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[.la1n]

Was this posted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6-4EkT4Flc

What the heck is this glitch?
Ibuki is anime! ^^

Ibuki also happens to be the greatest fighting game character of all time.

On the subject of western fighting game developers and modeling female fighters, I actually thought DH did a pretty good job with KI. Orchid in particular actually looks like she could be a fighter.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Ibuki also happens to be the greatest fighting game character of all time.

On the subject of western fighting game developers and modeling female fighters, I actually thought DH did a pretty good job with KI. Orchid in particular actually looks like she could be a fighter.

You think so? Sadira and Orchid have the physique of dancers. I don't see them as MMA fighters or boxers or anything like that.

 

[Busaiku]

Man, the old The King of Fighters games look so terrible.
I wonder what motivated them to go all out with The King of Fighters XII/XIII.

 

[EarlyEarly]

Are people making the change to Chun for Ultra? Uryo and now Sako are playing her.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Are people making the change to Chun for Ultra? Uryo and now Sako are playing her.

I always had a pocket Chun. If she's good I could see myself naturally playing as her more.

 

[.la1n]

You think so? Sadira and Orchid have the physique of dancers. I don't see them as MMA fighters or boxers or anything like that.

Pretty much only Orchid looks like she could be a fighter to me. Sadira doesn't really stand out other than I thought the facial modeling of the character is better than anything NR has been able to do thus far.

I used to play Chun a lot during the ST days and in Alpha. Might give her another shot once Ultra comes out.

 

[Retro_]

exactly. you know right away that guile is an ass-kicking american. it makes sense for him to go up against a martial artist or a big-ass russian, who are equally convincing and coherent. there aren't any school girls or anything in the mix, no one is wearing a leather jacket or sunglasses for no reason. I liked abel the most out of the SF newcomers. yeah, he's the most vanilla and his backstory sucks, but he would fit right into SF2, with el fuerte in close second (as much as I hate his gameplay lol).

even someone zanier like Vega has really tight design. the purple and gold coloring reflect his nobility and the claw and mask convey his twisted mentality. the ninja shit is out there but still works in the context of his stage and his bullfighting.

I think you're giving the character design in SF2 way too much credit.

Like World Heroes and Fatal Fury and Samurai Shodown and every other FG of that era it was just a reflection of anime tropes at the time. Just like how modern games are heavily based on modern anime tropes.

I don't think the character designs were deliberately more simple. It's just that that was the style that was popular back then, and probably the limitations of the tech somewhat.

Man, the old The King of Fighters games look so terrible.
I wonder what motivated them to go all out with The King of Fighters XII/XIII.

HD consoles and not wanting to do the same thing Capcom was doing with SF4 I'd imagine

 

[kirblar]

SF2's design is based mostly off tropes, but they're very broad ones and are recognizable no matter what your background is because they're not insular. (Like Anime ones.) They avoid crossing the line into parody, and still hold up because of it.

 

[Retro_]

I don't think you could get away with putting caricatures of different cultures, fighting styles and famous people in your game today, so I think there's a reason for that.

 

[Kimosabae]

SF2's design is based mostly off tropes, but they're very broad ones and are recognizable no matter what your background is because they're not insular. (Like Anime ones.) They avoid crossing the line into parody, and still hold up because of it.

I think you're giving the character design in SF2 way too much credit.

Like World Heroes and Fatal Fury and Samurai Shodown and every other FG of that era it was just a reflection of anime tropes at the time. Just like how modern games are heavily based on modern anime tropes.

I don't think the character designs were deliberately more simple. It's just that that was the style that was popular back then, and probably the limitations of the tech somewhat.

.

 

[alstein]

Man, the old The King of Fighters games look so terrible.
I wonder what motivated them to go all out with The King of Fighters XII/XIII.

Survival. They had to shoot their load, because failure meant no more KOF after the bomb KOFXII was.

SNK played it super-safe in design for KOFXIII, one reason I'm not the fan of it as I am some older KOFs.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think you could get away with putting caricatures of different cultures, fighting styles and famous people in your game today, so I think there's a reason for that.

They're not caricatures. They're homages. (See: El Fuerte) If they were caricatures it wouldn't hold up.

 

[Jazz-ism]

Survival. They had to shoot their load, because failure meant no more KOF after the bomb KOFXII was.

SNK played it super-safe in design for KOFXIII, one reason I'm not the fan of it as I am some older KOFs.

i feel you on this because i prefer 98um and 2k2 myself, but for what it is kof xiii is a good game. its just what snk needed at the right time to give the series a modern day presence and to be honest, i hope the next title is 13 UM.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

I don't think you could get away with putting caricatures of different cultures, fighting styles and famous people in your game today, so I think there's a reason for that.

How would you compare SF's cultural caricatures to how say, Tekken does world warriors? Or Juri Han, who was strictly a product of 2009 design sensibilities?

 

[Busaiku]

Survival. They had to shoot their load, because failure meant no more KOF after the bomb KOFXII was.

SNK played it super-safe in design for KOFXIII, one reason I'm not the fan of it as I am some older KOFs.

