant tbh

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

for some reason I feel clowns are still relevant tbh

Clowns in business suits then?

 

[DunpealD]

Tekken needs to be updated to people in business suits.

You mean those clowns need to have business suits shopped in.

EDIT: beaten orz

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Tekken needs to be updated to people in business suits.

They're already wearing vests and ties. The juggling is key to the humor as well.

 

[Laconic]

Tekken needs to be updated to people in business suits.

One of them needs to be juggling, the other one needs to be throwing something onto the ground with such force, you see the blurs of it bouncing back up.

 

[fader]

I just realized something. Poison has the peacock outfit with the green feathers... But Female peacocks do not have green feathers only the male ones does. Did Capcom finally confirm Poison to be a male at birth with this DLC?

 

[CountBlack]

I just realized something. Poison has the peacock outfit with the green feathers... But Female peacocks do not have green feathers only the male ones does. Did Capcom finally confirm Poison to be a male at birth with this DLC?

her fwd. throw does 150 damage


Capcom knows what they're doing breh

 

[Skab]

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I just realized something. Poison has the peacock outfit with the green feathers... But Female peacocks do not have green feathers only the male ones does. Did Capcom finally confirm Poison to be a male at birth with this DLC?

vagina health tax brehs

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

raised by wolves, each and every one of them

 

[Dlent]

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

We doing this again?

 

[Terareflection]

I just want the new Tekken to be robust with styles of play.

Bound-centric characters, Launch-centric characters, Crush-centric, Movement-centric, Grapple-centric, etc. et al, and all manner of various mixes and permutations in between.

I really liked what they tried to do with T6.

All I want is a tad a of refinement, towards the above, and it shall be the perfect Tekken, to me.

That's actually what I want the most out of the new Tekken, as well. But I don't feel like it going to happen. Chloe and Katarina seem pretty derivative movelist-wise.

 

[Skab]

We doing this again?

AWFUL. HUMAN. BEINGS.

 

[CountBlack]

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

Kimo agrees with you

 

[mbpm1]

Sometimes when I see they switched

Spoiler

I exit

Don't tell anyone

 

[Nyoro SF]

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

Scumbags through and through!

 

[DunpealD]

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

What about people who kick you after winning once or leave after losing?

 

[fader]

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

that's a slap in the face and is a completely rude arcade etiquette.

 

[kirblar]

So Omega has a 2f buffer? I definitely expect that to show up in SF5.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

People who switch after winning when giving you the runback online are awful human beings.

This is especially bad when they win unconvincingly.

 

[fader]

This is especially bad when they win unconvincingly.

my friend does this in street fighter all the time.. it's so rude.