The King of Fighters XII/XIII are probably their most expensive games.
It definitely wasn't super-safe, and it actually hurt them overall.

 

[LordJim]

i feel you on this because i prefer 98um and 2k2 myself, but for what it is kof xiii is a good game. its just what snk needed at the right time to give the series a modern day presence and to be honest, i hope the next title is 13 UM.

It's a shame because I believe 2002 UM is one of their best 2d fighter products (my 2nd favorite being last blade series). I wish more people had a chance to properly play it

 

[Silky]

KOFXIII was safe? That shit was expensive as fuck, especially considering they had blown a lot of their money of SamSho Sen.

As for the next KOF....it's gotta be a dream match. XIV has to be a dream match. Tradition, etc.

It's a shame because I believe 2002 UM is one of their best 2d fighter products (my 2nd favorite being last blade series). I wish more people had a chance to properly play it

UM is on 360. Along with a lot of other SNK fighters that for some reason didn't make the jump to Sony's console.

Hell, The last Blade is on a Nintendo console, of all things. SNK just releases a lot of their older older stuff on PSN

 

[Beckx]

Hell, The last Blade is on a Nintendo console, of all things. SNK just releases a lot of their older older stuff on PSN

If only it was VGA compatible on Dreamcast.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Wasn't the DC port bad? I recall something about laggy audio.

 

[Retro_]

They're not caricatures. They're homages. (See: El Fuerte)

No they're caricatures.

Homage is paying respect. Caricatures are exaggerations for comedic effect.

Dhalsim is in no way paying respect to Indian culture. He's a caricature of it. Yoga comes from India and people who do yoga are really flexible so our Indian fighter should be able to throw his limbs across screen because he does Yoga.

Same with T.Hawk, same with Fuerte same with even Zangief

I wouldn't label it racist or malicious. but I mean let's call it what it is.

How would you compare SF's cultural caricatures to how say, Tekken does world warriors? Or Juri Han, who was strictly a product of 2009 design sensibilities?

I don't know much about tekken so I don't really have an opinion. Tekken from a glance though always seemed more about the fighting styles than characters though.

Juri I see as an example that the whole simpler is better line of thinking for why anime games aren't popular is bullshit. She's the most popular newcomer by far and is now one of the most popular characters in the franchise.

and like you said she is modern anime as fuuuuuuuuuuuck. Anime games aren't unpopular because they're anime, Street Fighter is popular because it's fucking Street Fighter. It has 30 years of brand recognition and it's the game that the oldest and most experienced players grew up with. New franchises just can't compete with that.

 

[Aquashark]

caricatures or not, they're a lot more of iconic than three quarters of the KOF cast that can be described as fancy cocktail party goers ^__^

not that it's something inherently wrong with KOF designs, but they take time to grow on you whereas SF characters are instantly recognizable and likeable (for the most part).

 

[Beckx]

Wasn't the DC port bad? I recall something about laggy audio.

Don't know. It's just an easy way to have it playable on my preferred setup. But if the audio lags I'm not missing anything.

I do have a modded TvC stick, might finally cave and grab a few of the gems on VC before they're pulled.

 

[Curry-Hakase]

How I see it is
SF = Racial Stereotypes: The Game
GG/BB = Anime Tropes: The Game (90s/00s edition)
KoF = Japanese Street Fashion: The Game

People always rag on BB for having shit like Platinum but always give GG a pass even when Bridget's a thing?

 

[Beckx]

Via SmashGAF, an update on how Rosalina will play.

------

I'd play Japanese Street Fashion: the Game. That reminds me I need to buy TWEWY.

 

[Deckard Cain]

No they're caricatures.

Homage is paying respect. Caricatures are exaggerations for comedic effect.

Dhalsim is in no way paying respect to Indian culture. He's a caricature of it. Yoga comes from India and people who do yoga are really flexible so our Indian fighter should be able to throw his limbs across screen because he does Yoga.

Juri I see as an example that the whole simpler is better line of thinking for why anime games aren't popular is bullshit. She's the most popular Ponewcomer by far and is now one of the most popular characters in the franchise.

and like you said she is modern anime as fuuuuuuuuuuuck. Anime games aren't unpopular because they're anime, Street Fighter is popular because it's fucking Street Fighter. It has 30 years of brand recognition and it's the game that the oldest and most experienced players grew up with. New franchises just can't compete with that

This guy gets it.

QUOTE]

 

[Silky]

Wow so Rosalina is pretty much Devo/D'bo

 

[Deckard Cain]

BTW Mobile GAF sucks.

 

[Shito]

This guy gets it.

This post was so good that even Deckard Cain agrees to it: damn well done Retro_!

 

[Retro_]

Now I can die with no regrets

 

[Busaiku]

Fei Long and Hugo are homages.

 

[Retro_]

Fei Long and Alex are homages.

Mike Bison tho...

 

[Beckx]

The fine line between homage and "let's put this guy into our game in a way less likely to generate a lawsuit than the last guy."

 

[Deckard Cain]

Fei Long and Hugo are homages.

Hugo is not a homage, Fei Long is a Bruce Lee caricature just like how Mike Bison is a Tyson one. Maybe you don't understand what a caricature is.

 

[Infinite]

Fei Long and Hugo are homages.

Fei-long is a caricature of Bruce lee

 

[MrDaravon]

Are people making the change to Chun for Ultra? Uryo and now Sako are playing her.

Chun looks potentially nuts in Ultra, wouldn't surprise me. IIRC some top players played her some in vanilla (want to say Ricky O, PR Rog, some others).

I only play super casually off and on, but since Vanilla I've mostly played Chun and Ken. I look forward to being called a tier whore online.

 

[Retro_]

Alex and Hugo's special opening is definitely a homage

I'd say Andore in Final Fight, whom Hugo is based off of is a caricature though in the same way Bison is.

but I don't really think this is a productive line of discussion because I don't really think SF's use of caricatures is offensive personally. It seems like some people are treating it like a dirty word with trying to find examples in the games of things that aren't caricatures.

I just don't think it'd fly in an original game today, so it seems weird to praise SF's use of caricatures over the use of anime tropes in modern games like it was a deliberate design choice open to them both. The games are just products of different times simple as that.

 

[Infinite]

Alex and Hugo's special opening is definitely a homage

I'd say Andore in Final Fight, whom Hugo is based off of is a caricature though in the same way Bison is.

but I don't really think this is a productive line of discussion because I don't really think SF's use of caricatures is offensive personally.

Well caricatures aren't inherently offensive and yes the sf series for the most part does not use offensive caricatures

 

[Retro_]

Yeah I edited my post a bit to elaborate

 

[sixteen-bit]

Chun looks potentially nuts in Ultra, wouldn't surprise me. IIRC some top players played her some in vanilla (want to say Ricky O, PR Rog, some others).

I only play super casually off and on, but since Vanilla I've mostly played Chun and Ken. I look forward to being called a tier whore online.

Lol imagine if Shizza comes out of the woodwork again

 

[sf2fanatic]

... i dont know if that's a good idea, put the volume down before you play these videos.

I'll put on the headphones when viewing it. And thanks for the heads up on the volume.

 

[Kimosabae]

Christ people a caricature can be an homage. They're not mutually exclusive. Caricature in-and-of-itself does not imply disregard or regard. Just exaggeration.

 

[SousedLouse]

Lol imagine if Shizza comes out of the woodwork again

It would take a miracle to bring that guy out of retirement - like Akuma or Rufus being beaten down to mid-tier with the Nerf Stick.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Fei Long and Hugo are homages.

I read this as homies.

I need sleep.

 

[Village]

Alex and Hugo's special opening is definitely a homage

I'd say Andore in Final Fight, whom Hugo is based off of is a caricature though in the same way Bison is.

but I don't really think this is a productive line of discussion because I don't really think SF's use of caricatures is offensive personally. It seems like some people are treating it like a dirty word with trying to find examples in the games of things that aren't caricatures.

I just don't think it'd fly in an original game today, so it seems weird to praise SF's use of caricatures over the use of anime tropes in modern games like it was a deliberate design choice open to them both. The games are just products of different times simple as that.

Interesting assessment, I cannot say personally I don't find them offensive. But I will say its gotten better over time, though I wish Elena would put clothes on. And 4, brought me viper... so i am pleased for the momento .

To comment on your previous post, so a hypethetical air-dash game with all the anime just came out. Its more popular than street fighter, what did it do to do that?

 

[Silky]

To comment on your previous post, so a hypethetical air-dash game with all the anime just came out. Its more popular than street fighter, what did it do to do that?

It was called Guilty Gear

 

[Deckard Cain]

Christ people a caricature can be an homage. They're not mutually exclusive. Caricature does not imply disregard or regard. Just exaggeration.

Kind of but not really. A homage is paying respect, over exaggerating sterotypes is not very respectful. I will agree that it is possible though for a caricature to be a homage if done the right way. Like how Law is a homage and a caricature of Bruce Lee.

 

[Dahbomb]

There really isn't any difference between Law and Fei Long.

 

[Silky]

There really isn't any difference between Law and Fei Long.

Law is a much more researched homage to Bruce Lee than Fei Long is. It's insane how accurate they got Lee down in Tekken. Whereas Fei Long has like two moves that resemble Lee.

 

[Horseress]

There really isn't any difference between Law and Fei Long.

Yeah, and Fei is not an over-exagerated caricature of Bruce Lee. He does not look goofy or anything. Same with Mike Bison

 

[Infinite]

Christ people a caricature can be an homage. They're not mutually exclusive. Caricature in-and-of-itself does not imply disregard or regard. Just exaggeration.

This whole debate spawned because people were arguing that SF2 characters are homages and -not- caricatures. They aren't mutually exclusive of course but let's not fool ourselves here.

Yeah, and Fei is not an over-exagerated caricature of Bruce Lee. He does not look goofy or anything. Same with Mike Bison

Fei long is Bruce lee the movie star. His character pretty much emphasize on the characters Bruce lee portrayed in his movies and tv roles. He isn't necessarily a homage to Bruce lee the person.